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| "The rights promised to Indians were granted slowly, but technological changes were introduced, and ideas of education, modernity and the public life took root." | "The rights promised to Indians were granted slowly, but technological changes were introduced, and ideas of education, modernity and the public life took root." | ||
| This sentence misleadingly implies that ideas of education and public life were not already widely circulating in pre-colonial India. The use of the "but" and missing subject in "right promised to Indians were granted slowly" also seem like a questionable way of almost ''softening'' the exploitative reality of colonial rule on the country. I suggest changing the sentence to: "British Crown rule began in 1858, introducing ideas of ] to the nation. The British administration granted the rights it promised to Indians slowly, leading to a pioneering and influential ] and the eventual dissolution of British rule." I understand we're aiming to be "balanced" but I think it would be remiss to suggest the introduction of modernity and Industrial Revolution-sourced technology somehow |
This sentence misleadingly implies that ideas of education and public life were not already widely circulating in pre-colonial India. The use of the "but" and missing subject in "right promised to Indians were granted slowly" also seem like a questionable way of almost ''softening'' the exploitative reality of colonial rule on the country. I suggest changing the sentence to: "British Crown rule began in 1858, introducing ideas of ] to the nation. The British administration granted the rights it promised to Indians slowly, leading to a pioneering and influential ] and the eventual dissolution of British rule." I understand we're aiming to be "balanced" but I think it would be remiss to suggest the introduction of modernity and Industrial Revolution-sourced technology somehow negates the brutal ] owning to colonial negligence during this period (I am not saying that was ever the intention of whoever wrote that, but that is how it reads to me at least, especially due to the "but"). --] (]) 17:05, 27 May 2022 (UTC) | ||
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Etymology section update proposed
Suggest change from "Bharat gained increased currency from the mid-19th century as a native name for India." to "The name Bharat has been vogue since ancient times has been prominently been in use since the 18th century.
Reference - Google ngram viewer indicates the usage of the word Bharat since 18th century while older references like Bhagwad Geeta have reference to Bharat being referred to as a geographical region. Amitized (talk) 07:33, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
- Google ngrams are not reliable secondary sources. CMD (talk) 08:36, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
- From Johnson (trans), W. J., ed. (1994), The Bhagavad Gita, Oxford and New York: Oxford University Press, pp. xvii, 19, ISBN 0-19-282952-1:
The last epithet is employed in one of its most famous verses:At the core of the Mahabharata is the story of the struggle for the kingdom of Bharata (roughly northern India), the world of the original audience for the poem. (Modern India is known by the same name.) The contending parties are cousins, ... Collectively, they are known as the Pandavas, ‘descendants of Pandu’. ... (and) the Kauravas, ‘descendants of Kuru’ ...(Footnote: Kuru is in fact a common ancestor of both sets of cousins, as is (the man) Bharata, ‘(Descendant of ) Bharata’ being another common epithet.
Fowler&fowler«Talk» 10:50, 18 April 2022 (UTC)Whenever there is a falling away from the true law and an upsurge of unlawfulness, then, O Bharata, I emit myself.
- Please note also that the "Northern India" was partly that of the imagination. The descendants of the Indo-Aryan tribes who are the subjects of the Gita had no technology with which to claim, for example, Nanda Devi or Kanchenjunga for their land, or defend them (were defense needed). The land may very well have been a very circumscribed region of northern India. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 11:04, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
- From Johnson (trans), W. J., ed. (1994), The Bhagavad Gita, Oxford and New York: Oxford University Press, pp. xvii, 19, ISBN 0-19-282952-1:
References
- https://trends.google.co.in/trends/explore?date=all&geo=IN&q=bharat.
{{cite web}}: Missing or empty|title=(help)
1947, India was the jewel in the crown of the British Empire, an important military resource in a location of great geostrategic significance. But the Cold War diminished India’s importance. Because it did not play a significant role in the balance of power between the Soviet Union and the Western alliance, the superpowers often took India for granted. At most, the two sides saw India as a potential counter to the People’s Republic of China on the international chessboard-but only one of several. Sagarsaprecode (talk) 17:01, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
Economy
I believe we should change the fact that it says "India is a fast growing major energy" to "India is the fsstest growing major economy" which has been mistakenly been said in China's page even though China doesn't have the fastest growing major economy.
Thanks AtishT20 (talk) 17:37, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
Vandalsing SVG of Emblem of India.
Someone is Vandalizing Emblem_of_India.svg. Need Immediate Administrator Interference. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Swapnil1101 (talk • contribs) 11:16, 25 April 2022 (UTC)
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 29 April 2022
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Change national language from Hindi, English TO by specifying all 22 Indian National Language which is given in the Indian Constitution. Also if you see any Indian currency note, value of it would have been printed in 17 languages out of 22 Languages given in constitution. 1.186.71.46 (talk) 05:23, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
Not done: See the FAQ at the top of this page. CMD (talk) 05:30, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
Economy
I had made a recent edit however Fowler&Fowler seems to think he runs the website! I understand he is more senior than me but that doesn't give him the right to call my edits nonsense. The edit I had made was factual and not "nonsense" as he so rudely described. Please do a fact check if you don't believe me. May I suggest we keep the edit I made with the addition that India however does have an overall low GDP per Capita? Thank you :) AtishT20 (talk) 20:58, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
- Nontrivial edits should be discussed here per WP:OWN#Featured_articles and a consensus be garnered for them. A consensus can take anywhere between several days and several weeks to form. You were not just editing the article directly, but the lead, which is a distilled summary of the distilled article. You were, moreover, editing the summary of a section which another editor had volunteered to improve a week or two ago in the talk page disucssions. You were not summarizing India's complex economy, only engaging in boosterism. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 21:43, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
- I agree with F&f that the formulation being added amounted to POV boosterism. Some of the individual points (such as nominal or PPP GDP) are perhaps worth adding but they are best incorporated to blend in with the existing language (
During the same time, its nominal per capita income increased from US$64 annually to US$1,498, and its literacy rate from 16.6% to 74%. From being a comparatively destitute country in 1951, India has become a fast-growing major economy and a hub for information technology services, with an expanding middle class.
) so that they can be appreciated in the proper context. Feel free to propose the changes here. - Not currently convinced that the military size, budget or the nuclear-weapon power status is lede worthy. Btw, the discussion of the defence budget in the article body (
The official Indian defence budget for 2011 was US$36.03 billion, or 1.83% of GDP. Defence expenditure was pegged at US$70.12 billion for fiscal year 2022–23 and, increased 9.8% than previous fiscal year.
) has a jarring temporal jump and needs to be updated. The first sentence can perhaps be deleted altogether and the second sentence copy-edited though I haven't done so myself since there may be existing plans for section improvement as part of the FAR-process. Abecedare (talk) 22:59, 2 May 2022 (UTC)- Please help improve the article @Abecedare: in whatever manner, place, and time you can. Your presence and input is highly valued. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 01:36, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
- Can't promise anything due to real-life time-commitments but will try to at least help around the edges. Cheers. Abecedare (talk) 05:26, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
- Please help improve the article @Abecedare: in whatever manner, place, and time you can. Your presence and input is highly valued. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 01:36, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
- I think there needs to be more on India's current strengths and weaknesses (as in F&F's first edit summary) in the lead. There is perhaps too much history there at present. I know it's really tricky to get everything in. Johnbod (talk) 02:12, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
- I see your point about history dominating the lede, and perhaps we can think about how the fourth para can be expanded a bit to better summarize the rest of the article (not necessarily in terms of India's strengths and weaknesses although that's one possibility). On the flip side, unlike history, the rest of the article is hard to summarize in narrative form and attempts to give it more weight in the lede might just lead to listing random facts in a sea of blue-links. So, yes, tricky but worth giving some thought. Abecedare (talk) 05:26, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
- I agree with F&f that the formulation being added amounted to POV boosterism. Some of the individual points (such as nominal or PPP GDP) are perhaps worth adding but they are best incorporated to blend in with the existing language (
Fine but I don't appreciate my edits being called "nonsense" AtishT20 (talk) 15:23, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
- I apologize for using "nonsense." Fowler&fowler«Talk» 15:57, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
Paragraph 4
I propose that we talk about India's economy in terms of GDP and purchasing parity power etc. Other countries with large economies such as the USA, Japan, China, Germany, and the UK follow this pattern however India does not seem to. It would make sense for India's page to do the same. I propose that we include the edit I made. Yes India is a poor country however we should show a balance and it is important as India continues to grow. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AtishT20 (talk • contribs) 18:27, 18 May 2022 (UTC)
So what do we think? AtishT20 (talk) 21:07, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
- It is not a matter about which we can vote among ourselves. It has to do with the reliable sources, what they say, what the major international economic and social organizations say, and what indicators they employ to rate a country's socio-economic well being. We can certainly compare India to others and follow the World Bank:
. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 23:05, 23 May 2022 (UTC)"India today is a low middle-income country among 57 such countries (L-MIs). In India's last census, 22% of its citizens were found to live below the poverty line of $1.90 per day at 2011 prices in contrast to the L-MI average of 10.9% in 2018, and 0% for Germany, a high-income country. India's life expectancy at birth is 70 years in contrast to the L-MI average of 69, and the German average of 81. Its population is 1.38 billion in contrast to the total L-MI population of 3.33 billion, and Germany's population of 83 million. India's 2020 per capita income was $1,927.7 in contrast to the L-MI average of $2,217.2, and the German of $46,252.7. India's GDP is $2.66 trillion in contrast to the total L-MI of $7.38 trillion and the German of $3.85 trillion.
]- And if you wanted to add environmental and institutional indicators, you could say:
India annually uses 45% of its (renewable) freshwater resources, in contrast to the L-MI average of 18 and Germany's of 23%. Some 46% of Indians use safe sanitation services, in contrast to the L-MI average of 46% and the German of 97%. In 2020, 43% of Indians used the internet, in contrast to the L-MI average of 45% and the German of 87%. Women in India hold 14% of the seats in the national parliaments, in contrast to 21% for the L-MI and 35% for Germany.
Fowler&fowler«Talk» 00:04, 24 May 2022 (UTC)- And regionally, India has more relative poverty than any South Asian country and except for Pakistan and Nepal, India has lower income than other South Asian countries. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 00:30, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
- And if you wanted to add environmental and institutional indicators, you could say:
That's not my point. I said we can mention poverty as well. Even countries like Bangladesh talk about their position in the world based on economy even though they are poor? Is there a problem for you stating India has the 5th largest economy? AtishT20 (talk) 17:11, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 19 May 2022
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Official language no official language 27.59.89.111 (talk) 15:34, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 15:41, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
Update
The section "Modern India" says that the country "has remained a democracy with ... a largely independent press", but the figures say something else. Peter Ormond 💬 18:44, 22 May 2022 (UTC)
- Concerning - we probably need to change our choice of words. Though the descent might be a temporary blip in the grander scheme of things. TrangaBellam (talk) 18:59, 22 May 2022 (UTC)
About wrong information on official languge
Hindi is not the the official languge of India.India has no official language currently,Hindi can be considered as a state language for some of the states of India(Note:Not all states have Hindi as their state language) Mr.Tovarisch (talk) 06:26, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
- Hindi, as an official language, appears to be well cited in the article. --RegentsPark (comment) 15:16, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
Map
As i live india i can still see the disputed shaded green . Please make it dark green for Indian viewers/ users Sachin Kashyap122 (talk) 13:39, 26 May 2022 (UTC)
- Is this a rendering issue or a political one? Coloring the disputed areas dark green would not show them as disputed (which, unfortunately, they are). --RegentsPark (comment) 14:15, 26 May 2022 (UTC)
Sentence about British rule in the lead
"The rights promised to Indians were granted slowly, but technological changes were introduced, and ideas of education, modernity and the public life took root."
This sentence misleadingly implies that ideas of education and public life were not already widely circulating in pre-colonial India. The use of the "but" and missing subject in "right promised to Indians were granted slowly" also seem like a questionable way of almost softening the exploitative reality of colonial rule on the country. I suggest changing the sentence to: "British Crown rule began in 1858, introducing ideas of modernity to the nation. The British administration granted the rights it promised to Indians slowly, leading to a pioneering and influential nationalist movement and the eventual dissolution of British rule." I understand we're aiming to be "balanced" but I think it would be remiss to suggest the introduction of modernity and Industrial Revolution-sourced technology somehow negates the brutal loss of life owning to colonial negligence during this period (I am not saying that was ever the intention of whoever wrote that, but that is how it reads to me at least, especially due to the "but"). --103.211.18.141 (talk) 17:05, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
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