Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 14:35, 18 August 2022

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Major depressive disorder article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Misplaced Pages? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help. Assume good faith Be polite and avoid personal attacks Be welcoming to newcomers Seek dispute resolution if needed Article policies Neutral point of view No original research Verifiability

Find medical sources: Source guidelines · PubMed · Cochrane · DOAJ · Gale · OpenMD · ScienceDirect · Springer · Trip · Wiley · TWL

Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13Auto-archiving period: 3 months

	Major depressive disorder is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Misplaced Pages community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.
	This article appeared on Misplaced Pages's Main Page as Today's featured article on June 23, 2009.
Article milestones Date Process Result July 9, 2006 Good article nominee Listed December 31, 2006 Good article reassessment Delisted April 3, 2007 Featured article candidate Not promoted December 6, 2008 Featured article candidate Promoted June 23, 2009 Today's featured article Main Page Current status: Featured article

Ideal sources for Misplaced Pages's health content are defined in the guideline Misplaced Pages:Identifying reliable sources (medicine) and are typically review articles. Here are links to possibly useful sources of information about Major depressive disorder. PubMed provides review articles from the past five years (limit to free review articles) The TRIP database provides clinical publications about evidence-based medicine. Other potential sources include: Centre for Reviews and Dissemination and CDC

Template:Vital article

This article has not yet been rated on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects.

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Psychology High‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Psychology, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Psychology on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PsychologyWikipedia:WikiProject PsychologyTemplate:WikiProject Psychologypsychology High This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Neuroscience High‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Neuroscience, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Neuroscience on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.NeuroscienceWikipedia:WikiProject NeuroscienceTemplate:WikiProject Neuroscienceneuroscience High This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Medicine Top‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Medicine, which recommends that medicine-related articles follow the Manual of Style for medicine-related articles and that biomedical information in any article use high-quality medical sources. Please visit the project page for details or ask questions at Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Medicine.MedicineWikipedia:WikiProject MedicineTemplate:WikiProject Medicinemedicine Top This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. History of Science Mid‑importance This article is part of the History of Science WikiProject, an attempt to improve and organize the history of science content on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion. You can also help with the History of Science Collaboration of the Month.History of ScienceWikipedia:WikiProject History of ScienceTemplate:WikiProject History of Sciencehistory of science Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Molecular Biology: MCB This article is within the scope of WikiProject Molecular Biology, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Molecular Biology on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Molecular BiologyWikipedia:WikiProject Molecular BiologyTemplate:WikiProject Molecular BiologyMolecular Biology ??? This article has not yet received a rating on the importance scale. This article is supported by the Molecular and Cell Biology task force (assessed as Low-importance). Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Death: Suicide Low‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Death, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Death on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.DeathWikipedia:WikiProject DeathTemplate:WikiProject DeathDeath Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale. This article is supported by the Suicide task force (assessed as High-importance). Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Women's Health High‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women's Health, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Women's Health on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women's HealthWikipedia:WikiProject Women's HealthTemplate:WikiProject Women's Healthwomen's health High This article has been rated as High-importance on the importance scale. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. LGBTQ+ studies This article is of interest to WikiProject LGBTQ+ studies, which tries to ensure comprehensive and factual coverage of all LGBTQ-related issues on Misplaced Pages. For more information, or to get involved, please visit the project page or contribute to the discussion.LGBTQ+ studiesWikipedia:WikiProject LGBTQ+ studiesTemplate:WikiProject LGBTQ+ studiesLGBTQ+ studies Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Disability Major depressive disorder is within the scope of WikiProject Disability. For more information, visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.DisabilityWikipedia:WikiProject DisabilityTemplate:WikiProject DisabilityDisability Template:WP1.0

This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

Text and/or other creative content from this version of Depression in childhood and adolescence was copied or moved into Major depressive disorder with this edit on 20:55, July 20, 2022. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists.

Poorly cited info added directly to lead

I have removed this content which was added directly to the lead, cited to a source that does not rise to the level of sourcing expected for a featured article; in fact, may not rise to the level WP:MEDRS prefers for even a non-featured article. The content a) should be cited to a recent, high-quality secondary review or textbook; b) should be added to the appropriate place in the body of the article rather than the lead, and c) is probably WP:UNDUE for the lead even if properly cited. MaryMO (AR) please have a look at WP:MEDRS, WP:WIAFA (which require high-quality sources), WP:LEAD (which explains that the lead is a summary of content in the body), and WP:FAOWN. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:04, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

• Greetings @SandyGeorgia:. I'm concerned that this Misplaced Pages article includes little or no discussion of depression as a women's health issue, particularly in perimenopausal women. There's a passing mention of the higher incidence of depression in women, "Major depression is about twice as common in women as in men" (citation 2003) but little else. Given the current structure of the article, I'm not sure where to start. Do you have any suggestions as to what might be an appropriate place in the body of the article? Or examples of where this is handled well? Many thanks, MaryMO (AR) (talk) 15:51, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

  Where to put the content depends on what the content is; for example, the FA on TS has a Tourette_syndrome#Pregnancy section under the Management section, because the secondary-sourced review literature covers management during pregnancy. See WP:MEDORDER for suggestions of what content goes where. Keep in mind that content for a featured article should be from high-quality secondary literature reviews or textbooks, that due weight should be taken into consideration (does information belong better in a sub article?), and the lead is not the place to introduce content that is not in the body of the article. It will be easier to help decide what content to put where if you first provide the high-quality sources you would like to reflect. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:17, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

• Hi @SandyGeorgia:., Would these sources be more MEDRS compliant? My thanks for the suggestions, I will check them out, MaryMO (AR) (talk) 21:22, 19 May 2022 (UTC)

  If you could provide a PMID on each one, I can get to them quicker. This old but still useful information may help you understand how to use PubMed to find recent secondary reviews. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:11, 19 May 2022 (UTC)

  I have correctly formatted the citations you listed below (see WP:WIAFA, WP:CITEVAR for the style used in this article, and the Diberri tool for formatting a cite journal template from a PMID, and entered comments after each one. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:27, 19 May 2022 (UTC)

• Gordon, Jennifer L.; Sander, Bethany (1 November 2021). "The role of estradiol fluctuation in the pathophysiology of perimenopausal depression: A hypothesis paper". Psychoneuroendocrinology. 133: 105418. doi:10.1016/j.psyneuen.2021.105418. ISSN 0306-4530.

  The correctly formatted citation for this article is:

  Gordon JL, Sander B (November 2021). "The role of estradiol fluctuation in the pathophysiology of perimenopausal depression: a hypothesis paper". Psychoneuroendocrinology (Review). 133: 105418. doi:10.1016/j.psyneuen.2021.105418. PMID 34607269.

  It is a recent review, but it is also a hypothesis; WP:DUE should be taken into consideration on proposed text. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:14, 19 May 2022 (UTC)

• Albert, Kimberly M.; Newhouse, Paul A. (7 May 2019). "Estrogen, Stress, and Depression: Cognitive and Biological Interactions". Annual Review of Clinical Psychology. 15 (1): 399–423. doi:10.1146/annurev-clinpsy-050718-095557. ISSN 1548-5943.

  The correctly formatted citation for this article is:

  Albert KM, Newhouse PA (May 2019). "Estrogen, stress, and depression: cognitive and biological interactions". Annu Rev Clin Psychol (Review). 15: 399–423. doi:10.1146/annurev-clinpsy-050718-095557. PMID 30786242.

  It is a recent review and seems usable. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:18, 19 May 2022 (UTC)

• Maki, Pauline M.; Kornstein, Susan G.; Joffe, Hadine; Bromberger, Joyce T.; Freeman, Ellen W.; Athappilly, Geena; Bobo, William V.; Rubin, Leah H.; Koleva, Hristina K.; Cohen, Lee S.; Soares, Claudio N. (1 February 2019). "Guidelines for the Evaluation and Treatment of Perimenopausal Depression: Summary and Recommendations". Journal of Women's Health. 28 (2): 117–134. doi:10.1089/jwh.2018.27099.mensocrec. ISSN 1540-9996.

  The correctly formatted citation for this article is:

  Maki PM, Kornstein SG, Joffe H, et al. (February 2019). "Guidelines for the evaluation and treatment of perimenopausal depression: summary and recommendations". J Womens Health (Larchmt). 28 (2): 117–134. doi:10.1089/jwh.2018.27099.mensocrec. PMID 30182804.

  Guidelines from The North American Menopause Society (NAMS) and the National Network of Depression Centers Women and Mood Disorders Task Group (NNDC) ... WP:MEDRS calls for guidelines from national or international expert bodies ... has anyone ever heard of these groups ??? Depending on consensus as to whether these guidelines are in sync with better recognized international bodies, content may be usable. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:23, 19 May 2022 (UTC)

• Zsido, Rachel G.; Villringer, Arno; Sacher, Julia (2 November 2017). "Using positron emission tomography to investigate hormone-mediated neurochemical changes across the female lifespan: implications for depression". International Review of Psychiatry. 29 (6): 580–596. doi:10.1080/09540261.2017.1397607. ISSN 0954-0261.

  The correctly formatted citation for this article is:

  Zsido RG, Villringer A, Sacher J (December 2017). "Using positron emission tomography to investigate hormone-mediated neurochemical changes across the female lifespan: implications for depression". Int Rev Psychiatry (Review). 29 (6): 580–596. doi:10.1080/09540261.2017.1397607. PMID 29199875.

  It is a review, but somewhat dated; whether it is usable depends on a search to make sure the information remains current. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:25, 19 May 2022 (UTC)

Psychosocial factors

Very little is said in the article about the psychosocial factors that may play a role in the development of a major depressive disorder. I hope somebody with more knowledge than me on the subject can improve the article with this info. --Savig (talk) 08:35, 15 June 2022 (UTC)

Other terms related to major depressive disorder/episodes.

I have found other terms related to major depressive disorder/episodes. I thought that they could be included in this article to increase the scope of MDD but somebody says that none of them belong here and that the article is already too long, even though there are articles that are even longer . The list of other terms are:

• Anxiety/aggression-driven depression
• Atypical depression
• Endogenous depression
• Psychotic depression
• Treatment-resistant depression

Do you think these terms should be included in this article? zsteve21 (talk) 18:45, 22 July 2022 (UTC)

FA review needed

These issues have not been addressed. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:46, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

Management

... section is getting stubby ... lots of short paragraphs and information that needs to be merged or possibly removed. I see student editing here. (Also found info chunked in to the lead that was nowhere in the body, so fixed that.) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:50, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Elderly

This section looks also like it was chunked in as an afterthought. It duplicates some management information, which can be merged to Management or deleted, and the rest of it can go within the other sections as appropriate (prognosis or epidemiology?). SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:08, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Terminology

This section is not "terminology" and some of it looks undue; relevant content can be merged elsehwere. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:11, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Stigma

Out of whack, and looks like people are just chunking in random factoids here, rather than following WP:WIAFA. "There has been a continuing discussion of whether neurological disorders and mood disorders may be linked to creativity," has WHAT to do with stigma? The section is not very well written. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:13, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Sigh....I'll compare current with featured version in the first instance for structure etc. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 23:25, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

That section dates right back to the FAC. I can see it there almost unchanged in December 2008. So I think I might be the guilty party on that one. :P - I do think we need to do something about the length of the article and updating etc. Am looking now.Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:20, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

If you are guilty, so am I;) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:37, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Resurrecting this from the archive, as this is now the longest standing medicine-related FA at Misplaced Pages:Featured article review/notices given. Sandy and Casliber, how do you feel about the article's current state? If you're pleased with changes, I can remove it from the template. If not, I can try to whip up some volunteers to plug away at any deficiencies. All else fails, we can start the WP:FAR process. Thanks for all your work on this! -- and of course thanks to Casliber for doing the heavy lifting to bring this to FA condition almost 13 years ago. I hope you're both doing well. Ajpolino (talk) 14:47, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

@Ajpolino: I think the article needs some cleanup. I've mostly been looking at unclear/inelegant prose today, but I intend look into Sandy's content concerns soon. Haven't gotten through the whole article yet, but the "Pathophysiology" section, for one, seems overly detailed. Cheers, Ovinus (talk) 00:39, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

Sigh...on the "to do" list - will have a look later. Daytime here Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:02, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

Thanks both. Take whatever time you need, of course. And let me know if there's anything I can do to be useful. Ajpolino (talk) 13:46, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

What I'm doing is comparing the current version to this which was soon after it was promoted and near time it was mainpaged. Just to compare the prose and scope mainly. However, the data needs to be updated to latest studies. I've begun adjusting the prose a bit. Work in progress....Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:16, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

Basic Problems of this Article

Hi, I was studying this article that I realized there were many sentences that do not have a reference. Also, the references were not added to the article alike, some one are sfn and others are not. Many parts need to be updated and the article is not comprehensive. I do not know how this article was Featured but must not be Featured now. Pereoptic   09:29, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

I can't find a single unsourced paragraph in this entire article, are they any concrete instances you can point out where a source would be needed but is lacking? I ask the same for what you think needs updating and what information is missing.--Megaman en m (talk) 11:21, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

Likewise, where is the specific uncited text? Every sentence does not need to be cited; the reference may after a subsequent sentence. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:42, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

@Megaman en m:For example, the first paragraph of the management section, the second paragraph of Antidepressants.

@SandyGeorgia: The main problems I mentioned in the article were not the only one. To the things I mentioned above, add the short introduction of the article and Having a reference in the introduction.

Issues not covered in the article: , In the pathophysiology section, it is also possible to discuss the relationship between major depression and chronic diseases

Updates:

Pereoptic   19:28, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

The first paragraph of management clearly references the NICE guidelines, which are cited at the end of that para (including the bullet points). The second paragraph of antidepressants is cited, so I'm unsure if I'm looking somewhere different than you are ?? The size of the lead is fine, and citations in the lead are neither required nor discouraged; I see no problem there. Could you please provide a PMID or description of what you consider not covered, so others don't have to click on each little bracketed number to see the concern? It would help, thanks. Casliber I am wearying of being the only person maintaining this article. Can we get it updated or else move to the next step? I am swamped, and yet here I am, trying to click on little numbers to figure out what is wanted next. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:51, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

Oh joy. Updating medical articles. Ok, will have a look soon. Just got some other chores to attend to (long time since I looked at this) Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 21:45, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

Joyous it is not, and I'm really tired of it; we need committed FA-knowledgeable editors to keep this article updated. Are the 2004 NICE guidelines the latest? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:53, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

The statistics presented in this reference to ==> Epidemiology (update)

Citation: "Major depression". U.S. National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH). January 2022. Archived from the original on 9 August 2022. Retrieved 14 August 2022. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 11:40, 14 August 2022 (UTC)

Done, but this may be overemphasizing one country (Misplaced Pages is global); I would not be surprised if someone deletes it. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:45, 15 August 2022 (UTC)

«Structured psychotherapies» section in this reference to ==> Management (for reference update and article expansion)

PMID 34877271 is how you can easily reference a source on talk for others. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 11:28, 14 August 2022 (UTC)

Citation format: Karrouri R, Hammani Z, Benjelloun R, Otheman Y (November 2021). "Major depressive disorder: Validated treatments and future challenges". World J Clin Cases (Review). 9 (31): 9350–9367. doi:10.12998/wjcc.v9.i31.9350. PMC 8610877. PMID 34877271.{{cite journal}}: CS1 maint: unflagged free DOI (link) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 11:28, 14 August 2022 (UTC)

This reference to ==> Cause and Prognosis (for example generalized anxiety disorder, obsessive-compulsive disorder, panic disorder, and social anxiety disorder and poor treatment outcomes)

That is a news source, not a secondary review. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 11:22, 14 August 2022 (UTC)

I think this reference is considered a secondary review, because at the end of it, the bibliography section is placed. In addition, its source is the American Psychiatric Association. Pereoptic   13:09, 14 August 2022 (UTC)

I'm not using a source like that in a Featured article; an alternate approach to adding whatever content you wish to include is to see if any of the sources listed at the end of that article are secondary reviews, and use them. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:09, 14 August 2022 (UTC)

I will mention the shortcomings of the article's introduction in the future. My written English grammar is a little weak, otherwise I would have added the required content to the article myself. Pereoptic   09:27, 14 August 2022 (UTC)

I'm willing to help do the updates as I have time, but I can get to things faster if you provide MEDRS sources and if I don't have to do all the citation formatting (see above). Do you have the tool for citing PMIDs used in this article? Or you can use the PMID template followed by a bracket and the number for easier reference. For today, I have to finish work on another Featured article, so perhaps someone else will get to them faster. Spicy have you any interest in helping maintain this FA? I don't have time to get to it today, and two updates needed are identified above. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 11:45, 14 August 2022 (UTC)

Sorry Sandy, but this is pretty far out of my wheelhouse and I'm busy with other things at the moment. Spicy (talk) 17:48, 15 August 2022 (UTC)

Only one source remained:

Laishley EJ, Barrett AM, Isaac O, Thiemer K, Jariwalla R, Grossberg SE, Sedmak JJ, Anderson TR, Slotkin TA (November 1975). "Regulation and properties of an invertase from Clostridium pasteurianum". Can J Microbiol. 21 (11): 1711–8. doi:10.1139/m75-251. PMID 140. to ==> Cause Pereoptic   13:22, 14 August 2022 (UTC)

That's a very dated primary source; the information should have been mentioned in a WP:MEDDATE compliant WP:MEDRS. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:12, 14 August 2022 (UTC)

@SandyGeorgia:It seems that I mention the wrong reference. Correct reference: PMID 34634250 Pereoptic   16:58, 14 August 2022 (UTC)

Better :) I can attempt to work on some of this over time, but for the next few days, I am up to my eyeballs at the Joan of Arc Featured article review, and must stay focused on getting that wrapped up. I'm hoping someone else will jump in here to help ... what is listed so far does not look insurmountable. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:54, 14 August 2022 (UTC)

I hope you will be successful in improving the above article. There is no rush, we will improve the article as time permits. I will also try to add things to the article over time, although it needs to be checked grammatically by an English speaker. Sincerely Pereoptic   20:28, 14 August 2022 (UTC)

• Misplaced Pages featured articles
• Featured articles that have appeared on the main page
• Featured articles that have appeared on the main page once
• All unassessed articles
• FA-Class psychology articles
• High-importance psychology articles
• WikiProject Psychology articles
• FA-Class neuroscience articles
• High-importance neuroscience articles
• FA-Class medicine articles
• Top-importance medicine articles
• All WikiProject Medicine pages
• FA-Class history of science articles
• Mid-importance history of science articles
• WikiProject History of Science articles
• FA-Class Molecular Biology articles
• Unknown-importance Molecular Biology articles
• FA-Class MCB articles
• Low-importance MCB articles
• WikiProject Molecular and Cellular Biology articles
• All WikiProject Molecular Biology pages
• FA-Class Death articles
• Low-importance Death articles
• FA-Class Suicide articles
• High-importance Suicide articles
• Suicide articles
• FA-Class women's health articles
• High-importance women's health articles
• WikiProject Women's Health articles
• FA-Class LGBTQ+ studies articles
• WikiProject LGBTQ+ studies articles
• FA-Class Disability articles
• WikiProject Disability articles
• Misplaced Pages articles that use American English