Revision as of 14:24, 27 August 2022 editSandyGeorgia (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Page movers, File movers, Mass message senders, New page reviewers, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers, Template editors279,025 edits Fix diff →Esketamine as treatment for MDD← Previous edit | Revision as of 14:55, 27 August 2022 edit undoSandyGeorgia (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Page movers, File movers, Mass message senders, New page reviewers, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers, Template editors279,025 edits →Esketamine as treatment for MDD: better diffNext edit → | ||
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{{u|Wikipedialuva}} first, thank you for using secondary literature reviews and for proposing your addition on talk. It would be helpful if you would use for generating a citation conforming with the ] of this (and many medical) articles. It would also be helpful if you would wait for feedback, and when other editors are busy, ping if necessary.{{pb}} More importantly, you are not a novice editor, and POV contributions should not be happening. Please remember that changes to Misplaced Pages are immediately viewable by thousands of people every day, and we have a responsibility to get it right. The content you added grossly misrepresented the sources, and in a dangerous way—appearing to promote a treatment for which serious concerns exist. Using MEDRS sources is not sufficient; you also need to represent correctly what they say. Please do not do that again, anytime, anywhere on Misplaced Pages so that further intervention to prevent harm from your edits won't be necessary. You can wait longer than a week for others to weigh in, or ping others as needed, on proposed text if you are unsure how to write it yourself. {{pb}} {{ping|Casliber|Ajpolino|Colin|Spicy|Graham Beards}} this content stood for five days before I found time to address it; I suspect we need to proceed to ] as this article is not adequately watchlisted, and trying to keep up with these declining (to the point of dangerous) medical FAs is demoralizing. ] (]) 14:22, 27 August 2022 (UTC) | {{u|Wikipedialuva}} first, thank you for using secondary literature reviews and for proposing your addition on talk. It would be helpful if you would use for generating a citation conforming with the ] of this (and many medical) articles. It would also be helpful if you would wait for feedback, and when other editors are busy, ping if necessary.{{pb}} More importantly, you are not a novice editor, and POV contributions should not be happening. Please remember that changes to Misplaced Pages are immediately viewable by thousands of people every day, and we have a responsibility to get it right. The content you added grossly misrepresented the sources, and in a dangerous way—appearing to promote a treatment for which serious concerns exist. Using MEDRS sources is not sufficient; you also need to represent correctly what they say. Please do not do that again, anytime, anywhere on Misplaced Pages so that further intervention to prevent harm from your edits won't be necessary. You can wait longer than a week for others to weigh in, or ping others as needed, on proposed text if you are unsure how to write it yourself. {{pb}} {{ping|Casliber|Ajpolino|Colin|Spicy|Graham Beards}} this content stood for five days before I found time to address it; I suspect we need to proceed to ] as this article is not adequately watchlisted, and trying to keep up with these declining (to the point of dangerous) medical FAs is demoralizing. ] (]) 14:22, 27 August 2022 (UTC) |
Revision as of 14:55, 27 August 2022
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Text and/or other creative content from this version of Depression in childhood and adolescence was copied or moved into Major depressive disorder with this edit on 20:55, July 20, 2022. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. |
Psychosocial factors
Very little is said in the article about the psychosocial factors that may play a role in the development of a major depressive disorder. I hope somebody with more knowledge than me on the subject can improve the article with this info. --Savig (talk) 08:35, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
Other terms related to major depressive disorder/episodes.
I have found other terms related to major depressive disorder/episodes. I thought that they could be included in this article to increase the scope of MDD but somebody says that none of them belong here and that the article is already too long, even though there are articles that are even longer . The list of other terms are:
- Anxiety/aggression-driven depression
- Atypical depression
- Endogenous depression
- Psychotic depression
- Treatment-resistant depression
Do you think these terms should be included in this article? zsteve21 (talk) 18:45, 22 July 2022 (UTC)
FA review needed
These issues have not been addressed. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:46, 20 November 2020 (UTC)
Management
... section is getting stubby ... lots of short paragraphs and information that needs to be merged or possibly removed. I see student editing here. (Also found info chunked in to the lead that was nowhere in the body, so fixed that.) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:50, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
Elderly
This section looks also like it was chunked in as an afterthought. It duplicates some management information, which can be merged to Management or deleted, and the rest of it can go within the other sections as appropriate (prognosis or epidemiology?). SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:08, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
Terminology
This section is not "terminology" and some of it looks undue; relevant content can be merged elsehwere. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:11, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
Stigma
Out of whack, and looks like people are just chunking in random factoids here, rather than following WP:WIAFA. "There has been a continuing discussion of whether neurological disorders and mood disorders may be linked to creativity," has WHAT to do with stigma? The section is not very well written. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:13, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
Sigh....I'll compare current with featured version in the first instance for structure etc. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 23:25, 17 August 2020 (UTC)- That section dates right back to the FAC. I can see it there almost unchanged in December 2008. So I think I might be the guilty party on that one. :P - I do think we need to do something about the length of the article and updating etc. Am looking now.Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:20, 18 August 2020 (UTC)
- If you are guilty, so am I;) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:37, 18 August 2020 (UTC)
Resurrecting this from the archive, as this is now the longest standing medicine-related FA at Misplaced Pages:Featured article review/notices given. Sandy and Casliber, how do you feel about the article's current state? If you're pleased with changes, I can remove it from the template. If not, I can try to whip up some volunteers to plug away at any deficiencies. All else fails, we can start the WP:FAR process. Thanks for all your work on this! -- and of course thanks to Casliber for doing the heavy lifting to bring this to FA condition almost 13 years ago. I hope you're both doing well. Ajpolino (talk) 14:47, 8 August 2021 (UTC)
- @Ajpolino: I think the article needs some cleanup. I've mostly been looking at unclear/inelegant prose today, but I intend look into Sandy's content concerns soon. Haven't gotten through the whole article yet, but the "Pathophysiology" section, for one, seems overly detailed. Cheers, Ovinus (talk) 00:39, 25 September 2021 (UTC)
- Sigh...on the "to do" list - will have a look later. Daytime here Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:02, 25 September 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks both. Take whatever time you need, of course. And let me know if there's anything I can do to be useful. Ajpolino (talk) 13:46, 25 September 2021 (UTC)
- What I'm doing is comparing the current version to this which was soon after it was promoted and near time it was mainpaged. Just to compare the prose and scope mainly. However, the data needs to be updated to latest studies. I've begun adjusting the prose a bit. Work in progress....Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:16, 25 September 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks both. Take whatever time you need, of course. And let me know if there's anything I can do to be useful. Ajpolino (talk) 13:46, 25 September 2021 (UTC)
- Sigh...on the "to do" list - will have a look later. Daytime here Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:02, 25 September 2021 (UTC)
Basic Problems of this Article
Hi, I was studying this article that I realized there were many sentences that do not have a reference. Also, the references were not added to the article alike, some one are sfn and others are not. Many parts need to be updated and the article is not comprehensive. I do not know how this article was Featured but must not be Featured now. Pereoptic 09:29, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
- I can't find a single unsourced paragraph in this entire article, are they any concrete instances you can point out where a source would be needed but is lacking? I ask the same for what you think needs updating and what information is missing.--Megaman en m (talk) 11:21, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
- Likewise, where is the specific uncited text? Every sentence does not need to be cited; the reference may after a subsequent sentence. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:42, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
- @Megaman en m:For example, the first paragraph of the management section, the second paragraph of Antidepressants.
- @SandyGeorgia: The main problems I mentioned in the article were not the only one. To the things I mentioned above, add the short introduction of the article and Having a reference in the introduction.
- Issues not covered in the article: , In the pathophysiology section, it is also possible to discuss the relationship between major depression and chronic diseases
- Updates:
- Pereoptic 19:28, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
- The first paragraph of management clearly references the NICE guidelines, which are cited at the end of that para (including the bullet points). The second paragraph of antidepressants is cited, so I'm unsure if I'm looking somewhere different than you are ?? The size of the lead is fine, and citations in the lead are neither required nor discouraged; I see no problem there. Could you please provide a PMID or description of what you consider not covered, so others don't have to click on each little bracketed number to see the concern? It would help, thanks. Casliber I am wearying of being the only person maintaining this article. Can we get it updated or else move to the next step? I am swamped, and yet here I am, trying to click on little numbers to figure out what is wanted next. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:51, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
- Oh joy. Updating medical articles. Ok, will have a look soon. Just got some other chores to attend to (long time since I looked at this) Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 21:45, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
- Joyous it is not, and I'm really tired of it; we need committed FA-knowledgeable editors to keep this article updated. Are the 2004 NICE guidelines the latest? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:53, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
- The statistics presented in this reference to ==> Epidemiology (update)
- Citation: "Major depression". U.S. National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH). January 2022. Archived from the original on 9 August 2022. Retrieved 14 August 2022. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 11:40, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
- Done, but this may be overemphasizing one country (Misplaced Pages is global); I would not be surprised if someone deletes it. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:45, 15 August 2022 (UTC)
- Citation: "Major depression". U.S. National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH). January 2022. Archived from the original on 9 August 2022. Retrieved 14 August 2022. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 11:40, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
- «Structured psychotherapies» section in this reference to ==> Management (for reference update and article expansion)
- PMID 34877271 is how you can easily reference a source on talk for others. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 11:28, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
- Citation format: Karrouri R, Hammani Z, Benjelloun R, Otheman Y (November 2021). "Major depressive disorder: Validated treatments and future challenges". World J Clin Cases (Review). 9 (31): 9350–9367. doi:10.12998/wjcc.v9.i31.9350. PMC 8610877. PMID 34877271.
{{cite journal}}
: CS1 maint: unflagged free DOI (link) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 11:28, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
- Citation format: Karrouri R, Hammani Z, Benjelloun R, Otheman Y (November 2021). "Major depressive disorder: Validated treatments and future challenges". World J Clin Cases (Review). 9 (31): 9350–9367. doi:10.12998/wjcc.v9.i31.9350. PMC 8610877. PMID 34877271.
- PMID 34877271 is how you can easily reference a source on talk for others. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 11:28, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
- This reference to ==> Cause and Prognosis (for example generalized anxiety disorder, obsessive-compulsive disorder, panic disorder, and social anxiety disorder and poor treatment outcomes)
- That is a news source, not a secondary review. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 11:22, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
- I think this reference is considered a secondary review, because at the end of it, the bibliography section is placed. In addition, its source is the American Psychiatric Association. Pereoptic 13:09, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
- I'm not using a source like that in a Featured article; an alternate approach to adding whatever content you wish to include is to see if any of the sources listed at the end of that article are secondary reviews, and use them. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:09, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
- I think this reference is considered a secondary review, because at the end of it, the bibliography section is placed. In addition, its source is the American Psychiatric Association. Pereoptic 13:09, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
- That is a news source, not a secondary review. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 11:22, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
- I will mention the shortcomings of the article's introduction in the future. My written English grammar is a little weak, otherwise I would have added the required content to the article myself. Pereoptic 09:27, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
- I'm willing to help do the updates as I have time, but I can get to things faster if you provide MEDRS sources and if I don't have to do all the citation formatting (see above). Do you have the tool for citing PMIDs used in this article? Or you can use the PMID template followed by a bracket and the number for easier reference. For today, I have to finish work on another Featured article, so perhaps someone else will get to them faster. Spicy have you any interest in helping maintain this FA? I don't have time to get to it today, and two updates needed are identified above. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 11:45, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
- Sorry Sandy, but this is pretty far out of my wheelhouse and I'm busy with other things at the moment. Spicy (talk) 17:48, 15 August 2022 (UTC)
- Only one source remained:
- Laishley EJ, Barrett AM, Isaac O, Thiemer K, Jariwalla R, Grossberg SE, Sedmak JJ, Anderson TR, Slotkin TA (November 1975). "Regulation and properties of an invertase from Clostridium pasteurianum". Can J Microbiol. 21 (11): 1711–8. doi:10.1139/m75-251. PMID 140. to ==> Cause Pereoptic 13:22, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
- That's a very dated primary source; the information should have been mentioned in a WP:MEDDATE compliant WP:MEDRS. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:12, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
- @SandyGeorgia:It seems that I mention the wrong reference. Correct reference: PMID 34634250 Pereoptic 16:58, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
- Better :) I can attempt to work on some of this over time, but for the next few days, I am up to my eyeballs at the Joan of Arc Featured article review, and must stay focused on getting that wrapped up. I'm hoping someone else will jump in here to help ... what is listed so far does not look insurmountable. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:54, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
- I hope you will be successful in improving the above article. There is no rush, we will improve the article as time permits. I will also try to add things to the article over time, although it needs to be checked grammatically by an English speaker. Sincerely Pereoptic 20:28, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
- Better :) I can attempt to work on some of this over time, but for the next few days, I am up to my eyeballs at the Joan of Arc Featured article review, and must stay focused on getting that wrapped up. I'm hoping someone else will jump in here to help ... what is listed so far does not look insurmountable. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:54, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
- @SandyGeorgia:It seems that I mention the wrong reference. Correct reference: PMID 34634250 Pereoptic 16:58, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
- That's a very dated primary source; the information should have been mentioned in a WP:MEDDATE compliant WP:MEDRS. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:12, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
- I'm willing to help do the updates as I have time, but I can get to things faster if you provide MEDRS sources and if I don't have to do all the citation formatting (see above). Do you have the tool for citing PMIDs used in this article? Or you can use the PMID template followed by a bracket and the number for easier reference. For today, I have to finish work on another Featured article, so perhaps someone else will get to them faster. Spicy have you any interest in helping maintain this FA? I don't have time to get to it today, and two updates needed are identified above. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 11:45, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
- Oh joy. Updating medical articles. Ok, will have a look soon. Just got some other chores to attend to (long time since I looked at this) Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 21:45, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
- The first paragraph of management clearly references the NICE guidelines, which are cited at the end of that para (including the bullet points). The second paragraph of antidepressants is cited, so I'm unsure if I'm looking somewhere different than you are ?? The size of the lead is fine, and citations in the lead are neither required nor discouraged; I see no problem there. Could you please provide a PMID or description of what you consider not covered, so others don't have to click on each little bracketed number to see the concern? It would help, thanks. Casliber I am wearying of being the only person maintaining this article. Can we get it updated or else move to the next step? I am swamped, and yet here I am, trying to click on little numbers to figure out what is wanted next. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:51, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
Urgent FAR needed
I am one person and cannot maintain this old FA alone, and will no longer endure the demoralization of trying to do so. This is one of the oldest listed at WP:FARGIVEN, and my recommendation is that someone submit it urgently to WP:FAR. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 14:36, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
Esketamine as treatment for MDD
@SandyGeorgia removed my edits concerning the use of esketamine as a treatment for depression (as well as a reference to an FDA press release stating that it had been approved) and stated that I needed to obtain a secondary source and discuss this on the talkpage. Spravato is an FDA-approved intranasal formulation of esketamine with an indication for treatment resistant depression when combined with an oral antidepressant. I think that this is an important treatment modality that should be listed with other treatments for depression. There are many high-quality, WP:MEDRS complaint sources that are about Spravato that are readily available. Examples of peer reviewed MEDRS sources include PMID 32729898 and PMID 32163257. While on the topic of ketamine for depression, I feel that it could be worthwhile to discuss racemic ketamine as a treatment like the management of depression has, although this is not currently FDA approved for this indication. In closing, I feel there should be a mention of esketamine in the treatment section of the article and possibly also about ketamine in general. Thanks. Wikipedialuva (talk) 00:38, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
- I am very open to how it would be phrased. An example text might be: "A nasal spray formulation of the NMDA receptor antagonist esketamine, sold under the brand name Spravato, gained FDA approval in 2019 for the treatment of treatment-resistant depression when combined with an oral antidepressant." Wikipedialuva (talk) 02:35, 20 August 2022 (UTC) Wikipedialuva (talk) 02:35, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
- This is an updated version of proposed langue for ketamine. All sources are MEDRS complaint with each been peer reviewed and have cited multiple times in other publications. Please feel free to offer opinions or changes. "Ketamine, an NMDA receptor antagonist, has demonstrated rapid-acting antidepressant effects in patients with treatment-resistant major depressive disorder. A nasal spray formulation of esketamine (Spravato) received FDA approval in March 2019 for the treatment of treatment-resistant depression when used in combination with a conventional antidepressant." Wikipedialuva (talk) 05:50, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
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Wikipedialuva first, thank you for using secondary literature reviews and for proposing your addition on talk. It would be helpful if you would use this template for generating a citation conforming with the WP:CITEVAR of this (and many medical) articles. It would also be helpful if you would wait for feedback, and when other editors are busy, ping if necessary.
More importantly, you are not a novice editor, and POV contributions to such a serious extent should not be happening. Please remember that changes to Misplaced Pages are immediately viewable by thousands of people every day, and we have a responsibility to get it right. The content you added grossly misrepresented the sources, and in a dangerous way—appearing to promote a treatment for which serious concerns exist. Using MEDRS sources is not sufficient; you also need to represent correctly what they say. Please do not do that again, anytime, anywhere on Misplaced Pages so that further intervention to prevent harm from your edits won't be necessary. You can wait longer than a week for others to weigh in, or ping others as needed, on proposed text if you are unsure how to write it yourself.
@Casliber, Ajpolino, Colin, Spicy, and Graham Beards: this content stood for five days before I found time to address it; I suspect we need to proceed to WP:FAR as this article is not adequately watchlisted, and trying to keep up with these declining (to the point of dangerous) medical FAs is demoralizing. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 14:22, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
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