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A news item involving Mahsa Amini protests was featured on Misplaced Pages's Main Page in the In the news section on 22 September 2022.

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Expanding background section

Maybe also add a bit of info in previous protests? Like the girls of revolution street (who were the first to take off veil) and the 2017 and 2019 protests. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:8109:8880:5A68:41D7:7FA0:956A:C845 (talk) 07:59, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

this is about the Mahsa Amini protests, not all women's protests in iran. Manumaker08 (talk) 12:31, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

The Iranian protests against compulsory hijab are strongly related, so they should be mentioned in the Background section of this article. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 17:54, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

Agreed. 98.155.8.5 (talk) 18:13, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

Allegations presented as facts

Misplaced Pages should not claim Amini was killed or beaten by police in its own voice. This is a very serious accusation, which is also very seriously denied. Misplaced Pages should present both widely reported explanations, with attribution, or neither. InedibleHulk (talk) 07:22, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

You want to give too much benefit to the Shiite regime which doesn't deserve it.--2601:C4:C300:A210:549C:571D:D50F:C824 (talk) 02:37, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

No, I want this Misplaced Pages article to meet basic Wikipedian standards. InedibleHulk (talk) 03:10, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

I removed the text claiming Amini was killed or beaten in its own voice since it wasn't adequately sourced, feel free to fix or re-add pov tag if other issues arise. If mainstream sources state Amini was confirmed either killed or beaten, such statements can be re-added. Rolf H Nelson (talk) 03:15, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

Thank you, Rolf. InedibleHulk (talk) 03:32, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

No independent mainstream organisation is allowed to report from inside Iran. The only Media working from inside are state owned and unreliable. Therefore it is almost impossible to independently verify she was killed. At least report this fact for some context for Misplaced Pages readers. Furthermore, Amini's father has confirmed she has had no pre-existing heart or brain condition, which is contrary to what the state media said. 2003:C0:272E:ECB3:346D:D94:241A:DED7 (talk) 09:06, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

This was already included in the article about Death of Mahsa Amini. Regardless of what is actually true, Misplaced Pages can only put sourced information that is reasonably believed to be accurate. In case of conflict, all viewpoints must be included in the article with their relative weight. To discard certain sources of information entirely, you'd have to show a track record of those sources manipulating or falsifying information (using other more reliable sources of information, such as scientific publications in trusted journals or such). Ideophagous (talk) 14:04, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

New section for every day of protests?

should we keep this format or combine the events and update as things continue? Manumaker08 (talk) 17:56, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

If the protests go on for much longer, I think we'll probably have to switch to sections by sub-themes instead of by chronology.-- Ideophagous (talk) 07:45, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

Slogans are needed

• "Woman, Life, Freedom" (the signature slogan of the protests)
• "This year is the year of blood, Seyyed Ali will be down!"
• "Four decades of crimes, shame on this vilayat!"
• "Our shame, our shame, our despicable police!"
• "Iranians, it is enough! Show your courage!"
• "Khamenei, the Zahhak! We will drag you under the soil!"
• "A government against women! We don't want , we don't want ."
• "Iranians! Yell, Shout out your rights!"
• "This is the last message: the target is the regime itself."
• "From Kurdistan to Tehran, violence against women!"
• "Khamenei is a murderer, his vilayat is invalid."
• "Sweat to the blood of Mahsa, Iran will be free!"
• "Death to the dictator"
• "Mojtaba, hope you die, you don't see the leadership."
• "Reza Shah, we will die, we will take Iran back."
• "Aggression, crime, damn this vilayat!"
• "Unemployment, slavery, women's hijab, forced!"
• "Basiji, go get lost!"
• "Kurdistan, Kurdistan, eye and light of Iran!"
• "Azerbaijan is awake, it is the refuge of Kurdistan!"
• "We will not leave Iran, we will take Iran back!"
• "I swear by Mahsa's blood", "Iran will be free"
• "Khamenei is a -----, his government is invalid"
• "Oppression against women from Kurdistan to Tehran"

24.125.105.21 (talk) 00:23, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

• User:Stephen, please explain your removal.--24.125.105.21 (talk) 00:26, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

  At the very least, some citations & reliable sources will probably be needed. Cheers! 98.155.8.5 (talk) 01:00, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

Here is Washington Post https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/09/16/iran-woman-dies-detention-police/ “Khamenei is a killer; his government is invalid,” they chanted.--24.125.105.21 (talk) 01:16, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

Dubious

Imams in Iran are not a monolothic group. The statement that All Imams of Friday Prayers expressed anger and demanded police enforcement may well be what's stated in the source, but it's rather dubious that they all demanded police enforcement (and, implicitly, that none of them called for police to allow peaceful protest and stop using violence); did the news source really get individual reports on the emotions and opinions expressed by all Friday Prayer imams in Iran? and verify that all demanded police enforcement? See Category:Iranian Shia clerics for some of the Misplaced Pages articles on individual Iranian Shia clerics, which should include some Imams of Friday Prayers. Boud (talk) 14:04, 24 September 2022 (UTC)

• The official Imams are appointed by the state. If Ahmad Jannati, Ahmad Khatami, Mohammed Emami-Kashani, Kazem Seddiqi, Ali Movahedi-Kermani, or any official Imam supports the protesters, then he will be dismissed.

The Special Clerical Court ensures adherence to dogma by the Shiite clerics with official posts in the Iranian government. --2601:C4:C300:A210:BDDA:8BC1:6601:1D02 (talk) 14:16, 24 September 2022 (UTC)

Most countries have some sort of legal system and a police + court system to discourage violations of the law, but nevertheless, the laws are violated by some people. "All obeyed" is usually dubious, especially when the number of people in "all" is big. Boud (talk) 14:35, 24 September 2022 (UTC)

First, you aren't doing research. The number of Friday prayer Imams is very small: they are List of Tehran's Friday Prayer Imams and List of provincial representatives appointed by Supreme Leader of Iran.

Name a counterexample.--2601:C4:C300:A210:BDDA:8BC1:6601:1D02 (talk) 14:41, 24 September 2022 (UTC)

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Thanks for pointing out that the number is not so big. If you really want to restore the text (it wasn't me who removed it) without the 'dubious' tag, I would still suggest using more careful wording, e.g. "The" instead of "All", which literally would tend to be interpreted to mean the same thing, but allows a "reasonable" interpretation rather than a strict "all" interpretation. Boud (talk) 15:37, 24 September 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:

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You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 19:52, 24 September 2022 (UTC)

Page title.

I think that we should change the title of the page, something like 'September 2022 Iranian Protests'. "Mahsa Amini" protests just sound weird, her death wasn't the only reason the protests started anyway, it was also mandatory hijab since 1979. Anyway, I don't know how to change the title. So, anyone? AradTheSimp (talk) 23:39, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

But her death sparked this newest round of protests, no? Cheers. 98.155.8.5 (talk) 00:09, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

Many sources are calling them "The Mahsa Amini Protests". We're just going by referenced and verifiable information.-- Ideophagous (talk) 07:43, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

These aren't the only current protests in Iran. We need an unambiguous name for these, which September 2022 doesn't do. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 09:41, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

I would suggest it be changed to something like “2022 Iranian unrest” and I agree with you that Mahsa Amini’s death isn’t the only thing they’re uprising against. Thotianaa (talk) 02:02, 24 September 2022 (UTC)

As already mentioned, a lot of news sources are calling the recent events "Mahsa Amini Protests", so the title seems appropriate. Just Google that title between quotes (to get an exact match) and you'll see how many results you get. If more reliable literary sources on the event are written in the future, and they agree to use a different name to the current protests, the title can be change accordingly.-- Ideophagous (talk) 10:21, 24 September 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 24 September 2022

I think Mahsa Amini protests should be moved to September 2022 Iranian protests. It seems better because the protests werent just caused caused by the death of Mahsa Amini. HiltonCalifornia (talk) 22:17, 24 September 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose. But her death was the spark. Almost all reporting starts with tying the protests to her death. 331dot (talk) 22:25, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
• Comment. This is probably the 3rd or 4th time someone requests this. First, what you suggested was the original title of the article actually, and it was moved to the current title. Second, if you check most sources, they're using "Mahsa Amini protests" to distinguish them from other protests this year and earlier. You only need to do a Google search for an exact match with "September 2022 Iranian protests" and "Mahsa Amini Protests" and compare how many results you get. We can only go by what the sources say.-- Ideophagous (talk) 23:33, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose the proposed title change. Agree with Ideophagous about this, that we need to go by what reliable sources are saying. Cheers! 98.155.8.5 (talk) 00:40, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
• Mildly oppose, for now. both titles comply with WP:ARTICLETITLE. WP:COMMONNAME is hard to apply here, since we don't have historical records yet and most sources are just calling them as something like "the current protests, which (are about/were triggered by) the death of a woman in custody who was detained for breaking hijab laws", but "the Mahaa Amini protests" seems like a good shortening of this. Rolf H Nelson (talk) 01:10, 25 September 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 27 September 2022

Mahsa Amini protests → Mahsa Amini death protests – The tile is kind of misleading that the protests are being led by the deceased, while it rather should be the "Protest against death of Mahsa Animi". BoyHayHay (talk) 04:39, 27 September 2022 (UTC) BoyHayHay (talk) 04:39, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

Moved this here, because of related ongoing discussions. Cheers! 98.155.8.5 (talk) 05:09, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

Anti-protest rallies

Hi Mhhossein, you added:

• "In response to the week-long protests over Amini's death, people all over Iran held demonstrations in support of the government."

Yet The Guardian source you used actually says this:

• Pro-government rallies have taken place in several cities across Iran in an attempt to counter a week of mounting unrest triggered by the death of a woman in police custody.

Proceeding further, you added:

• "According to live state television broadcast, demonstrators chanted "Death to America" and "Death to Israel."

Yet The Guardian says this:

• Marchers called for anti-government protesters to be executed, while the army signalled that it was prepared to crush dissent by telling Iranians that it would confront “the enemies” behind the unrest. Demonstrators condemned the anti-government protesters as “Israel’s soldiers”, live state television coverage showed. They also shouted “Death to America” and “Death to Israel”, common slogans the country’s clerical rulers use to try and stir up support for authorities, who claimed the demonstrations of support were spontaneous. “Offenders of the Qur’an must be executed,” the crowds chanted.

As per the evidence above, I think there are some WP:POV issues concerning the material you added, which should be addressed. Right now, it (perhaps unintentionally) seems as if you tried to pick the best of both worlds, that is, using a good source, whilst carefully omitting the part that sheds negative light on the government and its supporters. Thanks, - LouisAragon (talk) 12:44, 25 September 2022 (UTC)

I have reverted the addition per LouisAragon's comment, as this is a quite obvious misrepresentation of the source. I too, would like an explanation on this. --HistoryofIran (talk) 15:11, 25 September 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for reverting, sounds like a blatant misrepresentation of what the source says, but are we really surprised to see Mhhossein doing this kind of thing ?---Wikaviani 17:20, 25 September 2022 (UTC)

@Wikaviani: there is no need for personal attacks.VR _talk 04:40, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for the reminder, but calling a cat a cat is not a "personal attack". Every time the Iranian regime kills one of its citizens, this guy is there to try to defend the regime, either with unreliable sources or by misrepresentation of what reliable sources say.---Wikaviani 06:49, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi @Louis: Thanks for the heads up, then do you have any suggestions for adding the missing viewpoint on the marches against the anti-government protests? --Mhhossein 05:55, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

Sahar Karimy (talk) 23:32, 25 September 2022 (UTC)

@Sahar Karimy: there is no need for WP:Personal attacks.VR _talk 04:40, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

Changing name from “Masha Amini protests” to “2022 Iranian Unrest”

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This protests are not only against police brutality, but also against the government. Plus, the protests are very violent and many people died. WikiManUser21 (talk) 16:11, 25 September 2022 (UTC)

Aaaand another one. Please check the section above titled "Page title". This has been discussed to death, no pun intended.--Ideophagous (talk) 16:55, 25 September 2022 (UTC)

Iran’s pro-government counter-protesters try to change narrative

thorities to push back against what they have termed the “norm-breaking” behaviour exhibited during nine days of protests across the country since the death of 22-year-old woman Mahsa Amini.

The counterprotests have carried religious symbolism in support of the theocratic establishment that came to power in 1979 following an Islamic revolution, as organisers claimed copies of the Quran and Iranian flags had been burned during the protests.

Government supporters have also denounced what they perceive as foreign intervention in Iran’s affairs, especially by the United States – which has supported the protests and earlier this week said it would make an exception to its comprehensive sanctions regime against Iran to alleviate internet disruptions.

State-organised gatherings have always enjoyed full support from police and security forces and are widely covered by state television and media. Anti-government protests, during which demonstrators often chant slogans against the establishment and its leaders, are not sanctioned and are dispersed by security forces.

The latest pro-government gathering on Sunday comes as President Ebrahim Raisi and other authorities have promised to “deal decisively with those who oppose the country’s security and tranquillity”.

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2022/9/25/iran-organises-counter-demonstrations-as-protests-continue — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sahar Karimy (talk • contribs) 02:14, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

False source date

Source date are all edited false 25 sep 26 sep Baratiiman (talk) 03:47, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

List of names casualties

Is a list of casualties with their names really necessary? Almost every one of them is not notable. I’m pretty sure this is even against WP policies like WP:BLP. I know that mzny projects have a general consensus not to include such lists on articles detailing events with fatalities. Tvx1 13:26, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

I don't know if this is against policy or not, but it seems that if the number of those killed becomes great enough, that it would merit its own article: "List of those killed during the Mahsa Amini protests" or something like that. Cheers. 98.155.8.5 (talk) 19:26, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

So, turns out this has been done before: List of victims of November 2019 protests in Iran

Cheers! 98.155.8.5 (talk) 08:08, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

Addition of all of her names

Hey, so I added in the header all of the names that she was known by from the Death of Mahsa Amini page, along with the written form of them in the respective languages. From my understanding that article has reached a consensus to keep all forms in the article but use "Mahsa Amini" as primary. If this is incorrect let me know thanks. Leaky.Solar (talk) 14:05, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

This information can be found on Mehsa's obituary page, which includes a sort of biography. There is no need to add all his names and.... on this page. This information is not helpful, even annoying, because it has nothing to do with the topic of the article Mitrayasna (talk) 16:59, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

@Mitrayasna: Her Kurdish name is ... annoying? Excuse me? 98.155.8.5 (talk) 18:32, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

His Kurdish name is very beautiful, just like his brother's name is beautiful, but this page is not related to his biography, there is this additional information on the death page of Mahsa Amini. Mitrayasna (talk) 18:43, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

It's okay to have it in both places, eh? 98.155.8.5 (talk) 18:44, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

I think there should be an agreement on this matter first, then your content will be added

You must understand that this page is not his biography. The content you want to add has nothing to do with our discussion and this information does not help English speakers, it just makes this article ugly and unreadable.

On Mahsa Amini's death page, impartial people removed his second name from the list for the same reason as I said above. But since there is no page of Mehsa Amini, his second name and... are still in the text of that page. That page is very different from the page protesting Ishlan's murder.

Also, in similar cases, Misplaced Pages does not have a process that edits you, and only their official or well-known names appear on pages other than their biographies.

Mitrayasna (talk) 19:05, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

@Leaky.Solar: Mitrayasna, I'm an English speaker, and I appreciate being able to know her Kurdish name. Why obscure or hide her name or ethnic background? Saying it makes the article "ugly and undreadable" is a subjective opinion, your own opinion only, and seems like a disingenuous argument, since you were against it being placed on the other article as well. Also, please stop referring to her as a guy, I'm not sure why you repeatedly misgender her.

You've also broken the 3RR by removing this content a total of 4 times in the past few hours. This can sometimes result in a temporary block/ban. Cheers! 98.155.8.5 (talk) 19:24, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

This is not the case at all. We agreed on the page of Mehsa Amini's murder that his second name should be mentioned because it is related to his biography. This page has nothing to do with his biography. Non-Latin fonts cannot help English speakers much Mitrayasna (talk) 19:29, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

Again, that's not true at all. Why are you making this decision for all English speakers? I'm an English speaker, I find that it could be helpful when looking for news in other languages to do a search based on her Persian or Kurdish name, and to be able to do machine translations of that info. I think it's also useful to have more complete information.

What is your argument against mentioning the fact that she is Kurdish then, exactly? Because you removed that info too, without any explanation. Cheers. 98.155.8.5 (talk) 19:44, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

My final words are that this page is not his biography, and our agreement to add the second name and its fonts is specific to the page of Mehsa Amini's murder, and if it is to be done on this page as well, there must be a consensus. Mitrayasna (talk) 19:39, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi @Mitrayasna would my confusion about all of this is why include only the Persian translation of her name on this page, as in your argument it is not a biography page about her, wouldn't that mean that all non-english versions of her name be not included as well. Personally I think that would limit the individuals understanding of her identity. If you want to reach a consensus again that's fine, but I think unneeded as the information was already agreed upon on another page.

Also as a more personal question, its my understanding that Mehsa is a woman is there a reason you are using "he/him" pronouns to discuss her name, honestly curious if its a translation thing. Leaky.Solar (talk) 19:43, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

This page is focused on the demonstrations, not Mehsa Amini. The content you are looking for is still available on the Mehsa Amini murder page. I should also mention that this page is a candidate to redirect to the September 2022 protests page Mitrayasna (talk) 19:46, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

Agreed about the point of identity. Mitrayasna doesn't seem to want to mention the fact that the woman who was murdered is Kurdish, for some reason, or so it would appear. I don't really understand regional politics, but it seems like the right thing to do to mention her ethnic background. Cheers. 98.155.8.5 (talk) 19:47, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

You are mixing the two pages of Mehsa Amiri's murder and the demonstrations against Mehsa Amiri's murder together. This is not useful. Whatever you want to know about Mahsa Amiri, you should go to the page of Mehsa Amiri's murder, which covers both his murder and his biography. This page is about the mass demonstrations after his murder, which is about separation. Mitrayasna (talk) 19:49, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

Would the information be better then represented in the Background section which is a blurb about the reason as too why the mass demonstrations erupted then? To limit the inclusion of all of names seems to cheapen the understanding of her as a person to the reader. I personally think that the inclusion of all of her names shows the cultural spread of the demonstrations and you can't guarantee that the reader will have the time/want to read both articles. Leaky.Solar (talk) 19:54, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

Agreed. It's okay to offer some background and details in this article as well. There is no guarantee that someone will read both articles. Cheers! 98.155.8.5 (talk) 19:56, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

It is not necessary that there is a Persian death of her name

At the very beginning, there was a Farsi font of his name, then someone added the local font of Mehsa's second name, which I canceled several times. But I really don't agree that there should be a Persian font because it doesn't help Mitrayasna (talk) 20:02, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

"Iranian Revolution 2022" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Iranian Revolution 2022 and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Misplaced Pages:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 September 26#Iranian Revolution 2022 until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. QueenofBithynia (talk) 19:17, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

changing the day-by-day format to a overview format

These protests have been happening for 11 days. adding information for each day of protests is clogging up space. I propose we change this to a few paragraphs of information which will be added onto for however long these protests last. Manumaker08 (talk) 17:45, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

Yep, that was gonna happen eventually. I think dividing the sub-sections by themes would be best. -- Ideophagous (talk) 18:16, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

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