| Revision as of 14:40, 25 October 2022 editWolfquack (talk | contribs)385 edits →Maybe put in Christian Novels category: ReplyTag: Reply← Previous edit |
Revision as of 00:09, 27 October 2022 edit undoLowercase sigmabot III (talk | contribs)Bots, Template editors2,302,431 editsm Archiving 2 discussion(s) to Talk:The Lord of the Rings/Archive 9) (botNext edit → |
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== Set in prehistory, really? == |
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{{ping|Chiswick Chap}} "Prehistory" being defined as "before the existence of writing", neither ''The Hobbit'' nor ''The Lord of the Rings'' are set in prehistory, since Bilbo and later Frodo were writing a journal of their adventures, which ended up as the ''Red Book of Westmarch''. Other written documents, and the writing on the Ring, are also essential to the intrigue. — ] (]) 14:18, 5 May 2022 (UTC) |
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:: Fictional history, maybe, but long before any real writing system was invented anywhere in the world. ] (]) 14:31, 5 May 2022 (UTC) |
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::As CC says, the stories of Middle-Earth are set in a fictional pre-history before writing was reinvented to remember the old stories.] (]) 15:04, 5 May 2022 (UTC) |
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::: Hm, within the LOTR universe, the author of the books we can read is supposed to have been able to lay hands on a copy of the ''Red Book'', but also to have translated it into English. We aren't told how he could translate it, but what was written in it. Now my question is this: now that, thanks to the Rosetta stone, Egyptian hieroglyphs can be read, does the period they cover really qualify as "prehistory"? Similarly, Linear B was long an ununderstandable gobbledygook, until it was found that it was an archaic form of Greek, separated from Hesiod and Homer by a long period during which the Greeks had lost the knowledge of writing. I wouldn't call the time of Linear B "a pre-history before writing was reinvented". Rather, I would call both Egyptian hieroglyphs and Linear B as text writings making their periods "historic" even if the art of writing was later lost and then reinvented from a different source. Linear A, OTOH, seems to be text but we can't (yet) decipher it so whether to regard it as "history" depends on how we define "history". That's why I insisted above on JRRT's supposed role as "translator" of the ''Red Book''. What I mean is that the LOTR stories are set in a universe which we call fictional, but which taken at face value (in its own so-we-say-fictional universe) was certainly historic and can be understood. When we ask what is the time (some novel) ''was set in'', I understand at what time is the novel supposed to happen according to its internal time scale. — ] (]) 04:18, 10 May 2022 (UTC) |
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:::: Ah, we're all going wrong here by arguing within the domain and by analogy, i.e. we're falling foul of ], stating our own opinions (]) rather than going by the wealth of cited sources. I'll remove the word "prehistoric" now, and stick with the unarguable "distant past". Actually we have good scholarly authority for "pre-Christian" also, it would clarify things for many folks. ] (]) 07:38, 10 May 2022 (UTC) |
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:::::Is "'And All the Days of Her Life Are Forgotten': The Lord of the Rings as Mythic Prehistory" by John D. Rateliff a good enough source?] (]) 08:40, 10 May 2022 (UTC) |
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:::::: Ah, of course. Impeccable. ] (]) 14:42, 10 May 2022 (UTC) |
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== The Last Ringbearer == |
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In “Legacy > Influence on fantasy” there is a minimal reference/link to The Last Ringbearer. I think there needs to be a short description of this book here (maybe 3-4 short sentences?), in part because it is easily the most original “alternate interpretation” of the LotR in existence, and in part because it was written in Russia by a Russian, which gives it a completely different flavor than Western adaptations. ] (]) 20:46, 16 June 2022 (UTC) |
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== "Gandalf proves that Frodo's Ring is..." == |
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== "Gandalf proves that Frodo's Ring is..." == |
The caption under the photo of the One Ring with its inscription glowing is so strange that I cannot figure out what the author was trying to say. If I could make sense of it, I'd clean it up. Perhaps someone who does understand it can do that? Jyg (talk) 23:07, 26 June 2022 (UTC)
Thanks. The summary of the narrative is shared with the three articles on the individual volumes, which have their own, unshared, reception sections. Chiswick Chap (talk) 03:35, 27 June 2022 (UTC)
JRR Tolkien said himself that The Lord of the Rings was a catholic/christian work, so should we maybe put “Christian Novels” in the category section? Thoughts. Wolfquack (talk) 01:37, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
