Talk:Hồng Bàng dynasty: Difference between revisions

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Revision as of 05:03, 4 June 2023 editQiushufang (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users28,052 edits →Information ← Previous edit		Revision as of 05:05, 4 June 2023 edit undoDaeva Trạc (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users716 edits →Information: ReplyTags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit Reply Next edit →
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	:None of this negates ] and ]. There are no reliable sources at all so there is nothing to debate when it comes to neutrality or bias. ] (]) 05:03, 4 June 2023 (UTC)		:None of this negates ] and ]. There are no reliable sources at all so there is nothing to debate when it comes to neutrality or bias. ] (]) 05:03, 4 June 2023 (UTC)
			::See and as an example. You can use gg translation or I can help you with that.— ] (]) 05:05, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

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The contents of the Văn Lang page were merged into Hồng Bàng dynasty on 27 May 2020. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page.

Hong Bang etymology

Hong Bang is not a dynasty. It is a period of time. I'm not sure but seems like "Hong Bang" was named by historians later, not a existent during its own time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sophisticate20 (talk • contribs) 08:22, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Legends and recorded materials

Should the article focus more on the legendary dates (ex. beginnings in 28th century BC) or recorded dates of Van Lang in the Viet Su Luoc history book of the Tran dynasty? (which mentioned Van Lang's creation in the 7th century BC) A summarized English excerpt of Viet Su Luoc on Van Lang and the Hong Bang dynasty can be found here.

Manofedit2 (talk) 03:20, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

This article seems to take the old legends awfully seriously, with the kings that lived for 700 years and so forth. Kauffner (talk) 13:50, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

And was it truly a Dynasty? I though it is only an Age (Thời) with full of legends, gods?--Amore Mio (talk) 03:25, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Come on, most of the "historical data" presented in this article is utter rubbish - vietnamese writing systems invented in 3000 BC? Kings that rule for 250 years? I would absolutely love to delete that ridiculous list of rulers, but as a new editor without an account, I would propably only get banned and this joke of an article would simply get restored. So, could someone else do it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.23.64.51 (talk) 13:16, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

You are right about the writing systems. No historians in Vietnam dare to confirm them (they think that it was existed but there are no supporting evidences).

About the list of kings. According to a VNese scholar, a title might be shared by many rulers so you can see a king who was 250 years-old.

This article need to be explained. Even Vietnamese historians doubt that Hồng Bàng Dynasty are really existed so that when describing Hong Bang Dynasty, they always make footnotes which said "this might not be true" or "this section might be a legend".--Amore Mio 17:37, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Re-write recommendation

This article is full of mangled English and legends confused with history. Not the least of its problems are that section headings don't always seem to have anything to do with the section text (such as the "Creation" paragraph). It really needs to be re-written by someone knowledgeable in the field such that it can be properly cited and worded. Cerowyn (talk) 01:15, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

BEMIS AVE UPTOWN #ALLDAWAY #NiMeanIt  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.235.89.98 (talk) 15:18, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

You should also know that this article seems to have been lifted wholesale from VietVisionTravel's page on the "Hong Bang dynasty". I would have included a direct link, but apparently the website is on Misplaced Pages's spam blacklist. I found it easily enough though, by googling Hong Bang dynasty. It was the second result. --Emishi (talk) 17:08, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Nguyen dynasty which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 09:43, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

External links modified

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External links modified

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Silk production

On April 1, 2013, someone claimed that Vietnam knew how to produce silk since 2000 BCE. In a later article, the same author stated that it was known in Ly dynasty 1700-1600 BCE. Both of these edits (to articles on viet myths!) are sourced with a quote supposedly from the Book of Han. That book has several dozen volumes (impossible to look up quickly) and was written 1500 or even 1800 years after the alleged fact in a time when there was no possibility of scientific verification of the claim.

That's reason enough for me to delete this dubious statement in both articles. --Enyavar (talk) 16:47, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

tribal states?

how are "tribal states", as distinct from others, definded? for some ethnologists this sounds like a contradiction in itself or a mixing of two different developmental stages with one skipped... (comp. "band" > "tribe" > "chiefdom" > state" according to Elman Service). elsewhere the social organisation of that time is described as "tribal federation". so please could you say more about that? was a describable development von independent tribes to losely confedereated ones and finally firmly and formalized federated ones, this stage being defined as state? thanks! HilmarHansWerner (talk) 00:59, 12 February 2020 (UTC)

Federal? You don't know about Vietnamese history right? There was no alliance with the Vietnamese tribes... Except the Xích Quỷ Army Alliance against the Xia Dynasty... But it disbanded after the Great War of Hong Bang. Kendy Windlyrin Childy (talk) 08:55, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

Information

@Qiushufang, I have stated before, but I am doing it again.
So first, the map. The nation (Xich Quy-Van Lang) itself was a myth, a legendary entity. We don’t know how many truth it has, but if Misplaced Pages is all about “neutral” and “try not to be biased on selecting information”, then why try to delete anything? The maps are based on outside-nonWiki sites, and so does the article about this mythical kingdom. And if you need information of the territories, then Lĩnh Nam chích quái stated: “Âu Cơ và năm mươi con về ở đất Phong Hiệp (Nay là huyện Bạch Hạc), cùng nhau tôn người con cả lên làm vua, hiệu là Hùng Vương, lấy tên nước là Văn Lang, đông giáp Nam Hải, tây tới Ba Thục, bắc tới Động Đình hồ, nam tới nước Hồ Tôn (nay là Chiêm Thành).” meaning “Au Co and fifty children returned to the land of Phong Hiep (now Bach Hac district), together made their eldest son as king, named Hung Vuong, taking the country's name Van Lang, bordering South China Sea to the east, and Ba Thuc to the west, north to Dongting Lake, south to Ho Ton country (now Champa)”
Secondly, the name. The main name for the infobox should be both Xich Quy and Van Lang as in this edit considered that the Hồng Bàng dynasty did change the country name through its rules (again, legendary). Not sure why did you delete that?
End until we have another debate.

— Daeva Trạc (talk) 04:53, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

None of this negates WP:UGC and WP:RS. There are no reliable sources at all so there is nothing to debate when it comes to neutrality or bias. Qiushufang (talk) 05:03, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

See 1 and 2 as an example. You can use gg translation or I can help you with that.— Daeva Trạc (talk) 05:05, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

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