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Archives

User talk:PHG/Archives1
User talk:PHG/Archives2

Digha Nikaya on Buddha's antropomorphic representation

Hello, I asked for a reference in the Graeco-buddhism article, but you just undid my change. I searched in the Digha Nikaya for such thing and never found it. Please say where in the Digha Nikaya the Buddha has warned against his representation after his death, or at least refer to who said so.

Yokosuka

Hi. Do you have the name of the photographer and/or the source of the Yokosuka Shipyards photo in this article? I'd like to compare with a similar panorama that I have access to. Thanks for any help. Pinkville 20:21, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi again, Just wondering if you could tell me where you found the above-linked image of Yokosuka? I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks. Pinkville 15:27, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Kujula Kadphises and Anxi

Hi PHG! I totally agree with you that Anxi in Chinese usually refers to Arsacid "Parthia." However, we have no evidence of Kujula invading "Parthia Proper" but lots of evidence of him conquering much if not all of "Indo-Parthia," and it is descriptions of the conquest of these territories which we find detailed in the Hou Hanshu. These are the reasons why I have interpreted Anxi in this passage as "Indo-Parthia." I will, therefore, change it back to Indo-Parthia. However, if you are still not happy about this please leave a note on my Discussion page and we can talk about it further. John Hill 05:39, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi! It is a good compromise you have suggested on my Discussion page - thanks. I will add in brackets after Anxi: (commonly used for Parthia but thought to indicate Indo-Parthia here). Cheers John Hill 06:12, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Boshin War

Congratulations on the article getting featured! There are few loose ends I think need tying up, see the talk page, but great job!--Monocrat 02:38, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Image:GBAMap.jpg

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This might interest you

While thinking of people who might be interested in or have suggestions with regard to this idea, I recalled the excellent work you did on indo-Greek Kingdom. I'd encourage you to take a look at the idea, see if it interests you, and make any suggestions you might have. Thanks, --Robth 03:23, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Image:LaRochelletowers.png listed for deletion

An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, Image:LaRochelletowers.png, has been listed at Misplaced Pages:Images and media for deletion. Please look there to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in its not being deleted. Thank you. —Nv8200p talk 14:23, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Did you know?

On 30 November, 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Dupetit Thouars, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

--GeeJo ⁄_(c) • 01:13, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Concern about the Kanishka article

Dear PHG: I am writing to you as I have noticed that you have written a number of excellent, well-researched articles on early Indian history, Buddhism, the Kushans, etc., and have also made significant contributions to the article on Kanishka.

I would like to ask for advice about what to do regarding what I believe is happening on the Kanishka page. It seems a couple of Jat writers are promoting a very Jat-oriented view of Indian history and have been making (what I believe are unsupportable) claims that many famous Indian kings (including Chandragupta Maurya, Ashok Maurya, Samudragupta, Chandragupta II, Kanishka, Yasodharman, and Harshavardhana, among others) were all Jats.

I have had several run-ins with a couple of them on the Jat Discussion page but have found it pointless trying to argue with them as they continually make references to books written by Jat "historians" quoting their statements as "facts" that I am unable to verify, and challenging me to "prove" that such and such a king was NOT a Jat. Apparently, if I am unable to do this I am expected to just accept their Jat-oriented "historical traditions" as established "fact."

I have tried to point out (see my notes in the Jat Discussion page archives) the differences between traditions and facts but logic seems to have little effect on these people who, in my view, approach "history" from the standpoint of "true believers."

They have added a whole section called "The clan of Kanishka" to the article on Kanishka and I (at least) believe it makes a mockery of the careful reconstruction of the history of Kanishka and the Kushans which has been assembled over the last couple of centuries by a wide range of distinguished scholars.

Sections like this, with questionable traditions and beliefs presented as factual is one of the main things that brings criticism of the Misplaced Pages (and, indeed, modern historical scholarship in general) into disrepute and gives it a reputation as an untrustworthy source.

I believe this matter should probably be put to some form of arbitration with neutral editors. I have been trying to discover how to initiate such a process but have been unable to do so.

I would be most grateful indeed if you could please advise me what I should do next.

Many thanks, John Hill 10:38, 1 December 2006 (UTC) PS If you wish to write to me off-line you can email me at: wynhill@bigpond.com

Dear PHG:: I have just cleaned up the Kanishka page a bit and removed the section on Kanishka's clan which contained the claims about him being a Jat. So, please don't bother answering this - I will let things sit for a while and see what happens. If there is more controversy I will let you know. Cheers, John Hill 04:42, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the Greeting

PHG,

Thanks for the greeting. I hope you didn't find my sabbatical to be too disconcerting, as we've certainly had quite the repartee over the past year. In any event, seems like you've been fairly productive. As you know, I fully respect the efforts to maintain and augment valid material, but as I've affirmed numerous times, I do take issue with rather far-fetched and one-sided reconstructions. I was a little disappointed to see the consensus map, on which you and Vastu worked so hard to engender, disappear. It didn't even appear as if there was some discussion preceding it. As we both know, a greek invasion of the gangetic is far from gospel and has been subject to intense debate. In fact, one of the main authorities on the Indo greeks, A.K. Narain, has actually noted that Menander may simply have joined the kings of Panchala and Mathura on a raid down the Ganga. And the hathigumpha inscription itself remains an uncertain source as Kharavela's reign has been linked to centuries before and after the start of the common era and the word dimi has also been read as vima (as in vima kadphises, who I know you are familiar with). As for the Yuga Purana and MBH citations, those interpretations by Michener have been contested by other authorities such as Kak et al. I have not problem positing those theories, alongside others, but I do believe they need to be qualified. I am not alone in this opinion, and have respected our previous accords, as seen with the Ashoka debate.

As always, I respect your time and work on these pages and am willing to cooperate with you on compromise phrasing if you are so inclined.

Regards,

Devanampriya —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Devanampriya (talk • contribs) 01:05, 3 December 2006 (UTC).

PHG,

Working on them. I will let you know when they come in through the mail. It definitely is a very interesting aspect of this period. As per your question, Kharavela remains a rather enigmatic figure ever since they found the hathigumpha inscription 2 centuries ago. He hasn't been concretely fixed to an era. The earliest date we have for him, I believe, is 125 BCE. This of course precludes the possibility of a conflict with Demetrius of Bactria, leaving one of his namesakes as a possibility. Accordingly, there are 3-4 Satakarnis, making a Satavahana reference point difficult. As I understand it, dates for his reign range from the late 2nd century BCE to the mid 2nd century CE. Bearing in mind our extended discussions on the term "yavana", you can recognize the tenuous nature of the hathigumpha inscription's status as evidence of greek campaigns to the east. Kushan campaigns, and indeed conquests, are well-established and well-attested, hence the increased likelihood of such a case. Nevertheless, as we both know, there is a great deal of discussion surrounding this (ranging from carbon-dating to script dating). It will be interesting to see if any progress on this topic is made in the Ivory Tower.

Regards,

Devanampriya

Image:MauryanMap.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:MauryanMap.jpg. I notice the 'image' page specifies that the image is being used under fair use, but its use in Misplaced Pages articles fails our first fair use criterion in that it illustrates a subject for which a freely licensed image could reasonably be found or created that provides substantially the same information. If you believe this image is not replaceable, please:

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Your article, Tillia tepe, was selected for DYK!

On December 21, 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Tillia tepe, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

Thanks for your contributions! ++Lar: t/c 15:16, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Sources on Mancio Ito

Hey, PHG, you will recall I've worked with you on Hasekura Tsunenaga, and Image:AsokaKandahar.jpg. Recently I was working on starting a more complete article on Hasekura for the Latin wikipedia (see Faxecura Rocuyemon), and the question of Mancio Ito came up. Essentiall I have been trying to find a good citation for what his name was in Latin: for Martinão Hara I found one souce that calls him Fara Martinus, so Mancio would presumably have been Ito Mancius or Itus Mancius, but until I find a source I can only speculate.

Interesting though this question is (at least to me), that is not why I am writing to you. Here's my real purpose: in my search for sources, I ended up downloading a half-dozen articles on the subject of the Tensho Mission. These articles contain a lot of information that would make valuable additions to Mancio Ito. Unfortunately, I don't have the time to devote to that article. So I was wondering if you would be interested in reading these articles yourself, and perhaps taking up the job of distilling them for wikipedia? If so, contact me by email. Thanks, Iustinus 18:06, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Image:SungaMap.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:SungaMap.jpg. I notice the 'image' page specifies that the image is being used under fair use, but its use in Misplaced Pages articles fails our first fair use criterion in that it illustrates a subject for which a freely licensed image could reasonably be found or created that provides substantially the same information. If you believe this image is not replaceable, please:

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Bhagabhadra

I've added the "{{prod}}" template to the article Bhagabhadra, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but I don't believe it satisfies Misplaced Pages's criteria for inclusion, and I've explained why in the deletion notice (see also "What Misplaced Pages is not" and Misplaced Pages's deletion policy). Please either work to improve the article if the topic is worthy of inclusion in Misplaced Pages, or, if you disagree with the notice, discuss the issues at Talk:Bhagabhadra. You may remove the deletion notice, and the article will not be deleted, but note that it may still be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached, or if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria. Oo7565 16:09, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

look great know keep it upOo7565 17:58, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Image tagging for Image:KairyuHideaway.jpg

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Image tagging for Image:Ta-Yuan.png

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Kushan Empire

Just thought you might like to know that Imperium Cossanum is currently the page of the month of la:. --Iustinus 14:10, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks! I confess that I am very proud: I really enjoyed writing that article.

On another subject, I never heard back from you about Mancio Ito. I take it then that you are not interested? Too bad. --Iustinus 20:52, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

The problem is that a lot of the articles require a subscription. Besides, as I didn't write down all the URLs, it woudl be a lot easier to email you the stuff, if you are amenable. As I said above, if you are OK with that you can reach me through the mail-to link. Otherwise, well... I guess we'll ahve to do it the long way. --Iustinus 07:23, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Mauryan Empire

I am concerned about the edit having Greek and Aramaic repeatedly removed. I have opened discussion in talk page with the user in question and I ask you to contribute. I would like to improve this article so that it achieves featured status so all pertinent information should be there. Rumpelstiltskin223 06:59, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Could you help me out with User:Devanampriya's continuous revert-warring in Mauryan Empire? I worked very hard to build the Template:Maurya Empire infobox and he still reverts it out of there because it contains Greek and Aramaic as languages of Mauryan Empire. I fully agree with you that they should be there because Ashoka wrote his edits in those languages also.Rumpelstiltskin223 23:36, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Sockpuppeting slander

PHG,

What the heck are you talking about? Before you bandy about such charges, why don't you do some real research on the actual article content. It's not even the same IP address. If some other fellow makes a change, what does it have to do with me? Why don't you spend less time on conspiracy theories, which you seem more interested in focusing on, and more time on doing real research. Indeed, your behavior is becoming increasingly unseemly. Put a sock in it.

Regards,

Devanampriya

Umm yeah, but I have no control over family members who were irritated by the map, aren't regular contributors, and made changes on their own with my internet connection. If that was my plan, PHG, sock puppeting would be going on as we speak and with greater frequency and impact. But it's not, and as you very well know, I've been using the same account for over a year, arguing the same old points, all while respecting the 3RR rule. So why don't you focus back on the issues, especially since you violate some of the very rules you argue for. i.e making changes on the article page instead of posting it on discussion first, which is what set this edit-war off in the first place.

You chided windy city dude for uploading his map directly, but did not consult other indo greek article editors when you put up your revised menander map directly onto the page.

So correct yourself instead of accusing others, and let's focus on the issues...

Devanampriya

PHG,

  Can the manufactured outrage. While I realized that many of your abilities come into question due to the quality of your wikipedia scholarship, I didn't realize that reading comprehension was one of them. So let me put it in more simple terms for your benefit:

-More than one person uses that internet connection -Unlike you who simply parrots opinions without digesting relevant facts from others, I discussed the edit war with family members to see what they thought. -Concurring with me, one of them wanted to take a look, and then decided to make a one time change (hence the IP address and the comment marked only as RV) without signing on with my name. -That occurred only once--hardly a case of sockpuppeting

"Why should I argue with a dishonest editor?". I ask myself the same question I attempt to discuss with you and reach a compromise that provides readers with a more accurate article. But your reliance on Tarn's poor interpretation and speculation smacks of bias like no other. There is a reason why yours is the only map that aggrandizes the indo-greeks' domains--there's no proof. There's no archaelogical evidence, no complete historiography, nothing. So why do you persist in prevaricating?

"See for a while how it feels"? To whom? That page is not your personal fiefdom to be ruled at your caprice. Moroever, you didn't even deign to get the opinion of others. You just went ahead and posted the map. Talk about hypocrisy. Other contributors have to kowtow to you and your biases while you change maps and violate agreements at your whim. That is the height of arrogance. This is meant to be an article that accurately displays history for the benefit of its readers, not a vanity page for your Indo-Greek fantasies.

You cry obsolescence but you use Tarn, whose work dates back to the 30s You talk about proof but furnish none You feign agreement, only to violate consensus when it is convenient You accuse others of pov-pushing in order to couch your philhellenism You accuse others of lying, when you are guilty of it in its vilest form

It is you who is dishonest and untrustworthy. What a shame for wikipedia...

Devanampriya

Taxila map

Hi, I just saw the map you added to the Taxila page. Did you create the map yourself? If so, is it possible to change a label in it? It has Greek names for most cities and rivers; however, the mountain range labeled "Hindu-Kush," a term that wasn't used until the 13 century CE. Alexander's name for it was "Kaukasos Indikos" (latinzed later to Caucasus Indicus). Can it be changed? Fowler&fowler«Talk» 19:38, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks! Fowler&fowler«Talk» 21:07, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Indo-Greek Map

Hi PHG, could you please give me a list of sources (i.e. the books used) for your Indo-Greek map, as it stands I do think your map should remain though I would just like to see the sources for my self to make sure, the arguements used against it seem very weak with an ulterior motive (i.e. out of xenophobia and anti-European sentiment) Plus I don't think Narain should be considered as a reliable source in comparison with Tarn (Eurocentric? Oh come on, Europeans are generally apathetic towards each other), Busagali as he is Indian himself during an anti-colonial, xenophobic and patriotic era. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Giani g (talk • contribs) 21:33, 16 January 2007 (UTC).

Hi again PHG, I think you should check with the Indo-Greek talk page, apparantly Narain is more generous than you have been, it's rather ironic considering "everyone" by which I mean Devan and his legion of xenophobes have tried to use Narain to decimate your articles. Hopefullly this "new discovery" by which I mean actual homework/research will help progress the article which has remained stagnent for quite a while since the protection has been added. (] 05:28, 4 March 2007 (UTC))

Your exchange with Devanampriya

While I dislike writing this message, for the vastity and quality of your contributions and the calm and politeness you generally display, in this occasion I feel you're behaviour has not fully conformed to WP:CIV. While I understand that Devanampriya can be extremely vexing this is not good reason for awnsering him in the same way. If you feel you can't cope anymore with Devanampriya's behaviour, then bring the issue before the WP:AN/I, or, better still, file a WP:RfC against him, but please, don't awnser that way. Have care, Aldux 15:33, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

History of Buddhism

I feel that the article History of Buddhism no longer exemplifies the featured article standard on Misplaced Pages. I have mentioned some reasons on the article's talk page. I am contacting you because you were the original nominator of this article. I hope that you or someone else can make the necessary improvements to the article. If not, I will have to take it to WP:FAR. Feel free to contact me on my talk page for any further info. --Danaman5 06:41, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Sculpture in India

Your help in improving this article will be highly appreciated. Regards, deeptrivia (talk) 18:28, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Added your name to the Cartographers's list

I've added your name, and a link to your gallery, to Misplaced Pages:Wikipedians/Cartographers. --DelftUser 10:32, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Kharavela inscription - feel free to delete

Hi PHG! Here's Mark Passehl's post on Hellenistica Yahoo group about the Kharavela inscription. Sponsianus 13:21, 25 January 2007 (UTC) Dear Group,

There is a problem with the name of the Indo-Greek (yavana) king chased back to Mathura by Khâravela, the great king of Kalinga and patron of Jainism responsible for the Hâthîgumphâ inscription. The distinguished Indian numismatist P.L.Gupta put it this way (_Kus.ân.a Coins and History_, D.K.Printworld, 1994, p.184, note 5; reprint of a 1985 article):

"The Hâthîgumphâ inscription refers in line 8 to a yavana-râja, who fled to Mathura when he realized the might of Khâravela. The name of the yavana-râja bears three letters, of which the second letter may be fairly read as ma or mi. It has been doubtfully restored as Dimita, meaning Demetrius the Indo-Greek king. But as early as 1951, I thought it to be Vimaka, meaning Vima Kadphises. The Patna Museum has a plaster cast of this inscription, which I personally examined when I was there as Curator. It confirms my suggestion."

Perhaps a case of Dr.Gupta seeing what he wished to see. The stated facts are that the name consists of three letters, of which the second is mi or ma, and that the king is categorized as yavana, not koshana or tukhara, nor saka or pahlava. Although it is possible that a Kushan king might have been referred to as a yavana and the personal name Vema/Vima expanded to Vimaka, both assumptions seem to be forcing the evidence to fit the theory. Moreover there are palaeographic problems with dating the Hâthîgumphâ text so late as Wema Kadphises (reigned 90s-110s CE). Many Indic script specialists seem to prefer the 1st century BC, or approximately contemporary with the Sanchi inscriptions from the reign of the Satavahana Satakarni I.

The only serious Indo-Greek candidate reigned near the beginning of the 1st century BC, some two centuries before Wema Kadphises, but well after the collapse of Mauryan power and also beyond the floruit of their S'unga successors. So an appropriate "window of opportunity" for the king from Orissa to have taken Patna and advanced up the Ganges and Yamuna close to Mathura.

The Indo-Greeks did not pass beyond the E.Punjab into the upper Yamuna valley until the reign of Menandros (ca.148-133 BC), and the last "Bactrian" king Demetrios, Demetrios III, belongs inside or very shortly after the reign of Menandros and certainly did not rule in Indic lands as he didn't strike any bilingual coinage (his types and their barbarous imitations tie him closely to the reign of Heliokles I and, like the latter, north of the Hindu Kush). Among the kings who post-date Menandros and certainly or probably did rule along the upper Yamuna and at Mathura (as evidenced by the Sonipat hoard) there is one (and only one) whose name matches the requirements of the Hâthîgumphâ text, line 8. The kharoshthi rendering of Amyntas' name on his bilingual coinage is: Amitasa (A-mi-ta-sa) in the genitive, i.e. nominative Amita. That is, three letters, with a middle mi too. So no need to force anything to match what survives in the Orissan text very well.

This needs to be considered when reconstructing the sequence and outline history of the various successors of Menandros.

Regards, Mark K.P.

SUBS SUNK WHERE?

CAN YOU TELL ME WHERE YOU GOT THIS INFORMATION ABOUT SUBS BEING SUNK OFF HAWAII.THEN THEY WERE SUNK OFF THE COAST OF JAPAN. CHECK DISCOVERY CHANNEL.COM ABOUT 400 CLASS SUBS AND OTHERS LIKE I-58. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by JRMAN (talk • contribs) 08:46, 29 January 2007 (UTC).

Ironclads: new discussion

Hello, PHG.

I have started a new discussion on the Ironclad warship Talk Page, called Neutrality needed, which has provoked some interesting responses. I hope that you will find it to be of interest.

Regards, John Moore 309 17:40, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

More Classical names

PHG, my work on translating your map is almost done. Obviously finding Greco-Latin names for all the places listed would be impossible, but I have gotten a significant percentage. Is there any chance you would know of a locus classicus for any of the following placenames?

• Ferghana
• Kashgar
• Surkh Kotal/Rabatak
• Saketa
• Vidisa
• Champa
• Pratishthana
• Amaravati
• Kucha
• Turfan

On a similar note, Kuninda Kingdom says that "he Greek historian Ptolemy linked the origin of the Kuninda to the country where the rivers Ganges, Yamuna, and Beas originate", but I cannot find this passage. I put up a "specify" tag there and have had no luck. Since you have been doing such a good job of answering my "specify" requests, do you know this one?

Thanks again, Iustinus 02:30, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Buddhist art up for featured article review

Buddhist art has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. Green451 18:39, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Deletion of Sunga Map

It was not my intention to delete the map. I have made my edit while maintaining the map.

Devanampriya 04:35, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the welcome!

Hello PHG! I too have been an admirer of your many contributions to Misplaced Pages. Thank you for your hard work and offering of your knowledge to the world community! I am still a novice on Misplaced Pages; for example, I'm not sure if this is the correct way to respond to your friendly message, nor am I sure how exactly to sign. I will slowly learn, and am of course very willing to be taught! As for the CoinIndia website, yes, indeed, I am the author of that, and I have always been willing for photographs from the site to be uploaded to Misplaced Pages. Do you serve as an adopter? All the best, CoinIndia 11:54, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

I guess you pre-empted me, as I was going to author some material on the Paratarajas, perhaps linking to the existing entry for the Paradas. But I will bow to your seniority, and will look with interest at your article.

Re the photos, I looked at the GDFL license information, and I'm a little reluctant to simply post the photos in the public domain. Could you upload photos as you have done from my site in the past, with a link to the source and saying I have granted permission for use on Misplaced Pages but retain all other copyright? The GDFL license seems to make the photos fair game for anyone and for whatever use they want to put them. All the best, CoinIndia 21:46, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

OK, thanks, I will write up something within the next few days. I am working on a new paper on the Paratarajas, so now is the time to do it. I want to ask your advice about something though. The "Paratarajas" are of course the rulers of the Parata people, so I am wondering if the entry should be under Paratas with perhaps a redirecting link from Paratarajas, since that has (I hope temporarily) become the name by which people refer to them. Further, in the Sanskrit sources, these people are known as the Paradas, so should the new information be there instead, with redirecting links from Paratas and Paratarajas? What do you think?

On a separate matter, since you are knowledgeable about Buddhist art, I have uploaded a photograph of an Avalokitesvara I took last summer at the British Museum. You can see it on my user page. What struck me about this statue is that the topknot has been shaped in such a way that it looks like the glans of a penis! I wonder if this is something that has perhaps been noted or seen elsewhere. CoinIndia 13:14, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Hephthalites

The Hephthalites dynasties are certainly part of the "History of Greater Iran". Their headquarters were in what is now Afghanistan, and for over a century they became the main enemy of the Sassanids, sometimes even conquering Herat and going as far as Kerman. See the Encyclopaedia Iranica for more details (especially the articles written by Richard Nelson Frye). It was not until Khusraw Anushirvan that the Persians managed to destroy the Hephthalites, annexing most of their lands. Since the region of modern Afghanistan - by definition - is the eastern part of ancient Iran, then the template "History of Greater Iran" is very relevant. Not only this template, but also the template "History of India". Tājik 11:33, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi brother . at last you found your motherland and origin. Great work.

From Vishal Prakash Dudhane. Viswhal1976 ( Now blocked by Maratha vandalist ). See also Maratha and Maratha Clan System.

I remember long time ago when i watching T.V i saw a footeage that showed a local Java , Philipience or what , i dont remember , but it showed two gropes of several horse rider men haveing juvinial wepon in hands and throwing and fightin each other at a grownd and werein Maratha type hats. Also the horses , Bulls , Men and ther costume seem to me very familiar. I gotta a missing link their. Congrajulations brother. You have achived great work.

Republic of Ezo

Please double check the references! The independent "Republic of Ezo" was set up on Meiji 1, December 15 (1/27/1869). Seven 08:12, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Gondophares crest

Hi Parthian Shot. Would you have a reference for the "Crest of Gondophares according to Iranian sources". Do you know what are the Iranian sources in question? Regards PHG 08:29, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Hi. Sure -- I'm going to add it to the text. PS. your artworks are great – very impressive. Regards. ← ← Parthian Shot (Talk) 08:38, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

2003 figures

So are you going to update the 2003 figures or not? I will have a go if you don't, but then I wouldn't be sure of the accuracy. John Smith's 12:41, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm hardly bullying you. I asked a question which I had already asked and you have not responded to. However I believe the 2003 figures are better to use. If you wish to discuss the matter further please use the Japan talk page. John Smith's 14:13, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Antiochus IV

The prophecy in Daniel about Antiochus is an example of vaticinum ex eventu. Daniel is known, in the form we have it, to have been written pseudepigraphically in the 2nd century BC (the Aramaic middle chapters may be a century or so earlier) during Antiochus' persecution of the Jews 1, 2, 3 (also see Encarta, Albertz 1988, Dever 2001, the Jerusalem Bible's introduction, probably any introductory textbook to biblical studies); I took out the reference to the prophecy because 1) saying there is a mysterious prophecy that some believe refers to Antiochus is misleading; the prophecy does refer to him, because it was written during his reign retroactively, and 2) stating this in the article will generate an edit war with evangelicals, which is bad for the quality of the article. Therefore, since it is a peripheral detail, I believe it is best left out of the article; it is dealt with in the Book of Daniel article, which can be linked to the article on Antiochus.--Rob117 02:42, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Inadvertant Editing

Dear PHG, While editing the article to reduce empty spaces between the sections the whole article (Satavahanas) got changed. You may revert the changes to earlier versions. I made a change: Dravidian to Proto-Dravidian.Kumarrao 07:45, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

Could you please reduce the empty spaces between the sections in 'Satavahana' article?Kumarrao 09:44, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Image:MenanderCoin.jpg

Hi. Is it your work?--Vaya 12:48, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Weasel Words and Original Research

PHG,

It is original research because you are providing spin on an author's interpretations. When you discuss the successors to the Satavahanas, it is one thing to cite the author's quote and another to discuss what you believe the case to be--which is why I deleted it. Moreover, you have engaged in original research throughout your time on wikipedia from the indo greeks to the domains of the Indo Scythians (where is the published map or author whom you base this on) to the influence of names (Sikandar did gain circulation on the subcontinent because of Alexander's influence on India but because of Persianized Turks who conquered Northern India). Your errors and poor scholarship, ie the Huns and Pataliputra do not reflect well on the Encyclopedia.

Look, I have no desire to antagonize you nor to continue acrimonious debates, so please don't assume I am writing with a confrontational tone. As always, I have been seeking discussion and understanding in the aim of creating the most accurate entries possible. I have compromised before, i.e. the Mauryas and Seleucus' daughter. I would only hope you would do the same at some point. My edits are not designed to further some nationalist agenda (take a look at my edits: I have corrected claims of indian victories when they were defeats, I have cleaned up vandalism on Augustus' page, and have diluted baseless claims "satavahanas were the greatest power in Asia" etc,etc). However, Europeans classicists, as Frank W. Holt himself notes, have a habit of having it both ways and misrepresenting Indian history in a way that is overly favorable to foreigners, especially the greeks. Bear in mind that British Imperialists justified their rule of India by referencing previous invaders i.e. Indo Aryans, Greeks, etc. Many of your sources have been recognized to continue that tradition, hence the challenges. David Duke and Pim Fortyn can all by cited as verifiable sources, but that does not make them accurate or reliable. Hence, this is not vandalism.

However, weasel words do count as vandalism, and when you craft a one-sided narrative (i.e. greeks invading to protect buddhism rather than gain territory and wealth, the western satraps defending against the "rampaging" Satavahanas, etc) I am compelled to clean it up. Try to look at things from someone else's perspective; I seek to do that all the time. Perhaps you should do the same.

Devanampriya 18:04, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

There you go again, PHG. Instead of absorbing the feedback and perspectives of others, you go on the attack. Neither you nor anyone above wikipedia is above the law:

• The Indo Scythian map is not referenced. You are conducting original research in the application of Primary sources. No historian has ever advanced the claim of Scythian conquest of the entire Gangetic plain.
• I didn't comment yet on your Sunga map because it is erroneous to begin with. Instead of trying to develop a competing map, which knowing your recalcitrance you would have deleted without explanation, I've been looking around to find a professional, referenced map that we can use with permission
• Same with the Satavahana map (which you very recently posted, btw). I deleted lines stating that "the satavahanas were the most powerful force in asia", if the map is inaccurate and not properly reference, the same corollary applies. It seems to me that you are aware of your poor scholarship here and are merely seeking to counter-accuse.
• You have applied original research on the Chandragupta Maurya page where you use quotes from a play to mention the "powerful composite army". Original research and weasel words. Where are the recognized historians who state those words and back up those claims. Just for the record, you don't count as one.
• You routinely clog up articles with primary quotes, which negatively impact the readability of the article. I am not the only one who has noticed this. See the "Constantine" page. You then take these primary quotes and spin them to suit your preferred interpretation of events.
• This links up with the rapson quote. That quote is clearly unnecessary as there was already a section discussing the break up of the Satavahana empire. You only relished this quote because of the possibility of an Indo-Greek mention. There is no need for that section let alone Rapson's interpretation of what the Matsya purana could imply. Morevoer, no historian posits the claim that indo greeks formed some sort of successor state to the satavahanas. As I've told you repeatedly, the term Yavana is often synonymous with foreigner in general. As for irrelevant quotes, my policy doesn't just target your hellenocentric edits. I have requested users to remove the section on Vikramaditya's conquests in the Hunas section.
• This leads me again to the Yamuna article. Your drawn out sophistry on why Seleucus needs to be mentioned on the Yamuna page is an example of why I've been forced to delete your edits. Your very example "if someone reading about Alexander's campaigns reads that he didn't conquer the Yamuna, they will look it up and realize that the greek discovered it after Seleucus' campaigns" is eurocentric. These articles are to assume beginners of every background, nationality, and interest group, not just those who daydream about greek expansion. According to your logic, we should have a greek section for the China article due to the mention of the "seres" in western classical accounts. Moreover, that phrase is worded in such a way that users will think that Seleucus campaigned as far as the Yamuna, which is bunk.
• You used poor/biased sources to defend a claim that no historian has advanced, which is that the huns sacked Guptan Pataliputra. Your source was replete with spelling mistakes and contentious claims.
• You committed original research with your "Yavanajataka was the first indian treatise on astronomy" claim, your Greek influence on Indian coinage can be seen with the "Sikander Sani" claim on Delhi Sultanate coins. You are guilty of weasel words when you poison the narrative with such words as "rampaging Satavahanas".
• If you make erroneous claims, poorly sourced entries, and one-sided narratives, I have every right, and indeed it is my duty, to delete them.

I truly hope that you will consider mending your ways and taking the advice of a fellow contributor. Sadly, your track record does not reflect well in that department.

Devanampriya 00:26, 21 March 2007 (UTC)