| Revision as of 04:58, 26 November 2024 edit154.74.127.113 (talk) →Abu Yusuf and Abu Hafs Umar al-Murtada are named← Previous edit |
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:refer to my suggested edit bellow. I provided evidence from multiple sources that this is almohad sultan al-murtada ] (]) 01:38, 15 November 2024 (UTC) |
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:refer to my suggested edit bellow. I provided evidence from multiple sources that this is almohad sultan al-murtada ] (]) 01:38, 15 November 2024 (UTC) |
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::From the authors of "The ] are fake", "Moor is Blackmoor", "Let's ignore that in the Classical Antiquity Africa was Tunisia and little else, and that in medieval Europe an African was a Maghrebi Christian", "We can't see the pale Libyans in the ]", "Saint Maurice, Hannibal, Cleopatra VII, Septimius Severus and Queen Charlotte were black", "Orgasm with the XXV Dynasty", "West Africa was not part and parcel in the Transatlantic Slave Trade", "The evil Greeks stole the Black African Wisdom", "The evil Arab Muslims exterminated the OG Black North Africans, but for a weird reason the prevalent patrilineal and male-only Y-DNA haplogroup in North Africa is E1b1b (E-M81 clade) and not J1 like in Saudi Arabia", "] was Black" and "We apply a 100% USAmerican obsession with skin colour, race and pseudo-history to other lands and historical periods", now on our screens: "The Cantigas de Santa María are fake". ] (]) 09:45, 20 November 2024 (UTC) |
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::From the authors of "The ] are fake", "Moor is Blackmoor", "Let's ignore that in the Classical Antiquity Africa was Tunisia and little else, and that in medieval Europe an African was a Maghrebi Christian", "We can't see the pale Libyans in the ]", "Saint Maurice, Hannibal, Cleopatra VII, Septimius Severus and Queen Charlotte were black", "Orgasm with the XXV Dynasty", "West Africa was not part and parcel in the Transatlantic Slave Trade", "The evil Greeks stole the Black African Wisdom", "The evil Arab Muslims exterminated the OG Black North Africans, but for a weird reason the prevalent patrilineal and male-only Y-DNA haplogroup in North Africa is E1b1b (E-M81 clade) and not J1 like in Saudi Arabia", "] was Black" and "We apply a 100% USAmerican obsession with skin colour, race and pseudo-history to other lands and historical periods", now on our screens: "The Cantigas de Santa María are fake". ] (]) 09:45, 20 November 2024 (UTC) |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 14 November 2024 == |
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{{Edit semi-protected|Moors|answered=yes}} |
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Please bring back the image that was removed here https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Moors&oldid=1254751943 |
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This image was removed after an Afrocentrist YouTube channel spread the baseless claim that this photo doesn't depict Almohad Sultan but rather Visigothic or Levantine scholars in Spain. Their only argument was the fact that the poems don't mention him by name. |
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I will provide the historical context and evidence to prove that this is false and the person depicted is indeed Almohad sultan Al-Murtada. |
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Cantiga 181 of the Cantigas de Santa Maria of Alfonso X is titled "The Banner of the Virgin Defeats the Moors at Marrakesh". |
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source: |
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<ref>{{cite web |title=Cantiga 181 - The Banner of the Virgin Defeats the Moors at Marrakesh |url=https://csm.mml.ox.ac.uk/index.php?narOption=nar&p=poemdata_view&rec=181 |website=The Oxford Cantigas de Santa Maria Database |publisher=Center for the Study of the Cantigas de Santa Maria of Oxford University}}</ref> |
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<ref>{{cite web |title=Cantiga 181 of the Cantigas de Santa Maria of Alfonso X - The Banner of the Virgin Defeats the Moors at Marrakesh |url=https://warfarewest.x10host.com/Cantiga/Cantigas_de_Santa_Maria-181.htm}}</ref> |
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The text goes as follows: |
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<blockquote> |
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The King of Marrakech was at war with another king. |
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The other king had crossed the Morabe River with a huge army and had laid siege to the city. |
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The king of Marrakech was advised to go out from the city with his best warriors to do battle. He was to take the banner of Holy Mary and to be accompanied by Christians carrying crosses. |
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The King followed this advice, and when the banner of Holy Mary was unfurled, the army of the other king was defeated. Many of his men were killed and they lost their tents and possessions. |
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others, seeing the banner and crosses, fled in great haste. |
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In this way, the Virgin helped her friends, even though they were of another faith. |
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</blockquote> |
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The poem talks about the battle between the Almohads and Marinids that took place near Marrakesh in the year 1262. When the Marinid sultan Abu Yusuf attempted to invade Marrakesh which was still held by the last Almohad sultan Abu Hafs Umar al-Murtada. |
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source: |
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The historian Joseph F O'Callaghan talks about this event in his book. "Alfonso X and the Cantigas de Santa Maria: A Poetic Biography". In Chapter 7 "The Rise of the Benimerines" page 135 he says: |
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<blockquote> |
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The invasion of the peninsula in mid-May 1275 by the Benimerines, a new Muslim dynasty from Morocco, dictated the urgency of the king’s movements. The Bani Marin or Marinids, whom the Castilians knew as the Benimerines, rose to power in Morocco on the ashes of the disintegrating Almohad empire. When Alfonso X sent his expedition to Salé in 1260, Abu Yusuf Ya‘qub b. ‘Abd al-Haqq (1258-1286), the emir of the Benimerines, was establishing his rule in that region and occupied Salé after the Castilians abandoned it. |
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CSM 169.53 described Abu Yusuf as lord of Salé—“o sennor de Cale.” His struggle to overthrow the Almohads extended over a period of years and was not completed until 1269.” |
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'''With some satisfaction CSM 181''', without mentioning his name, relates the story of a major defeat that Abu Yusuf suffered when he besieged Marrakech—“na cidade de Marrocos que e mui grand’ e fremosa” (6)—at an unknown date, perhaps in 1262 or 1264.?” This richly |
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illuminated cantiga shows the encampment of the turbanned and bearded Benimerines, armed with shields, lances, and pennants (panel 1). '''Abu Yusuf’s opponent, presumably al-Murtada, the last of the Almohad caliphs (d. 1268), is depicted with turban and beard and sitting crosslegged as his counselors urge him to give battle, but first to order the Christians of the city to bring out the banner of the Virgin Mary and the crosses from the church:''' |
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E porend’ os de Marrocos al Rei tal conssello davan que saisse da cidade con béa gent’ esleuda |
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D’armas e que mantenente cono outro rei lidasse |
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e logo fora da vila a sina sacar mandasse |
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da Virgen Santa Mana, e que per ren non dultasse que os logo non vencesse, pois la ouvesse tenduda; |
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Demais, que sair fezesse dos crischdos o concello conas cruzes da eigreja (17-26). |
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In the panels (3-6) portraying the confrontation of the two armies, a body of mounted warriors dressed in mail and bowled helmets carries two crosses and a red banner showing the Virgin Mary seated on a gold throne with her Child in her lap.*® Clearly these are Christian soldiers in the service of the Almohad caliph. Filled with great fear when they saw the Christian symbols, the enemy fled in disorder, leaving their tents behind. “Many of that ugly and bearded people died there”—“‘e morreu _y muita gente dessa fea e barvuda’” (33). The poet concluded triumphantly that Mary helps her friends, even those of another faith, who appealed to her: |
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E assi Santa Maria ajudou a seus amigos, |
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pero que d’ outra lei eran, a britar seus éemigos |
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que, macar que eran muitos, nonos pregaron dous figos, e asst for ssa mercee de todos mui connoguda (40-43). |
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</blockquote> |
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(text might have errors because it was copied from a pdf) |
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source: <ref>{{cite book |last1=O'Callaghan |first1=Joseph |title=Alfonso X and the Cantigas de Santa Maria: A Poetic Biography |date=1998 |publisher=Brill |isbn=9789004110236 |pages=135-136 |url=https://archive.org/details/alf_20231212/page/134/mode/2up}}</ref> |
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As you can see. the panel does indeed depict Almohad sultan al-Murtada consulting his counselors including christian ones from Castille as the Merinids were shared enemies for both Almohads and Castille. Castille was allied with the Almohad sultan Al-Murtada. And this poem talks about how the christians convinced him to let the christian soldiers carry the banner of Holy Virgin Mary. Which according to Castillian was the reason the Almohad army defeated the Marinid army. |
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I hope the image is brought back as I have provided extensive evidence. And please be careful with Afrocentric vandalization of such articles. ] (]) 03:28, 14 November 2024 (UTC) |
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:] '''Not done for now''': please establish a ] for this alteration ''']''' using the {{Tlx|Edit semi-protected}} template.<!-- Template:ESp --> I also suggest you read ] ] (]) 21:30, 14 November 2024 (UTC) |
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::I think a consensus was already established here. I also read the entire discussion and my edit answers all the questions mentioned there. ] (]) 01:22, 15 November 2024 (UTC) |
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::I do agree with AdamElMerini here, this image was removed way too quickly and before proper discussion. This is a contentious topic, and afrocentrists indeed try to change these pages. It seems there is much more evidence pointing to the fact that the man pictured is indeed al-Murtada ] (]) 17:22, 19 November 2024 (UTC) |
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== Abu Yusuf and Abu Hafs Umar al-Murtada are named == |
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== Abu Yusuf and Abu Hafs Umar al-Murtada are named == |
"Castillian ambassadors attempting to convince Moorish Almohad king Abu Hafs Umar al-Murtada to join their alliance (contemporary depiction from the Cantigas de Santa María)"
Academic sources clearly name both Abu Yusuf of the Benimerines and al Murtada of the Almohades.
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