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Irish famine

Domer, this has got out of hand. My posts to the talk page were always in relation to the O'Donnell quote. I have no reason to want to keep discussion of the genocide claim out of the article. I want the case to be made strongly and clearly so readers can appreicate the extent and impact of the famine on Ireland, and how it relates to the national question and the history of relations between Britain and Ireland. The O'Donnell quote is misrepresented, but don't mix up my opposition to it being used in the way that it is with opposition to discussion of the genocide claim. There is plenty to support the argument but I would like it copper-fastened against the basic criticisms of the view. The famine is taught as genocide, alongside genocides, in a number of American states. See here for suggested curriculum material from New Jersey (or here for the same source listed it alongside the Holocaust, Cambodia, Native American genocide, Armenia and the Ukraine). There's lots of supporting material for the view, my only concern at the moment is the O'Donnell quote. I'm not harking back to it - its simply the only thing that I object to. --sony-youth 08:38, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Accusations at Talk:Great_Irish_Famine#Manipulating_and_disruptive_editing_II

You are repeatedly accusing me of bad faith editing at the above-mentioned talk page location. This is against Misplaced Pages policies, specifically WP:AGF. I have repeatedly asked you not to do this. Please apologise and retract the statements. Please assume good faith in your dealings with other editors. Please stop being uncivil to your fellow editors; instead, assume that they are here to improve Misplaced Pages.

Cease the attacks, please

I strongly recommend you observe WP:CIVIL with your comments, such as . I can understand your frustration at this point, but you are getting to the point where your behaviour is just as watched as theirs. Yes, Mark called my attention to it, but in this case he does have a point. SirFozzie 20:00, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

I might point out that Sony has several times stated that he does not assume good faith in my case. Just for some balance. (Sarah777 22:27, 2 July 2007 (UTC))

When? Diffs would be nice. --sony-youth 22:31, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

OK Sony, here is one: "You write: "So. Ireland is an "aberration" (Red King) and is "not a country" (Sony) ..." This is a vile misrepresentation of your fellow editors. I am hurt and offended that you would treat me in this way.

Taramoon, please refrain from categorising others for the purpose of purporting that their contributions are POV. --sony-youthtalk 00:50, 25 February 2007 (UTC)"

That took about 15 seconds to find. You really want me to dig out more? Or maybe coming from Sony accusations of vile misrepresentation aren't accusations of "bad faith". This is boring, frankly. (Sarah777 22:48, 2 July 2007 (UTC))

Taramoon, at least, had the courtesy to apologise for the comments preceding ("Okay, I withdraw that, per below. Didn't mean to aim it at anyone in particulsr. Taramoon 02:03, 25 February 2007 (UTC)"). --sony-youth 23:06, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

So, the other person must always do the apologising? (Sarah777 01:48, 3 July 2007 (UTC))

What ArbCom is

It's the last, and most expansive step of WP:DR. If you guys want, I will open a case on Request for Arbitration.. but it takes a while to run, IF it's accepted (they might say that it's a content dispute, etcetera. I will talk to SWATJester about either doing a private mediation, or opening an ArbCom dispute. SirFozzie 12:01, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

This is a shame, because it isn't a dispute at all. It's dressed up as one by Users Sarah777 and Domer48, but the actual underlying issue is their repeated incivility and harassment. In fact, we can even see a direct example of that above. Sarah777 in particular has a long history of systematically distorting the various attempts of many different editors to get her to restrain her tone. I do realise that it is wearisome to go back and analyse all this, but I think SirFozzie if you were willing to spend some time on it, you would quickly see that very many times Sony-youth and others including myself have tried to ask for evidence, make NPOV alterations and challenged on issues, tried to remain calm and asked for incivility to desist, only to have it distorted, confused and deliberately thrown in our faces. At times when Admins have been involved, these users have either played dumb or acted hurt and innocent. Yet you can quite clearly see how Sarah777 operates above. This shouldn't have to go to Arbcom; as in my complaint yesterday, it should be dealt with as clear-cut cases of breaches of WP rules. The fact that it isn't effectively gives these users a green light to go on with the abusive behaviour, which we see above. I think they both will eventually be blocked but leaving casualties and disappointed editors along the way. MarkThomas 12:16, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Abusive beaviour is a two way street, as the diffs Domer posted show. SirFozzie 12:49, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Do you mean in the original post on Talk:Great Irish Famine that I complained about? I've just been back and reviewed that. Which of my comments in his diff are abusive? I mean, my comments, not his heavily distorted interpretation of them. MarkThomas 13:10, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

ArbCom

Since it looks like with regards to the ongoing issue, nothing will be solved until ArbCom gets involved, I have created an ArbCom case about the ongoing issues with Great Irish Famine and its editors. I will repeat what I said to Sarah, that I agree with a great many points that you made, but I STRONGLY urge you to be CIVIL during the ArbCom case. SirFozzie 13:16, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

First off, I think you broke the formatting (if you look at the RfA page it looks like it split off your quote into a new subsection). Secondly, try to keep it clear and concise. We're not arguing the case right now, we're telling ArbCom why they need to take the case. Definitely keep it below 500 words, try to use as few as possible, Focus on the harassment you feel you're getting from MarkThomas for example. I'm kinda stuck at the moment (work sucks ;) but I'll try to poke my head in from time to time. SirFozzie 17:33, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Never mind. Had a free moment and fixed it for you.