Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 03:44, 25 June 2005

• Archive 1 (13 Nov 2004 to 23 Feb 2005)
• Archive 2 (24 Feb 2004 to 27 May 2005)

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Angel77

Thanks for reverting his edits to my Talk page; he's done the same to other people, and to a number of article Talk pages too. It's perilously close to vandalism, and completely bizarre. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 11:39, 29 May 2005 (UTC)

I'm glad to have helped.

WP does seem to attract a great number of people whose behaviour is completely bizarre. (a) Perhaps the wider world has many such people and I just hadn't noticed their existence. Then again... I can think of 1 friend of my mothers ... whos orthography is odd (in email), whos addicted to ellipses ... and who ends every 2nd sentense with multiple esclamacion marx!!!!!! And yet she's perfectly balanced and sane otherwise. So (b) perhaps nutty things are done on WP by otherwise normal people. Is it (a), or (b), or both? I shall ponder this when I go to bed, which will be soon. Oh, yet more irrelevantly: I recently enjoyed reading the little essay sold as a tiny, handsome book, On Bullshit. -- Hoary 14:25, 2005 May 29 (UTC)

On Bullshit really took me aback when I first saw it; I assumed that it must be a different William Frankena — but it wasn't. I haven't read it yet, though (the middle of term is a bad time to catch up on reading). Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 11:18, 30 May 2005 (UTC)

Wikilyrics

Hi. I just read your post on the deletion page for the Wikilyrics article. You said that the disclaimer "is stunningly wrong-headed." No offense here - I am honestly curious. What exactly do you mean? You go on to say that wikilyrics is guiltiy of "large-scale copyright violation." Please explain. Every song page on wikilyrics has that disclaimer at the top. It's nearly identical to the disclaimers on other lyrics sites. How is it that that is not legal? If you know more about the copyright laws, please tell me - I am extremely interested and certainly would like to find out that what I'm doing is illegal if it in fact is. I'm not asking for you to change the vote - I'm asking for useful information. You may reply here or in my talk page if you wish. --Anthony5429 17:03, 29 May 2005 (UTC)

Hi and thanks for writing so amicably. (I now think that my own earlier comment was unnecessarily grumpy.)

You catch me on a busy day. (WP won't get many contributions from me, at least for a few hours.) So I'll be brief. Copyrights have a certain similarity to requests for secrecy. If you tell me something and then say that I shouldn't tell anybody else, I should not then pass it on to my chums, asking them not to pass it on further. Somebody else's copyright of (say) a song lyric means that she can do what you want with it and I can't. If I announce that she is the copyright holder when I reproduce it, this may make my behavior less unacceptable in her eyes, but it needn't.

I agree that copyright is routinely violated on the web. I also think (though I don't know) that a lot of copyright holders don't worry about this, and that a few even encourage others' dissemination of their lyrics. I took a quick look at your site and it looked a lot better than its rivals (less tacky advertising, for one thing). But that doesn't affect copyright laws. -- Hoary 02:00, 2005 May 30 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your help. You obviously know more about this subject than I do. Since I made that post, I visited a page on google which specifically concerns online lyrics and title 17. I made several modifications to the disclaimer and I think now Wikilyrics is not violating the copyright. Maybe you can tell me if this is the case. I know the chances of getting shut down for copyright violation are extremely slim but even so, I would like to follow the law just as it is the right thing to do and I respect the artists' copyrights. --Anthony5429 14:33, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the link; I passed through it to the Google answers thread. I'm not a lawyer, but I find it very hard to believe that US law would allow the virtually unlimited (web) dissemination of material with notices that it is not to be "used for any purpose other than private study, scholarship, or research". My guess is that you'd have to demonstrate that you had taken measures to ensure that dissemination was only for these ends; as it is, you have no control whatever. Note also what happened to the "International Lyrics Server", and consider the comment Definitely get a lawyer who's a copyright expert involved in this. The law is much more limiting than the official answer above suggests, to the point that I believe the answer verges on being misleading. Incidentally, I'm very dissatisfied with copyright legislation -- but it's not me who decides it. -- Hoary 15:01, 2005 May 31 (UTC)

True, true. You may have noticed I actually have a message on the general disclaimer asking anyone who is a copyright expert to contact me. It will be interesting to find out. For now, I'm keeping the site up unless I find that, for sure, the disclaimer doesn't keep it legal. Thanks for your help and have a nice day. --Anthony5429 21:56, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

I see you are against lyrics as they are a copyright violation. Well I believe that would only apply to artists that have pleaded for their lyrics to not be on the internet. Its odd how we can have full plots to movies... such as the new Star Wars which is still in theaters, which has probably taken away box office from the creators, yet we can't post what someone sings. Redwolf24 05:49, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Lyrics are copyrighted whether or not the copyright holder complains about them being republished without permission or not. Plots to movies on the other hand cannot be copyrighted. --W(t) 05:51, 2005 Jun 23 (UTC)

Vandalism of others' user pages

Please do not vandalize my user page. I have already warned Yuber and Mel Etitis that their continued vandalism is unwanted.Enviroknot 02:56, 30 May 2005 (UTC)

Thank you for making this request/comment politely, but insertion and reinsertion of the sockpuppet template is not considered vandalism hereabouts when convincing evidence is adduced for the allegation. -- Hoary 03:01, 2005 May 30 (UTC)

The evidence is fabricated as the users involved (Mel Etitis, Yuber, Firebug, Slimvirgin, and others) have been on a personal vendetta against the user they claim I am a sockpuppet of. They have accused me of being a sockpuppet falsely, because it gives them an advantage in a content dispute. Please do not vandalize my user page again.Enviroknot 03:05, 30 May 2005 (UTC)

I hadn't expected the 3RR page to be archived so quickly (I notice from one or two other messages that others were equally taken aback). I've replaced the link to the (now accepted) arbitration request (and now that I know how to do it, I've replaced the template properly). Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 11:14, 30 May 2005 (UTC)

I've only just realised that you left me further messages on this topic (because I noticed your message to SlimVirgin). I get so many messages that I sometimes miss addition made to earlier threads. Sorry not to have replied earlier.

My position on this has been bolstered by the responses to the User-page edits (see the page Histories, paying particular attention to who is reverting changes on whose User pages, and the sort of language used). Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 12:12, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply, Mel. Yes, the other two seem to be like each other. Yes, they're foulmouthed. Yes, they pull the socky template off Enviroknot's page. Yes, they and Enviroknot seem to be interested in a similar range of pages. But Enviroknot's list of contributions doesn't show him doing anything whatever on their pages, and his language seems perfectly acceptable to me. Or am I less observant and even sleepier than I realize? (It's 22:15 here, says my computer: "here" is my office, and I haven't yet had dinner. I'll be getting home at midnight again.) -- Hoary 13:14, 2005 Jun 3 (UTC)

Concerning Jamaica Farewell

Can lyrics be private domain too? Lyrics site abound in the net, surely they are not illegal? And what does that GDFL thing mean? Another thing, how could you possibly edit my article within a minute of me starting it? ... added at 07:46, 2005 May 31 by Loom91

I don't know what you mean by "private domain", but if you're asking if lyrics can be copyrighted, the answer is "Certainly". Just take a look at the lyrics sheets of some CDs. Lyrics sites certainly abound on the net; their violations of copyright are illegal. For GFDL, please look at the material under the message input box when you add any material; specifically, the link to Misplaced Pages:Copyrights. How was I so fast? Well, I'd just downed a can of spinach! -- Hoary 07:54, 2005 May 31 (UTC)

Do you have a Yahoo! or MSN Messenger account? I'll like to have a real-time conversation with you. Loom91 08:24, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

Sorry, no, I don't.

Incidentally, I hope you don't mind my deletion of your link. Perhaps I overlooked something, but as far as I could see the entire group archive consists of a message by you asking for information, plus irrelevant spam. If I'm right, then it offers no information, and if it offers no information, there's no reason from WP's PoV to link to it. -- Hoary 08:30, 2005 May 31 (UTC)

The link has a purpose. It's infested with SPAM now! That does not mean it's cursed or something. It will fill up with information if people see the link and start contributing to the group. The logic here is the same as stubs. Surely you are familiar why stubs are tolerated. And your restructuring of the Jimmy Buffet line was senseless. Jimmy Buffet is mentionable because he is a major singer. Thousands of people must have sung it. Your way of saying it gives the impression that Jimmy Buffet and Harry Belafonte were the only ones to sing it. Loom91 08:42, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

(i) It seems that your purpose in providing the link is to help the site that you link. I sympathize. But sorry, that has no value for Misplaced Pages, and this is why I am deleting it again. (ii) I don't understand what the analogy with a stub is. (iii) I'll reword what's said about Buffett. (iv) If thousands of people must have sung this, fine, let's see who some of them are. -- Hoary 08:55, 2005 May 31 (UTC)

Do not take the offensive. But I still think that line isn't right. The best-known is Belafonte. Buffet comes second. With no intention to start an edit war, I'll reword that again. Loom91 09:04, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

Let's continue the discussion on the article's talk page. -- Hoary 09:08, 2005 May 31 (UTC)

Sir Lancelot

Interesting - I had never heard of him. I know a Pinard slightly (one is married to a friend of mine), but not very much about the family. Didn't make sense his being born in Cumuto until I saw in one of the links that his father was a government official. Thanks for the article. Bothers me not to know things like that about my own country. Guettarda 03:28, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I first knew of him via the film I Walked with a Zombie (a surprisingly good film, despite its stupid title), and I was reminded of him when I saw him in To Have and Have Not the other day. Well, Sir Lancelot only accidentally became a calypsonian, and thereafter only worked for the export market (I imagine). Still, he did a good job -- his work isn't really authentic calypso, but then it hardly could have been. It's softened for the US market, but by no means sold out. Somewhere I have an LP by him, but I don't know where. (Come to think of it, I don't know offhand where the record deck is either.)

For a second time, I'll admit to knowing next to nothing about "Jamaica Farewell". As a look in the history will show you, my "contributions" to that article were in cutting the various excrescences. -- Hoary 03:46, 2005 Jun 3 (UTC)

Enviroknot

Hi Hoary, thanks for your message. I haven't looked at the page that's linked to, but I know from the editing pattern, writing style, and IP addresses used to post to WP and to e-mail admins, myself included, that there's no reasonable doubt that the three are being operated by the same person. More evidence will doubtless emerge during the arbcom case against him. SlimVirgin 14:29, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC)

How do you nominate a page for neutrality?

How do you nominate a page for neutrality? The page for "Gene Loves Jezebel" is deserving of such nomination. Thank you. ........posted at 00:25, 2005 Jun 4 by Nominay

Sorry but I have no idea of what you are talking about. Perhaps if you gave an example of a page that has been awarded neutrality (??), I would then understand. Incidentally, it would be helpful, and I'd be grateful, if you'd sign your comments; this is easy: "~~~~". -- Hoary 03:33, 2005 Jun 4 (UTC)

I have no idea of what you're talking about of having no idea of what I'm talking about. You have awarded neutrality to pages in the past, even the recent past, so you should know exactly what I'm talking about. You know how to put that PNOV template on pages or whatever it is, when you think people are being biased, etc. How do I sign my name like you want on here? I don't know how to do that either. My name is Nominay. .... comment added at 07:03, 2005 Jun 5 by 24.155.125.234

(1) Show me a page to which I have "awarded neutrality", and I'll look at this page and attempt to explain. (Are you talking about removal of a template?)

(2) You sign and date your comment by hitting the twiddle key four times: "~~~~". -- Hoary 07:12, 2005 Jun 5 (UTC)

Browsers 'n' stuff

Yes, I know about Macs and Linux, etc. In fact, my first computer that I owned was an Apple II, and I once worked at a computer store selling the original Mac 128's, and later the "Fat Macs" (512K). The store even had one leftover Lisa in the storeroom that they eventually unloaded on someone at about half-price (which was still double what it was worth after the Macs came out). The Apple II wasn't the first computer that I've programmed on, however. That was a DEC PDP-8 in 1968.

At the moment I have too much software and data that is PC only, so I'm not going to make the switch. So instead, I just practice (and recommend) "safe hex". I'll soon be upgrading to a new computer (yes, yet another WinDoze machine), but the old computer will be turned into a Linux workstation. On the other hand, I have been thinking strongly about getting one of the new Mac minis for my septuagenarian father for his next computer, since all he does is access the internet for stock information and do a little work in M$ Excel. BlankVerse ∅ 06:24, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Hmm, I infer that your father doesn't already have Excel for Mac. If you don't already know of NeoOffice/J, good news, you don't have to give MicroSloth any more of your money.

I wonder how big the hard drive of the mini is. That of my new Mac laptop is 30GB, which I thought a little niggardly. I was also shocked to discover that only 19GB of it was free when it was brand new. I followed an acquaintance's advice and booted from the setup CD-ROM that came with the machine, asking for a reinstall from scratch. By picking and choosing and avoiding games, M$IE, Chinese and Korean fonts, etc etc, I ended up with 23GB free. (If I hadn't wanted Japanese, I'd have saved yet more space.) This operation was very simple. -- Hoary 07:08, 2005 Jun 4 (UTC)

calypsonians

Black Stalin, Roaring Lion and Growling Tiger are all descriptions much like Lord Melody. The are generally refered to simply as Lion, Tiger, Stalin. Guettarda 07:32, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Aha! Yes, I had realized that "Roaring Lion" was the same as "Lion", but as it happened I'd never encountered "Growling Tiger" (always just "Tiger"). Time to stick the poster back up above my computer monitor: "Engage brain before operating keyboard". Sorry for screwing up the list! -- Hoary 08:15, 2005 Jun 5 (UTC)

You didn't screw up the list - I had messed up the spelling (S before P or something like that)...problem with trying to concentrate late at night. Guettarda 14:18, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Extra-terrestrial real estate

Your recent edit summary read: "The whole thing still strikes me as dodgy, though." It wasn't clear to me whether you thought that the issue or the article was dodgy. There are definitely organisations that sell land on the moon and elsewhere, although the sale on eBay is irrelevant (someone put my College up for sale recently...), and I've removed it. The summary was accurate, though; the definition is land etc. that's sold. Whether it should be sold, and whether the sales are legally binding, is another matter. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 08:53, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Sorry to have been vague. I thought that the "issue" was dodgy (to put it mildly). I had no reason to think that any sane, carefully thinking person would believe he or she could buy this surreal estate. (That fools or the dimwitted might pay money for a bit of Moon, etc., is a different matter.) No link was given, and a spot of googling turned up nothing.

I still don't see that land is being sold. What lunarembassy.com (thanks for the link) is doing, as I understand it, is selling bits of paper that it claims entitles the sucker buyer to a patch of Moon. This page tells us that a "very bright, young and handsome" chap went to the San Francisco Country Seat, where "the main supervisor", perhaps additionally befuddled by the beauty of this faunlet, probably thought, "Uh, yeah, why not", and OK'd it. Now middle-aged and paunchy (no Dorian Gray after all), he has been showered with awards by the Retrogressive Party. Touchingly a man of the 20th century, he pays lip-service to the UN, while being sure to point out that the US is the boss nation. Where was I? Yes, it's all nonsense. But then again, nonsense backed by the elephantine party does tend to become US law, which you'd better believe is universal law unless you want a "bunker buster" to aerate that sweet little Oxford garden of yours, buddy. (I think I'm going to throw up.)

Here's some common sense: the government not contesting sort of like me going into my local McDonald's and telling the manager there that I'm claiming ownership of the Quick-E-Mart across the street

Oh all right then, it probably depends on what's meant by sale. He's certainly taking money for bits of paper; is he thereby "selling" bits of Moon? Several floors below the office in which I now sit is, I believe, a copy of that remarkable book Words and Phrases Legally Defined (or similar title). But somehow I can't be bothered to look right now. -- Hoary 10:19, 2005 Jun 6 (UTC)

Thanks for your support

Thank you for voting on my RFA. Have some pie! I was pleasantly surprised by the sheer number of supporters (including several people that usually disagree with my opinion). I shall do my best with the proverbial mop. Yours, Radiant_>|< 08:15, Jun 8, 2005 (UTC)

Thank you for your support

Thank you for supporting my candidacy for administrator. Kelly Martin 14:44, Jun 10, 2005 (UTC)

Reply about Lucky

Intimidation Lucky put me in was not the main reason fro VfD, it's just that I thought he left Misplaced Pages permanently which I thought would be a good reason to put his user page up for vfd not to mention that it was also blank. Sorry about the bogus thinking. --SuperDude 06:39, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Oh, I'm surprised that Lucky 6.9 actually left. I thought he was a fine RC patroller, that has a chance to work on his short-temperedness (like I used to be few years back). - Mailer Diablo 02:33, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Lucky does seem to have blown up occasionally, but only when considerably provoked. I like to think that I wouldn't have blown up, but I'm not at all sure -- after all, I've never been provoked that much. I am sure that I've never put as much effort into attempting to deal with somebody difficult as Lucky did with this person or indeed as you did with your young Singaporean fan of airports etc. -- Hoary 02:59, 2005 Jun 17 (UTC)

Israeli terrorism

What do you think about erasing this page and moving it into state terrorism?

Guy Montag 07:37, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Not a bad idea, but not really a good one either. I've added a PS to my "keep" vote. -- Hoary 09:33, 2005 Jun 14 (UTC)

Thanks for your support

Hi Hoary! Thanks for supporting my RFA! Sjakkalle (Check!) 13:38, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

My RFA

Thank you for supporting my RFA. Guettarda 23:38, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Supernaut

I saw your note on the Supernaut discussion page. I added the Ozzy sings louder so its much more obvious now, but as for your orchestra with solo part... Yes if you turn up the song you will hear an orchestra. Although its called a solo it doesn't mean other instruments can't go on in the background. Much like one of the solos to the Cream song, White Room which is actually played as Jack Bruce is singing. Not all solos are like that of Led Zeppelin's Heartbreaker. Redwolf24 05:49, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Ah, thanks. I understand now, I think. -- Hoary 06:13, 2005 Jun 23 (UTC)

More from User:PJJP

Take a look at 2004 Indian Ocean Tsunami Impact on Global Media... VfD? --Macrakis 23:51, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

belated thanks

Thanks for supporting my RFA nearly a month ago. Unfortunately a sad event occurred at that time in my family, and I have not been able to participate in Misplaced Pages as much as I would like. I hope to get back to active contribution soon. Thanks again! Cheers, FreplySpang (talk) 00:02, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Redirects

Dear Hoary,this is user:tdxiang.I hope you help me out with this html...the article Fei Ge needs some redirecting automatically.Can you please assist me in this?Thank you and be a happy Wikipedian!

Done. I didn't bother to see who had done what, but anyway Fei Ge was redirecting to one page, which was redirecting to another. Just now I rewrote the first of these so it went directly to the third.

If you have any more problems, don't hesitate to ask.

Incidentally, it's simple to sign your name on talk pages: "~~~~". -- Hoary 03:44, 2005 Jun 25 (UTC)