Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 05:59, 5 October 2005

euro

I doubt Germany and the EU formally allow Montenegro to use Euro as an official curency

• currency: euro - even though Montenegro is not part of the Eurozone, it uses the euro after Germany and the EU allowed it to use the German mark years ago. Now, since the German mark was superceded by the euro, the euro is the official currency of Montenegro.

separatism

Some Montenegrins have in recent years shown a desire to separate Montenegro from the federation with jist of the separatist movement being among the Slavic Muslim and Albanian minorities who make up some 20% of the population -- what does this sentence mean? -- Zoe

I don't know, but it seems to make some kind of sense if you assume "jist" is a typo for "most"...�F��s�l�er:Paul A|Paul A]]

I'd say it's typo for "gist". Nikola 05:59, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

In recent years, some Montenegrins have shown a desire to separate from the Yugoslavian/Balkan/Serbian(?) Federation. The separatist movement consists mainly of Slavic Muslim and Albanian minorities, which consist of 20% of the Montenegrin population. --More sense?

No, it makes no sense at all. I thought the seperatist movement was started by the Montenegrin Parliament and Montenegrin Government, right?

Actually you are wrong. The separatist movement started in 1990 with the Liberal Party of MOntenegro (LSCG) which has constitently had about 5-10% of support among the population (among both Orthodox, Muslims and Catholics). In 1992 when the question of Montenegro's future was at stake (referendum on federation with Serbia) the LSCG called on Montenegrins to boycott. Aside from their voters (5-10%) the bulk of the Slavic Muslim and Albanian population boycotted as can be seen from the results on this page . The turnout was 66% of which 95% voted for the union (some 62% with 70% Orthodox Slavs). Each county basically matches with its ethno-religious make-up. Bar with 60% Orthodox Slavs had a 48% turnout, Ulcinj with 73% of Albanians had a 17,54% turnout, Plav with an 80% Slavic Muslim and Albanian population had a 27,63% turnout and finally Rozaje with 87% Slavic Muslims and 4% Albanians had a 10,85%. All of the other counties (with clear ORthodox Slavic majorities) all had majority turnouts. I personally find this exercise redundant, trying to 'prove' what is obvious to anyone who has ever set foot in Montenegro. But I guess that from now on I will not have to discuss the subject. Furthermore if you are interested I can get you poll results which basically point out what I am talking about. Just quoting one from 2001 (VREME) that I have, 5% of declared Serbs support an independent Montenegro, 83% of those who said they were Croats, 89% of those who said they were Slavic Muslims and 87% of Albanians. -- Igor 22:00, Sep 23 2004

And as far as I recall, neither the Montenegrin president nor prime minister are Muslim nor Albanian.

No but the controversial speaker of the parliament Rifat Rastoder is. -- Igor

Are you trying to say that Gjukanovic is in some way an Bosniak/Albanian agent, representing Bosniak/Albanian interests? Let me put in more straightforwardly, did Bosniaks and Albanians bring Djukanovic & Co. to power? No Montenegrin voted him in? Well, I thought Albanians had their own political parties, and so do the Bosniaks.

That is the interesting part, the Slavic Muslims have their own parties (SDA etc.) however none of them have been in parliament since 1992 and then maybe one or two seats? The Slavic Muslims adore and vote (can be proven with the help of any opinion poll) Milo Djukanovic, his DPS party and especially his junior partner SDPCG party (which has about 40% of Slavic Muslims in its ranks which you can see for yourself as soon as they fix their rotten page http://www.sdp.cg.yu if you go to 'Organizacija'). -- Igor

How long will iditos like yourself continue to blame just about everything on Bosniaks and Albanians? When will you wake up and understand that now even your formal brothers Montenegrins can stand you and your Serb superiority policies any longer.

church

The main church is the Serb Orthodox Church, though there is also a splinter Montenegrin Orthodox Church established in 1993. The faithful reportedly remain close to the Serb Orthodox Church regardless of the new church as can be witnessed by the attendance of sermons and booming monastic life at the Serb church none of which the other side can boast of.

This seemed rather biased toward one church, especially the second sentence. I'll strike it and revise the first part to try for a more NPOV.

That's just factual. If you have any information suggesting otherwise please come forward with it. As far as I know, the autocephalists have no spiritual support whatsoever, for one thing they have not built a SINGLE shrine in Montenegro or anywhere else in the world. They are nothing more than a political pressure group used by the government of Milo Djukanovic. -- Igor

The article states that "Montenegrins are mostly Eastern Orthodox Christians. The two major branches are the Serb Orthodox Church and the Montenegrin Orthodox Church, which was re-established in 1993.". MOC is not a major branch of Eastern Orthodoxy, nor was it re-established in 1993. Nikola 12:36, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

The previous comment of the article states that MOC was not re-established in 1993, which is a fallacy. The MOC has been legally registered in Montenegro in line with the valid legal system of the state of Montenegro and in line with the laws in Montenegro - which is clearly apparent from the MOC page on Misplaced Pages. The MOC Church is called the Montenegrin Orthodox Church in its formal registration in Montenegro, so there is no space for speculation here. The Church was re-established after a separate existence until 1920 and a ban by the Serbian (then Yugoslav) autocratic King Aleksandar. The article does not claim that MOC is a major branch of Eastern Orthodoxy outside Montenegro.

The statement "over 74% of Montenegrins are Eastern Orthodox Christians, most of whom belong to the Serb Orthodox Church" is anyway a fallacy, as there is no accurate census that can prove this. One may say truthfully say that "most Montenegrins are Eastern Orthodox Christians, most of whom belong to the Serb Orthodox Church", but a large number of Montenegrins are atheists, agnostics, or otherwise, myself included. Being a Montenegrin does not mean that you are part of the 74% of Eastern Orthodox Christians. Sorry, this is the 21st century.

You can not just delete the fact that MOC followers claim that "all of the existing churches in Montenegro were once part of an autonomous Montenegrin Orthodox Church that was abolished following the union with Serbia in 1918." This is the explanation why shrines are not being built en masse in Montenegro by the MOC, as it claims to inherit the churches currently in the hands of SOC. If we put only one viewpoint in "its following is small to the point of non-existence and it has not been recognised by any other Orthodox Church" it is not balanced. Also, the statement "its following is small to the point of non-existence" needs to be based on fact not fancy. Do you have an official census of followers or is this your speculation?

- user 20:28, 04 Oct 2005 (UTC).

Montenegro / Crna Gora

Anybody has ANY idea why is the international name of Montenegro in Spanish? I haven't been able to find this peace of information. Thnx. -- Marianocecowski 13:29, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)

The name comes from the Italian (not Spanish) for "black mountain", probably referring the dark wooded mountains. Jonathunder 17:55, 2004 Nov 22 (UTC)

I thought about it, but no, it's Spanish. In Italian it would be Montenero, without G. Which really puzzles me, as Spain is not so close. It's not Portuguese either nor French. Weird, huh? -- Marianocecowski 04:46, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I'd say it's originating from Latin. This name was made back in the early second millenium when the Venetians sailed the eastern Adriatic coast and noticed the Lovćen mountain covered in black pine... --Joy 10:45, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Monte Negro/Montenegro is Veneto, a dialect(?) of Italian which is the word most of the world uses today when referring to Crna Gora - Black Mountain - MonteNegro. Some nations do not use Montenegro but translate literally Black Mountain: Slavs (Cerna Gora, several variations), Greeks (Mavrovunion), Albanians (Mal i Zi) and Turks (Karadag).

- What puzzles me is why would these countries copy one another because it would be a big coincidence if all of them, seeing for themselves, call the country "Black Mountain". And why don't we have the name that the aboriginals called their land since Slavs arrived there after antiquity. Thus Cerna Gora can't be a possible candidate. Thus I think it either comes from Albanian "Mali i Zi" or Greek "Mavrounion". - user

Eh, what are you talking about? It's like Ivory Coast - the name is a phrase that means something, so other languages took over a translation rather than a transcription. --Joy 13:04, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

Why isn't the Albanian version of the name listed at the beginning? I would also say the Greek version, but there are no Greeks there I believe. - user

Figures on population and ethnic division

Dears,

I'd like to report that the figures shown in these pages are somewhat different from point to point. As for total population there are two different (but not so much) figures and the same holds for ethnic minorities' percentages. Albanians are reported to be the 5% (main page)and 7% (link to demographic history) of total pop.

Thanks,

Eniel

The article states that "Montenegrin and Serb identities are not exclusive", but this is not true. They are exlusive acording to the constitution of Montenegro, the constitutional charter of Serbia and Montenegro, and half a dozen separate censuses since the mid 20th century - all of which allow only one national identity to be declared. These are the raw and unbiased facts (not speculation). On the other hand, it is true that a number of Serbs and Montenegrins may believe that they have both identities - but there is no modern census nor constitutional basis that can support a statement such as "Montenegrin and Serb identities are not exclusive". Many Montenegrins do not feel to be Serb, and never pronounce themselves as such. You can not force national groups to "be Serb" if they do not feel so and never declare as such.

"However the number of Montenegrins does seem to be in steep decline since the introduction of the category by the Communists on the 1948 census" seems to imply that the Communist regime declared the nationality of citizens in polls. This is not true, as citizens declared their nationaility in polls, individually. In fact, the Communists - for the first time allowed citizens to declare their nationality as Montenegrin - by introducing the category, which is more important. If it stands like the previous user wants it to stand, then we must add a sentence stipulating that the "Serbian ruling dynasties in the pre World War II Yugoslavia banned Montenegrin citizens from declaring their nationality as 'Montenegrin'" This is as true as the Communist quirp, as the Montenegrin option was obviously not allowed before World War II.

The sentence "The validity of the referendum was not confirmed by international observers as the allegedly free and democratic vote, in fact took place during wartime in the former Yugoslavia." is true. So I leave it. Of course, I agree to change "international" into "OSCE, EU and US" - as the referendum may have had international monitoring from Cuba, Iraq, North Korea, Byelorussia, and Russia.

- user 20:28, 04 Oct 2005 (UTC).