Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 02:36, 7 March 2010

Watch for Neutrality and abuse for propaganda

This senior most police officer along with KPS Gill is among the most notable, famous and also controversial police officers from India. There are many groups out to get him for right or wrong reasons (it is not for wiki editors to determine whether they are right or wrong). Please monitor this article on regular basis for prevention of any abuse and adherence to biographies of living persons, neutral point of view , factual accuracy and sourced guidelines. Thanks. --History Sleuth (talk) 04:12, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

I dont think its a propaganda, Mr. It appears that this officer did not spare any body. In order to make your views NPOV, please put yourself into the spot of that 91 year old lady whose Hindu son and son-in-law were both murdered just because this guy was in power and he had personal dispute with them. Her tears might have gone dry after crying for years and years, I could not even read all her newspaper statements, she do not want to die before getting justice from this great Nation. Please look from the eyes of those innocent children (especially that polio ridden child) who were burnet alive per Saini's orders (if these massive references are true). People are doing candle light marches against him, Congress is filling cases against him, courts are odering investigations against him, CBI is calling him culprit. Just imagine that how long the ruthless torture might have taken to make an old man loose his mental balance. And look he even killed this mentally imbalanced man afterwards. (This is what India's prestigious Central Bureau of Investigation is saying) It is spine chilling. Such ruthless cruelety against humanity. Please be NPOV. Please.. Please...Please.... for sake of God!! --170.35.208.21 (talk) 08:01, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

CBI is not court of law. It is an investigative agency which itself faces accusations of being manipulated by politicians. Under the laws of all countries, a person is persumed innocent until proven guilty in the court of law. This has not happened in Saini's case. No court has found him guilty of any offense. So he must be presumed innocent for encyclopaedic purposes. If he is accused of anything by particular group than it must be stated that he is 'accused' of whatever the alleged atrocity was. In case of the biography of living persons, added caution needs to be practiced and negative comments need to be given only conservatively and never without a citation , proper context and due weight.

The original draft of this article was quite balanced. It neither glorified him nor vilified him and stated all the negative references about him with due caution. If you think Indian administrative system has allowed him to get away with the crimes you and others accuse him of and you want to bring him to justice, then this is a campaign you need to fight on other forums. Misplaced Pages is not meant for this purpose. Until you have a proof that he was convicted of any alleged crime, you should not make it look like he was. It is considered libel. I understand your passion about this issue but you need to temper it a bit here if you don't want your neutrality questioned. Regards--History Sleuth (talk) 18:48, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Discussion

Guys! I guess we all want to improve this article. Everybody has done excellent work to find great references. Please discuss any issues over here. Lets see if there are any issues which need further discussion. Regards--24.5.208.21 (talk) 02:09, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

I agree with the current wp:npov setup of the article. It has great references. Thanks for the hard work. Good Job --144.160.130.16 (talk) 21:14, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Why not participate in the discussion from your regular accounts? How hard it is to register. I take it you are regular[REDACTED] users. Thanks.--History Sleuth (talk) 22:50, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Good work guys! --64.164.146.118 (talk) 22:26, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

I purpose to take the "neutrality" tag off. The very last edit was made by editor User: History Sleuth and other editors did not raise any objections. I will wait for one day for any inputs before removing it. Thanks. --144.160.130.16 (talk) 21:32, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Reference Issues

I will be moving some references here which does not support the entered text. Article should purely be wp:npov. I request any pro/anti-subject editors to discuss any issues over here. --DawnOfTheBlood (talk) 00:04, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

http://www.indianexpress.com/ie/daily/19981106/31051524.html - • This reference never mentioned that “Despite various accusations , Saini continues to be seen as a highly regarded police officer and inspirational figure by many in India” • It does say Saini is ideal of Param Singh aka Param Bir Singh. I have documented it under section • Remember, while talking about Param Bir Singh, this reference said “These days, the Maharashtra-cadre cop is Deputy Commissioner of the Crime Branch in Mumbai” • While continuously praising Param by several people, it talk about his transfer to Crime Branch, it says that he can be a source of inspiration to inspiration to several newly trained officers. http://www.tehelka.com/story_main14.asp?filename=Ne091005Dirty_Harrys.asp • This reference never mentioned that “Despite various accusations , Saini continues to be seen as a highly regarded police officer and inspirational figure by many in India” • It says “IGP SS Saini, known as Punjab’s very own Dirty Harry, has been in the thick of action since the days of terrorism, earning public applause and criticism with equal measure. Dheer’s arrest, provoked by a piece in The Sunday Express alleging Saini’s vested interests and benami properties worth crores of rupees, is a classic display of terrorising a hapless citizen.”

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2002/20020629/main3.htm • This reference does say “Both Mr Bhatnagar and his immediate colleague IGP Intelligence (till Thursday), Mr S.S. Saini, are known to be officers of unimpeachable integrity and professional competence. So I am keeping it alongwith its text.

Any objections ?--DawnOfTheBlood (talk) 00:14, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Following references are sufficient to support the edit you deleted. They clearly imply that he is considered to be a highly regarded figure by some. I am surprised that total ommision of the fact that Devinder Pal Singh Bhullar is a convicted terrorist and violation of many other WP guidelines like BLP and Undue Weight did not bother you. Lets use some restrain here. Thanks.--History Sleuth (talk) 01:51, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

• "Former Punjab DGP K.P.S. Gill and former Chandigarh SSP S.S. Saini are his ideals. 'Gangsters merit no sympathy', says Singh, explaining why he advocates a tough line." Roving Eye -- Chandigarh ,The Indian Express, Friday, November 6, 1998
• 11.^ a b "Saini’s role in crushing terrorism is legendary, as were the methods he employed. In 2002, Saini masterminded the arrest and subsequent probe into the Ravi Sidhu-led Punjab Public Service Commission that won applause across the country" Dirty Harrys Thrive in Amarinder Regime, Vikram Jit Singh, Tehlka.com, Sep 10 , 2005
• 12.^ a b "Mr. Saini was a dare devil police officer an had strict attitude towards terrorism and was much dreaded and feared by terrorisrs. " Nation keepers: Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF) , pp 104, R. S. D. Dogra, New Delhi : A P H Publishing Corp., 2004.
• 13.^ a b "Both Mr Bhatnagar and his immediate colleague IGP Intelligence (till Thursday), Mr S.S. Saini, are known to be officers of unimpeachable integrity and professional competence." It is a clear case of ‘operation cover-up’" , Special Editorial, Hari Jaisingh, The Tribune,Saturday, June 29, 2002, Chandigarh, India

Again, please see my points above. These references are related to Saini but these do not support the text which you are adding. I kept one of your sentence because it did support one sentence, but you can not use any reference to support any text. I am sure if you do further search then you can find some sources, please feel free to add your text once you have the supporting references.

Also, I need to see the following reference please.

Could you clarify what do you need to see more here. The reference is even quoted. What more do you need to see here?--History Sleuth (talk) 01:43, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

^ a b "Mr. Saini was a dare devil police officer an had strict attitude towards terrorism and was much dreaded and feared by terrorisrs. " Nation keepers: Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF) , pp 104, R. S. D. Dogra, New Delhi : A P H Publishing Corp., 2004. --DawnOfTheBlood (talk) 00:18, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

I need the weblink to this source, please.