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Record Charts NA‑class

This page is within the scope of WikiProject Record Charts, a group of Wikipedians interested in improving the encyclopaedic coverage of articles relating to Record charts. If you would like to help out, you are welcome to drop by the project page and/or leave a query at the project's talk page.Record ChartsWikipedia:WikiProject Record ChartsTemplate:WikiProject Record ChartsRecord Charts NA This page does not require a rating on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.

Archives

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This page has archives. Sections older than 21 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 4 sections are present.

Edit table

There isn't the link of the BPI in the certifications of the singles in UK and there isn't the link of the RIAJ for the certifications in Japan (from 2003 to date for Gold & Platinum and Million from the launch of the award) http://www.riaj.or.jp/data/others/gold/index.html -- http://www.riaj.or.jp/data/others/million_list/index.html . Furthemore, the CRIA certified also in the RPM era, not only in the SoundScan era (it's divided in the table). SJ (talk) 16:55, 28 March 2010 (UTC+1)

I fogot to signal also the link of the Norway official chart that include an all-time archive. http://lista.vg.no/ Also the link for the Diamond Award in Poland. http://www.zpav.pl/plyty.asp?page=diamentowe&lang=pl SJ (talk) 18:52, 28 March 2010 (UTC+1)

Italian Albums Chart

In the few days, i re-examined the criteria of the two Italian albums charts: FIMI and Musica e Dischi. I discovered that at least until the early 2009, Musica e Dischi covered more point of sales than FIMI.

• Musica e Dischi covered 100 specialized stores, the total of the large areas and the principal chain stores to free national service ( http://web.archive.org/web/20060421162255/www.musicaedischi.it/classifiche.php ). I written to the magazine for to know what is the total and is circa 600 point of sales (in the '60s was 4,000. From '60s to date a lot of shops were closed).

• FIMI covered only 275 point of sales until the end of the 2008 ( http://www.fimi.it/dett_ddmercato.php?id=42 ), when expanded its panel to 1,400. In July 2009 expanded the panel from 1,400 to 3,000 point of sales ( http://www.adnkronos.com/IGN/News/Spettacolo/?id=3.0.3563994896 ) and from January 2010 from 3,000 to 3,400 ( http://www.fimi.it/gfk_notametodologica.php ).

I think that at least until early/mid 2009 we would include it in the table of the reliable charts (for the albums).

I don't know for the singles, i know that's used by MTV Italy and includes physical and digital singles, but physical singles sales are very poor and FIMI covers more digital stores than Musica e Dischi. Maybe before 2008 could be used because FIMI considered the Physical Chart the main singles chart and Musica e Dischi from 2006 used also the download in its single chart. At the moment, i haven't got sufficient material for to affirm what of the both singles charts covers more point of sales before 2008. SJ (talk) 1:56, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

I think that we should do a new source page like for Japan. Misplaced Pages:Manual_of_Style_(record_charts)/sourcing_guide/Japan

SJ (talk) 0:15, 09 September 2010 (UTC)

Consensus on use of succession boxes?

How is consensus reached? I have begun removing succession boxes from articles for #1 songs. My feeling is consensus has been reached, at least for a particular article, if my change is not reverted, as has happened for Love the Way You Lie and California Gurls (which I changed a week and a half ago for each). I have encountered resistance at such articles such as Tik Tok (song), 3 (song), and All the Lovers, and so I have invited each user who has reverted the change to the discussion above. There has been little response, though, and those who have either don't like them or are indifferent but just want an "official" consensus. Well, how does that happen?

I have compiled below links to previous discussions regarding the use of succession boxes in these types of articles, with the earliest found dated June 1997 and in-depth discussion beginning in December 2009, revisted in March 2010, and the current discussions that I began last month. Note that some discussions pertain to the issues with succession boxes and not necessarily their removal.

1. Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Songs/Archive 2#Chronologies - succession
2. Misplaced Pages talk:Manual of Style (record charts)/Archive 7#Succession boxes
3. Misplaced Pages talk:Manual of Style (record charts)/Archive 7#Succession boxes, are they effectively 'affiliate advertising'?
4. Misplaced Pages talk:Manual of Style (record charts)/Archive 10#Billboard Charts: Each charts spans a WEEK's time, not just one day.
5. Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Albums/Archive 35#Can we officially discourage chart succession boxes?
6. Misplaced Pages talk:Manual of Style (record charts)#Remove succession boxes

Thanks everyone! --Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars (talk) 18:00, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Hi, I started one of those discussions and contributed to several of the others. I don't like them as you probably know from reviewing the prior material you've located. I think the REAL problem is (and I hope my undertanding of a comment by Kww earlier is correct), is that they are SO WIDESPREAD, and numerous editors are committed in doing them...so even though they are silent here...they OBVIOUSLY want them and will RESIST to the end of days. I just checked Tik Tok (song) and I see that my edit to collapse it into an 'Order of precedence' has not been reverted, yet! I'm sure I did that months ago and someone took it off again. I think the collapsed version might be the best compromise position; the material gets to remain for those trully interested, and for those of us that are not--we don't have to see the large 'chunk of junk' on the page. I think maybe we could gather support for the collapseable version to be used when the number of entries exceeds X. <Amount to be determined.—Iknow23 (talk) 04:14, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

I just noticed a comment on your talk page regarding "Start Without You". Although I am personally fine if I NEVER see another succession box, in that article it does not appear to be excessive (so far). Perhaps choose the big huge ones to go after? As in pick your battles? The small ones aren't that bad. They are easier for me to ignore :)—Iknow23 (talk) 04:30, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

If we can establish a habit of not using them in new articles and removing them in GAs for example the novelty will wear off. The other option (much more difficult to convince the need for) would be to ask a BOT to remove them whenever/wherever they appear in large instances but for that there would need to be a very detailed discussion clearly outlining the rational for their removal.-- Lil_℧niquℇ №1 | talk2me 02:27, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Two points I am personally in favor of them to the extent that I think they could actually aid in navigation. They seem helpful. I know that I've never used them, but I can imagine someone doing so and it's not a trivial association in my mind. The greater issue, though is that of consensus and removing these from articles. At the very least, please do not remove them until there is a consensus at relevant WikiProjects (e.g. WP:ALBUM) and/or a part of the MoS. Simply reaching a consensus on talk and not amending the germane Misplaced Pages namespace pages will resort in more confusion, reverts, etc. Personally, I have no real horse in this race, but I am going to implore anyone involved to simply wait until the relevant guidelines and projects have been changed before going about changing the main namespace; it will result in chaos. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 05:47, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

As I have experienced and have been told, consensus is not usually determined by discussion alone, but primarily through the actual editing of articles. Per WP:CONSENSUS, "any edit that is not disputed or reverted by another editor can be assumed to have consensus". I have removed the succession boxes from a number of articles, usually referring to this discussion in the edit summary. If the change was reverted, I would discuss it with the individual who reverted it, asking them to comment here. They have either ended up agreeing with the discussion, diagreeing but "consenting", or ignoring my invitation. So for the most part, without policy being written, as there was never policy to include them, consensus has been reached as few of these changes are now being reverted. But I will continue to discuss the issue any time someone else does. --Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars (talk) 07:24, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

I've been invited to join this discussion rather than simply carry out its challenge. Can someone give me an "executive summary", if you will, of the argument for deleting all the succession boxes? Another way of requesting this is to say how would a proposed hypothetical consensus against them be succinctly explained in the MoS? Feel free in lieu of that to link me directly to posts already written above or in the archives if there are two or three that capture the argument for removal. I know how frustrating it can be to have to reiterate ad infinitum, but it's even more frustrating to see wanton degradation and have to read scores of talk page posts to get up to speed on the main points of the argument. Thanks, Abrazame (talk) 04:33, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Oppose: Concensus has not been reached with such sketchy discussions by a few. If and when concensus is reached, after a much wider appeal being launched for comments, such concensus should be reflected in the style manual in Misplaced Pages in a clear manner. I repeat that there is no need for individual deletions. After concensus, a program can be designed that will automatically delete all such boxes without us individual editors interfering. When you are deleting, you are already seeing stiff opposition, because you are deleting stuff that is very relevant. I will not defend keeping the succession boxes vehemently, but I am asking for a Misplaced Pages policy stated clearly and with no ambiguity before making such deletions. werldwayd (talk) 19:11, 6 October 2010 (UTC) werldwayd (talk) 19:13, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

I have hardly seen stiff opposition to keep them. Except in a few cases, after directing those who have reverted my changes to this discussion page, they have let me remove them, thus implying consensus on those articles. In the ones I have removed, it hasn't been haphazard or random at all. I'm working from a list. And speaking of lists, I have been adding links to the lists of #1 songs for the charts they topped when possible, which provides the same information (and more) that you get from the succession boxes in a less unwieldy manner. --Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars (talk) 00:38, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Portuguese singles chart

Here there is the official Portuguese singles chart compiled by Associação Fonográfica Portuguesa.--Fangul (talk) 18:02, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

That's a ringtone chart, not a singles chart.—Kww(talk) 19:23, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

It's an official digital songs chart.--Fangul (talk) 19:41, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

It's still a ringtone chart, which we don't use. Yves (talk) 19:47, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

The chart ranks the best selling digital tracks in Portugal. Why we don't use it?--Fangul (talk) 20:54, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

First of all, digital charts are infrequently used on Misplaced Pages (only France, and the US, if there is no charting on the Hot 100, and those are the only two, I believe). Secondly, it's not a digital chart; it's a ringtone chart. This can be seen clearly, as the title is "TOP 30 RING TONES SEMANA 39 de 2010". Ringtone charts are not used on Misplaced Pages. Yves (talk) 21:13, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

There are a few other download charts around. The Italian chart we use is a download chart, because physical single sales are extremely rare in Italy. I think there are a few other countries like that. There aren't any ringtone charts that are used, though, and this is a ringtone chart.—Kww(talk) 21:18, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Artistas & Espectáculos uses "TOP RING TONES" this doesn't mean that it's a ringtone chart: you can clearly read "Top Digital AFP", which indicates a download chart.--Fangul (talk) 11:48, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

I think "TOP RING TONES" is pretty self-explanatory: it's a list of the top ringtones. And of course it's a download chart; what other format do ringtones come in, other than download? Yves (talk) 11:51, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

You can also buy them in the NBT (New Mobile Telephone) format. Despite the relatively high cost, it's even more popular than 8-Track ever was! — JohnFromPinckney (talk) 12:45, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Top Digital AFP indicates the official Portuguese digital chart. "Top Ring Tones" indicates the digital chart here.. It ranks the best selling digital tracks and you can find it on the magazines LER and Exame, where it is also listed as the official digital chart.--Fangul (talk) 13:50, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Besides saying "ringtone" right on the chart, it also says "Top Digital AFP com a colaboração da Arena Mobile, Movilisto, Musiwave, Optimus, TIM w.e., TMN e Vodafone". The only providers providing data to the chart are mobile telephone providers.—Kww(talk) 21:48, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Singapore charts?

I'm looking to include this Singapore chart, the 987FM Top 20, in an article. Trouble is I'm not sure it if can be counted. There are only a few charts in Singapore anyway; I have no idea which is the national music chart, or which can be used for the matter. The 987FM Top 20 is listed as a music chart on this website, but I'm not sure if it can be trusted. Any help with Singapore charts? ANGCHENRUI _WP:MSE♨ 12:35, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

The 987FM Top 20 is a single station airplay chart, so it cannot be used. I don't think there is an acceptable chart for Singapore.—Kww(talk) 14:34, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

So none of the charts used in Singapore can be used here? Not at all? ANGCHENRUI _WP:MSE♨ 04:58, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Unfortunately not the one from 987FM, as it is for a single station. If you can find another one, though, that you think may be used, please mention it! :) Yves (talk) 05:00, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

None that I know of.—Kww(talk) 05:16, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

So all I can do is just state the song's chart performance for that radio station? ANGCHENRUI _WP:MSE♨ 06:37, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Venezuelan and Ukrainian charts

These to charts have been used in the All The Lovers page. Venezuela, Ukraine Can someone look at them, and see if they are bad charts ? Ahmetyal 14:03, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Venezuela is OK if used with webarchive or some other service to make the link permanent. The FDR Ukraine chart has been discussed a few times (as in here), but the discussions have never reached a conclusion. I tend to delete it when I see it, but I've never listed it on WP:BADCHARTS. I'd like to hear other opinions and see if we can finally come to a consensus about it.—Kww(talk) 14:01, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

Different charts in different years

The current guidelines on the page are, "Albums and singles which appear on different charts during different years are formatted with the charts for the most recent year furthest down the table:", with an example given of a song charting on the Japanese Airplay Chart in 2007, while on other national charts in 2006. Shouldn't this be changed? According to the Manual of Style's guidelines on accessibility, specifically for data tables, there is a section on "Avoiding column headers in the middle of the table" (whose status is complete), with an example of separating charts like this. I don't think they should be separated, but the column title could have "Charts (2006–07)" instead of the different headings for different years. Thoughts? Also, having the second heading messes up the sorting (try it out!), although that could very easily be fixed with a sort template. Yves (talk) 01:10, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

• STRONG AGREE. There is a lot of the 'year range' being used in articles already and I have noticed the interference with the sort functionality by spliting the years. But I would suggest that the header remain in the singular as "Chart (2006–07)".—Iknow23 (talk) 02:13, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
• Separate tables for the same reason that caused the "further down" guideline to be added, and in keeping with the accessibility/sortability issues you mentioned. I've been meaning to get to this, so you've forced my hand. I hope you find my choice acceptable. Check my work. — JohnFromPinckney (talk) 05:06, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I had noticed it :) It is an improvement to what it was. However, I actually prefer (or is it that I've just grown accustomed to seeing them) the Year span range being used 'out there'. I think it is more 'notable' to the reader to look up their country or other region of interest which can be found in a single (one) table alpha order listing more readily than having to scan through two tables. It is the peak position which is of the utmost importance (the reason for the chart), the year obtained is secondary IMO.—Iknow23 (talk) 05:19, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

Again (IMO) the year range is sufficient. FULL charting trajectory can span different years within the same chart (country or region), mostly if the song or album is released near the end of one year. Some may peak in the year of release, others in the following year. And in some areas it may not be released until that 'following' year, but that can be seen in the 'Release history' section. It is the 'Peak position' that is of interest, if someone really wants to know the EXACT year that it occurred the ref for the peak should be able to provide it. Also I'm sure that some will report the EXACT chart week of the peak in the article text.—Iknow23 (talk) 18:03, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Why isn't Mexican Airplay Chart in the list of singles chart?

I think Monitor Latino is a reliable source, in the articles of Loca and Cuando Me Enamoro the chart and the peak is there, but altough they are spanish singles, the chart allow all-language songs. --Lxhizy (talk) 04:14, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

Monitor Latino is a reliable source, and if you use webarchive or a similar service it's fine to use. It doesn't appear in WP:GOODCHARTS because it doesn't have an archive. If people link directly to the site, the link goes bad in 7 days.—Kww(talk) 13:55, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

Oh, ok, thank you. --Lxhizy (talk) 21:19, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

Polish Dance Top 50.

In "GOODCHARTS" we can see Polish Airplay Chart, but maybe somebody can add Polish Dance Top 50? I think it is a good chart - it's official, we can see archives of it (http://zpav.pl/rankingi/listy/dyskoteki/index.php?action=getArch) and this is like US Billboard Hot/Dance Club Airplay. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.11.54.173 (talk) 13:57, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

It will take some coding, but it is on my list of charts to add.—Kww(talk) 14:02, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

Ok, thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.23.26.176 (talk) 10:49, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Danish album chart from 1997

I found this, http://top20.dk/archive/2008 and i think its the official album chart from Denmark. Ahmetyal 17:50, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Doesn't really look like a legit professional archive... unsure, though. Yves (talk) 17:53, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

http://www.hitlisterne.dk/ has listings back to 2001. Yves (talk) 17:54, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

The charts are the same from 2001 to 2008 in both sites. look:

• IFPI Week 3 2001
• top20.dk Week 2 2001

The top20.dk site have a archive to 1997. Ahmetyal 18:40, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Mainstream Rock Tracks/Songs

I think the chart is called "Hot Mainstream Rock Tracks", not "Mainstream Rock Songs"! Just a suggestion to fix! The Man Who Needs No Introduction! (talk) 20:45, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

Oh, and one more question, if a song charts on the "Alternative Songs" chart first, and then on "Rock Songs" do both charts go on? The Man Who Needs No Introduction! (talk) 20:47, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

erm I don't know off by heart but check WP:USCHARTS -- Lil_℧niquℇ №1 | talk2me 21:06, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

Romanian and Russian Charts?

Are there websites for archives of these two (Romanian Singles & Russian AirplaY). Can I include them in the singles page? I saw them somewhere and I needed to clarify them before I add. Is there a Template for these two? Novice7 14:52, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

There's no archive of the Romanian chart, but it can be used if you use WebCite or something similar to create a permanent copy. The Russian Airplay chart is on WP:BADCHARTS and cannot be used.—Kww(talk) 15:08, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

And there are no templates for either of these charts. The template documentation at Template:Singlechart should help you see what's currently available for yourself. Thanks for asking in advance, BTW. — JohnFromPinckney (talk) 15:18, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Shall I remove the Romanian charts from charts table as the archive is not available? I know these questions have nothing to do with the heading, but recently a user added US Top 40 Tracks into the table. As it is defunct should it stay? And, what about the previous Canadian Singles chart? I see there is no template. Shall I use the old format? Thanks in Advance! Novice7 15:43, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Unsourced data is unsourced data. If there's a chart listed in a table and the link doesn't support it, you should try to see if you can find a good link. If you can't, remove it. I wind up always removing the Romanian charts. Canadian positions can sometimes be sourced: usually I just replace it with a link to the Canadian Hot 100, which can be easily sourced. If the table has templates, just format your manual entry to match.—Kww(talk) 16:02, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Thanks Kevin! Novice7 16:28, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Succession boxes proposal

After creating an article for "Everybody Wants You" and then seeing its succession box removed, I came across the succession boxes discussion above. Personally, I find the succession boxes helpful as both informational and navigational tools, and I think they provide useful context when browsing articles. But I see others disagree, and a lot of good points have been made about their accuracy, sourcing and sometimes excessive appearance on the page. So I'd like to propose a compromise:

1. Succession boxes should only be added to an article if the information in them is properly sourced, with an inline (in-box) reference.
2. Succession boxes that are already in an article should be left alone, unless they're not sourced, in which case they should be tagged with , and if no one provides the sourcing after a reasonable amount of time, deleted.
3. When more than 3 succession boxes are present, some sort of collapsing should be used (example) so that they don't overwhelm the page, while still allowing interested readers to view them.
4. If a song or album makes multiple runs at #1 on a chart, only one box for that chart should be used (example).

I know some editors want to get rid of them altogether, and some editors (myself included) think they're beneficial, so it seems to me that allowing them but requiring sourcing and collapsing might be a good way forward. Is this reasonable? Support? Oppose? 28bytes (talk) 23:40, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Although I don't really think they are appropriate, in a compromise mode; yes, what you propose is reasonable and I can support it. An example HERE where I used the collapsible table, again as a compromise. You will note that it is a major relatively recent song (see the peak charts there) and yet it remains. So at least on that page (and some others that I also collapsed), as long as it is accepted it is a compromise already in effect. I certainly have no objection to getting a general consensus for an 'official ruling' but it seems that that had never happened...so I went ahead with what I thought best.—Iknow23 (talk) 05:54, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Good example... collapsing that one was a good move IMO. 28bytes (talk) 18:15, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

My pleasure :) Here's an (example) from a major album article.—Iknow23 (talk) 19:08, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

• Support This seems like a reasonable suggestion to me. I think succession boxes are quite useful when navigating from article to article, and the information should be fairly easy to reference. For example using the British Hit Singles book for UK no. 1 singles. TheRetroGuy (talk) 18:09, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
• Oppose. There is no need to link to songs that have no other relation to the article. The information that it reached number one is in the prose and/or chart table. Succession boxes are designed for honors, awards, etc. Reaching #1 is not an award, it is a ranking. If you're going to do for number one songs, there no reason you couldn't do it with songs that reach number 2 or 3 (and it doesn't take away from the meaning of "chart precedence" or "order of precendence", which does not imply being #1 on at a chart at all). Lower chart positions can just as easily be sourced. The links to existing lists of #1 songs is much more helpful and unobtrusive and provides even more information, then just the link to the next song. --Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars (talk) 20:23, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

• NA-Class Record Charts pages
• NA-importance Record Charts pages
• WikiProject Record Charts articles