Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 03:10, 4 March 2006

I believe that the bottom paragraph of this article is biased. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.140.63.214 (talk • contribs)

• I agree -- I've edited it to a less biased version. Don't forget that you can do this yourself! Just click the "edit this page" tab to fix it. Tim Pierce 21:35, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

I see some other people are working on this page as well. Anyway, I am finding it difficult to find information on the early life of Ollanta (even from sources in Spanish), everything I can find is from the 2000 revolt onward. If anyone can find some information on his early life and how he became a solider it would be very much appreciated. There has to be some important/interesting stuff, he was a military officer during the whole Shining Path rebellion. Also, I'm pretty messed up with the whole "image policy" situation, if someone can find an image of Ollanta to find that would be great. Thank you.--Jersey Devil 18:02, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

I added an image and I know it's grainy (sorry guys but I have to save pictures to paint in order to get them as .gif instead of .bmp files and that takes away some coloring from the original image). Anyway, if someone could go on the link to which I got the image (you can find it by clicking on the image, I put it there) and get a clear image of it and put it here that would be really helpful. Thanks.-Jersey Devil 08:06, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Newspaper

About a year ago, the Movimiento Etnocacerista handed me a newspaper named "Ollanta." The webpage of this paper, which hasn't been updated in years, can be seen here . Anyway, about a month ago I saw the same newspaper, with the same exact format and tagline ("The Nationalist Press that Peru Needs"), only it had been renamed "Antauro." Has the Movimiento Etnocacerista abandoned Ollanta? Are they supporting his more radical brother? There is also a building with a very large banner in Cusco that simply says "Humala Presidente" and has a picture of Antauro. It also has the symbol of a political party. I don't know what party is backing Antauro, but its symbol is a bean-shaped seed sprouting a plant. Is Antauro actually running against his brother? --Descendall 22:40, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

As far as I know Antauro Humala is still in prision and facing trial for his rebelion on Abancay. He attempted to run for congress under a minor political party , but the JNE rejected his candidacy in the grounds that he is facing trial. Messhermit 00:07, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

I think that there may be some truth to it. My cousin, who is Peruvian (as in actually born and raised their not Peruvian-American) told me something a bit similar. There was a difference though, he said it wasn't Antauro but another one of Humala's brothers. But I am pretty sure that there is at least another Humala brother running in the election. Other things of interest is the father of the Humalas, Isaac Humala. He put all his children in military school from early on for 'amor de la patria'. Some links, the second one is an interview with Isaac Humala on Peru.com -Jersey Devil 22:56, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

It is correct: Ollanta Humala and Ulises Humala are running for President in 2006. Ulices is more identified with Antauro, and has declared that his brother Ollanta no longer represents the radical change that Peru needs. Messhermit 00:03, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Yep, and here is a source (Yahoo News in Spanish) confirming that -Jersey Devil 06:19, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Union for Peru or Peruvian Nationalist Party?

Which one is it? From my understanding he founded the PNP but is running under a coalition ticket of the Union for Peru and the Peruvian Nationalist Party. However, the article doesn't make that clear.-Jersey Devil 02:35, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

He was forced to make a deal with Union of Peru in order to participate in the elections. His party, the Peruvian Nationalist's, didn't manage to get the authorisation (not enought votes) for running a Presidential Candidate from the Jurado Nacional de Elecciones. In these way, Union of Peru launched his bid to the presidency. Messhermit 02:50, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

IP edits

There have been some IP edits that I am considering reverting. I'll wait for comments. On a side note, it is ridiculous Misplaced Pages policy to continue to allow IP's to edit articles.-Jersey Devil 21:36, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

It complement some points, but also promotes some POV. Messhermit 00:20, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

"Andean Stormtroopers"? This guy seems to be adding POV left and right. The only thing of value added is some stuff about Isaac Humala who was in fact a Communist lawyer who put his 7 kids through military schools. I'm going to revert most of the POV stuff, if anyone has a problem with it you should voice it here. If you check, the same IP is also making edits in other pages related to this page-User:Jersey Devil 05:24, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Links don't have to be NPOV, and it's not like the guy is only adding stuff from the right -- he also linked to the Maoist El Diario --Descendall 03:33, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Links can be POV, and in that sence I would say that they must be readed by a wikipedist and determine if they are POV or NPOV. I would not say that Maoist newspapers are the most reliable ones... Messhermit 05:04, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

To be fair, El Diario seems to be more moderate now. At least they aren't the clear mouthpiece of the Shining Path anymore like they used to be. But in any event, links can obviously be POV, even extremely POV; after all, we do link to the campaign's webpage. The one blatant NPOV violation that I saw with the IP was the reference to Ollanta as an "ideolouge." That kind of language is obviously loaded. --Descendall 08:36, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Human Rights Violations?

The following was recently added to the article:

Humala has also been accused of torturing peasants under nom de guerre "El Capitan Carlos" ("Captain Carlos") during the 1980s. While he and the PNP have denied the accusations, and that he ever used such a pseudonym, his brother Antauro Humala recently stated that Humala certainly used such a name during their activities.

Is "El Universal" a reliable source? I've never heard of it before. And are there any other sources which back the claims?-Jersey Devil --Jersey Devil 01:30, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

An Update, I've found these articles in La Republica about it. -Jersey Devil 02:46, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

---

"El Universal" is not a reliable source but the case of Ollanta's Human Right Violations apears to be a true case. Because the army has burned all documents about the case to protect its officials.

About reliable information, you can find it in : "La República" "El Comercio" "Perú 21" "RPP":

http://www.elcomercioperu.com.pe/online/ http://www.larepublica.com.pe/ http://www.peru21.com.pe/ http://www.rpp.com.pe/portada/

It should be noted that Ollanta claims that the Flores campaign is behind these accusations, and that the cicha press is acting in collusion with her party. This may sound like a wild accusation for Ollanta to make, but the press in Peru does have a history of spreading misinformation on behalf of political candidates. Montesinos regularly paid off TV stations. --Descendall 21:49, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Ollanta´s Political Orientation

Ollanta is consider a leftist because of his admiration to the General Velasco's government in Perú and because of his friendship with Chavez. Also because he wants to make public some private enterprises. (State economy) But this is seen also in Hitler's National Socialist (Nazi) economy.

Then the topic that differences socialist measures with a fascist inclination is citizenship. Ollanta is a fascist, in his government only ancient inca's race will have the right to be citizens. Other “races” like white or chinese will have less rights and could not be called “Peruvians”.

Socialist or liberals leftists think this racism is unacceptable. Simplifying the political Peruvian spectrum will be something like this: Left: Socialists , Center: liberals, Right: Conservatives, Extreme Right: fascist

Chimuelfuerte

Feel free to add that if you have a source, but I doubt that you're going to find one. No one in Peru would ever say that their "race" is "Inca." That would be a misunderstanding of the word Inca. The closest you might get to that is someone who said that their race is Quechua or Serrana. I would be shocked if Humala said that he was going to revoke the citizenship of people who aren't Serrano, first because that would be extremely radical and second because that would lose him the election -- most people in Lima probably consider themselves Mestizo. --Descendall 21:55, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

The good thing about Peru is that the issue of race is not always an important factor in any type of Elections. President Toledo attempted to gather that (portraying himself as a Cholo) in contrast to President Fujimori (nicknamed Chino) and it didn't succed. He was only able to win the 2001 election because of the overwhelming anti-Alan García vote. I don't believe that Humala is gonna be dumb enought to play that card. Messhermit 15:25, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

I would add to that that simply playing up your ethnic roots isn't really akin to racism and certainly doesn't lead to the revocation of citizenship for everyone else. All Peruvian politicians put on a chullo every now and then -- it's no different than Bush putting on a cowboy hat. Toledo certainly didn't revoke the citizenship rights of mestizos, and Ollanta isn't going to either. On a side note, I always think that Ollanta looks a little silly in his poncho and chullo while standing in front of a wiphala -- the guy is obviously light-skinned. A cholo he isn't. --Descendall 18:21, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Im glad you are positive. I agree with the example of Messhermit that race hasen't played a determinant role in elections before. But that doesn't mean it can play it on this elections or that Ollanta had said it many times. I have seen he on TV. About he being "cholo" i don't think he is because he is not, he is "mestizo".What diferences the case of Toledo saying he is Cholo from Ollanta is that Toledo didn't use the subject of the race like a subject of campain. And that he uses negatively.

Vargas Llosa, Perú's famous writer writes about it. http://www.vcrisis.com/index.php?content=letters/200601231434 Chimuelfuerte 02:42, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Vargas Llosa is not exactly a source that I would call NPOV. He is actually famous not only for his writting skills, but also because of his out-of-context political remarks in Peru. Messhermit 04:55, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Bringing up the issue of race with regards to the ethnocaceristas is fine. However, as Messhermit pointed out at Misplaced Pages the foremost important issue (especially with regards to political issues) is keeping them NPOV. And as Messhermit pointed out, Vargas Llosa is not an NPOV source. He is a stanch market liberal, Thatcherite, and ran for the Peruvian Presidency. So he is not an apolitical figure, nor do I think that "Venezuela-Crisis" is a NPOV source. A good idea would be to say "Mario Vargas Llosa, a champion of the free-market, writer, and former Presidential hopeful, says this about Ollanta Humala or argues this about the use of race in political elections.....".-Jersey Devil 10:58, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

I would say that is better to avoid such controvertial quotes. Vargas Llosa is too overrated regarding political opinions. Messhermit 14:24, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Interstingly enough, the article itself makes corrects a mistake that I find a lot of Americans seem to make: that Latin Americans use the term "raza" in the same way that people from the United States do. Llosa argues that Humala is a "misti" because his father has money. You never hear of English-speakers talk about race in terms like that. A white person who had a poor father isn't considered "black" in the United States. Since this is the English wikipedia, we should be careful when we talk about the Latin American conception of race. One other thing -- Llosa doesn't claim that Ollanta Humala would revoke the citizenship of mitis. He claim that Ollanta Humala's father hypocrtically would. --Descendall 00:21, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Humala admite que se llamó Capitán Carlos

Humala admite que se llamó Capitán Carlos El caso de los presuntos abusos que habría cometido el ahora candidato a la Presidencia Ollanta Humala, durante su paso por el Alto Huallaga, en 1992, adoptó un nuevo matiz luego de que el propio aspirante al sillón de Pizarro admitiera a un canal extranjero que sí usó el seudónimo de 'capitán Carlos' cuando dirigió la base contrasubversiva de Madre Mía, en Tingo María.

http://www.peru21.com.pe/elecciones/macro/video_elecciones.asp?cs=671&n=452781&pag=&tipo=B http://www.peru21.com.pe/elecciones/macro/video_elecciones.asp?cs=671&n=452781&pag=&tipo=B