Revision as of 19:28, 10 April 2011

Welcome to wikiquette assistance
Wikiquette assistance is a forum where editors who feel they are being treated uncivilly can request assistance. The goal here is to help all parties in a situation come to a mutually agreeable solution. It is designed to function via persuasion, reason, and community support, rather than threats or blocks. Your first resort should be a polite attempt to discuss the problem with the other editor(s). No binding decisions are issued here. If you seek blocks or bans, see WP:ANI instead. Sections older than 5 days archived by MiszaBot II. Click here to purge this page (For help, see Misplaced Pages:Purge) Shortcut WP:WQA Please notify any users involved in a dispute. You may use {{subst:WQA-notice}} to do so.
Search the Wikiquette archives Additional notes: Before posting, see that you've made every attempt to follow the advice at Guide to avoiding disputes. Consider the helpful advice here and see the dispute resolution process. Include diffs that show the situation. See the Simplest diff guide for help. The conduct of all parties will be taken into account. Assistance may involve suggestions for altering your own behavior to avoid conflict. Volunteers are welcome. See the volunteer instructions.
To start a new request, enter a name (section header) for your request below:

Active alerts

User Uirauna

This user has been manipulating and reverting the Iran-Iraq War page both under his own name and under other sockpuppets. He has multiple aliases, as you can clearly see by the way he writes. All accounts use similar wordings and sentence structures, in that the posts are made up of similar grammatical English styles. He has also been asked several times not to throw words such as vandalism around so liberally, as he clearly doesn't understand how it applies to various scenarios. He tends to put down editors and get his own way by accusing them of vandalism etc, when he doesn't want them to write about certain topics. Most likely the topics conflict with his own agenda.

Lately, he has resorted to personal attacks against me. See his latest posting on the discussion section of the Iran-Iraq war page. Please consider this a formal complaint. This user has difficulty accepting the current agreed consensus amongst the various editors. Kind Regards (RobVanden 06:14, 5 April 2011 (UTC)). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Robvanden (talk • contribs)

This is probably a retaliation from my previous complaint here: . The user is a proven and blocked sockpuppet (process here: ) who fails to be civil and respect WP rules. I stand by my actions so far, I have done no such personal attacks (actually, I believe I didn´t, I´m quite carefull not to be offensive to anyone). Rob, if you think I have sockpuppets, please open a complaint at WP:RFCU. Thank you. Uirauna (talk) 14:08, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

User:Promethean

• Promethean (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Misplaced Pages:Editor review/Ebe123 (edit | ] | history | links | watch | logs)

Promethean has been reviewing me at my editor review and he was uncivil. I was not minding it just to the user did more still on my editor review. ~~EBE123~~ _Contribs 16:51, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

Four possibilities:

1. It might be useful to listen to what he says, and you can overlook how he says it: this does not appear to be the case, since you've come here.
2. It might be useful to listen to what he says, but you don't want to because of how he says it: then delete his comments (it's your editor review), ignore him, at the risk of missing out on some useful info.
3. He isn't saying anything useful, but you can overlook how he says it: this does not appear to be the case, but if it were, the solution is, again, to ignore him.
4. He isn't saying anything useful, and you don't want to hear it because of how he says it: then delete his comments (it's your editor review), ignore him, and you aren't even risking missing out on some useful info.

I've found that Options #3 and #4 are most common with Promethean, but note that in all four cases, the solution isn't to come here. The solution is to stop talking to him, delete his comments if you wish, and if he doesn't take the hint and keeps pestering you after you stop talking to him, then come here and ask someone to get him to stop. Saying things in a stupid way, so that the person you're talking to is not inclined to listen, is his weakness, not yours. --Floquenbeam (talk) 17:13, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

Done possibility 3 4.

Done ~~EBE123~~ _Contribs 17:38, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

What I said Stands: However blunt my review was, it was true and accurate to the picture I and several others have accertained of this user. His inability to take in the review on its merits and admit he wants to 'get up there' way to fast is disappointing but will only hurt his prospects of doing just that. Regarding the removal, What I said doesn't need to be on the page because it's something that is blatantly clear and will come up in any RFA. I myself have watchlisted future RFA's from this user and will air my concerns there as it seems that the Editor Review process isnt made for bad things to be said about a person, however true they are. As for ACC right whoring, the tool admins are also well aware of your history and I doubt they will be changing thier position any time soon though I have no say in this. Though I find it funny that no reference to the removed review, however blunt it was, was made on the page (IE "Review by Promethean removed" with a link to the diff) and some will view this as a perversion of the Misplaced Pages namespace (you don't own Misplaced Pages namespace pages) and the Editor Review process. I have put the review on the talk page per convention such as those at RFA. So yes, the outcomes are perfect and everything is as it should be.   «l| Promethean ™|l»  (talk) 02:01, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

I'd also like to say that whilst my Review was 100x more blunt than BelovedFreak's, we both mentioned the 'desperate to get power' image that people have of Ebe, so to say its completly unuseful when two people have said it and Ebe has ignored it is a failure to take critism on his part. Ebe needs to understand Im not gaining anything here and this whole process isnt doing me any harm, however, if he doesnt think to himself "Geez two people are saying this now I wonder why they think of me this way" then that is his loss, not mine.   «l| Promethean ™|l»  (talk) 02:30, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

The editor review process asks for constructive criticism, but doesn't give a carte blanche to be rude to someone, whatever their faults. Given that Ebe was following Floquenbeam's advice in deleting your comment, it seems unfair to harangue him about it on his talk page - an editor review isn't really the equivalent of an RFA. I can see that you hoped your review would help Ebe improve, but now you've made your point, I can't see the harm in letting the post disappear.--Physics is all gnomes (talk) 12:15, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

As far as Harangue'ing Ebe about the removal, which is a bit of a stretch, I was more annoyed at the fact he opened a Wikiquette Alert (which is a discussion), notified me about it and then posted on my page that the "discussion is over" an hour later after he saw Floquenbeam's contribution before I could even get my 2 cents in or address his concerns which I agree to some extent are valid. You can add to his editor review that he needs to understand how Wikiquette Alerts works in future. Also note that posting messages on specific people's talk pages with the heading "Come and Help" smacks of Canvassing and makes this sound like a gang up session of friends. With all this being said I have happily disengaged from the editor review itself, but will maintain that the removed review should remain on the talkpage for the record.   «l| Promethean ™|l»  (talk) 17:17, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

• The comments were unacceptable personal attacks; recreating them on the talk page after they had been blanked it just astonishing. I've warned Promethean that if I see any such attacks on an editor again I will block them. Fences&Windows 23:51, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
  • Him*   «l| Promethean ™|l»  (talk) 00:45, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

Promethean's misbehavior on other topics is also under discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Promethean_attacking_science_fiction_conventions_en_masse. Raul654 (talk) 01:09, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

Note - Promethean tried to close this thread and I have reverted him. Users are not permitted to close reports of their own misbehavior. I would hope this would be common sense, yet Promethean is obviously lacking in this regard. Raul654 (talk) 18:15, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

"You are complaining about an editor who responded to and possibly closed your previous alert. (Talk with them to get their reasoning on why your alert was closed.)" - It seems I am well within my right to close the discussion. Wikiquette alerts is not a "report" as much as it is a communial discussion between the two parties concerned that either one can close (to my understanding?). Please cease and desist Raul as your involvement here is clearly motivated out of spite of our previous encounter 3 years ago. The ANI thread is closed and this one will most likely follow suit now that Ebe has disengaged and Fence's and Windows has acted on the request. There is nothing further to come on this thread. In any case I have alerted F & W's to your revert of the closure and I am sure he will change it if he feels that I am closing it out of ill intent or to pervert process.   «l| Promethean ™|l»  (talk) 01:25, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

This is closed, right? Raul, WQA is not a place to reopen old wounds. Fences&Windows 23:52, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

User:Will Beback and Sam Vaknin

• Will Beback (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Sam Vaknin (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

User:Will Beback seems to be rampaging through Wikpedia wiping out all Sam Vaknin material, thus undoing hard work done by various people, and also unnecessarily trimming See Alsos.--Penbat (talk) 09:23, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Can you specify what exactly is wrong with this series of edits? If you specify what exactly is wrong, it'll be easier to understand what this alert is for. Silverseren 09:28, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Its not the Sam Vaknin article itself which is the problem its the fact that he has annihilated pretty much all Sam Vaknin material from other articles - see Special:Contributions/Will_Beback--Penbat (talk) 09:36, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

The material I removed is from self-published sources. While editors may disagree with that policy, or my interpretation of it, I don't see this as a Wikiquette issue. Maybe we should discuss this at WP:RSN?   Will Beback  talk  09:33, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

just because a small proportion of his work is self-published that is no excuse to anihilate him from Misplaced Pages. He has also been involved in countless third-party publications and his opinion is commonly sought in high profile journals and newspapers. Also quite a few of the refs used in other articles to his work are third party refs by others.--Penbat (talk) 09:41, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Its one of the drawbacks of a publication like Misplaced Pages, Penbat. What might be perfectly reasonable in another encyclopedia is not allowed here (in my opinion because it limits Misplaced Pages's lawsuit exposure). -- Avanu (talk) 23:20, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

If I've made any errors I'd be happy to fix them. Can you point to the non-SPS citations which I deleted?   Will Beback  talk  09:44, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Unfortunately, rather than discuss it further Penbat1 is just reverting my edits without explanation.   Will Beback  talk  10:14, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

I agree that at least some, probably all, of these sources should be removed. There's no justification, for example, in citing Vaknin's (or anyone else's) self-published material in Empire. See WP:SPS for when we're allowed to use that kind of material. I also agree that this isn't the place to discuss it. SlimVirgin 12:01, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

As we all know, selfpub sources WP:SELFPUB are permitted on Misplaced Pages depending on how and when they are used. Therefore, a blanket deletion of a self pub source would be improper. At the same time, WBB has said he is willing to repair any mistakes, so if specific diffs could be provided then the situation could be corrected as needed.-- — Keithbob • Talk • 14:18, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Agreed. Slef-published material as acceptable and not grounds in and of itself for removal. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 16:47, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

It's grounds for removal when it violates WP:SPS, which is policy, and all or most of these edits did violate it. SlimVirgin 17:06, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Which of user willbebacks edits violated policy ? Off2riorob (talk) 17:28, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Not Will's; he was removing the SPS, correctly, but was reverted. SlimVirgin 17:30, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Are there any edit restrictions in this area, perhaps related to associated sectors that user willbeback is closely associated to editing in, such as Transcendental Meditation, or associated sectors or attached to the sector of LaRouche movement? - It would imo and others that user willbeback would better remove himself from the areas he is associated with and begin editing in areas he is uninvolved in long term association with. Off2riorob (talk) 17:36, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you mean, Rob. The situation is that someone has added an SPS to lots of articles unnecessarily, where there are plenty of other appropriate sources. It looks like spamming. So Will removed some of it, and was reverted. He shouldn't have been reverted, because the material violated SPS. Then for reasons I still don't understand, it was reported here. SlimVirgin 17:48, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

I am looking at the bigger picture - User:Willbeback is a single purpose account editing in support of his own POV across a well known sector of articles and issues, this is exactly the reason a good faith editor has found reason to report him here. Off2riorob (talk) 17:55, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

I strongly disagree with your assessment of Will as an SPA. :) He correctly removed spam. There's no need for a discussion about it here, because the policy is clear about this kind of source, and it was added to articles the source had no remote connection to. SlimVirgin 18:01, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

I know you respect him and support him and that you both edit in some associated fields such as Larouche (diff available if required} but this is worthy of a read - User:Antandrus/observations on Misplaced Pages behavior - 'Beware of users so in love with their own virtue, that they are incapable of recognizing when it has become vice; and so in love with their own eloquence, that they can not see when it has become hypocrisy. The former are those who never admit to any wrong, but yet demand apologies from others for the lapses of judgement to which all human beings are prone; and the latter are the blindest and most intractable of POV-pushers. Skill with words correlates neither with virtue nor wisdom' — Preceding unsigned comment added by Off2riorob (talk • contribs)

It's good advice, which applies to us all. I think this is best closed, because it's clearly inappropriate on this page, and the spamming (or whatever it is) does need to stop—including in the interests of the author himself, who it's worth making clear isn't responsible for it. SlimVirgin 18:10, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Vaknin's material is frequently cited by academics in the field of narcissism etc. see: )) I also happen to know that the following books all reference or cite Vaknin:

• Lisa E. Scott, He's So Vain He Can't See You (2008) p. 8
• Frank H. Columbus/Serge P. Shohow, Advances in Psychology Research, Vol 31 (2004) p. 5
• Simon Crompton, All About Me: Loving a Narcissist (London 2007) p. 31
• David Thomas Narcissism: Behind The Mask (2010) p. 28
• Ronningstam, Elsa F. Identifying and Understanding the Narcissistic Personality (2005) (can't remember the page number)

Vaknin's views on narcissism are considered to be high profile enough to be featured in various articles in the quality press such as "Adrian Tempany When narcissism becomes pathological Financial Times September 4 2010" and in "Yvonne Roberts The monster in the mirror The Sunday Times September 16, 2007" where his opinions are included together with those of other luminaries. See also Megalomaniacs abound in politics/medicine/finance Business Day 2011/01/07 which refers to Vaknin as an "expert" and the first "expert" mentioned by name and the second named "expert" Dr Jose Romero-Urcelay a UK forensic psychiatrist and director of therapies at the unit for dangerous and severe personality disorders at Broadmoor Hospital agrees with him.

It defies any sort of common sense that there are many academic books that cite or reference Vaknin yet it is considered inappropriate that Misplaced Pages can do so. Are we also saying that the quality press such as the Sunday Times and Financial Times have got it wrong by interviewing Vaknin alongside other luminaries ? None of the above newspapers said we cant use him as he is SPS. It is hardly reasonable to find a third party citation of every paragraph that Vaknin has ever written. --Penbat (talk) 17:41, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

I've asked you to give examples of academics citing his research, and you've so far not done it. They sometimes mention him as an example of a sufferer, but that's not what's meant. And anyway, someone had added him to Empire and to an article about Russia. It looked like spamming, and it's not in his interests to do this, in case it looks as though he was the one who did it. SlimVirgin 17:48, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Penbat has been provided opportunity to explain why Will Beback should not have removed these edits and has failed to do so. This discussion thread should be closed. TFD (talk) 01:00, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

I agree that this may not be the best place to discuss this dispute, because personal attacks are not claimed. Figureofnine (talk) 14:28, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

User:Samaleks

• Samaleks (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Kochi (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
• Thiruvananthapuram (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
• Trivandrum International Airport (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
• Cochin International Airport (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
• Technopark, Trivandrum (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

User Samaleks had been targeting me by conducting several violations of Wikiquette.

1. Samaleks had been going against WP:AGF consistently on my edits.
2. Samaleks had been going against the principle of Work towards agreement, by refusing to admit valid arguments presented.
3. Samaleks had been constantly alleging meat puppetry on myself and a few other editors active on these pages, violating the principle of Argue facts, not personalities.
4. Samaleks, on some articles, had been constantly making false claims, where the references cited doesn't support them. At the same time, he dismissed valid references on some other pages. This is in violation of the principle of Do not make misrepresentations
5. Samaleks constantly sidesteps the arguments raised, and repeats vague claims of the reference being mentioning the fact, ignoring requests to point out the specific part of the reference that does. This is in violation of the Do not ignore questions principle.
6. Samalake has used terms in malayalam language that are slurs, violating the principle of Be Civil

Some diffs here. Reading the Talk pages of the articles mentioned above shows a lot of examples of the consistent behaviour of this editor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk:Thiruvananthapuram&diff=prev&oldid=416542591

http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk:Thiruvananthapuram&diff=prev&oldid=416923048

http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk:Thiruvananthapuram&diff=prev&oldid=417377555

http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk:Kochi&diff=prev&oldid=419391169

http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk:Kochi&diff=prev&oldid=419751540

http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk:Kochi&diff=prev&oldid=420249885

http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk:InfoPark,_Kochi&diff=prev&oldid=421665140

http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:Aarem&diff=prev&oldid=417801508

http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:DileepKS69&diff=prev&oldid=420994796

http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:Bijuts&diff=prev&oldid=421843027

Samaleks is a very senior editor, with a lot of good edits to his credit. It is really unfortunate that he is violating Wikiquettes like this. He could very well make positive contribution without resorting to these tactics, if he could forget his own biases and prejudices. I am not seeking any punitive measures by raising this alert. I only wish him to recognize his folly, and act according to Wikiquette.

DileepKS(talk) 14:21, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

oh dear dileep, you was a great actor on wiki!!!. everyone knows about your discussions about wikipages of Kozhikode and Thiruvananthapuram on Kochinow forums. every one viewed it before you deleted that tread fom the forum as you are a moderator there. every one knows about the wars occurred in Skyscapercity forums and the move of the foromers of kochi scc to kochinow forus. you have to move from scc because the moderators there was very strong and they BANNED all the foroumers who triggered the war. you editors also discussed about the mods very abuse fully in kochi now forums.

I don't think the above editor's allegations about you are not wrong. the discussions in kochinow was like that. from the discussions, you editors from kochinow forum has only one thing to do, Glorify Kochi and destroy other city articles and you are doing it very organized and slowly.

here is one of your statements from kochi now

""The only way to deal with the vandals is to be cool, systematic and methodical always. Do
things slowly and steady. Right now, we have removed most of the malicious content. Doing
too much too soon will attract attention, and we will have a war at hand. Let us go easy on
the edits, and do it slow.""

You editors are vandalizing Misplaced Pages in the name of WIKI LAWS. if you are not so biased, why did you deleted the tread against wiki from kochinow forums after it's been mentioned in Misplaced Pages???. everyone knows you will reorganize and continue your discussions through more secure means. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.14.52.212 (talk) 05:18, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

remember dileep: "Not to argue and win but to know and to make known" this will not suit you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.14.52.212 (talk) 05:32, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Dear IP Editor (I am not alleging you are Samaleks, but you seem to always support him). You are welcome to initiate a sock/meat puppetry investigation on any editor, including myself. Let me also mention that you are violating the Argue facts, not personalities principle here.

Let me repeat. I am not requesting any action on Samaleks here. I just want him to realize what he is doing, mend his ways and to follow the Wikiquette. The same applies to you, IP user under 49.xx.xx.xx, because your behaviour also is exactly the same.

DileepKS(talk) 06:19, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

you think i am a sock samaleks because of i supported him?? then i can mention that you and your friends are meat puppets because you supports them everywhere.

old man, if you want him to realize what he is doing, you can talk to him on the talk page instead of writing all these here. and i DONT want to initiate a sock/meat puppetry BIG ""INVESTIGATION"" for finding that you and your beloved ""FRIENDS" are meat puppets. it's clear from your forum discussions. and i send the above message is to REALIZE you that EVERYBODY knows how BIASED YOU ARE. and every one knows how you and your friends organized to edit the page Kochi. i red your forum posts and that's why i supported samaleks.

about my behavior - simple!!! it's better than you!!! i don't try to say "mine is bigger than you" to everyone like you in the forums. also, i don't want your ""principles"". 49.14.85.150 (talk) 06:44, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

Dear IP Editor. Whether you want or not, the principles of wikiquette I quoted are binding on the users of Misplaced Pages. The only way to not adhere to them is to not venture into editing. The very reason I raised this investigation is to draw attention to the fact that Editor Samaleks, and IP Editors like yourself, are not abiding with them.

DileepKS(talk) 07:12, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

User:OhNoitsJamie

• OhNoitsJamie (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Talk:Baby_Got_Back (edit | ] | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

There's an ongoing debate over the inclusion of facetious synposis Baby_Got_Back in which User:OhNoitsJamie is exploiting his administrative privileges and acting in violation with Misplaced Pages guidelines: namely, not being nice to newcomers, refusing discussion, forcing his own opinion onto others.

His position regarding the synopsis itself is (in my opinion) probably correct. What I can't stomach is his high horse attitude. This is NOT how Misplaced Pages should be functioning. This man is an administrator, his actions should be exemplary to other contributors. Instead he behaves like he forgot about his responsibilities and only enjoys his power.

"I agree. There's nothing more for me to add to this conversation, and as I said before, anyone re-adding this or similar synopses will be warned once and blocked. Editors who've already been blocked for it once will be blocked for a longer period. That's all, folks."

This is not how an administrator should act at all. The correct way to resolve this would be to listen to any arguments others might have, and warn them not to change the article unless there's a consensus to do it. Not this "I said no, end of story".

Guess what happened when I wrote him about that? He deleted that message commenting "not useful". Another example of high horse attitude.

Moreover, it turns out he deleted the history revisions containing the synopsis in question, without obtaining any consensus whatsoever with people on the talk page. This is clearly not an action required for keeping[REDACTED] clean, but just a display of his "power" against those who oppose him.

I'm not sure if this warrants a de-admin request as it is, but I at least hope that the community urges user:OhNoitsJamie to reflect on his actions and choose a more tolerable attitude in the future. I hope he remembers that he's not the one deciding anything. He's just a public servant. -- 91.79.20.246 (talk) 09:08, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

I made a Wikiquette complaint about him a week or so ago, and concur - I had the same impression. I've had his talk page on watch since then and it's difficult to see him as a calming influence. I suspect being an admin can be quite a hassle and will get to some people eventually. I don't know much about him till recently, but maybe he's got to that point. DeCausa (talk) 09:39, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Jamie has been dealing with this crap for awhile now, and I don't begrudge him a bit of frustration. This all stems from a dumb internet meme that breaks down dumb pops songs into excruciating, over-analyzed detail that came to AN/I's attention last fall. If people are still trying to jam this junk into articles, they're gonna get what they deserve, IMO. Tarc (talk) 13:49, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Don't know anything about the article in question - I was just noticing from my interaction with him and the stuff on his talk page over the last week or two that he doesn't seem to behave in a way that other admins generally do. DeCausa (talk) 14:07, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

If this administrator is threatening to use his tools in a content dispute, that's serious and should be reported to the Administrators Noticeboard. Figureofnine (talk) 14:30, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

That is not a correct assessment of the situation. The admin in question is not a vested contributor in the article, he was merely there to remove vandalism and sanction the vandals. Tarc (talk) 15:19, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Agree with Tarc. When an admin has been monitoring a known problem on a specific article in their capacity as an admin, then it is within their remit to use their tools on said article should the issues recur. --Jezebel'sPonyo 15:31, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Then there is no issue here. Figureofnine (talk) 15:27, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

See this thread and the original ANI posting. There's been a recent rallying by predominiately SPA's to attempt to bring the silly synopsis back, resulting in protection of the article. Yes, I do find the whole thing very tiresome. A few revisions were deleted per as being "purely disruptive," an interpretation I stand by. I should note that following the protection, a contributor completed a well-done expansion of the article that conforms with policy guidelines. OhNoitsJamie 15:35, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Being tired is no justification for being a bad admin. As long as someone's willing to hold a proper discussion, the discussion should be held. If you feel you cannot stay neutral and support it, it's a clear sign you should call another administrator and abstain from participating yourself. Not that you should declare your opinion final and threaten to ban people who stubbornly disagree with you. -- 91.79.23.181 (talk) 17:18, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

Except it still was a content dispute, because there were people that believed this content satisfied all the rules of[REDACTED] and were ready to support their claims in discussion. They just got slapped in their face by this admin. "I said no, so no". -- 91.79.23.181 (talk) 17:30, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

I'm sure being an administrator is a difficult job. It is not something most people could do well. It is my experience and belief that User:Ohnoitsjamie is, at present, ill suited to the task of Misplaced Pages administrator. I was one of the editors who argued in favor of the inclusion of the synopsis at Talk:Baby Got Back. My initial editorial action on this article was to revert his deletion and to call for discussion on the talk page prior to deletion of a section. No substantive discussion had previously been held. For this action (one reversion and a call for discussion) I was summarily issued a final warning and threat to block. This editor has consistently violated the assumption of good faith policy and uses intimidation as his primary argumentative tool. I would suggest he be removed immediately as an administrator. Furthermore, there is a small group of about 3 editors who troll articles looking for hip-hop translations/interpretations and vigorously delete them. They have invented their own new Misplaced Pages policy which is referred to as the "Verbose meme". Yes, perhaps the synopsis on this page should have been removed or modified and that argument was over months ago when I got no support from any other editors. But, to emaciate the history of the article simply as a way to support your jihad against hip-hop lyric translation is over the top. This, i consider vandalism. His reason for the history deletions is that the revisions were "purely disruptive". That means this editor is stating that my revision re-instating the synopsis (which he has deleted) was purely disruptive. I must take exception. I argued, I think, quite correctly that the synopsis was not original research. The only legitimate argument for its deletion was the claim that it is original research. It is not. It is simply a translation from hip-hop slang to English. To claim that my edit was purely disruptive is false and provides additional evidence of this editor's utter disregard for the assumption of good faith. Please read the discussion at Talk:Baby_Got_Back#Synopsis and Talk:Baby_Got_Back#Content_of_Synopsis to see the tenor and nature of this discussion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Doctorfree (talk • contribs) 05:52, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

This is not a forum for requesting disciplinary action against an administrator. I think this topic should be closed. Figureofnine (talk) 17:22, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

• Jamie's reaction to the protracted silliness on this article is understandable, and certainly not grounds to make sweeping claims like "ill suited to the task of Misplaced Pages administrator". DeCausa's complaint last week was valid, if minor (IMHO). This one isn't. --Floquenbeam (talk) 18:30, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

It is not my intention to request disciplinary action or argue the merits of editorial actions. I simply put forth my experiences with this editor in support of the claim he is acting in violation of Misplaced Pages guidelines with respect to his interaction with other editors. User:Ohnoitsjamie issued a final warning and threat to block with no initial warning after I had made a single revert with comment calling for discussion. He refused to listen to discussion, called me disruptive for calling for discussion ("I'm not going to engage in a debate with someone pretending to not be in on the joke; it's a waste of time"), accused me of wikilawyering when I quoted Misplaced Pages policy in support of my contention the edit was not original research, deleted 20 revisions of an article's history without discussion and claims consensus was reached to do so, and has consistently shown little regard for the assumption of good faith when addressing other editors in discussion. Maybe I just walked into a fire fight and this editor had had enough so I was treated like the other potentially disruptive editors he had been dealing with. I do not know. However, disagreement is not disruptive and it seems if one disagrees with User:Ohnoitsjamie they are likely to be considered disruptive and blocked. Ronald Joe Record (talk) 17:12, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

user:Arthur Smart - bigotry & personal attacks

• Arthur Smart (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Misplaced Pages:WikiProject_Conservatism/About_us

The editor wrote that the vision statement for Wikiproject Conservatism is "bald-faced lie", and "that lie's chief perpetrator." In the edit summary he wrote "are all conservatives liars, or just the creator of this project." Accusing me of lying, and then actually calling me a liar is a clear violation of WP:NPA. The edit sum reveals a bigotry against conservatives.

Several times I explained to him that the vision statement was aspirational, which is typical for vision statements. Unfortunately his hatred of conservatives has blinded him to all reason resulting in this anti-conservative, bigoted and disruptive outburst. Lionel (talk) 20:49, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

You know, this isn't going to get very far when the statement that he was accusing you of lying about was "WikiProject Conservatism is the recognized world wide resource for documenting the conservative movement". When he changed that to "aspires someday to be", you reverted it back to the inaccurate statement. Accusing him of bigotry here is a personal attack, so why don't you both just stop insulting the other and go back to editing articles? --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 20:57, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

1. This is not an article. It is a wikiproject subpage.
2. A vision statement by definition is "the way an organization or enterprise will look in the future." Based on the definition Arthur's edit is deficient. He is under the mistaken assumption that a vision statement must be a provable statement.
3. But that isn't the point: Arthur called me a liar, and disparaged all conservatives.Lionel (talk) 21:21, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

I agree with Sarek. The "visions statement" obviously isn't true, and this is a silly dispute which has nothing to do with improving the encyclopedia.   Will Beback  talk  22:15, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

"Insulting each other?" I did not call him a name. I described behavior. His edit summary was a derogatory blanket generalization of an entire group of people and I wrote that it was a "bigoted...outburst." (Ital mine.) And when you make a derogatory blanket generalization, well, it's properly referred to as bigotry. There is no BOOMERANG here. Lionel (talk) 22:24, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

I agree with you Will that fighting over this subpage is silly. The page in question is a step above a user page, and has no readers. Question: does it matter if a vision statement is true, and if yes, on what do you base that? Lionel (talk) 22:50, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Project pages are part of the project. Writing obviously incorrect statements is unhelpful and fighting over them is just pugnacious. If the statement is contentious then just delete it. Every Wikiproject has the same goal - improving the articles within its topic.   Will Beback  talk  22:55, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Wtshymanski and the transistor AfDs

• Wtshymanski (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

This stems from a series of thirteen deletions for electronics component articles. A convenient list is here. The disparaging comments are Wtshymanski's.

These were PROD'ed, rejected, than AfD'ed. For the purpose of WQA it's not just the behaviour to this point that is at issue, but behaviour since. This has been an unusually ill-tempered (and single-handedly so) set of AfDs with a tenacious amount of flogging a dead horse afterwards.

The basic premise behind these deletions is that, "parts list articles are not notable". These components are all real electronic components, with a huge range of references behind them from any number of standard parts handboooks. Yet this does not, allegedly, confer notability. The problem is some variant of WP:MILL: simply existing and being recorded as such is not notable, in the way that a phone number is not notable, despite being well catalogued. Only components with some real claim to distinctive novelty could be said to be "noteworthy", and thus considered WP:Notable.

The strange part is that no-one, even at the AfDs, seems to disagree with this principle. The dissent is that these components are, by and large, reckoned to be that handful of components that do meet the more stringent criteria for being noteworthy.

AfDs

Most of the debate seemed to take place on this AfD, the rest being somewhat repetitive.

• Misplaced Pages:Articles_for_deletion/2N3055

These in turn gave rise to a centralised discussion

• Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_deletion#Mass_deletion_of_electronic_components

Behaviour during this AfD was far from ideal. In particular, I don't believe that AGF extends to comparing other editors to a psychotic murderer.

Talk page comments from other editors, re behaviour

• User_talk:Wtshymanski#2N3055
• User_talk:Wtshymanski#transistors_and_stuff
• User_talk:Wtshymanski#Component_article_deletion
• User_talk:Wtshymanski#Voicing_concern (another electronics article, an undiscussed redirect)

Some rare support:

• User_talk:Wtshymanski#Thank_you
• User_talk:Wtshymanski#Group_behavior

The AfDs have now mostly closed as keeps. There is some support for deleting a couple where it's agreed that they are indeed just "parts list" items.

So far, process seems to have worked just as it ought and an excess of zeal by one editor has been compensated for. However behaviour since really is getting beyond a joke. They seem incapbable of making any comment without a sarcastic edit summary, they refuse to recognise that there is any other valid viewpoint:

• Just not notable
• Ambles off, humming Every Sperm is Sacred
• Nothing is constructive here, if you get right down to it.
• Meanwhile, the guys in the Spock ears are saying "Get a life!"
• Let's mention that they are usually black, and have wire leads while we're at it.
• Fraudulent excuse of an item that pertends to be an article

Shortly after one AfD closed as keep, they re-tagged it for notability - yet isn't this what was just discussed?

• Tagging BC548 for notability

This is an editor who refuses to respect consensus, or that he might be "right yet outvoted", and that in the interests of the encyclopedia it's time to put the stick down and leave the horse be.

This is not the working atmosphere we're supposed to have to put up with. This editor's behaviour is intolerable. Andy Dingley (talk) 21:06, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

Bad articles need to be improved. Un-notable topics need to be removed. The edit summaries are my relief from endlessly typing "rv v" and help to remind me later what the nature of the edit was. And I'm not plural, there's only one of me. --Wtshymanski (talk) 21:14, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

I understand the "rvv" thing. I do a lot of that myself, it's not a good atmosphere to work in because first you start to see every anon IP as a vandal, then every editor, then every edit. It's all too easy to forget that some edits to WP are actually constructive and that not every editor is a poo-obsessed twelve year old.

However the edits here are not vandalism. It is wrong of you to approach them in that way. Leave the vandal patrol be for a day or two if you have to and work on the good stuff instead. Andy Dingley (talk) 09:08, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

I don't object to the notability tagging; I do that somethings on articles that are kept after AfD, to remind editors that evidence of notability still needs to be cited. The problem is just that Wtshymanski won't lose the attitude. His calling everything a "parts list item", "Radio Shack catalog", and such is just pouring on negativity, where forward progress is possible. If he can't accept the decision, it would be best to just walk away from these articles. Dicklyon (talk) 01:37, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Well, we're either writing an encyclopedia, or something else. If the only substantial facts in an article are breakdown voltage and current rating, and the JEDEC package number, coupled with some praise words and ad talk from some hobby magazine or TAB book, then it's a parts list entry masquerading as an encyclopedia article. I'm not calling everything a parts list entry, I'm calling these rather useless items parts list entries. Forward progress is not possible, sources either don't exist or are unsuitable for Misplaced Pages usage, and all we've got is repeated appearances in parts lists. If there were sources, they would have turned up before or during this Article Improvement Drive. If you were grading an assignment on, oh, say, "Silicon diodes" or "electronics" or "The Semiconductor Industry", you'd have to give a failing grade to this sorry collection of inaccurately copied data sheet parameters. This is aside from the rather undignified obsession with minutia that so characterizes many Misplaced Pages topics; learn all about the printing of menus in the dining car, but nothing about the railway. --Wtshymanski (talk) 02:43, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

We're not writing an encyclopedia — at least I'm not — instead I'm sat here with the IEEE paper on the 2N3055 in one hand (a very good read) and thinking that I should be writing an encyclopedia, but then I think "What's the point?" because someone is being such a persistent negative jerk about these same articles. Your attitude is a major disincentive to anyone bothering to do the very fixes you claim to be wanting done. You're not doing it (you're too busy carping), I'm not doing it because I don't want to work on articles under those conditions. Andy Dingley (talk) 09:00, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Tragic. Then let's delete the rubbish until someone more resolute feels moved to properly write an article. That should happen, oh, say, around 2037 or so if we're lucky, based on zero progress in 3 years and 1 sourced fact added this month. --Wtshymanski (talk) 13:37, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

{{outdent} The good news is, no one was working on these articles before the AfDs, either, so at least the situation is no worse. --Wtshymanski (talk) 13:44, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

User:L-l-CLK-l-l

• L-l-CLK-l-l (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

It's a little much to take for a 17 year old child who's been here barely a year to be taking the kind of tone User:L-l-CLK-l-l has at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/The Writer (song), accusing an experienced editor of more than six years of knowing nothing about[REDACTED] policy and (with no basis whatsoever) being pointy. Perhaps I'm being oversensitive, but that seems bloody rude to me. - Simon Dodd { U·T·C·WP:LAW } 04:15, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

WP:POINT. Is reporting me for disagreeing with his view (as well as every other editor on the deletion page has agreed with me). I did nothing wrong as you can see on the page, i explained the actual rule and because he doesnt like it he is reporting me. - (CK)Lakeshade - talk2me - 04:18, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

You both seem quite able to work this out between yourselves. Prodego 04:20, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Oh please. You explained your ridiculous crabbed misinterpretation of the policy and threw in some comments that are grossly inappropriate for a newbie. Get off your high horse, apologize for your insolent tone, and make arguments based on what the policy actually has. Geez! Clearly this is just about a disagreement on policy, which is why you are the only user who stated a contrary view who has been criticized here. *eyeroll* - Simon Dodd { U·T·C·WP:LAW } 04:27, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

A newbie? That's why i have 10 GA and FA's. Yes im a newbie so my logic must be flawed, i mean that's why 5 other editors (i can find dozens more if you wish) that argue with my "misinterpretation" of policy. Im done discussing this now, have a nice day. - (CK)Lakeshade - talk2me - 04:34, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

You've a child and you've been here scarcely more than a year; I've been here for six. I was editing articles here before you hit puberty. Don't lecture me on policy, kid.- Simon Dodd { U·T·C·WP:LAW } 04:36, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Sounds to me like you need to take a step back. You can make your points in a more civil way. RxS (talk) 04:56, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

You're right, and in a few minutes I shall, but you've been here about as long as I have (indeed, you're an admin), so how would you feel if a child who's been here about twenty minutes showed up and starts telling you how you don't understand WP policy? "Insolent" barely covers it. And this is in the context of a 15 year old canvassing his buddies and this 17 year old getting mouthy. Unbelievable! Who the hell do they think they are? - Simon Dodd { U·T·C·WP:LAW } 05:06, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Well, here's the deal. There's a long held standard here that you need to comment on the edits and not the editor. You need to work on that. Commenting on someones age, tenure etc won't get you anywhere (fast). It's rude and doesn't contribute to what's suppose to be a collaborative project. RxS (talk) 05:19, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

@Simon. First off, some diffs would help.

Secondly, what's wrong with newbies? What's wrong with 17 year olds? Maybe nearly every 17 year old newbie is a rubbish editor, grammatically illiterate and a borderline vandal. That still wouldn't mean that they all are. In the case here, we seem to have an editor of some evident competence, an edit count of 7,000 (which is more than yours!) and even if we threw AGF away and replaced it with "Respect experience", they'd still deserve a bit more credit than you're showing them. Edits, not editor is what matters here. Andy Dingley (talk) 09:15, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

I think this discussion is just silly. I see no problem with etiquette here, other than you. What does it matter how old the user is, and how many years they've been here? LICKI was in no way being rude to you, just disagreeing on a topic at hand. Also, if you actually read the "when reporting" section here, it states:

1. Try to phrase it in neutral and non-judgemental language. Posting in haste and anger could add fuel to the fire, rather than helping to improve matters, thus try to avoid posting while upset.
2. Include diffs that show the problem. (A guide to creating diffs is here). Supply a simple explanation of the problem, along with the involved parties and a link to the page(s) where the problem is happening - avoid an extensive discussion of the problem or issue on this page
3. Remember the aim is to move the dispute towards resolution, and that all helpers are volunteers (therefore the amount of time it may take to receive a response will vary). If the circumstances change since your original posting then please update your alert. If you have not received help and the problem escalates, please edit your alert to inform us that you have reported it elsewhere.
4. Do not continue your discussion in detail here. Instead, continue discussing it at its original location. As long as your alert contains a link to the relevant discussions it will be seen.

You have done none of the above. ℥ 10:39, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Simon. this edit is utterly inappropriate. :S Attacking editors in this fashion is not on; the fact that Lakeside is young, and edits in an area you consider "worthless" doesn't make it OK to dismiss him and his views. Misplaced Pages is a great leveller; yes, bring your experience and knowledge to the table, but stay open minded. After all, at some point in the past your elders probably frowned on the music you liked as "worthless" :) Lakeside; in future try to be a little calmer & less confrontational in your defence of others. --Errant 11:08, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

I assume that at 50 years of age and 50,000+ edits, I'm sufficiently mature to have an opinion, and that opinion is this: using editors' ages as a baseball bat to club them with violates WP:NPA, and I will treat future statements along that line as a blockable offense. For the record, I am the sole editor that has agreed that the articles Simon has nominated for deletion should be merged into another article.—Kww(talk) 17:35, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Simon Dodd seems to want to be saying "this noob kid is irritating me, please join me in attacking him", whereas what I read is "I'm going well over the top and the WP:BOOMERANG is going to hit me smack in the face soon". Kww is right, if the kind of comments in this thread continue then Simon's going to get blocked. WQA is for resolving disputes and calming arguments, not furthering them. Fences&Windows 22:36, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Agree with the above, Simon's comments in this tread alone are very inappropriate. Swarm 19:04, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

User:Rikster2 -- Inappropriate behavior and personal attacks

• Rikster2 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Justin Watts

User was extremely rude and condescending during AfD. User threatened to nominate for deletion other articles I had worked on if I didn't leave the discussion. His exact words were: "Stand down, buddy." I then said that I didn't find the threat and order constructive, trying to return the conversation back to the discussion at hand. User replied by again telling me to "stand down," and nominating one of the before mentioned articles for deletion (result: no consensus). User later made several other inappropriate comments during the discussion: 1) "I am done with what is a pretty clear case of failed notability and interested in hearing other opinions. You have made your "case." If you'd like to continue to do so, knock yourself out." User continued to participate in the discussion after this statement. 2) "Shut up." 3) "Blueman, nice presumptive close." Blueman33 (talk) 10:47, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

The User tried to intimidate me from sharing my opinion, made a threat, followed through with the threat, and made multiple rude comments. Blueman33 (talk) 10:50, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

None of this was my intent from the discussion referenced. "Stand down" only meant that I knew from past experience that the AfD would be supported (and it was). statement 1) was after blueman33 essentially tried to dominate the discussion to get his article through. The full quote for 2) was "Now how about you and I both shut up - both of our opinions are abundantly clear" - meant that both he and I had given our opinion and that others should be allowed to express their opinions. 3) I don't know what to say, it was a presumptive close ("it" being his statement: "I think we're reaching the logical conclusion of this discussion") - as was his characterizing the article as "Easy keep" when it clearly wasn't. I didn't see that as particularly insulting. "Leslie McDonald" was nominated for deletion because it was similar to other artilces that had been discussed. Bottom line - I didn't do anything wrong. I would recommend that anyone considering this complaint read the whole AfD for Watts - starting with the notification I put on the user's talk page about applying the AfD to Watts (found here). I was very polite. If you read the Watts AfD discussion, you will see that user Blueman33 often took a mocking tone to those who opposed his POV. I find it kind of amusing that he is now trying to cry foul. He dishes as much or more as he takes. Rikster2 (talk) 11:33, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

1) I was not trying to dominate any conversation, including the one in question. This is, again, a false accusation. I, like several other users (including the user in question), did post multiple statements in that discussion (link above). I wouldn't even be surprised if a few others posted more than I did. "Stand down, buddy," during an AfD is rude and inappropriate period, and has no place in Misplaced Pages. Exact quote: "OK, I'll be happy to put Knox, McDonald, Strickland and Bullock up for AfD too. None of those guys meet the criteria either. The criteria for college athletes is pretty strict and it's linked above. Stand down, buddy." The user clearly threatened me, and when I did not obey the order, he/she followed through with the threat (nominated Leslie McDonald for deletion; result=no consensus). We should be encouraging discussion, not stifling it when we don't agree. 2) Just because one includes others or oneself in a "shut up," doesn't make it any less insulting. In each of the above two cases, I made it clear that I did not think the user's behavior was appropriate, and instead of apologizing, the user attempted to justify his or her actions. 3) If I did post anything inappropriate, I invite anyone to please show as much. -Blueman33 (talk) 17:03, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Great, we have a different interpretation of events. I will let whomever monitors and decides on these things read the AfD in question and make their own determination. If I get a ban or a suspension out of it, so be it (though I seriously doubt that will happen). As I said, I didn't do anything wrong and you have misinterpreted my comments. You are also making a bigger deal out of this than it deserves and have made no attempt to solve it with me before initiating this. You also didn't notify me that you'd even started this entry about me, which would have been proper form. Rikster2 (talk) 17:36, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Looks to me like you've both locked horns and that the best thing to do would be to disengage. Rikster, calling someone "buddy" in that context is condescending, please don't be so confrontational. Blueman, it's not worth getting so riled with one nominator when it was consensus as judged by the closing admin that led to deletion of the article, not simply the nomination. I'd suggest that you both let others comment here instead of continuing to argue. Fences&Windows 22:32, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, Fences. I'm not complaining about the AfD or the result (obviously I disagree with it, but that's not my complaint). My complaint is Rikster2's behavior in the AfD. A simple apology could have cleared the whole thing up. I gave Rickster multiple opportunities to apologize, but as you can see, he/she still doesn't think he/she did anything wrong. That's the problem. -Blueman33 (talk) 03:23, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

User:Orangemarlin

• Orangemarlin (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Overseer19XX (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Harassment (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

This user find himself editing my talk page in a disruptive, and disrespectful way on a near daily basis. keeps telling me he will have me blocked/banned for this and that, and when i called creationism link "science" he proceeded to come to my talk page and post http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:Overseer19XX&direction=next&oldid=421142976 clearly the user has a lack of respect for others, and is not only bias in his edits, but appears bigoted in some of the things he has posted on my talk page. we do not need users with his kind of couth. He has made it apparent that he will not stop harassing me on my talk page. I hope this resolves this dispute. Overseer19XX (talk) 03:43, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Also http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Civility#Identifying_incivility Overseer19XX (talk) 03:53, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

What I'm seeing is some mutual animosity over a content dispute. Threatening to spam someone's talk page will probably not rank highly in the echelons of dispute resolution. OhNoitsJamie 03:58, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Also not the first time. http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Wikiquette_alerts/archive36#User:Orangemarlin

Or the second http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Wikiquette_alerts/archive36#User:Orangemarlin_.282.29

Or third http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Wikiquette_alerts/archive47#User:Orangemarlin

and again http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Wikiquette_alerts/archive19#User:Filll.2C_User:Orangemarlin.2C_User:Jim62sch not sure why i am on this page, i should be requesting a outright ban based on his history of disrespect of others.Overseer19XX (talk) 04:00, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Well, that wouldn't happen even if you asked, but okay.

I will say, Orangemarlin, your behavior is inappropriate. You're expending more effort engaging in a flame war with this editor than simply letting his proposals fail (and looking them over, they're guaranteed to).

I understand your irritation, when a user appears and begins insistently asking that pages (and policies) change to fit his world view (or that of his religion), but we all pretty much feel that way. No one is going to budge on these policies, and roasting him over them on his own talk page is just egregious.

That said, Overseer, this behavior needs to stop from both sides. Stop talking about each other- talk about the policies. --King Öomie 16:53, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

King....come on, this civility shit has got to stop. My behavior is totally appropriate for a one-track editor–note that every single one of his article edits have been reverted. We have shown the editor an incredible amount of tolerance...I'm sick of it. Maybe he will actually do some good for the project, but since he's on an anti-pornography roll, I'm going to doubt that. So, if you're going to lecture me....don't. Check my edits. I actually contribute here. Or don't, and just think that civility matters more than content. And that's just bullshit. OrangeMarlin 18:22, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

My point is that since it's clear his edits and policy proposals are non-starters, I don't see the point in taking this mocking tone with him. It's not going to make him stop- the collective "Umm, no" from the community will do that- you've added the additional goal of making you lose.

Incidentally, yes, I'm not of the opinion that even an editor with a streak of genuinely BAD edits is fair game for sarcastic mocking. --King Öomie 18:56, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Let me just point out that this is not isolated behavior. Orangemarlin pulled this on me extensively when I was a new editor, and he's tried it again a couple of times recently , , , , . As the second diff makes explicit, he styles himself as a "NPOV-pusher", and on certain kinds of articles that means that he is blustery, aggressive and opinionated to a point just shy of pugnacious. My advice is to read wp:BAIT - not that I think OM is doing anything intentional in that regard, but if one focuses too much on dealing with his more irrational actions other editors may use him as a stalking horse - and to ask him direct questions about his opinions. OM sometimes makes good points in unclear ways that are worth digging out, while his more argumentative statements are almost impossible to justify using policy, reason, or common sense. Calmly asking him to explain himself will produce interesting insights where he has them and otherwise guide him towards productive silence. --Ludwigs2 18:42, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

Marauder40, incivility crossing the line into personal attacks

• Marauder40 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

After I brought two sources from Christianity and abortion to RSN, Marauder40 has been accusing me of bias because I don't believe they are reliable.

• In which I am allegedly anti-Catholic:
• In which I am allegedly letting my "bias" get in the way of good editing:
• In which I am allegedly pushing a POV:
• In which I am allegedly ignorant of theology: (NB this is an aspersion on my intelligence, not on my disinterestedness, but in the context of these other remarks, it reads very much like "You are not Catholic and thus are not qualified to edit on this topic." I state on my user page that I am Jewish.)

Per WP:NPA, unsubstantiated accusations about user conduct constitute personal attacks. I informed the user of this, whereupon he repeated, several times, the accusation. I invite anyone to review my editing to see if the accusations are reasonable. This sort of talk is destructive to the mission of the encyclopedia. We need to evaluate content based on its merits, not on the accusations of bias thrown at editors who support or oppose the addition of the content. Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 20:05, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

I believe the diffs speak for themselves. The things she is saying that I am saying are not contained anywhere within the statements. She is inserting her own POV into the statements. I at no time call her anti-Catholic, I haven't even viewed her user page, and it is only now that I found out that she is Jewish (although that knowledge doesn't change a thing.) The most I have done is accuse her of having a bias. Everyone that is human has a bias, it is properly managing that bias that makes someone a valuable WP editor. Many of the things she said I said are her own infernce and was never said.Marauder40 (talk) 20:12, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Is there a different term you would use to describe "You want to disqualify any source written by a Catholic"?

Your claim that you've done nothing but accuse me of having a bias is also obviously false, as seen from the above diffs - you've accused me several times of letting my bias get in the way of my work and of POV-pushing. Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 20:19, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

The quote you give above does not exist in any of the diffs. The entire thought is taken out of context. Let the diffs speak for themselves. How about re-reading everything and AGF instead of thinking it is combative.Marauder40 (talk) 20:31, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

"Your bias is getting in the way of your objectivity." Are you going to claim that a younger sibling wrote that when you were away from the computer? Or are you going to own up to what you yourself wrote and acknowledge that the AGF problem might be with your assessment of my editing? Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 20:37, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

I am totally disengaging from you since you seem to be letting your anger get in the way of anything productive. As I said before if you are getting upset at someone saying you have a bias, then you may be editing in the wrong arena. I will henceforth only respond to other editors on this.Marauder40 (talk) 20:41, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Storm in a teacup...a bit heated (not surprising on the topic) but nothing more. Not really serious enough to be brought up here - I think it's more about personal pique, and R. would be better to step away from it all. I'm curious about the links for In which I am allegedly anti-Catholic. Has Roscelese but the wrong diffs in? I really can't see where that allegation is made, or anything remotely like it. DeCausa (talk) 21:07, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

This is where Marauder40 claims that I want to reject every source written by a Catholic. In my opinion, that sort of bias is adequately described as anti-Catholicism, but perhaps you and M40 can imagine a way in which the desire to reject all sources by Catholics just because they are Catholic is not biased. Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 21:16, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

"If you have to disqualify them just because they promote Catholic teaching you would have to disqualify ANYTHING said by the church or anyone that agrees with the church" is not a claim that you want to reject every source written by a Catholic. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 21:23, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Agreed. It's rather thin-skinned to translate that into "anti-catholic". DeCausa (talk) 21:28, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

I disagree. I don't see a way in which accusing me of wanting to remove "EVERY source written by a Catholic" is not claiming that I want to remove every source written by a Catholic. Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 21:34, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Alright, I see the problem. You're saying that the source doesn't necessarily accurately present the view of the organization it's referring to (the roman catholic church) because of its bias; Marauder thinks the source is accurate (I don't have an opinion on that), and your point is moot- thus, to justify removing that source because of its bias, you'd have to remove ALL catholic sources (again assuming this source is accurate, which would imply that all other catholic sources would agree). I'm pretty sure this is a misunderstanding. --King Öomie 06:08, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

If it were about "Catholic sources" I wouldn't consider that an accusation of bias, though it's still a distortion of my position. However, Maurauder says that I'd like to remove sources written by Catholics. If I'd actually suggested that sources written by Catholics were inherently unreliable, I could probably be blocked for that, and I'd deserve it - why should it be acceptable to toss out this false accusation of blockable behavior in order to discredit my noticeboard post? Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 07:42, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

Kingoomieiii, although the merits of the discussion itself shouldn't be important on this page. The problem isn't about the individual source at all. As written on the page the discussion is about the organization "Catholic Answers" as a whole and saying they aren't a RS. In her own words because they are "anti-abortion advocates". Catholic Answers is no more an anti-abortion advocate then any organization that follows the Catholic church and its teachings. To throw out a source on that basis alone would be the same as throwing out sources from every organization that follows the teachings of the church.Marauder40 (talk) 14:35, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

You are taking a bit of a logic jump there, Marauder. "Catholic Answers" is one source which says it follows the teachings of the Catholic Church. This does not mean that they are, and it also does not mean that other sources that state the same thing are following the teachings of the Catholic Church.

Whether or not something is a reliable source depends on the person or group publishing it, the specific context, and the specific way it is used. You can't simply say something like "The New York Times is ALWAYS a reliable source for every purpose" because it is not. -- Avanu (talk) 17:59, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

As I said before, discussion on the merit of the base arguement itself shouldn't really be taking place here, but on the reliable sources noticeboard or the actual article itself. If you were on those pages you would have seen where I mentioned the fact that I said that no reason has been validly given for throwing out Catholic Answers as a whole as a reliable source, that every article, book, quote, etc. needs to be evaluated on a case by case basis. The other editor was claiming that everything that Catholic Answers publishes should be thrown out because in her mind they are "anti-abortion advocates." Like I said this stuff should really be discussed there. This should be reserved for any perceived wikiquette violations so that we aren't having multiple conversations.Marauder40 (talk) 00:24, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

Would you like to retract your previous claim that I'd like to remove any source written by a Catholic? That would probably be the best way to resolve this, though it would also be nice if you'd retract your obviously false claims that my "bias" is causing problems with my editing. Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 15:41, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

I will not retract anything I said because the statements as I wrote them are exactly what I meant and what I feel. Your reading of other things into what I wrote besides what I actually wrote is your problem, pure and simple. Other editors do not see what you see in what I wrote.Marauder40 (talk) 00:14, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

User: 50.80.139.102

• 50.80.139.102 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

User 50.80.139.102 has personally attacked me and been uncivil. I´ve asked him to review WP policies and refrain from this behavior, and to to stop personal attacks. I placed a Welcome template to his Talk page to welcome and educate him. I would appreciate an adminstrator ask him to leave me alone. Thanks. Kilmer-san (talk) 03:32, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

You already warned them; the standard procedure for IPs is generally escalating warnings. If they're here in good faith, they'll take heed of them. Swarm 19:17, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

User:ClaudioSantos, the Socialist Patients' Collective and Talk:SPK

• ClaudioSantos (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Talk:SPK (edit | ] | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
• Talk:Members of the Red Army Faction (edit | ] | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

I think a third opinion is necessary as I'm involved in a situation that has been degenerating into an edit war.

The user ClaudioSantos seems to be pretty much a single-purpose account on behalf of the Socialist Patients' Collective (also known as the SPK).

Just to give a little context on the SPK, it is a group which had already caused a fair amount of trouble both in the Spanish and in the English Misplaced Pages projects around 2004-2006 through vandalism, trolling (like in , in Spanish), propaganda and false claims (for example, , answered here - I could add more links if you want, although they're not really central to the subject I'd like to talk about). The SPK insists that any material linking it, or even some of its historical members, to the Red Army Fraction, must be removed. WP:BLP is usually cited as a reason.

As for ClaudioSantos himself, he has been using unnecessarily strong wording towards me (for instance, I can quote from this single message, , up to five disparaging statements: "seems not even able to make a simple sum", "unable to read and understand this", "copiers like this little Sabbut", "desired toy", "fetishism?"). He also tends to use terms such as "libel" and "defamation" (for example, ), which have a specific meaning and could be thought of as a legal threat, which is not allowed.

There are issues on the articles on the Socialist Patients' Collective (which, in my opinion, ClaudioSantos has pretty much changed into an advertisement) and on members of the SPK such as Sieglinde Hofmann and Brigitte Mohnhaupt, as well as cross-wiki issues which may be relevant or not here in the English language Misplaced Pages. All of this is a pretty long discussion. However, I will now move to a more specific subject, which is the reason I'm writing this message.

That is Talk:SPK. Here goes the story:

• ClaudioSantos restored a text containing a legal threat that had already been erased several times in 2005 (, , , , ) and again by me recently .
• Once I pointed out that it was in fact a legal threat and that it didn't belong in a talk page, he replaced the quote with a simple link to the specific edition of that talk page containing the legal threat, claiming that "Libelous material causes serious damage to living people. Aggresively warning on libelous material is not a threat, even per WP:No_legal_threats#What_is_not_a_legal_threat" .
• Once I pointed out WP:LEGAL another time, he changed his wording into "Hostile and mendacious material against patients from SPK, causes serious damage to living people" .
• After that, once I pointed out that there was nothing that could possibly be qualified as "hostile" or "mendacious" in SPK (the page associated to Talk:SPK, which is a disambiguation page), he reverted the whole discussion ... but moved his claims to Talk:Members of the Red Army Faction instead (see history). That talk page already contains pretty much the same kind of accusations, so basically repeating the same message one more time would seem unnecessary. Also, trying to include a legal threat by any means is something I would qualify as "trying to game the system". In fact, I would qualify his attitude throughout this story in the same way.
• So...I revert his message, he reverts my revert and so on.

So now I decide to stop a moment, avoid getting into a full-fledged edit war and ask for a third opinion on this mess. Sabbut (talk) 19:06, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

It appears to me that this user has certainly crossed the boundaries of acceptable behavior. In my opinion, their overall behavior of making personal attacks, nasty assumptions of bad faith (accusing you of being paid for POV pushing), flagrantly throwing around comments that lawyers and judges are involved with the matter, re-adding a message that had been taken and removed as a legal threat several times in the past, etc., constitutes disruption. I have warned them for the behavior, and if it continues, return here and I will report it to ANI, or you can do so yourself; either option is recommended, especially given the user's history of disruption both here and at the Spanish Misplaced Pages. Swarm 20:01, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

User:Sabbut is not being personally attacked but certainly User:Sabbut published in[REDACTED] the identity of a patient against his will and with out his permission and then used his privileges to delete his contribution. Here I don't want to remember who was the user who abusively published also his self-made picture of the building of Krankheit Im Recht (illness in right - pathopractic with lawyers, part of the PF/SPK(H)); but certainly User:Sabbut published a materia claiming false allegations against SPK claiming theese people were terrorists, an allegation that finally had to be hide, as it was demonstrated that terrorism is a crime (legal threat?) that did not even exist in the time of the trials against SPK, so it was certainly defamatory content that should be deleted per WP:BLP (as this policy explicity says "defamatory material", is it a legal threat? am I legal threating when I just refers in the same words of this policy? whatever). User:Sabbut published contentious material dealing with living people but without any reference and avoid this material to be deleted, even against the WP policies about living people although he was warned that it was causing serious damage to this people. What you should consider a legal threat, a harrasment and a very serious misconduct is that an user has accused current people of PF/SPK as being terrorists , a friend of Sabbut who Sabbut recomend to be asked about "my behaviour". Well, precisely these users together with some other users used their admin privileges to expulse me from WP.es precisely because I agressively -as recomended by WP-policies- deleted contentious material against living people (see WP:BLP#Remove_unsourced_or_poorly_sourced_contentious_material. Unsourced material that for example accused people of terrorism but material that for instance finally they deleted from wikipedia.es but after they assumed bad faith and accused of sock-puppetry another user because he also noticed that I was right and also deleted the contentious unreferenced material (see and until now they even desetimated the proposals of this other user to correct the[REDACTED] article about SPK in the es.wikipedua. Therefore, the minimal to do is to warn that a content is causing serious damage to this people and is perhaps just a bad joke to assumme that I am threating anyone. Actually the article about red army faction members has an advice warning that it is very bad referenced although it deals a lot of times on living people, even the part dealing with SPK has a lot of names without any reference and in the talk page I published abundant reliable-verifiable sources (collected also with user:Jayen466) that demonstrates the current material published by user:Sabbut on SPK, is mendacious (false) and spurious (not-genuine) and as warned by that people, it is hostile because it is causing serious damage to that living people. At any rate, now I will not make any edit on those talk pages exactly as I am not doing any edition on the respective articles since weeks. -- ClaudioSantos (talk) 20:54, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

That sounds fine to me. Swarm 00:53, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

In fact, I once mentioned the name of a member of the SPK. Truth is, at least one article and talk page of the Spanish Misplaced Pages had been spammed many times in 2004-2005 with propaganda articles signed by the very same person, so I really don't understand how mentioning that name could possibly be harmful for that person. Anyway, once I was warned of this possible harm I edited my original message and hid the corresponding diffs. If I hadn't been able to do that, I would have asked anyone else. So there's no need to assume bad faith.

As for Magister (), whom I personally don't know, he did not call the SPK a bunch of terrorists. Rather, he described some of its tactics as "terrorist-like", that is, tactics that could reasonably be used by terrorists. Namely, threatening to reveal the real names of two fellow Misplaced Pages editors, as well as their addresses, of course without their consent, in a message published in 2005 and which has remained untouched since then. I don't find anything wrong with Magister's message. Maybe a little harsh, but not nearly as harsh as the ones Claudio usually writes.

Finally, as for Claudio's "proofs" that SPK had nothing to do with the RAF, which are listed at the end of this section, they're mostly self-published works (so I would never consider those as valid references) or are in German (a language I don't understand, so I wouldn't reasonably evaluate and use those myself, although I'm of course open to reading any translation of said references). One more reference says the SPK was "fairly harmless" (which does not really mean anything relevant to Misplaced Pages, as "fairly harmless" is not the same as "totally harmless"). Sabbut (talk) 07:35, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

block malik shabazz

• {{|Soosim}}
• Template:New Israel Fund

Malik often reverts what i do, follows me around and continues to revert. i don't have a problem with honest editing, but as of late, he has taken it personally and has now taken to calling me vulgar names. see as his latest example. there really is no place for his type of language and his use of language in pages i edit. hope someone can help (since he has a few 'friends' who seem to back him up, i feel that the 'neutrals' just aren't out there. it is clear to me that he has gone beyond 'civility', used 'personal attacks' and more. thanks. (and sorry if i filled out the form incorrectly - in over 4 years of wiki editing, i have never had to do this.) Soosim (talk) 04:32, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

i realized i didn't give his link: and i just found this too: and in fact, a quick look at this search is quite revealing: — Preceding unsigned comment added by Soosim (talk • contribs) 04:35, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

I don't know the background of any of this, but I looked at your example of his "vulgar" namecalling, and it happened immediately after you taunted him in response to his noting a copyright violation you committed. If you want to demand civility, you should practice it yourself. Gamaliel (talk) 04:46, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

taunted? what did i say? i asked him twice about my rewrites. not sure how you see that as 'taunting'. if it was, i am sorry. that is one of my calling cards. Soosim (talk) 06:43, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

and i want to add an example of past rude behavior from malik, where i specifically asked him not to continue in these personal attacks - thanks. Soosim (talk) 07:50, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

Be aware of WP:BOOMERANG. Collect (talk) 11:43, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

thanks collect. seems like people have lots to say about me, and very little about malik, except for excusing his behavior. oh well, i guess that is just the way it is. i'll deal with it. Soosim (talk) 12:02, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

• Another shining example of running from the I-P topic area looking to get one's wiki-opponents in trouble. Yes, using taunting/mocking edit summaries such as "re-edited again for my friend malik - hope you like it. thanks!" is probably not going to foster a very collegial editing atmosphere. When you personalize an editing conflict, no one wins. Tarc (talk) 12:11, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

tarc - i said what i said in all sincerity. he had addressed me personally, so i answered him personally. if i am not supposed to do that, then i will be less friendly and more serious, businesslike. no problem. Soosim (talk) 13:29, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

Soosim, this thread isn't really helping. It says at top of the page that Wikiquette alerts are supposed to be used to resolve disputes, and that they shouldn't be used to request punishment on other editors. I know you're a reasonable guy capable of negotiation, and I hope you and Malik Shabazz can settle this in a more peaceful way than requesting blocks for the other guy. Zakhalesh (talk) 19:01, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

OhioStandard

• Ohiostandard (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Journal of Global Drug Policy and Practice (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

This user has made repeated personal attacks on me in several articles. In the case at hand, I shortened an extensive quote which had nothing to do with the journal, and was greeted with this sort of comment: user Collect (talk · contribs), who often follows my edits and who had no prior involvement with this article, and with whom I'm currently in contention over an unrelated matter at AN/I, deleted the quote, saying it was a violation of NPOV. Partly because Collect claimed at AN/I that this journal is a reliable source and Collect is perfectly welcome to try find sources that claim this web site represents a sterling and unbiased example of the highest standards in medical research publishing, and . I will not be debating the question with Collect, however, as I've learned from previous experience that doing so is invariably unproductive. (all in . I would hasten to point out that I became aware of the article at AfD, and not by following anyone around at all. And that Ohiostandard also !voted !keep for the article. .

Further examples: *Comment. Collect apparently doesn't understand the word "retain", and I've reverted his deletion of the passage. Shooterwalker, Fred, do either of you have any changes you'd like to propose to the language, at all?  – OhioStandard (talk) 02:54, 18 March 2011 (UTC) To make this one clear see Herostratus (talk | contribs) (52,998 bytes) (remove contentious unproven material per WP:BRD, WP:CONSENSUS, see talk ("re collectables")) (undo) precisely confirming the correctnes of my position.

where he indicates that he is actually following me Sorry, Collect; I understand the concerns that motivated your edit, and I have some sympathy for those concerns, but you've introduced too marked a deviation from long-established policy, and I've reverted your change. You'll note that at the top of this talk page there's a notice that says, in part, "Before editing this page, please make sure that your revision reflects consensus." We're at the "D" stage in WP:BRD at this point; if you find a great majority of editors strongly support your desired change that's one thing, but right now it's just you. You'll need pretty broadly-based support before your changes can become policy.  – OhioStandard (talk) 17:08, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

And at AN/I: et seq. Again he managed to follow my edits <g> but accuses an admin I'm sorry to have to bring this here, but it seems pretty clear that Rklawton won't tolerate any critical information being fairly represented in this article if he can possibly help it, and that he's perfectly willing to try to bully other editors to prevent that from happening. I know he's an admin, but he's still obliged to conform to our policies disallowing personal attacks, battleground behavior, and article ownership, and I'd appreciate it if the community would take whatever steps are necessary to try to make him understand that ... Gamaliel, I've never interacted with Rklawton before that I can recall, although Collect has been pretty unhappy with me since I took part in a discussion last year that ended in his being blocked etc. (OS has been after me a number of times, and the "block" was soundly berated by other admins bythe way), etc. Then the hubris of . Yet another attack: I think it'll probably be more productive if I refrain from responding to any further accusations from Collect, if I can reasonably do so. I'd appreciate it, though, if an administrator would take a look at a recent development

Ohiostandard is apparently unable to post anywhere on Misplaced Pages without attempting to demonize me personally. represents yet one more article where his first edits were well after my edits. Heck he even admonishes me for posting a new subject flush left! Especially, please don't post at flush-left, since doing so prevents others from using normal threading protocol to reply to posts.) Is it really so onerous a burden to refrain from posting at flush-left, Collect? What would be the harm in extending the very simple courtesy of allowing others to respond to the original post without being prevented from doing so by your post? I've again indented the above to preserve other editors' ability to reply to the original post. I'll not insist on the point, but is it really too much to ask that you allow them the right to do so?

In short: Ohiostandard appears quite totally obsessed with me, and I am just getting tired of it. Cheers. Collect (talk) 18:49, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

and also: Likewise, the Eridu-Dreaming account exhibits the same tendencies toward formatting and placement of posts that Collect also employs with the effect of setting off talk page contribtions more prominently in a thread than is usual. As I said, I sincerely doubt Collect would ever try anything like this. OTOH, I also think it's better to initiate an SPI when one has any doubt than to just wonder, since socking is such a huge problem on Misplaced Pages. I imagine Collect will take this personally, given our negative history, but for my part, I'd want anyone who had any suspicion I might be socking to initiate an SPI. Anyway, he asked me to stay off his talk page after I took part in a discussion that led to his being blocked last October, so if it's required to inform him of this, would someone please do so on my behalf? Thank you which is an overt accusation that I am a sock puppeteer. I expect Collect will respond with his usual misstatements of my actions, but I'm not going to try to correct those that I'm sure will be coming, and will trust instead to the diligence of other users to just examine any claims he makes, if they care about any such claims. More generally, because he's been so extremely reactive to me since I took part in a discussion that resulted in him being blocked last October, I'm not going to respond to Collect any further here, to try to keep the drama level as low as it can be in this. But I'll of course be glad to respond to any questions or comments any uninvolved user or SPI admin might like to direct my way. If anyone has any, any comments or questions about any of this, please post them after the e-mail that follows so this post and that disclosure remain together on the page. Thanks same accusation. I acutally considered repeated accusations of that nature without even a wisp of evidence other than hatred to be a violation of Wikiquette as well. His mileage appears to differ. Collect (talk) 19:00, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

I find reading Ohiostandard's communications unpleasant for several reasons - chief among them would be his vociferous complaints should I actually presume to list them. We're all unpleasant at times, and many of us started off as clueless noobs. However, if we use "unpleasant" as our standard for removing editors, we wouldn't have any. And if we're not proposing to block him from editing, then we're just wasting our time here. And no, I'm not proposing we block him. If he wants to continue behaving as he does, then people he offends will continue to point it out and eventually he'll get tired of it all and go away on his own (this happens all the time). Or he'll learn to work more cooperatively and we'll all be better off. Either way, the problem will solve itself. Rklawton (talk) 19:28, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

• Misplaced Pages dispute resolution