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:::::::: The links issue is not straightforward here because of the subject of the page runs the site that has the best information about her. I think you are completely wrong but will assume you thought you had reason and leave it at that. But you should add back the info about Deborah Houlding creating the Skyscript site and be clear about that because its significant and verifyable. Do you agree? ] (]) 08:44, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
:::::::: The links issue is not straightforward here because of the subject of the page runs the site that has the best information about her. I think you are completely wrong but will assume you thought you had reason and leave it at that. But you should add back the info about Deborah Houlding creating the Skyscript site and be clear about that because its significant and verifyable. Do you agree? ] (]) 08:44, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
::::::::: Discussion about your spam warning belongs to your talk page, not here on the Deborah Houlding talk page. Life is easier when you keep things where they belong. It makes no sense to go on telling me how 'completely wrong' I am, in short: the final warning you got is what WP guidelines call for ''If an editor spams numerous articles in a systematic fashion...'' -- WP guidelines are clear that reliable *outside* sources are need to make an article verifiable. So they cannot come from a person's own website. -- Your continued insistence that start of the Skyscript website should be mentioned in this biography (and added into numerous other articles), suggests that there is some conflict of interest at work here. See ]. Don't blame me for the WP guidelines. If you don't agree with some WP guidelines then there are places where you can go and make your case. ] (]) 10:27, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
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This article seems to have been a stub forever.
It contains no sources (have added a tag for it).
Looks like self promotion WP:SOAP
And has too many links that go to same site WP:ELNOMakeSense64 (talk) 12:25, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
Agree. Serious notability concerns. I checked selected online media sources in Britain, Ireland, US, worldwide, casting a wide net -- no mention of her from reporters or valid secondary sources. Looks like this article is self-promotion.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 12:47, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
Better, but I think serious notability concerns remain here. Author of a single book that appears to be self-published, and republished by some non-notable publisher. The mention of her book should go in a bibliography section. But then the biography itself is again without independant references, and falls back almost completely on self-published sources. Is a single book showing up in google book search, and a few trivial mentions in other non-notable publications enough to support notability?
The last paragraph "In 2002, Houlding launched an Internet astrological website entitled Skyscript. She studies the history of astrology, runs her own school of horary (STA), and writes regularly for the Mountain Astrologer magazine. Her book The Houses: Temples of the Sky was expanded and published by Wessex Astrologer in 2006." seems to be largely redundant, but if I merge it in the rest of the article what will be left that can be sourced indepedantly ? MakeSense64 (talk) 07:00, 31 May 2011 (UTC)
I am also finding that according to notability(books) a book is not notable just because it has ISBN number and appears in google book search. -- If the book is not notable then we will need other references to establish that this author is notable. MakeSense64 (talk) 07:32, 31 May 2011 (UTC)
Further, I've noticed new unsourced additions to this article along with more links which look a lot like spam. My sense is either this article should be stripped substantially or else put up for deletion.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 18:13, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
Actually, clicking on 'diff' I see that the only editing this Clooneymark has ever done is adding links to same website (probably his own). What is the wikipedia policy in such a case? Remove these spam links? MakeSense64 (talk) 07:02, 2 June 2011 (UTC)
Yes, Misplaced Pages does not like link spam, and what else is this. I'll support your decision whether you decide to delete or trim it.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 11:07, 2 June 2011 (UTC)
Pretty pissed to log in today and find my edits of yesterday removed because someone thinks that adding relevant information makes me a spammer. MakeSense is not making sense here. Check the links - those I added to this page are directly relevant to Deborah Houlding because she is the creator of the Skyscript website. Skyscript is an important website for astrologers, so to drop mention of her creating Skyscript is like dropping mention of Misplaced Pages from the Jimmy Wales page. (Without that mention where's the logic for adding the Skyscript site to the external links section?). Let's see the other 'spam' links I added - a link to her personal website and to a published personal interview by Garry Phillipson which shows why she is known for being "one of the foremost practitioners of horary astrology". There's other interviews - one here on an Amercian site http://gryphonastrology.com/blog/2008/07/07/interview-with-astrologer-deborah-houlding-part-1-of-3/ and one here on a leading Greek astrology website:
Makesense, the reason my adds were from one site yesterday is because I was on it yesterday and thought they were good, convenient links to add. I dip in to Misplaced Pages when I can to add what I think are useful non-controversial bits of info. I'm not gonna get into flamming rants so do as you please but I think you should reinstate my edits and show a little more good faith here Clooneymark (talk) 12:22, 2 June 2011 (UTC)
Being an editor on WP is not about getting pissed when *your* external links get trimmed, it is about improving the articles to get them up to standards, which is explained in detail in the guidelines and WP policy pages. If you had read those policies, then you would know that an external link to personal website is normally limited to one link, not 5 going through different sections on the same domain. -- Also have a look at WP:V, quoting: The threshold for inclusion in Misplaced Pages is verifiability, not truth — whether readers can check that material in Misplaced Pages has already been published by a reliable source, not whether editors think it is true. -- Another core principle is neutral point of view WP:NPOV . If you are getting pissed because *your* external links get trimmed, then it is rather doubtful whether you have the NPOV to edit the article in question. Do you agree? MakeSense64 (talk) 07:46, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
Im not pissed because my links were trimmed. I add info and people can keep it or not. That's fine. I'm pissed that I contributed what im my view was useful and relevant infomation and without anyone even bothering to say hello let alone have a word in my ear, you came in with all your guns blazing and your knife at my throat, to givv me a final warning about my spamming activity. I wouldnt have challenged any edit except for that. Yesterday I logged in and found your message labelling me a spammer. Thats why I'm pissed. You got that wrong but you made the mistake on my user page, not yours.
The links issue is not straightforward here because of the subject of the page runs the site that has the best information about her. I think you are completely wrong but will assume you thought you had reason and leave it at that. But you should add back the info about Deborah Houlding creating the Skyscript site and be clear about that because its significant and verifyable. Do you agree? Clooneymark (talk) 08:44, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
Discussion about your spam warning belongs to your talk page, not here on the Deborah Houlding talk page. Life is easier when you keep things where they belong. It makes no sense to go on telling me how 'completely wrong' I am, in short: the final warning you got is what WP guidelines call for If an editor spams numerous articles in a systematic fashion... -- WP guidelines are clear that reliable *outside* sources are need to make an article verifiable. So they cannot come from a person's own website. -- Your continued insistence that start of the Skyscript website should be mentioned in this biography (and added into numerous other articles), suggests that there is some conflict of interest at work here. See WP:CONFLICT. Don't blame me for the WP guidelines. If you don't agree with some WP guidelines then there are places where you can go and make your case. MakeSense64 (talk) 10:27, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
