Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 12:09, 14 July 2004

There is a "user page" with basically the same content but reworded and Ibrahim for the patriarch's name. If a contributory wants to take the user name Arab, I have no problem with that, but let's not confuse a user page with an article page. Ed Poor, Wednesday, April 10, 2002

The following text was moved from user:Arab because it seems more like it applies to the Arab article than to a Misplaced Pages contributor. Ed Poor

Arab (noun) - descibes a person of Arabic descent.

Historically, an Arab is descendant from one of two sons of the Prophet Ibrahim. The other son's linage is claimed by the Jews

Haisam - please don't copy and paste that text from again - that page is copyrighted, and so we can't reproduce it here. See Misplaced Pages:Copyrights. You're free to weave in the info on that page of course, but you have to do it in an original way, rather than simply copying it across. --Camembert

Original Message --------

Camembert:

Here's the authorization to use the definition:

Message-ID: <025c01c2aa9d$43a0e340$7201a8c0@adc.org> From: Marvin Wingfield <marvinw@adc.org> To: <haisam@ido.org> Subject: Definition of Arab Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 11:03:51 -0500

Mr. Ido:

I am not quite clear as to what you are asking. You are free to used the ADC definition. It is the ordinary agreed on definition. An Arab is someone whose primary language is Arabic, who shares in the common culture and history of the Arab world.

User:haisam

Hm. I see no indication that the person you contacted is aware of the ramifications of placing their text under terms of the GFDL. This is very different than a one time grant to use the text (which is implied in the message). If the it is OK for us to use it then please integrate the text into the current article and don't replace it. --mav 23:29 Dec 23, 2002 (UTC)

The Berber peoples of North Africa, for example, though often called Arabs by Westerners, are connected to Arabia only by often speaking Arabic as a second language, since that remains the official language of the country in which they live as a result of the Arab expansion.

Never have I heard anyone refer to the Berbers as being Arabs. Should this be removed?

Racially, an Arab is a person of Arabic descent, whose original ancestry comes from the Arabian Peninsula. Arabs are a Semitic people, who trace their ancestry from the ancient patriarch Abraham.

I don't see how this makes sense. The Arabs are racially very mixed, as they're descended from a mixture of conquored/assilimated peoples and millions of slaves from throughout the Old World.

Arabs are racially classified as White.

Um. Which classification scheme are we using here? Because by language, Arabs are Semitic, as the article makes clear; by "race", they are "white", yes, but we all know how much that means. --Mirv 08:43, 24 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Definition of Arab

such as the Maronite Christian Arabic-speakers of Lebanon, or the Arabic-speaking Copts of Egypt, or Arabic-speaking Jews, reject this definition, wishing to identify not with a group defined by language but with a narrower one defined by religion or shared communal history.

Huh? First of all, the classification of "Arab" is not based on language (at least, not anymore...there was a period when this kind of Arab Nationalism was popular during the Ottomon period, but not anymore). Second, only an extreme fringe of Civil War-period Maronites reject the label of "Arab". I myself am a "Maronite Christian Arabic-speaker of Lebanon" and I take offence at such a claim. The only real, modern definition of an Arab is someone who is a citizen of an Arab League nation. --Jad 13:03, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)

• Hi Jad. Though I wrote most of that paragraph, I sympathise with some of your objections to it... I mentioned that some Maronites reject the label "Arab" because I've actually talked to several such people; but I agree, we should make it much clearer that this is an extremist minority. As for the "Arab = speaker of Arabic", though, I think that makes a lot more sense than "Arab = citizen of Arab League nation"; if you call a Berber or a Dinka or a Kurd "Arab", the substantial majority of them (though not all) would strongly disagree, and conversely, the Arab minority in southern Iran or southeastern Turkey or Chad is no less Arab for having happened to fall outside the borders of the Arab League. - Mustafaa 19:10, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)

• • True, but I think we need to add both definitions: the sociopolitical as well as the ethnoliguistic, because, as you just pointed out, neither is enough as a definition. Maybe we should distinguish between Arab peoples and Arabic peoples, the first refering to the political definition, and the second referring to the linguistic definition. In this way, the minorities in Iran, Turkey and Chad would be Arabic minorities, and not Arab. I know that this may seem like a frustrating play in semantics, but I think that its the only way to deal with the two point of views while mantaining NPOV. Is that alright with you?

So, why don't you expand the part on the minorities within Arab nations, and add that part on Arabic minorities within non-Arab nations?

• Hmmm... How about something like this:

There are three factors which play varying degrees in determining whether someone is considered Arab or not:

1. Political: whether they live in a country which is a member of the Arab League.
2. Linguistic: whether their mother tongue is Arabic.
3. Genealogical: whether they can trace their ancestry back to the original inhabitants of the Arabian Peninsula.

The relative importance of these factors is estimated differently by different groups. The third factor was the original definition used in medieval times, but is usually no longer considered to be particularly significant. - Mustafaa 20:18, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)

• • Great work Mustafaa...I think we have achieved NPOV! Total wikiness in action! --Jad 05:35, 3 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Most of the scholars were AJAM (every body who was not Arab)

Strange is that the scholars generally were no Arabs and this applies both to the scientists in Islam and in science. And if there is an Arab under them, then he is Arabised. Nevertheless the owner of CHARIA (Islamic legislation) came from their middle. And this comes because the Arabs are ignorant and have had never knowledge. Even those whom Arab grammar products has made expatriate. First Sibawayh were from the Persian realm and then Al-Zajaaj, these two were AJAM (everyone who is no Arab). The expatriate have made grammar for the Arabs and learned them the Arab language, art, laws and educate science. The most which Al-Hadith after to products have told of origin no Arabs. Then the Islamic scholars were not almost all Arabs. The Arabs could not write, note and not to express. And all those scientists who and have explained products have noted Islamic leathers and Arab grammar and have kept no Arabs of origin. Science was conducted by the Persian scientists, whereas the Arabs for competing with were concerning the power. The Arabs have ternauwernood interfered with science. The industry was carried out by the Arabised. When the Arabs devastate Egypt and the power there got, the Egyptians have kept themselves busy with science and Egypt was the country of science and industry. To these Arabised which kept themselves busy with science were: SAAD ADDIEN ATAFTAZI, IBN ALKHTIEB, NASR ADDIEN ATTUSIE. The work of other Arabiseds has been destroyed. (the original text)

hai, mustafaa, why you delite this frenquenly ? he is an arab according to you. and i didn't brought it from my books, it was in the almuqaddimah of the great arab historian. who can he be an great arab historian if we cannot use his works? ,i'll translate other works and are you saying that i attempt to revange ? are you feeling dat did anything wrong against me ? .Aziri 12:57, 12 Jul 2004 (UTC)

To put something in a Misplaced Pages article, it has to be relevant. I could simply paste vast translations from al-Idrisi (or is he Berber?) into this article, and he talks about "Arabs", but that wouldn't make them relevant or interesting. Moreover, I'm tired of correcting your English; from now on, if you add a lengthy section which reads like a Japlish VCR manual, I'll just delete it until you fix it yourself. - Mustafaa 02:38, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC) if you are tired ,late it to an other who can that.Aziri 14:12, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Page protection

Folks, I protected this page so we can have a rest from this reversion war to a while. You can list objections here, but note that protection is completely within the guidelines in these circumstances. --Zero 23:06, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)

i'm disgree sir : 'Zero , i think dat prtected the mustafaa not the page. Aziri 12:09, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)