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Armenia bought 10 Su-25, not Su-27

There is a typo in REGNUM. Read here : http://armenianow.com/?action=viewArticle&AID=1167&CID=1348&IID=&lng=eng Steelmate (talk) 20:48, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

This is not a mistake they have bought 10 Su27S (flanker B)they can purchase russian armement with low price. the regnum article is in the right:http://regnum.ru/news/armenia/518620.html You can see those plane in this video who have been passed in Armenian TV: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEF4MECyUNw I have seen those Su 27 aircrafts last summer in Armenia.

You can errase those informations but it will not remove the planes. For me wikipedia is a community of men and women who like to share the information.But If you want to select the information in the pretexte that you are not agree with.It's your problem I can't make nothing more. I tell you the truth and wath I seen. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mhergyumri (talk • contribs) 21:53, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

The difficulty here is that nothing has been stated officially by Armenian government, so we need to find some verifiable sources. I found a report on

National reports on arms exports and there is a section on Slovakia 2005, see here : http://www.sipri.org/contents/armstrad/SLK_05.pdf/download . We need to translate it to see what exactly Slovakia sold to Armenia. Steelmate (talk) 17:23, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Slovakia sold to Armenia 10 SU-25 not in 2005,but in 2004!) http://disarmament.un.org/cab/register_files/Files%20for%20List%20of%20Documents/UN%20Register-Combat%20Aircraft.xls —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mhergyumri (talk • contribs) 23:32, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Unfortunately, there has been a great deal of confusion over Armenian aircraft acquisitions, as I’ve mentioned above. I have been conducting research with an eye to rewriting and expanding this article. To date, their fixed-wing aircraft holdings appear to have progressed as follows:

• By 1991: 1 MiG-25, 5 Su-25K (1 of which may have been shot down in Jan. 1993), 1 Su-25UBK; 6 An-2, 1 An-24, 1 An-32; 10 Yak-52. Probably also 2 An-72, 1 Tu-134A, 1 Tu-154B-2, and possibly 2 L-39.
• 2004: 9 Su-25K, 1 Su-25UBK from Slovakia; 2 Il-76 from Russia; 2 L-39C from Ukraine.
• Unknown: Perhaps 4 more An-2, and possibly 2 L-39C from Russia (if not held by 1991).

Most references to a Su-27 acquisition in 2004 (or 2005) are from errant Azeri reports regarding the Su-25 purchase. I did find one source (Azeri) that claimed only a few (no more than 4) of the 10 aircraft ordered were Su-27, with the remainder being Su-25 and Mi-24 gunships, but a contemporary Armenian source clarifies that all were Su-25. So far, I’ve been unable to find any reliable source confirming actual receipt of Su-27s by Armenia; such a signal even should have received extensive coverage in Armenian media – not to mention Azeri media and possibly Russian as well. Nor have I been able to find a photo of a Su-27 (or MiG-29, for that matter) in Armenian AF markings. The airshow Su-27 photo is of a Russian aircraft. The You-Tube recruiting video flyover could be of any air force, since no markings can be seen; it is most likely footage from a joint Armenian-Russian military exercise.

If anyone has reliable sources for Armenian acquisitions, please post them! Askari Mark (Talk) 20:40, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

The official report from Slovakia on military exports states it sold aircraft on $800'000 (or roughly $1 mln often quoted) to Armenia in 2005. I highly doubt that several or even 10 Su-27 each costing 25-35mln could have been purchased for 1mln, that wouldn't be a purchase more like a gift. Don't think Slovakia has too much money to give away such expensive gifts to Armenia. Any Su-27 in Armenia if any may be only of Russian 102 military base. Steelmate (talk) 21:28, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

The sale was actually made in 2004 per the UN Register of Conventional Arms, although the reports themselves were published in 2005. It is also possible that these 20-year-old fighters underwent some refurbishment (although I have not seen this reported) and were not delivered until 2005 (which might explain why it became a hot news topic again in Oct. 2005). Slovakia, of course, never had Su-27s to sell. I've come across no info to date that the Russians have based Su-27s in Armenia, although they have appeared at airshows and, I believe, in some military exercises. However, I have come across an unconfirmed report that some MiG-23s were – which may explain reports of Armenian MiG-23s. Likewise, I've come across no reports confirming the presence of Su-17/20 among either nation's forces in Armenia post-dissolution of the USSR; I do recall that some were "taken over" by the Armenians, but heard only that they were never placed into operational service. Askari Mark (Talk) 00:19, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

that's true Armenia havn't Su 17 or 20 you can erase them. But I'm sure that they have Su-27 and they receive those fighters not from Slovakia in 2005 but from Russia in 2006 because I have seen the planes in 2006 in Armenia but they are flying to high and I was not able to see the markings...But I'm sure that the planes are SU-27 fighters This is defense secret for a small country like armenia this is why they don't show the planes. everywhere I search on the web to see pictures of the planes but there had no pictures even about Mig 29 but I can show you a video where there are a single mig 29 who take off and there are no marking on top. this is not a russian plane but Armenian mig 29 i think. And I would to say that the russians havn't Su 27 in Armenia :

1)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dV0KZfS0RoA

2)http://64.233.179.104/translate_c?hl=en&u=http://pilot.strizhi.info/2007/06/08/3948 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mhergyumri (talk • contribs) 15:18, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

training aircraft

Armenian pilots train with the diamon da 40 and 42 >

http://images.google.nl/imgres?imgurl=http://www.aviation.am/eng/gorc/images/gyumri%25202.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.aviation.am/eng/gorc/aeroport.htm&usg=__K9PeVj4sFsL8q5BVXEwG-TsRumM=&h=150&w=200&sz=55&hl=nl&start=3&um=1&tbnid=qXFj1YfeLSJhWM:&tbnh=78&tbnw=104&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dgyumri%2Bairport%26hl%3Dnl%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1

and Armenia got mig29 in the armenian/russian airbase in erebuni...!

I think the actual link you meant to supply was this one for the . Please note that it only states that this center trains private and commercial pilots. The Air Training Center is established on the base of the military's Training Center, but the source makes clear that these are distinct organizations and the Civil Air Training Center falls under the auspices of the Ministry of Education and Science, not the armed forces. There is nothing here that says this center trains military aircrew, much less on Diamond aircraft.

As for the MiG-29s, I've heard the reports, but I have not found reliable evidence. If it's true that Russia gave or sold MiG-29s to Armenia, there must be reliable sources that say so. Can you provide any? Thanks, Askari Mark (Talk) 16:17, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Also, if Armenia does have any MiG-29s, this picture is not of them. It was taken of a Russian formation, so please quit changing this – or please add a non-copyrighted image that is clearly of an Armenian MiG-29. I am re-adding the Su-25 image because these are undisputedly of Armenian aircraft (and of a type that has been used in military operations). Askari Mark (Talk) 16:25, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Early history text

At the top of the History section, the text below:

However, this may not represent the first use of armed aircraft by the Armenians; an Azeri report states that the Armenians allegedly used modified civilian Mi-8 helicopters for bombing civilian targets in the Geranboi region of Azerbaijan in January 1990. The Azeris also claimed Armenian Mi-24 attack helicopters were employed in support of an assault on Shusha in February 1992. Azerbaijani helicopter gunships were also used in fighting in the region.

References:

1. Matveeva, Anna & Hiscock, Duncan. (2003). The Caucasus: Armed and Divided – Small arms and light weapons proliferation and humanitarian consequences in the Caucasus. Saferworld. ISBN 0-948546-91-3. See “Chapter 2: Azerbaijan: The burden of history – waiting for change” by Arif Yunusov. Retrieved 21 March 2012.
2. Anon. (29 February 1992). "Ex-Soviet Troops to Leave Enclave". New York Times. Retrieved: 19 March 2012.

has been repeatedly removed by editor or two, saying "unverified claims" even though this is cited by reliable sources. No counterclaims have been added to refute anything so far. -Fnlayson (talk) 17:37, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

I updated the link for the 2nd reference, verified the text and tighten some wording (shown above now). -Fnlayson (talk) 16:36, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

That is not a reliable source, the first one is from a book written by an Azeri and the second is quoting an Azeri. If someone other than an Azeri stated that then ok. The Azeris also claimed Armenians used mustard gas during the war, is that accurate, no. They claim they sent help to Armenia during the Spitak earthquake in 1988 when Armenia says the border had been shut already by the Azeri side. I say to remove that paragraph unless you can post from a non-Azeri source, meaning a non-Azeri making that statement. Until then i will remove that paragraph. Ninetoyadome (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 00:34, 12 May 2012 (UTC).

So you consider the New York Times as unreliable? Night of the Big Wind _talk 00:47, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

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