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*First of all, I'm so very sorry about what is going on the project here. At the time when Niemti was unbanned, I provided ''very inconclusive evidence'' on my part, and I tried to desperately solve the problem in August, but ended up getting ''nowhere'' fast to be honest and I've obviously ''moved on'' from the "wikihounding" issue and those things in August are ''water under the bridge'' and I wish to put these issues by Ched to rest. I know better to wikihound, bait or troll anyone in the first place. I have been trying to ignore him due to his attitude. And let it be known that '''being a producer of good content is never an excuse for incivil behavior''' and I tried to desperately avoid him but I was concerned about his behavior. Niemti has some serious communication errors here, but I made a mistake in promising to avoid the editor (that promise was not permanent), and I am aware about what problems he has here. Let me decide whether I should avoid Niemti or not. Unfortunately, Niemti was ] for this exact same behavior. The additional evidence subpage was created at the suggestion of Izno and we have had numerous discussions on his behavior at ]. We need more uninvolved editors to take a look at the situation. ] (] - ]) 18:26, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
*First of all, I'm so very sorry about what is going on the project here. At the time when Niemti was unbanned, I provided ''very inconclusive evidence'' on my part, and I tried to desperately solve the problem in August, but ended up getting ''nowhere'' fast to be honest and I've obviously ''moved on'' from the "wikihounding" issue and those things in August are ''water under the bridge'' and I wish to put these issues by Ched to rest. I know better to wikihound, bait or troll anyone in the first place. I have been trying to ignore him due to his attitude. And let it be known that '''being a producer of good content is never an excuse for incivil behavior''' and I tried to desperately avoid him but I was concerned about his behavior. Niemti has some serious communication errors here, but I made a mistake in promising to avoid the editor (that promise was not permanent), and I am aware about what problems he has here. Let me decide whether I should avoid Niemti or not. Unfortunately, Niemti was ] for this exact same behavior. The additional evidence subpage was created at the suggestion of Izno and we have had numerous discussions on his behavior at ]. We need more uninvolved editors to take a look at the situation. ] (] - ]) 18:26, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
::I will comment on one thing, and one thing only. I most definitely '''Support''' an interaction ban, with teeth in it, between ] and ]. The comment above says to me that Sjones23 is either clueless or in complete denial about his own continual and ongoing ], including a lovely display of gravedancing on the occasion of the current block being imposed. Ched's assessment of that is right on the number. ] (]) 18:37, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
::I will comment on one thing, and one thing only. I most definitely '''Support''' an interaction ban, with teeth in it, between ] and ]. The comment above says to me that Sjones23 is either clueless or in complete denial about his own continual and ongoing ], including a lovely display of gravedancing on the occasion of the current block being imposed. Ched's assessment of that is right on the number. ] (]) 18:37, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
:::Yes, Fladrif. I can understand that Ched is concerned here and I am so sorry about this once again. If I did anything wrong or clueless or did something to upset you, then I can say one thing: I am sorry. I know that I was trying to avoid Niemti but in the end, I let my judgment get the best of me since I do know better than to ] or harass this user. I think a possible interaction ban would simply help out very much for me and increase my moral support. ] (] - ]) 18:41, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' I have had zero interaction with Niemti. (by coincidence I just picked up and article for GA review and noticed that it was written by them (looks like an immense amount of work on a topic that nobody else likely would have done, and could use a bit more work before GA) but they have been blocked and I've had no discussions.) I see nothing in the diffs or evidence at the RFC/U supporting such an extreme measure, and I am becoming more and more distressed by vague lynchings at ani and an, and so am opposing this from a fair and due process standpoint. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 18:31, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' I have had zero interaction with Niemti. (by coincidence I just picked up and article for GA review and noticed that it was written by them (looks like an immense amount of work on a topic that nobody else likely would have done, and could use a bit more work before GA) but they have been blocked and I've had no discussions.) I see nothing in the diffs or evidence at the RFC/U supporting such an extreme measure, and I am becoming more and more distressed by vague lynchings at ani and an, and so am opposing this from a fair and due process standpoint. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 18:31, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
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(Initiated 53 days ago on 15 November 2024)
Clear consensus that the proposed edit (and its amended version) violate WP:SYNTH. However, the owning editor is engaging in sealioning behavior, repeatedly arguing against the consensus and dismissing others' rationale as not fitting his personal definition of synthesis; and is persistently assuming bad-faith, including opening an ANI accusing another editor of WP:STONEWALLING. When finally challenged to give a direct quote from the source that supports the proposed edit, it was dismissed with "I provided the source, read it yourself" and then further accused that editor with bad-faith. The discussion is being driven into a ground by an editor who does not (nor wish to) understand consensus and can't be satisfied with any opposing argument supported by Misplaced Pages policy or guidelines. --ThomasO1989 (talk) 22:30, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
(Initiated 36 days ago on 2 December 2024) The last comment on this was on 24 December 2024 and Legobot has removed the RFC tag. An independent closer (preferably an admin) would be welcome. Many thanks - SchroCat (talk) 15:57, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
(Initiated 71 days ago on 29 October 2024) There are voices on both sides (ie it is not uncontroversial) so a non-involved editor is needed to evaluate consensus and close this. Thanks. PamD09:55, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
(Initiated 62 days ago on 7 November 2024) Looking for uninvolved close in CTOP please, only a few !votes in past month. I realise this doesn't require closing, but it is preferred in such case due to controversial nature of topic. CNC (talk) 10:44, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
Note: I'm happy to perform the merge if required, as have summarised other sections of this article already with consensus. I realise it's usually expected to perform splits or merges when closing discussions, but in this case it wouldn't be needed. CNC (talk) 20:28, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
(Initiated 42 days ago on 27 November 2024) Discussion seems to have stopped. As the proposal is not uncontroversial, and I, as the initiator, am involved, I am requesting an uninvolved editor to close the discussion. Arnav Bhate (talk • contribs) 11:02, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
Place new discussions concerning other types of closing requests above this line using a level 3 heading
After Acoma Magic's indefinite block for edit warring and block evasion, he has created eight sockpuppets (five confirmed, three suspected). He has a history of edit-warring on particular articles relating to homosexuality. His confirmed socks are UK and Australia-centric and edit in the same subjects of LGBT (woth the same POV issues), UK and Australian subjects, Oprah Winfrey and video games over five months since the block. The same issues remain with removing POV tags on articles such as Big Society (), which his most recent sockpuppet did after the previous Acoma sockpuppet was blocked. See also Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Acoma Magic. This last round of sockpuppetry is the final straw. I therefore suggest that he be indefinitely banned by the community.
Support. We really need to introduce something into the banning policy — something like "a blocked editor who has been caught socking X number of times is to be considered banned by default". People like this definitely need to be told to get-out-and-stay-out, but these pro forma ban discussions really aren't necessary. Nyttend (talk) 01:56, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
Here and now isn't the place to do that; I'm not objecting to what you're doing in particular. I'm just expressing my frustration at the situation. Nyttend (talk) 02:02, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
Support ban. Funnily enough, I made the same suggestion as Nyttend in a previous site ban discussion for an even more prolific sockpuppeteer. Blackmane (talk) 09:49, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
Support — More important than the fact that he is evading the indefinite block placed on his original account is the fact that he continues to do exactly the things that got him into trouble in the first place. A site ban will prevent him from being able to continue disrupting LGBT-related articles, especially as this seems to have been the sole focus of his editing career. Kurtis04:08, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
Oppose Already defacto banned. The "defacto ban" was relentlessly pushed by a clique of editors some time ago and forced back into the banning policy page. Now those editors who insisted upon that are nowhere to be found, even though at the time they were raising holy hell about how AN/I was "littered with pointless ban discussions". Anyway, according to their "defacto ban" thing, this blocked editor is already banned so we should apply that policy as it is written. - Who is John Galt?✉16:19, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
Comment - You've used that stance before, and I still don't understand it. If he's already one kind of banned, why is that an argument to not ban him in another way? It's just more of a "making it official" type thing. Sergecross73msg me16:21, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
When I asked that I was shouted down by a mob who said that these discussions are a waste of time. Here are some of the discussions that took place (although I was not involved in these) , . Loo kat how much time was wasted on that foolishness, and now the people who pushed for it don't even care anymore. Anyway, if De Facto banning is enshrined as part of the policy, it should be applied as written. - Who is John Galt?✉16:48, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
That explains your general stance on policy, but that doesn't explain why you always preface it an "Oppose" instead of something like "Comment" in these particular ban proposals. You don't seem to especially oppose that this particular person, so why voice your general opinion on bannings here? Will two types of bans cancel each other out? Do bans cost money, and we're on a budget so we need to ration them? Of course not. So why oppose "2 layers of being banned" here? (Ultimately it doesn't matter that much, as you seem to interject this in discussions of near-unanimous support for bans, but it seems like these sorts of comments make consensus harder to find for the closer...) Sergecross73msg me16:59, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
For those confused by this oppose, it is actually a passive-aggressive support. No doubt one of the "clique" of editors he's referring to is me. I won't hijack this thread by yet again explaining my reasons for thinking these ban discussions are stupid and actually harmful, but I'd be happy to explain further to anyone who's curious, elsewhere. --Floquenbeam (talk) 17:05, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
I have no problems with the thought process in general, just merely with how it was being used as a rationale as an "Oppose" in particular scenarios. Thanks for some clarification. Sergecross73msg me17:44, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
It's really not meant to be passive-aggressive or to single out individuals. All I want is for the policy as written to be adhered to. We spent so much time in the past derailing ban discussions and hashing this all out in various forums, with the end result being that defacto bans were in force. Maybe I just wish people had better memories and were more consistent. It's probably my own personal failing. - Who is John Galt?✉15:19, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
SupportOppose he was blocked for 3RR for 72 hours, then indeffed for socking. While he is defacto banned already, he should be given the chance to convince an admin that he will no longer sock nor edit war. I don't see either of these things happening, but his sock edits, while some are POV, aren't entirely problematic. There are serial sockpuppet farms that have existed for YEARS that have never been cb'ed. AM should be treated no differently. little green rosetta(talk) central scrutinizer18:34, 19 March 2013 (UTC). I didn't realize this was at AN, so I'm not sure if my !vote was appropriate, hence am striking.little green rosetta(talk) central scrutinizer19:04, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
Even if he is given a chance, unfortunately, AM's behavior is still problematic especially with POV issues. He has been doing the things that he has gotten into trouble in the first place and AM's disruption has got to stop. On top of that, he has created sock puppets with the same patterns given his history. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 19:31, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
Comment - I'm not opposed to officially banning Acoma Magic; I'm just not sure what good it would do. My preference would be that he would own up to the wrong doing and take the standard offer. As I've said before, some of his edits are actually good and his POV would not be troublesome if he didn't aggressively insist on forcing it into articles by edit warring and arguing over minutiae. Can anyone convince me that banning Acoma Magic will result in any less time in dealing with SPI reports and reverting his edits? What's the upside?- MrX20:01, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
If he is banned, any edits by a banned user, whether the edits are either good or bad, will be reverted and are exempt from 3RR. But man, oh man, do policies and guidelines keep changing. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 21:02, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
I'm not sure if you were responding directly to me, but "Anyone is free to revert any edits made in defiance of a block, without giving any further reason and without regard to the three-revert rule." according to WP:EVADE. - MrX21:24, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
Additionally, if a user is banned, there are two ways to appeal it: First is the Unblock Mailing List: unblock-en-l@lists.wikimedia.org. Should they decline the banned users requests, they can appeal to the Ban Appeals Subcommittee of ArbCom, who can be contacted at arbcom-l@lists.wikimedia.org. Anyone who reverts banned editors are exempt from the three-revert rule. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 01:13, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
Support - Although indef blocking and banning hugely overlap each other, I see no reason not to support a community ban, if for no other reason than to send a message to Acoma Magic that the community is tired of wasting time on his dishonest, disruptive behavior and that the that path to re-joining the community is the Standard offer. - MrX01:06, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
Support I strongly support this proposal being familiar with this editor. He/she makes unsourced additions and if sourced uses unreliable sources. Plus he/she has a ridiculous POV. This is way overdue. Pass a Methodtalk19:22, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Comment - This is Acoma Magic. Sorry for being late, been busy and I don't check the talk page of AM often. Before you all get menstrual, I assume this was an invite - and since my AM account can't edit its own talk page I may as well comment here. I don't know if the community ban and standard offer are mutually exclusive options. It doesn't matter because they are both shit policies anyway as the community ban does nothing and the standard offer wastes 6 months of good editing time for those that obey it and rewards skilful sock puppets that don't. Who came up with these? Didn't anybody point out that they were stupid at the proposal discussion? Anywho... as I read Misplaced Pages almost everyday, I can't resist improving an article that I find a flaw in so the standard offer isn't possible. Would a restriction to 1 revert for 6 months be suitable? Bootore (talk) 20:13, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
I think you may be assuming that, as I frequently reference policies and try to follow them wherever possible. I only have problems with edit warring and socking, which my proposal would solve. Also, regarding your edit at the above section, I'm trying to follow policy and act constructively with this proposal. Rutgut (talk) 21:14, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
If the policies are bad, then it would seem that you might want to be a part of the community and lobby to change them, that is, if you actually care about building an encyclopedia. As it stands, you're not in a advantageous position to negotiate a better offer, given your history and the attitude that you're displaying here. If I were in your shoes, and wanted to contribute to Misplaced Pages, I would start by admitting that I was wrong, committing to not repeat the same behaviors and I would apologize to the community for wasting their time chasing after my socks. - MrX21:24, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
I'm not sure if it's much better, as a 1R restriction will piss me off a lot. I admit that edit warring is a problem and the 1R restriction will prevent that behaviour. I apologise to most (possibly all) of the people that have spent time that was related to my socks. The reason I say most is that I don't agree with the very selective interpretation of what a revert is that got me blocked and how the three reverter got off fine and therefore I offer no apology to those involved in that who subsequently spent time related to my socks. Rutgut (talk) 21:39, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
Per this suggestion - I request that Acoma Magic be temporarily unblocked so I can edit this discussion topic. I'll only edit this discussion topic with it. Just1edit (talk) 22:04, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
I think we usually let blocked users participate in discussions of which they are the subject. AM will either successfully get (temporarily) unblocked through UTRS or will have to wait for a helpful admin to see this. Of course, creating sockpuppets to join a discussion is usually frowned upon, but hell, why not go for broke! - MrX23:24, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
If you want to contribute to the discussion, don't create a new account to do it. Just leave any comments you have at User talk:Acoma Magic and they will be copied and pasted here. I have lifted the talk page block on that account. You only add more and more evidence to your likely ban every new account you create, and creating new accounts will only make matters worse. Instead, just leave comments on your talk page and they will be posted here. If you use your talk page to disrupt, I'll re-revoke your talk page access and you'll have to use the UTRS system to make any further requests. --Jayron3200:21, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
If it's moved to ANI, someone will complain that it's not an incident requiring admin action, so I would recommend leaving it here. I believe that is standard procedure for community ban discussions anyway (correct me if I'm wrong). - MrX03:43, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
I don't know what else we can do here. Per Jayron32, we should simply leave comments on AM's talk page and these should be posted here. Also, I believe AM is chronically incompetent due to his POV issues and edit warring. We do not let the blind drive buses. That's not discrimination, it's just common sense. They can't do it. This user unfortunately couldn't edit Misplaced Pages in a productive fashion and constantly causes messes that need to be cleaned up. We need to revoke his bus driver license. Lately, there is a bad trend of trying any ridiculous argument one can to explain away even the most obvious bad faith behavior and it has worked a few times, making the situation worse. I am totally concerned that this desperate advocacy on AM's behalf is accomplishing nothing. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 15:53, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
A new editor has taken up the position that Govgovgov (a now-blocked Acoma Magic sock) was putting in the discussion at Talk:Homosexuals Anonymous#Specific sentence. I would appreciate input on the editorial question being raised in that section as blocked editors certainly can be right. Attention might also want to be devoted to the question of whether the new editor is a sock or not - about which I express no opinion. I will note this post in the t:HA discussion. EdChem (talk) 03:15, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
"I have now been blocked from editing; I have no idea why. 88.104.27.2 (talk) 00:13, 20 March 2013 (UTC)" I've copied this from the IP's talk page, and like the IP I have no clue why a block's been levied. I've asked the blocking admin to comment on the IP's talk. Nyttend (talk) 00:27, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
Wow. Here's my take on the situation — this anonymous user made a perfectly valid report to AIV, which wound up reverted by Seb az86556 without explanation. The IP, visibly very frustrated and offended, asked Seb about it (in a rather aggressive tone) on his talk page, only to once again be reverted (and again, no explanation given). The IP editor became even more upset and re-added the header; again, reverted. His next move is to post a different, more civil message; Seb reverts with slightly more in the way of an explanation ("Stop it"). After that, the IP starts up this discussion and notifies Seb, whose response at this point is fairly predictable (this time saying "Read"). Bwilkins proceeds to block the IP address for 24 hours due to "disruptive editing". When they asked for an unblock, this was the blocking administrator's response. Ched was also left scratching his head in confusion over the situation, but Bwilkins basically told him to do a quick review of the IP's actions as if it were self-evident in their contribution history. I went ahead and did so myself. Other than the poor choice of words in confronting Seb and continuing to post there after it was clear that he had no interest in explaining himself, he had done nothing wrong.
I'd like to bring more attention to this, hopefully to get more insight from other editors and administrators on how best to proceed. This user has been blocked for three and a half hours now, yet no one has made a move to unblock or anything. A few administrators have commented critically about the action undertaken by Bwilkins, but none have explicitly expressed a willingness to unblock him. I've made my stance clear directly above, and I would like to see this block lifted immediately. Aside from their obvious (and frankly, justifiable) frustration, there does not appear to have been any egregious disruption coming from them. Kurtis03:45, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
I'm not sure what Bwilkins saw in 88's contributions that lead him to block. I don't see anything in here that would classify as disruption. It's clear from the contributions that 88 is not a new editor, but that is not prima facie evidence of disruption, and I saw nothing else of concern. Absent a better reason for blocking, I support an unblock. Someguy1221 (talk) 03:49, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
Of course it is. Everyone makes mistakes. In this situation, the system worked like it should, catching and correcting the mistake. End of story, nothing more to see here, move along and happy editing! -- LWG04:15, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
Unblock now unless someone can point to an actual problem. We should not expect that the right of Seb az86556 to remove talk page messages with no comment other than an edit summary of "read" to be understood by everyone. Is there some backstory behind all this, or is it just a misunderstanding? I looked at several of the IP's comments and they were fine, and in fact showed a helpful attitude which should be encouraged. Johnuniq (talk) 03:53, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
To elaborate on my unblock message, I can sort of see where Bwilkins was coming from, the tone of the message that started this was inappropriate, and we generally act quickly to block someone when they repeatedly add an inapproriate message to a user's talk page after that user has removed it. And while warnings may be best practice, they are not strictly required. But what really tipped the issue for me was that until the block message and following discussion, no one directly communicated about the issue with 88.104.27.2. There was no edit summary for the AIV revert, and the edit summaries at the user talk page hardly provided any information to 88.104.27.2. At least for routine matters, we need to at least try to communicate before resorting to a block, and I didn't see that here. If 88.104.27.2 had received any warnings, even a template one (which don't seem to lead to dialogue very often), I would have left the block alone. Monty84504:18, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
When I began the discussion of the block, I did it by saying to Bwilkins something like "I want to unblock, but it's not such a clear-cut situation that I'll do it immediately without your input". Nyttend (talk) 07:04, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
I wanted the situation resolved as quickly as possible; the longer this user remained block, the greater the likelihood that they would become dispirited with Misplaced Pages and its community by a large. The overwhelming consensus is that they should not have been blocked to begin with, thus warranting an immediate unblock. 88.104.27.2 was also wrongly reverted at AIV, and although their subsequent request for an explanation was lacking in good grace, the situation became severely exacerbated by the fact that nobody made any effort to communicate with them. This person, who is obviously experienced and has made several constructive edits, was being treated like a common troll.
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Accountability
There is nothing for admins to do here. Requests for Bwilkins to say or do things should be directed to his talk page. 28bytes (talk) 21:24, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Thanks for unblocking.
Per WP:ADMINACCT, I'd like Bwilkins to acknowledge that this was a bad block. That seems to be the 'overwhelming consensus' above.
The only possible rationale for the block, I believe, was A I wrote "Why the fuck did you revert me" (regarding a valid posting to AIV), and then when the user reverted that with no edit summary , B I undid it and thus effectively posted that question a second time .
A where I come from, asking "Why the fuck did you <do something>" is not uncivil. It's no different from "Why on Earth did you <do that>" - an expression of surprise. I believe that many prior discussions on the wiki have established that so-called 'obscene language' is not, in itself, uncivil. There is a massive difference between "Fuck you" and "What the fuck was that". Would BW have taken action if I'd just written "Why on Earth did you revert me", instead of using that naughty word? If so, that's bad judgement.
B Yes, I undid it once, and I shouldn't have. But it's hardly a massive edit-war, and I received absolutely no response other than a revert. After the 2nd revert, I did not post it again; I posted here, instead. I would have used ANI but that was semi'd at the time.
Please note, I received absolutely no warnings - just a template block message, giving the reason as "Disruptive editing" .
I asked BW to explain the block but, he has not done so. His only response was, Edit warring on one user's talkpage, wholly inappropriate AIV postings, unfounded and unproven accusations on ANI and elsewhere ... all disruptive . One single 'undo' is not an edit-war worthy of a block. My AIV posting was perfectly valid . I have no idea what the alleged "unfounded and unproven accusations on ANI and elsewhere" refers to.
BW made a bad block, and I'd like to see acknowledgement of that, and a promise to be more careful in future. I'm not flogging a dead horse - there's a good reason for WP:ADMINACCT. It's likely that, if this isn't properly resolved, the next person he blocks won't have enough knowledge of Misplaced Pages to appeal as I have. Making new editors welcome is one of the most important things in the entire project. 88.104.27.2 (talk) 15:48, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
Bwilkins has a history of incivility (for which he used an alt acct for awhile) and a history of stonewalling IPs. I believe you should let this drop as no one responds well to being forced to apologize. However if this still bothers you enough in a few days then start a Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/User conduct/Bwilkins. If you do so, I'll add a similar experience I had with him. Rgrds. --64.85.214.221 (talk) 16:00, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
As far as "A" goes, voice inflection makes a huge difference in "Why the FUCK did you do that" in an angry tone and "Why the fuck did you do that?" in a surprised tone or even a joking tone. Unfortunately, inflection isn't easily reproduced with text so you're better off erring on the safe side and just using "earth" instead. On another note, apologies are hard to come by on Misplaced Pages, don't hold your breath. You might just take 64.85.*'s advice.--v/r - TP16:17, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
A: Why did you revert me? Why on Earth did you revert me? Why the fuck did you revert me? - There is a difference in how civil these questions are. I don't think it was a 'great' block...but I don't think you should be arguing along this line. --Onorem♠Dil16:53, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
What happened here was quite simple: You displayed behavior indicative of a problem user, and Bwilkins hastily banned you for it. Had Bwilkins properly investigated the situation before acting he would have realized a ban was inappropriate, but had you not displayed bad behavior the situation would never have come up. You were right to appeal the block, and it was rightly removed, but you are not owed an apology as you share responsibility for the misunderstanding. -- LWG17:28, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
Let's not forget that what actually started this was an unwarranted and edit-summary-less reversion of a legitimate AIV report. Do you know who silently reverts AIV reports in my experience? Vandals naïvely trying to cover their tracks. And I am not saying that User:Seb_az86556 is a vandal; clearly not, but if you're going to chide people for 'behavior indicative of a problem user', please try to spread it around a little more evenly. This has been a cluster from beginning to end. Orange Suede Sofa (talk) 19:43, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Harassment
This is now bordering on harassment of Bwilkins. If the editor continues to pursue this WP:AXE to grind here, s/he may be blocked. RFC/U is the option at this point. Toddst1 (talk) 00:12, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Let me clarify that, before this is shuffled away;
Administrators are expected to respond promptly and civilly to queries about their Misplaced Pages-related conduct and administrator actions and to justify them when needed.
Administrators who seriously, or repeatedly, act in a problematic manner or have lost the trust or confidence of the community may be sanctioned or have their access removed. In the past, this has happened or been suggested for: Breach of basic policies (attacks, biting/civility, edit warring, privacy, etc.)
At what point does this become harassment? The block has been explained. The editor has been directed to all of the locations where the reasons for the block have been clearly stated. I'd block the harasser, but someone would probably say WP:INVOLVED (and they'd be right). This editor is either incompetent, a dick, a WP:TROLL, or simply someone who has it in for me. I hope it's the very latter, because I have thick enough skin to deal with them in that case, and it would also mean that we have some degree of HOPE that they'll become a productive editor someday. (✉→BWilkins←✎) 23:12, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
Oh, and by the way, this "editor" has yet to even ADVISE me that they had reported me here to AN. Seems to fit the pattern - the "rules" don't apply to them - only the made-up ones of their apply to others (✉→BWilkins←✎) 23:14, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
It's not very nice to call someone "incompetent, a dick, a TROLL". If anyone can show me where the block has been explained, that'd be great. Otherwise, I'd like a straight answer to my straight questions, viz. "Why did you block me? Which specific diffs do you think are "disruptive editing" worthy of a block with no warnings?". 88.104.27.2 (talk) 23:42, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
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Article ban request
NOT DONE
Thread has been opened for five days, the community has not come out in support of a topic ban. For long-term problems with specific users WP:RFC/U may be a better option. Beeblebrox (talk) 21:34, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
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I would kindly ask administrators to look at the conversation on the talk page of Jan z Jani and article ban ColonelHenry (talk) from further editing on that page. Reason: We faced a dispute regarding correct spelling of the name but the discussion move on forward in good way, the subject is quite difficult and we wish to reach consensus i matter. However, in last post of ColonelHenry (talk) 01:28, 20 March 2013 (UTC) the input is insulting me personally. ColonelHenry use words like polish Czy rozumiesz teraz, półgłówek? whitch can be translated to Do You now understand halfbrain or similar. Furtheremore, no statements of ColonelHenry have any given source or can verify or backup his statements. I fear that the way ColonelHenry act is destructive for further discussion in matter and also I feel it is not acceptable to insult anyone that contribute in this discussion. camdan (talk) 13:51, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
I welcome administrators or anyone to look at what have been posted. As You can see, I do not agree in most of what ColonelHenry is posting and I question academic value of his comments that I believe are of more personal character. The discussion can sometimes be hard and I also understand this but calling people by names is rude and not acceptable. I do not think that this board is for ColonelHenry or me to discuss this matter further since I asked administrators to overlook this question to come up with conclusions. Please respect that and let other persons come to their own conlusions. Thank you.camdan (talk) 18:44, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
Comment. I have no view on whether ColonelHenry should be banned from editing the Jan z Jani article. I do note that shortly after receiving two warnings and the threat of a block for personal attacks on other editors , ColonelHenry referred to me here as "morally despicable", "blatant dishonesty" and continued by harassing me on my talk page. Xxanthippe (talk) 23:56, 21 March 2013 (UTC).
Xxanthippe, you trolled a GA review to rehash old grudges on material that had no place per policy in the article, and then lied about something that could be easily refuted. And my only comment, that you call "harrassment" was to point out that the grudge rhetoric wasn't constructive.--ColonelHenry (talk) 07:15, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
The user doth protest too much, methinks. What is your interest here? What was your interest at the Thomas Traherne GA? (at which you offered nothing except rehashing old grudges...which I had forgotten and were not in the slightest bit relevant to the GA issues until you brought them back up. While "trolling" might be a loaded word, from an objective viewpoint your lingering around things regarding me and passive attempts to pick a fight and provoke when you do emerge from the shadow appears very furtively insidious. Did I really get under your skin so badly so long ago because I acted to improve an article in accordance with policy by relocating an inconsequential quotefarm to wikiquote and removed useless popular culture trivia section? Have you seriously been harbouring a grudge for 4 months and aching for any chance to feign victimhood? This is beyond ridiculous. --ColonelHenry (talk) 05:24, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
Comment I don't know enough about the backstory here to offer an opinion about an article ban, but I think it was inappropriate for ColonelHenry to refer to camdan (or any other editor) as a "half-wit" (Google translation). An apology is in order. — Malik Shabazz /Stalk04:24, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
Well, even if it was improper, neither party is blameless--although I doubt the other user, camdan, is willing to admit that or reciprocate...which makes his complaint rather disingenuous.--ColonelHenry (talk) 07:15, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
Looks like we have a blame game going on. I think it is disconcerting that after calling someone a half wit and being told that does deserve an apology that you can't just offer it. If you can't just say "I'm sorry" than how can your words here even be trusted.--Amadscientist (talk) 07:29, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
Well, frankly, I'm not inclined to apologise to someone who spent the previous three-days being disrespectful and condescending. What's worse is that apparently none of the comments take that user to task for their previous incivility, but just because I call him a "half-wit" for being obtuse, I'm automatically demonised. The best that's going to happen is I'll ignore him/her and the ridiculous hypocrisy of that user's complaining here when their previous statements were more abusive. I could care less, I commented on a requested move that ended up getting me notified when the matter was brought to WP:DRN, and there User:camdan has rather rudely said:
Your emotianal input have no sources and no value at all,
Your lack of knowledge in this subject is obviouse
Furtheremore, this subject is not about what You think since You do not have any academic degree in subject.
anyone that write on the subject should have academic education and those that do not have such education shuld actually reflect on what they are writing since it is just pure reflection of subjective mind and not scientific or academic.
That would be end of discussion! Please comment if You can provide any academic source on subject - Your translation of wiki rules are just trying to defend knowledge in subject that You do not have.
You certainly do not have any academic education at all in such subject, Your input is pure emotional (Note: I have two doctoral degrees, so his assumption was as baseless as it was wrong.).
You throw latin just to make people think that You have knowledge in subject that You do not have. You reference to french spelling is just embarrassing
Despite what User:camdan thinks, my statements on the matter at WP:RM, at WP:DRN, Talk:Jan z Jani were correct and backed by scholarship (For more information, see Wright, Roger. Latin and the Romance Languages in the Early Middle Ages. (London, New York: Routledge, 1991); and Late Latin and Early Romance in Spain and Carolingian France. (Liverpool: F. Cairns, 1982).
So, unless User:camdan is taken to task, any criticism of me lacks credibility. I really don't care if someone abuses me, I've never really had a thin-skin and I take a punch better than most. Until I said "half-wit" I was incredibly civil and willing to discuss the scholarship, despite being told by User:camdan I was essentially an uneducated idiot. And in the interest of the "pot calls the kettle black" school of thought:
I fear that the way ColonelHenry act is destructive for further discussion in matter and also I feel it is not acceptable to insult anyone that contribute in this discussion
You do seem to be a rather intelligent person to me. I am sure you can figure out why the above is not on the same level as name calling. Look, I doubt anyone is going to be topic banned here, but furthering the conflict in the manner you did was not appropriate. If someone makes accusations that just not accurate about your education that is pretty bad, but it is because we don't know each other here and sure, the other editor should not be discussing you in this manner. It was an act of escalation on their part. But you jumped right in and began making it worse by not just cooling down and making your case. I think this is a matter for both parties to simply back off from each other for the time being. Pretty simple...if you both can do it.--Amadscientist (talk) 21:47, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
I must be the uneducated idiot that User:camdan thinks I am because I seem to miss the distinction between someone being called a half-wit or being repeatedly belittled as "you must not be educated" (a less forward way of saying "you're a half-wit") and "you're not worthy of participating in this discussion" (i.e. again, effectively saying "you're a half-wit, go away"). Your assessment advocating a distinction strikes me as "splitting hairs". Lastly, I made my case...but apparently it wasn't deemed worthy or valueable for User:camdan to discuss on its merits because all I was told in response was several iterations of "you're an idiot, go away" in slightly more polite terms. But then again, *that* (for some Kafkaesque reason) isn't "name-calling."--ColonelHenry (talk) 05:43, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
@Malik Shabazz. If you ask ColonelHenry to apologize to camdan for calling him a "half-wit", which I think you are justified in doing, would you like to ask him to apologize to me for accusing me of being "morally despicable", "blatant dishonesty", "lied" and "trolled" (see above in this thread where the latter two insults are issued). Xxanthippe (talk) 23:39, 22 March 2013 (UTC).
First of all, this seems like a better fit for WP:ANI. Second, though I'm only tangentially related to the issue at hand (I performed a NAC on an RM at Jan z Jani), a quick look over the dispute suggests an interaction ban may be more constructive. --BDD (talk) 18:33, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
I think any talk of any sort of ban is ridiculous at this point...User:camdan has acknowledged that I was correct and dropped his objection at my talk page, and at Talk:Jan z Jani. This, for all intents and purposes, is a moot issue.--ColonelHenry (talk) 05:35, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
There is difference between influence on language and what is written in medieval sources - there are totally different things - if I talk about vitamines in tomatoes, why taling about onion and olive oil? So...I never questioned CH's education or knowledge about language and influence or his other knowledge but here he simply did not spend years in archives reading original sources - which is not the same as reading publications (contain errors). Therefore, writing about 19th century influence have nothing to do with this case and was destructive. In this link You find the work of Parpocki, although it have none academic value, it is still written in 16th century. Look at page 66 (64 in book version - what does it tell? And it does not matter whatever influence there is on language, it is simply matter of how names where spelled in Poland in medieval times - what is in original sources - and from that question if it would be better to spell names in medieval latin or polish on en:wiki - influence or not. The outcome was no, so case is closed and I have no problems with that. Still, I wish to discuss further matter of spelling in other way and maybe reach consensus and therefore, I wrote on this board, becaue if we are going to continue in same way, we just waste time - and we will face 100 more discussion like that in the future. So yes, I don't have any objections about the note in art Jan z Jani that CH wrote regarding influence on language and why should I, I never questioned that part, I questioned something else. camdan (talk) 00:26, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
It would be appreciated if an admin could review the relevant templates and remove the spurious | character that got inserted by mistake. This fix should resolve a long standing issue with certain license templates.Sfan00 IMG (talk) 13:04, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
I'm the one who answered the {{edit protected}} requests, and I really should have spotted the syntax error, so I'm feeling quite embarrassed now... I've fixed all the affected templates. However, if the request at Template talk:License migration complete is anything to go by, the templates will need to be changed yet again - which is enough to put me off touching them for now. If somebody else wants to fix them in the meantime, be my guest. — Mr. Stradivarius15:45, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
Despite the agreement of Peter Damian to stop all attempts to edit Misplaced Pages, he continued doing this. I noted this at User talk:Elen of the Roads#PD socking, reminding her of her earlier promise quoted above. The reply was a bit wishy-washy, but made it clear that she agreed basically that the agreement was now void. When further socking happened a few months later from User:86.169.241.160, I proceeded to restore the cats, user pages, and user talk pages, to make it easier to spot further socks and to clarify parts of the history behind this account for any newer or unaware editors (keeping also in mind the regular "let's unblock Peter Damian threads).
So now I wonder: a banned editor gets a courtesy blanking and deletion of most information relating to his socking, on the condition that he stops socking: he violates that agreement repeatedly; why should we keep "our" side of the bargain and keep relevant information hidden? We don't do the same for other long-term banned socks. Note, as a bonus, that a courtesy blanking and deletion was already done in 2008 when the editor exercised his "right to vanish". These deletions were also not undone, and most deletions of that user page are deleted as well. Socks from this time, like User:Renamed user 5, have been silently removed from the socks categories as well.
Why are some people, including members of ArbCom, going to all this trouble to "protect" the user name of this account (which, for clarity, isn't his real name), even when the user shows no interest in respecting his own promises in return? Why are tags and notices which are standard for all banned socks c.s. suddenly unacceptable in this case? Fram (talk) 15:52, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
This is coming across as a bit petty and WP:DICKish, honestly. Courtesy blanking is just that; a courtesy that was extended to this person at the time. Later actions shouldn't be used as a reason to renege or rescind a courtesy, any more than one would demand gifts to be returned from a spouse once they become an ex-spouse. Tarc (talk) 16:13, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
What an utterly bizarre argument. If he is continuing to sock (I've no idea if he is) then no such courtesy should apply, surely. The analogy with gifts to an ex-wife is just...unintelligable. Paul B (talk) 16:19, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
From my initial reading of Fram's post (and I of course wait to hear from everyone else involved before making a final decision) it appears that members of ArbCom have conspired to 'protect' a banned user who (perhaps) continues to sock, for some inexplicable reason. Fram, can you provide evidence of recent socking please? GiantSnowman16:24, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
I would strongly doubt that he is being allowed to edit again, under any name. From what I remember, he cooked his books and burnt his bridges very well and truly. The Arbcom would never be so foolish. Giano 16:29, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
Apparently you can't read: "If he is continuing to sock (I've no idea if he is) then no such courtesy should apply, surely." What was bizarre was the "logic" of Fram's assertion. Whether PD is in fact socking is a separate question from what should be done if he is. Paul B (talk) 17:35, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
My point should clear to anyone who is not choosing to ignore it. If you wish to make another "ya boo" comment go ahead. Paul B (talk) 17:41, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
@Paul B, it isn't rocket science; just because someone is rude to you doesn't give you an automatic right to be rude in return. Going back to a banned user's page and re-tagging it years after the fact was utterly pointless, it was of no benefit to the project. My analogy was sound, your lack of understanding is not a concern of mine. Tarc (talk) 17:13, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
Your analogy was nonsensical. My 'lack of understanding' is because it did not make sense. No-one is being rude to anyone. Providing information is the issue. It isn't rocket science. Paul B (talk) 17:39, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
It was not nonsensical or unintelligible, but your responses thus far have been just that. Let's try this real simple-like; 1) something courteous (blanking) was done for Damian. 2) Damian is alleged to have done something discourteous (socking) at some point later on. 3) Fram contends that that the original blanking was a sort of quid pro quo (that's, like, Latin, and stuff) now rendered null and void since one end was not upheld. 4) I feel that something done as a "courtesy" is not something that one usually takes back down the road, regardless of the actions of the other party...and if one does try to take such a thing back, it is somewhat of a dick move, hence the gift analogy. Now if you're done with the strawman (that's, like, logic, and stuff) retorts, maybe we can discuss the actual matter at hand. Tarc (talk) 17:50, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
Pointlesss, and a good indicator of one of Misplaced Pages's deepest problems; past indiscretions are never forgotten, or allowed to be laid to rest. MalleusFatuorum17:18, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
I seriously doubt there is an secret cabal of arbs and other admins that want to do nice things for Peter Damian or are protecting him. Tag warring over the content of banned user's pages is as tacky as it is pointless. WP:RBI, if there are any current socks at all, is a much better approach. Beeblebrox (talk) 17:33, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
Can everyone please stop having little digs at one another? First things first, we need evidence of PD's socking - then we can discuss whether or not there has been any attempt to 'hide' it by those in a position of power. GiantSnowman17:44, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
I don't think it really matters if there was socking or not. Re-tagging an old account as a "banned user" is simply Scarlet Letter-ish, to borrow a recently-used term for this. Tarc (talk) 18:04, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
The evidence of the continued socking? User:Hestiaea is one (e.g. and User talk:Sue Gardner/5, where the editor claims to be writing a book about Misplaced Pages, something Damian is doing as well), and the IP User:86.169.241.160 self-identifies as Damian (using Damian's real name, which he had disclosed on Misplaced Pages earlier, so no outing here) here. There may be others (or not), these are just two that happened to cross my watchlist. Hestiaea is the kind of user that pretends to be a novice with innocent questions, wasting the time of editors, e.g. at Misplaced Pages talk:Fringe theories/Noticeboard. Fram (talk) 18:35, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
Peter Damian is not writing that book alone, and in what sense is it "socking" if an IP reveals himself? Basically you have nothing but spiteful vengeance. MalleusFatuorum19:02, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
I didn't claim that he was writing that book on his own; if an IP reveals itself, it is still socking by all definitions (you don't suddenly get permission to edit with an edit or account as long as you reveal which banned user you actually are); and vengeance for what actually? Anyway, User talk:Jimbo Wales/Archive 116#Jagged 85 and Misplaced Pages accuracy has some more on Hestiaea, other IP socks, and Beeblebrox blocking the user. Fram (talk) 21:37, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
It's not "socking" by any rational definition of that term if an IP chooses to reveal him or herself. What an absurd idea. MalleusFatuorum00:35, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
Call it "accounts and IPs used to evade a ban" if you prefer, it hardly changes anything about the fundamental issues. And the Hestiaea account clearly was socking even in your definition. Fram (talk) 08:32, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
I've never witnessed so much apparently-clueless hypocrisy than I've just seen by reading this thread. If there's something everyone here should know by now, it's that people who want to edit the encyclopedia "anyone can edit" can't be stopped from doing so. Why anyone still cares is a mystery to me, I've long since stopped. If I left my front door wide open during the day, I shouldn't be surprised to come home and find my furniture gone and my beer supply reduced to empty bottles. - Who is John Galt?✉19:18, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
I think we are worrying needlessly. I'm quite sure Peter Damian manages to edit as an IP, but I am equally sure he will never again edit as an accepted named editor. Such as it is, I would stake my Misplaced Pages reputation on it - his history prevents that. Giano 19:22, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
I don't think we want to get rid of people, per se, we just want to get rid of their endless egotistical fuckwittery. If PD was not such an attention whore, he'd be quietly editing away under a new account somewhere and nobody would mind at all. Guy (Help!) 00:02, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
This is another aftershock of the recent Wikipediocracy controversy. Let's wish that people would just stop looking for trouble, especially if they don't identify their vendettas when they continue the drama. Kiefer.Wolfowitz22:08, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
Umm, wasn't this just announced here? I can't find it on this page or in the archives, so I'm questioning the page history, not your helpful notice. Nyttend (talk) 21:17, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
Yet another logic failure in my attempts to code a template... Can an admin revert the change made as a result of an edit protected request, and start a review of my suggested template modifcations back to January. I am having a distinct lack
of confidence in my ability at the moment.
Sorry, this was another mistake I made on Monday. The logic in the protected edit request was backwards, and I should have picked up on that when reviewing it. The revert improved the situation somewhat, but still wasn't entirely correct, so I have fixed it. With any luck, this time things should be working properly. I've also reduced the protection to semi, as there were only 500 transclusions. As to how to ensure this doesn't happen again, the answer is for me to actually check protected edit requests properly in the sandbox and test cases page before I make the edits. If anyone catches me being slapdash about this again, please apply trouts liberally to my talk page. (And by the way, it would have been nice to be informed about this thread.) — Mr. Stradivarius10:01, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
Hi. A user just left a note on my talk page alerting me to what seems to be a copy & paste move (see here). From what I can see, the page User:Lubnarizvi/sandbox was copy/pasted to Amina Inloes, and then both articles continued to develop independently. As far as I can tell, the two articles are now exactly the same. I'm not very experienced in this area; I think a history merge is necessary (but I don't know). Help from an admin experience in this area would be appreciated. Thanks. ItsZippy19:00, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
How about help from an admin who has been meaning to go ahead and learn this for a long time? I think I got it, but a double-check would not be a bad thing. Beeblebrox (talk) 19:15, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
Hmmm. Looking over this I'm not sure a histmerge should have been done, looks to me like there were parallel histories. I think it might have to be undone, but before doing anything I'll ping Graham87 – he's the expert in this area. Jenks24 (talk) 06:41, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
Probably not ... at least the sandbox revisions that were made *after* the page was moved to the main namespace shouldn't have been history merged (see this edit). But considering the difference between the last version that was in the main namespace before the history merge and the current version, along with this edit summary, there probably isn't any point in undoing the history merge. It just seems like the article was prematurely copy and pasted in to the main namespace before the subsequent sandbox edits, and Beeblebrox's history merge just had the effect of moving the latest version of the article to the main namespace, as
OK, so because the diff between the current revision and what was the current mainspace revision before the histmerge looks alright, it doesn't matter that a bit of the intermediate history looks a bit funky? Also, should the diffs that were from the sandbox but had nothing to do with the Amina Inloes article be retained in mainspace, or should they deleted/moved back to userspace? Jenks24 (talk) 08:20, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
Yes, that's correct. Oops, I didn't notice (or TBH even check properly) that the very earliest revisions in the history were irrelevant to the Amina Inloes article; I've moved them back to userspace. Graham8715:29, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I had no intention of creating a new user name nor editing from anything other than as an IP however since my work and home both user proxy servers and the IP's are dynamic and change frequently, the result appears as though I am socking. Since I am an outspoken critic of several areas in the community this gave my accusers an avenue for attack. So now I have created this username, which I intend to use solely for the purposes of editing here. This will eliminate the variable IP mess and will eliminate the arguments from some of my accusers who like to delete my comments because they don't agree. I notified a couple members of the Arbcom (I would have notified more but the Email spammer triggered) that I would notify the community of this new account so I could not be accused of socking and that I would create an account that would be easily identified as me to prevent any "confusion". I got no response after a couple days so I created it. Silence is consent. This is about as clear as it can get. I am trying to be honest and forthcoming here so if there are any questions let me know. KumiokoCleanStart (talk) 19:34, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
Kumioko, your account is both globally locked and locally indeffed. You're actively evading your (b)lock by editing here, no matter whether you do it under an IP or an account. The option of a clean start is not available to you. You know the rules well enough to know that none of what you're doing here is ok. If you want the right to edit Misplaced Pages, you will need to resolve the issues that have your account (b)locked; until then you're continuing to flagrantly violate policy. A fluffernutter is a sandwich! (talk) 19:56, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
Fair enough. I am globally blocked because that is what I wanted and persisted to get that. I was refused multiple times and had to post my password to get the global block. As for here, I am blocked here due to socking or the perception of socking. Mostly because of the variable IP's. I really wouldn't care about having the account and would be fine editing from an IP however since that is perceived as Socking because my IP's constantly change, this is necessary to "resolve" that as you put it. I also agree that a clean start isn't possible, for me or anyone else. In order for a clean start one needs to identify I was X now I am Y or else they will be charged with socking. I created another username in an attempt to clean start which was ThePhoenixReborn. That was when I knew for certain that a clean start wouldn't work for me and was affirmed that it was a garbage policy that probably should be deleted. I have edited all over, to a wide array of topics. My knowledge of the system and the rules is immediately recognized after a few edits. Its not like I edited some obscure topic like extinct flowers, I was all over, in every namespace across tens of thousands of pages, in multiple wiki's. Any other concerns you want me to address? KumiokoCleanStart (talk) 20:32, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
As the admin who indeffed Kumioko, I just want to go on the record saying that I'm fine with him returning with a new account if he's willing to edit solely with that account and not edit logged out. As I said after blocking, if he was willing to stop editing as an IP I would lift the block I'd placed, and as far as I'm concerned that is still the case. 28bytes (talk) 20:37, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
REQUEST REVIEWED, ACTION TAKEN
This request for administrative action has been reviewed and action taken. This is neither a forum for general discussion of a banned user nor a place to propose new policies. Beeblebrox (talk) 16:43, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The site-banned user Captain Occam (talk·tag·contribs·deleted contribs·logs·filter log·block user·block log·CA·CheckUser(log) ·investigate·cuwiki) is militating on wikipediocracy for anonymous accounts and established editors to make disruptive edits on wikipedia on his behalf. The IP above has twice removed an arbcom notice placed on the User:Captain Occam by an arbcom clerk when implementing Captain Occam's indefinite site-ban. It was previously removed by another IP. From what he has posted on wikipediocracy, Captain Occam intends to disrupt wikipedia. Amongst other things, he has intimated that he would like to help mount an arbcom case concerning MastCell (talk·contribs·blocks·protections·deletions·page moves·rights·RfA). In those circumstances, there is no reason for him or others to have access to either his user talk page or uner talk page.
I've fully protected the user page, reblocked Occam without TP access, and hatted the entire page. Hopefully that will be sufficient. Beeblebrox (talk) 19:58, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
The intent is to just stop all drama and tag warring in its tracks, which is what, so far, is happening. Let's just leave it at that please. Beeblebrox (talk) 01:57, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
Mathsci policing those with whom he has editorially disagreed needlessly adds to the drama. Others can protect WP just as well. Just saying. VєсrumЬа ►TALK02:15, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
"Needlessly"? Seems pretty needed to me - and Mathsci has a better handle on these people than anyone else around, so that's a prety clueless remark. Just sayin' Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:21, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
Many thanks to Beeblebrox.
In reply to Vecrumba. I have no "editorial disagreement" or "ideological differences" with Captain Occam. He is a site-banned user, who was banned for being disruptive. That disruption partly involves proxy-editing and sockpuppetry. It continued during the whole of 2012 through repeated misuse of arbcom processes. Off-wiki he has been nurtured and encouraged by a small coterie of wikipediocracy moderators. One consequence on wikipedia has been the resubmission of evidence previously rejected on several occasions by arbcom. The problem has nothing to do with the editing of articles. Mathsci (talk) 06:27, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Giovanni Di Stefano
Old-timers and OTRS agents may remember Giovanni Di Stefano (businessman) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views), who threatened the WMF with action over his Misplaced Pages biography. He was today convicted of nine counts of obtaining a money transfer by deception, eight counts of fraud, three counts of acquiring criminal property, two counts of using a false instrument, one count of attempting to obtain a money transfer by deception, one count of obtaining property by deception and one count of using criminal property, related to his fake claims to be a lawyer. I must confess to some small personal satisfaction in adding that fact, sourced to three separate news organisations, to his biography. A great case of WP:DEADLINE: having bent over backwards to be fair to him, as we should, and having been attacked even so, we can now document the fact, adjudicated by a court, that he is a fake. No statement from him in reaction as yet but I expect an appeal. Guy (Help!) 16:16, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
I see that the early revisions have all been revdel'd, but there is no entry in the deletion log. Can they be restored? -- King of♥♦♣ ♠ 18:17, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
I was going to suggest contacting the admin who did the deletions but, yeah, I can't figure out who that was either. Beeblebrox (talk) 21:07, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
I suggest that restoring any revisions be done with caution. I don't know the history here or what might have been deleted, but if there were unsourced allegations, they should not be restored - just because someone has been convicted of a crime now does not mean that our normal policies about living persons no longer apply. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 22:05, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
I would agree with this. I don't see how we have a desperate need for these lost revisions; if stuff needs to be "restored" it can be added anew from the original sources. Mangoe (talk) 22:08, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
The pair of deleted revisions from last September have been oversighted; you'd need an oversighter to restore them. It's hard to find them in the deletion log because the page has been moved multiple times and the logs don't move when the page does; if you check the logs for Giovanni di Stefano, you'll find that Coren removed a ton of revisions on 3 July 2009, citing "Attribution fix (avoid BLP)". The original version of the article had a bunch of information on him getting convicted of some things in the past, and the first publicly visible edit was one that removed a bunch of conviction-related things that appeared to be decently sourced, such as the (now dead-linked) http://nz.news.yahoo.com/071030/3/287t.html. At least the most recent of the deleted revisions appears fine (barring threats from the subject, I see no reason for it to have been removed), so I think it would be good to ask Coren for an undeletion. Note that there are also 472 deleted revisions in the history of Giovanni di Stefano; some are fragments of pagemoves, but others have content that might be worthy of undeletion; I've not looked at them, so I can't say. Nyttend (talk) 22:41, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
I hadn't realized it had been moved more than once, that would explain it. I did check the OS log, obviously I can't go into specifics but those edits will indeed need to remain suppressed. I also agree that caution should be used and the revdeleted material should not just be put back wholesale. I'd ask Coren first, but basically any admin who wants to can review them one at a time and restore them if it seems warranted. Beeblebrox (talk) 23:05, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
I would just undelete the lot, frankly. I don't know what's in those diffs but from the contents of the talk page archives, it seems clear that Di Stefano was objecting to reliably sourced info about his criminal record. Of course, today's verdict makes it clear that his objections were just as fraudulent as anything else he got up to. Prioryman (talk) 23:40, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
To note: The Devil's Advocate (talk·contribs) appears to be trying to whitewash the article by removing mention of Di Stefano being a convicted fraudster and retitling it as referring to him as a "legal counsellor", which he never claimed to be. He also appears to be move warring. This is evidently in response to agitation on Wikipediocracy. Prioryman (talk) 00:55, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
Anyone who looks at the sources and article will see that his claim to notability arises from him offering legal services to notorious people. That fraud is also often brought up in this context does not mean it is appropriate to define him as a fraudster and act like that is why people should know more about him. If you have a better term than suggest one, but labeling someone a fraudster at the top of their bio should only be done if being engaged in fraud is why the person is notable. Seems Stefano is notable primarily for his activities as legal counsel so anything that is faithful to that would be better, and he has simply faced fraud counts for presenting himself as having the necessary qualifications to serve that role.--The Devil's Advocatetlk.cntrb.01:30, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
If my memory serves, the early revisions mixed some (now proven) fact with some editorialising. We now have better sources, there's not much to be gained by restoring the early revisions, particularly as it would require a very careful rev by rev analysis to ensure that the material is accurate and well supported, and other material is not slipstreamed. Guy (Help!) 17:56, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
Which is the "original version" of WP: Spelling in this case?
An RfC at WP: Spelling has not yet produced a consensus after being up for quite a while. One of the two parties involved in the original dispute says that the original version of the text must now be restored. The other party does not contest this, but there is some question as to which version counts as the original. The first party claims that the original version is the one that contains all of that party's own changes and none of the other party's (this version is currently displayed) . The second party believes that the version of the page from immediately before the two of them began making changes should be considered the original .
Which is version should be considered "original" in this case? Is returning to the original what should be done after an RfC?
The original dispute is about whether "theater" and "theatre" mean different things in American English. The text in question is under "Different spellings, different meanings." 17:10, 27 March 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Darkfrog24 (talk • contribs)
Neither. The last stable version is where you revert to. This will generally mean, as the second part said, the version from immediately before the two of them began making changes. Not always, but generally that's the case.--v/r - TP17:29, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
The two of us started making changes right after the other. The first party mentioned above did one version on roughly March 7 and the second party did another on roughly March 7 and 8, so neither one was in place very long. Much obliged if an admin would restore the page to last stable status. The page history can be found here and it's all visible on one screen (though the same cannot be said of the talk page discussion). The current dispute is between users Darkfrog24 and Amadscientist.
Looks like a mess to me. I say pick a version, any version. On a side note... any particular reason you're referring to yourself in the 3rd person? — PinkAmpers&21:40, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
In the interest of neutrality, as in an RfC request. I didn't want to bias the first respondent. And no, I don't want a sysop to change it from one wrong version to another. I want an admin to change it from one wrong version to a correct version, preferably without deleting changes made to this page that have nothing to do with the dispute. As for "pick a version, any version," I've got some suggestions here but feel free to add more. If you ask me, just telling the readers what the sources actually said would sidestep a lot of these problems. Darkfrog24 (talk) 21:47, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
Round Two done, Round Three is up
Round Two of the Requests for Comment (RfC) on the Requests for Adminship (RfA) process was a success by any measure, and has now been closed. The final round is a one-week vote on two proposals that got support, but relatively few votes, so we're advertising widely and hoping for broader participation in Round Three. - Dank (push to talk) 23:42, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Fladrif has proposed a site ban and topic bans at Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Niemti#Motion_to_close, which is not the usual page for such proposals, but perhaps it would be best not to move the discussion. This RFC/U has been going on since November; my closure was reverted. I think the disputants are going to require firm assistance in getting this elderly RFC/U shut down. WhatamIdoing (talk) 00:03, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
It's absolutely the wrong venue to discuss a "community" topic ban. It's not a community ban by any sorts. It's a ban by editors with beef and a couple uninvolved passersby. It just simply doesn't get the audience required to enact such a proposal. That's why Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_comment/User_conduct/Guidance says "What RfC/U CANNOT do is: Impose/enforce involuntary sanctions, blocks, bans, or binding disciplinary measures." The proposal will have to move here or it's invalid. Your close was reverted because you didn't follow the guidelines at Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_comment/User_conduct/Closing but other than that there is no real reason you couldn't close it. Just keep in mind that the ban proposal can't be done on an RFC/U.--v/r - TP12:48, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
TParis more or less has it - it would be fine to close that RfC as "proposals will be made on AN" or if you don't want to haul the entire discussion history here, you could probably just close it and then do an AN proposal asking the community to ratify "the suggestions in the motion to close on the RfC." But involuntary sanctions do need to be ratified here in some form, and an archiving of the RfC with no result or close text, which (seems to be?) what WhatamIdoing attempted is downright odd. WhatamIdoing, if you want to close it that's fine but you'll need to close it with some content in the close, based on the consensus (or lack thereof, I've only skimmed it) of the RfC. A fluffernutter is a sandwich! (talk) 14:47, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
And while you're here, Whatamidoing, I'm going to go ahead and throw you under the bus: When will we be able to support you at RfA?--v/r - TP15:10, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
Actually, the close was reverted because the disputants couldn't bring themselves to believe that RFC/Users/Closing really does say that RFC/Us should be closed after about a month or so if no progress is being made, despite no agreement having been reached, not because of any failure to follow the four steps on my part. They are simple enough steps: paste two templates, delete one line, and update a table. Closing statements are not provided in these instances. Whoever updates the table this time will see that the page has been listed as closed there for a long while. WhatamIdoing (talk) 00:05, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
Looks like there is pretty clear consensus that the RFC needs to be closed, and that the formal ban needs to take place here, not there. So we'll need an uninvolved person to close (I participated.) and then assumeably someone will restart a more formal ban discussion here. Sergecross73msg me15:28, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
Yep. An uninvolved admin will have to summarize the RFC to see if a block is necessary and we can reference the additional evidence subpage if we have a ban discussion. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 15:41, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
and I suggest that the page needs to be fully protected until the situation is resolved. I make my comment here because that is where the thread started. Xxanthippe (talk) 05:42, 29 March 2013 (UTC).
Agreed: I've just fully protected the article for 72 hours. Any admin may lift this protection (and drop the article back to semi protection) without consulting me if something is reported either way in reliable sources - as yet, there's nothing in reliable sources about this. Nick-D (talk) 06:40, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
It's almost certainly true, but since everybody questioned by police these days gets arrested, it is also of very limited value. We should wait until a statement is made by the police. Guy (Help!) 17:53, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
An arbitration case regarding SchuminWeb, and previously suspended by motion, has now closed. The original temporary injuction has been enacted:
Should SchuminWeb decide to resign his administrative tools, the case will be closed and no further action taken. Should SchuminWeb not return to participate in the case within three months the account will be desysopped. If the tools are resigned or removed in either of the circumstances described above, restoration of the tools to SchuminWeb will require a new request for adminship.
This is a case of the user would rather just quite editing and take the desysop than waste a bunch of time in discussions in an Arbcom case and then be desysopped. This is precisely the type of situation that I have been talking about for months. Once an Arbcom case is accepted, the end result is that individual is desysopped, blocked or both. The Arb's wouldn't even take the case unless they thought it had merits so once its been excepted the end result is pretty clear and consistant, so why even bother arguing it? Is this really the message we want to send to the users of the site about Arbcom? I think not. KumiokoCleanStart (talk) 16:40, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
I added the "discuss this" link that (I think) Hahc21 forgot. Traditionally people have argued endlessly and fruitlessly about ArbCom decisions at WT:AC/N, not here. This board is more for arguing endlessly and fruitlessly about other stuff. --Floquenbeam (talk) 16:46, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
"the RfC concludes that Niemti has regularly and over a long period of time engaged in misconduct such as incivility and personal attacks, article ownership, not using edit summaries, and disruption of the "good articles" process. Niemti has not indicated any readiness to change their conduct. There is consensus, in #Motion to close, that a proposal to site-ban and to topic-ban Niemti should be submitted to the community."
Accordingly, I refer the following proposal, as discussed in the RfC (with some copyediting to reflect current sanctions terminology) to the community.
Please indicate which parts of this proposal you support or oppose. My understanding is that the parts of the proposal are not mutually exclusive. Because this referral is part of the RfC closure, I myself am neutral. Sandstein 12:07, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for the sources. I guess SNK's artists think Garou Terry was made to be cooler than regular Terry. This is not the first time they said that. In an article related to KOF 12, the staff said they wanted to reuse the original "macho" Terry rather than Garou's one. I guess it's similar to Kyo's redesigns where he starts wearing stylish costumes rather than the classic bancho school uniform often seen in many series like Jotaro Kujo from Jojo.Tintor2 (talk) 15:44, 3 August 2018 (UTC)
Malarkey such as creating grotesquely overdetailed articles on game characters over a redirect that has been agreed on in a wiki community discussion is the kind of behavior that , if persisted with, gets you 'blocked'.TheLongTone (talk) 13:54, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
I think you should check up on what constitutes vandalism. And if you have reported me to the admins, I would point out that it is the done thing to notify the person you have dobbed in.TheLongTone (talk) 12:16, 18 August 2018 (UTC)
SNAAAAKE!! - I'm not sure if you figured out what triggered the warning so if not, it was repetitive categorization - wait until the article is moved into mainspace and then add the categories. I didn't realize it would trigger such a warning, either. 😊 18:38, 18 August 2018 (UTC)
ADDING: My mistake - the article being moved into draft space is what caused it - I had it backwards. 19:08, 18 August 2018 (UTC)
It looks to me like feathering caused the washed edges when the image was removed from the background. Scale back the feathering to 1 or 2 px — I assume you’re using the oval tool as well?? 19:18, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
SNAAAAKE!!, if you ever feel like another editor is making a wrong edit, or that you are being unfairly treated, please ping Atsme, myself or seek relevant project/noticeboard for advice before getting too involved. You have been doing good work, I would like to see it continue. Alex Shih (talk) 15:36, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
Hi, Alex - I’m traveling and unable to look into this issue the way it should be, but I did see above that the editor who provoked SNAAAAKE!! needs to seek other alternatives for resolution as he was advised to do by Mrz7 as evidenced in this diff.. I have asked SNAAAAKE!! to disengage, and I am working with Nikkimaria trying to get the ce done, and helping as I can with the articles SNAAAAKE!! has worked so hard on to prepare for GAC/FAC. We welcome all productive collaboration but unfounded provocation makes it difficult to keep things collegial. 18:38, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
Meh - let’s stay focused on getting the articles to GA and not worry about distractions. How did you fix the pic? 21:03, 22 August 2018 (UTC)
Eh, I don't even want any GAs anymore just to make this properly written especially as it's highly popular right now (right now = for a year or so) due to the huge popularity of Fate Grand Order. I didn't do anything with the pic myself. SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 08:33, 23 August 2018 (UTC)
Jill Valentine
Hi. I noticed this edit on Beemer69's talk page, and was wondering if you'd like to discuss the article before I renominate it for FAC. What exactly is it you want to "share", sources or comments? Thanks. Homeostasis 22:45, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
I don't think I'm supposed to be arguing with any ideologues on the terms of my, um, probation. Especially since even unprovoked they've already attacked me by name right there. But I've got a plenty of sources from old magazines, others who are seriously into Resi have all these Capcom books and stuff. SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 08:19, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
Orphaned non-free image File:Joe Musashi.png
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Any SNK heroine that might be worthy of an article
As you know, SNK is releasing a fighting game centered around most of their female characters. Considering she is in the cover, I wondered if Kula might be able to surpass WP:Notability. I know some sources that talk about her creation (concept, appearance intention, gameplay in KOFXIII, and her redesigns for Maximum Impact). Den of Geek also listed her as one of the best KOF characters but I couldn't find much more reception information. In case you are interested, I'm willing to help. Cheers.Tintor2 (talk) 00:40, 6 September 2018 (UTC)
King, but good luck finding stuff for her with searches. Better update and expand articles like King of Fighters, where most KOF games aren't even mentioned. SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 04:22, 6 September 2018 (UTC)
Yeah, but it would add at least more notability similar to that R. Mika article. I mean, do you think the two paragraphs of the current sandbox can make it pass notability?Tintor2 (talk) 16:09, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
It's not worth it. Really better for example fix the KOF article that doesn't even mention most games from the last decade and half, also make articles about the recent mobile games that are very popular in China (using Chinese and Japanese sources, because you can't count on western "game journalists" to report on video games). --SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 16:12, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
Thanks. Still, it might be hard to create Eastern-only games because the sources would be impossible to read. Even the SNK Wiki's articles barely have content about them.Tintor2 (talk) 16:21, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
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I managed to highly expand the reception section from Athena Asamiya but I'm worried about Yuri Sakazaki's notability. If you found sources for her, I would appreciate it and add them to the article. I was also thinking of having an article for Leona Heidern but it seems there are not many sources besides some articles from Den of Geek. Cheers and happy editing.Tintor2 (talk) 22:33, 8 October 2018 (UTC)
I gave the wrong guideline for retaining BCE dates in the Circle article. It is MOS:ERA, backed by MOS:DATERET, which reads in part: "The date format chosen by the first major contributor in the early stages of an article should continue to be used". Please don't start an edit war. Sweetpool50 (talk) 17:20, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
Guidelines leave creators free to choose which era is appropriate to an article. Circe was a 'pagan' goddess and her ancient representations fall within an era well before Christianity even existed, therefore Common Era dating fits better in that context. Just appealing to use on "Misplaced Pages as a whole" is meaningless without taking rationale for use into consideration. Sweetpool50 (talk) 09:59, 19 October 2018 (UTC)
Kula Diamond
I did Spanish game reviews research and found more reception about KOF character Kula Diamond so I decided to try a new article. Feel free to add anything.
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Hello, just a week ago I created a new table as an idea on the Soul Calibur talk page. Unfortunately, no one has yet answered, whether this idea is good or if there is something negartive. Could you please have a look. I do not want to change the table on the main page without a vote. ---TheKerberos01, 01:34, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
I refer to your edits at Sheva Alomar. Please read MOS:SURNAME. "After the initial mention of any name, the person should generally be referred to by surname only". Accordingly, I'm going to revert all your changes of 'Redfield and Alomar' to 'Chris and Sheva'. This was one of many issues in the article I had to fix at this article before I was able to successfully nominate it for GA. Please don't ever change surnames to first names at any article. Have a nice day. Damien Linnane (talk) 10:22, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
Also please read MOS:ALLCAPS; don't put references in all capital letters (Such as: 'TOP5 HATED CHARACTERS (THAT YOU WEREN'T SUPPOSED TO HATE)' even if that's how it appeared in the original source. Thanks. Damien Linnane (talk) 10:46, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
I'm very concerned by your addition of the extremely long quote by voice actress Karen Dyer. So as you no doubt would have noticed I took it upon myself to 'adopt' several of the articles you had written after you were blocked. As I worked on your articles I was continually impressed by your ability to find information and your attention to detail, however, was also quite frankly mortified by your inability to format references, tell the difference between reliable and non-reliable sources, and also your need to add insane amounts of trivial over-detail. This new quote by Dyer is an example of the latter. It's the kind of over-detail I had to remove before I could get any of the articles you had worked on to GA level. I mean, you've added seven sentences of quotes, but I don't see a single thing of value in any one of them. "I think she is also driven, heart-wise"; how is that helpful to the reader? The only thing I see as being useful to the reader is the opening sentence about her training to use firearms. Personally I'd delete every single one of those seven sentences. Perhaps you could have a one sentence summary of Dyer's thoughts on Alomar (though personally I wouldn't even add that). Damien Linnane (talk) 11:24, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
Again, it's Sheva not "Alomar". In both the official and the common use, as in the case of all RE protagonists. I'm really "mortified" more by that. The article could be as well named "Sheva (Resident Evil)", you know? Just like Sophitia Alexandra's article is just Sophitia, it's very common in video games that surnames are just unimportant. SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 11:28, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
(Copying from my talk page since you're replying here as well now) I understand the term Sheva is used much more frequently than Alomar, but that doesn't change the fact the Alomar is her last name. As per MOS:SURNAME, that's how we format names on Misplaced Pages. It's exactly the same for film plots. I was told to change all the instances of 'Chris and Sheva' to 'Redfield and Alomar' before Resident Evil 5 could become a good article. I'm 100% they would have brought up the issue of last names at the FAC if they hadn't already been formatted properly. Damien Linnane (talk) 11:29, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
Also Sophitia isn't a good article, Sheva Alomar is, and RE5 (which also calls her Alomar) is featured, so I think that's a very poor comparison. I'd be happy to raise the issue at Project Video Games and accept whatever consensus is reached there. Damien Linnane (talk) 11:36, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
The reviewers were simply wrong. It happens, people being clueless about things. The surname of Sheva is even (and much) less important than, for example, the surname the horror monster Jason (nominally "Jason Voorhees", and there is actually some importance to it due to his mother, but it's just Jason, including in his FA Jason Voorhees where "Jason" goes over 400 times and "Voorhees" less than 40). SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 12:02, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
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I noticed you are good with uploading image. I've been trying to upload two images for the infobxes of Shinya Kogami and Akane Tsunemori but they end up with a black background. Can you check those two to upload images with better background? Happy editing.Tintor2 (talk) 16:05, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
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Hello, SNAAAAKE!!. Voting in the 2018 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 3 December. All users who registered an account before Sunday, 28 October 2018, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Thursday, 1 November 2018 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.
The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Misplaced Pages arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.
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SNAAAAKE, let's discuss this, ok? There are always work-arounds when consensus decides to change something. If you believe you have a convincing argument to oppose the proposed change, then let's present your argument calmly. I'm watching your TP, and ask that you please not respond anymore at the RfC. If anything, I hope you will strike the comments you made that were directed at editors and not content. Ok? The proposal also stated that the 3 unique fields this template has could either use the custom fields available at Template:Infobox character or be merged into the template itself and be available directly. So you're really not losing the important template parameters, they are being merged into a single template. Perhaps there can be an additional parameter that designates what you need it to do for the video game character? 19:26, 23 December 2018 (UTC)
I was about to say "OK, I'm finished there. It's not that I'm even going to prevail obviously." but now the new excellent idea is to delete everything that matters in this case as "trivia" to be replaced by actual trivia. SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 20:21, 23 December 2018 (UTC)
I figured you were - you've done so well in this topic area, and I am so impressed with the wonderful work you've done/been doing. I'm trying not to appear patronizing but as I've expressed to you in the past, I've been a fan of your writing from the get-go, and continue to be so it's probably a bit selfish on my part to want to keep you editing. PS: There was a King Arthur movie on DirecTV last night, and I thought of you and the wonderful work you've done on WP. How about this - let the RfC run its course, and then we can discuss some of the parameters you need to maintain the "historic format" or whatever it is you want to keep? Infoboxes are...well...see Misplaced Pages:Tarage's Law. 😂 20:39, 23 December 2018 (UTC)
Oh really, "a fan"? That's oh, wow, thank you! Anyway, I just had prove that a fighting style is actually of importance for a *fighting* game character. SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 21:48, 23 December 2018 (UTC)
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I've been temporarily incapacitated because of a pinched nerve in my left shoulder, so I spent the day resting, and watching Season 1 of The Adventures of Merlin on Netflix. It made think of the wonderful work you've been doing in that same topic area. 00:52, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
Update - I actually have been working on the lead for Mordred but so far nothing has transferred from my brain to the keyboard. Good thing there's no deadline. I didn't want you to think I forgot. 01:22, 1 February 2019 (UTC)
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Can you really not be bothered to edit in a collaborative spirit?Eric03:58, 31 January 2019 (UTC)
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Thanks! Eric14:56, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
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I imagine your focus is 100% on writing good prose/content when you're editing articles. I understand because that's what I try to stay focused on as well. As a result, I tend to forget to write an edit summary before I save the edit. Unfortunately, edits without an edit summary are an impediment to other editors for various reasons. To remedy my shortfall, I went to User Preferences, then to Editing, scrolled down to Editor, and checked Prompt me when entering a blank edit summary. Clear your cache, and you will be reminded by a pop-up to add the much needed edit summary. It certainly helped me. 15:09, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
I've been working on the Fate articles and created two. For Kiritsugu, I found this image that shows his body better than the current one. Could you please change it to show only his body rather than the background too? Regards.Tintor2 (talk) 17:18, 9 March 2019 (UTC)
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NOTE: I cannot impress upon you enough to use edit summaries, especially when you are merging material from one article to another, and even more so when you are blending them into various sections as you did at Circe. See WP:MERGE "When performing a merger, one should remember to reconcile talk pages, and to attribute copied content, as required by Misplaced Pages's license. At minumum, this means adding words "Merged content to/from page" to edit summaries." Further how-to instructions follow on that page. If you have not activated the edit summary reminder feature in your user preferences, please do so after you read this note. 📣📧11:16, 13 March 2019 (UTC)
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WP:PROSPLIT contains the procedure for proposing a split. You need to create a descriptively-named section on the talk page and generate a cogent proposal for what sections you are proposing to split (and to where). I suggest starting a new section, since the one you referenced here isn't off to a great start. VQuakr (talk) 16:34, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
I agree with VQuakr for the most part; however, it is sometimes better to get a temperature reading of the local article watchers first. I weighed-in with stats but won't be going back. Talk📧18:43, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
They're literally about the only people in the whole wide world that use this nickname (was never the real name) anymore, and they do it for both the historical ISIS (yet not the previous ISI) and the current IS. --SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 19:32, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
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Hi SNAAAAAKE!! ! Thank you for helping to report vandals! That's really helpful to all of us. However, some people may take offense at the edits you made here. Please take note WP:CIVIL is an official policy that states all editors must behave civilly during discussions and avoid insults and personal attacks. Regards, Optakeover10:28, 8 April 2019 (UTC)
Take a look
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Yes, I know books by this author, and he also often appears on various talk shows. I also happy to see you around. But I am kind of busy with real life things. Happy editing! My very best wishes (talk) 04:53, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
Edit summaries
Hi there SNAAAAKE!! (talk·contribs). I noticed your edits to World of Tanks, and while I appreciate your work done to the article, I noticed the lack of edit summaries in your edits. Please provide an edit summary when submitting edits to Misplaced Pages, as they help other editors traverse and understand the edit history of an article. If you continue to do this - evident as other users have posted years ago about your lack of edit summaries - then at the very least, please consolidate your edits. Thank you.
Please do not remove content or templates from pages on Misplaced Pages, as you did to Samurai Shodown (2019 video game), without giving a valid reason for the removal in the edit summary. Your content removal does not appear to be constructive and has been reverted. If you only meant to make a test edit, please use the sandbox for that. Thank you. Jotamide (talk) 16:51, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
Shaving down the infobox to game-only portrayals was suggested during my process of getting Ermac to GA status in order to avoid clutter. But yeah, the edit was kinda out of nowhere, so apologies for that. sixtynine15:16, 18 May 2019 (UTC)
I've explained at (where there was no reply contesting it) plus now (different arguments/approach actually). There was also kinda Chernobyl (miniseries) where people kept removing my improvement tags until I've given up (but they're in wrong). SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 21:54, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
Nothing in the editorial you’ve written on that talk page you linked to addresses whether or not you’re both under, and violated, a 1RR editing restriction. Sergecross73msg me21:57, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
SNAAAAKE!!, it doesn't matter who is right or wrong, what matters is who gets caught in the 3RR revert trap or worse - DS and 1RR. Unfortunately, your prior history places you at a disadvantage but you CAN/HAVE overcome that obstacle by stepping back and taking the advice of others who share your goals in getting the article right. When you find yourself in a squeeze, you can email me and/or ask questions on my TP where helpful (talk page stalker) can also weigh-in. You are too valuable a contributor to get caught in the web of reverts. Talk📧22:03, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
Just saying I'm discussing on talk pages (and began before it came to attention). You can revert me if you want, or either just go and see if I'm right (or not). SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 22:07, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
You have been blocked from editing for a period of one week for violating your 1RR restriction. I was 50-50 on going with an indef, but I'm going to err on the side of leniency and give you one last chance. I suggest you listen closely to your mentor and tread as lightly as humanly possible. No more missteps. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make useful contributions. If you think there are good reasons for being unblocked, please read the guide to appealing blocks, then add the following text below the block notice on your talk page: {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}.
You'll have to bring that up with the admin that applied the restriction first. If that fails, you can bring it to wider admin review. El_C22:25, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
Hi, SNAAAAKE!! - remember, patience is a virtue. I was reading some of the back and forth at Talk:Quiet (Metal Gear) and it inspired me to ask if maybe there is enough coverage of "oversexualization of women in video games" for you to create an article? Whenever you become frustrated during a debate, it is always better to pull yourself away from it and focus on something else for a while. You can always go back later when there's not so much heat in the kitchen, and can approach others with a calm that furthers the chances of your proposal gaining acceptance rather than rejection. Also keep in mind that when editors disagree on a particular approach, or addition/removal of material, it is better to not bludgeon and simply call an RfC and let consensus decide. No editor can win 100% of the arguments, right or wrong - it's the nature of the beast - so I'm asking you to please not let yourself get so wrapped-up that it becomes irreversibly frustrating and causes you to say/do something you'll regret later. Ok? If you think the new article has merit, let me know and I'll help you find RS. Talk📧12:05, 8 June 2019 (UTC)
I don't think "oversexualization of women in video games" is real. The whole notion is a product of the weird "secular Puritan" American culture that was once championed by so-called "sex-negative feminists" and fundamentalist Christians, but now has taken over the self-professed "progressive" mainstream that is doing absolutely crazy things like celebrating/promoting Islamic hijabs in the West. SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 12:08, 8 June 2019 (UTC)
Really? Ironically, you have inadvertently reinforced the need for such an article by bringing forward a different POV. See if there are RS you can cite to avoid WP:OR and voila! - we have an insightful and necessary new article in the pedia. Talk📧12:23, 8 June 2019 (UTC)
Yes, really, that's what I talk about - the supposedly-progressive hipster weirdos calling themselves "games journalists" with opinions more aligned with the Islamist norms than the Japanese culture they hate so much. SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 12:35, 8 June 2019 (UTC)
And they also hate the gamer culture, whcih is what GamerGate was really about (and not their lies in the literally thousands of completely false articles that Misplaced Pages's ridiculous article "Gamergate controversy" is based on and they actually often link to Misplaced Pages from their articles) - it was a fight-back response of long-bottled frustration from gamers against journalists sparked by how in a period of 48 hours about a dozen articles in different outlets declared the gamer culture to be over and finished (the "Gamers Are Dead") in a coordinated attack via a mailing list called GameJournoPros. So it's really a war between gamers and "games journalists" and their various allies and fellow travelers (other journalists, grievance-studies academia), who completely control the official narrative. It's a very long story very short. SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 12:44, 8 June 2019 (UTC)
Maybe that isn't such a good topic for you (or me). I’ve heard a little about gamergate and prefer to steer clear. How are things looking for potential GA/FA promotion on the Arthurian legend articles? Do you see any candidates? Talk📧12:54, 8 June 2019 (UTC)
Only if you place it in Category:Urban legends, along with the likes of Satanic ritual abuse and other such moral panics. Category:Hoaxes in the United States and Category:Mass hysteria too. (talk) 09:11, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
I mean, it's not really any of that, it's just a difference opinion between these criticisms and your beliefs on the matter. I suggest you relax and stop creating a hysteria over these criticisms. - Bryn(talk)(contributions)10:28, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
If you give a title "Oversexualization of women in video games", instead if something like "Criticism of sexuality / sexual themes in video games", then yes, it will be "a hysteria" indeed, but not mine. Btw, there is already the article Video game controversies, largely about the hysteria related to the so-called "violent games" (no video game was ever violent, unlike many conventional sports), but there is a section "sexual themes" as well. (I also happened to write the article Controversies surrounding Mortal Kombat myself.) Oh, and there is Sex and nudity in video games too, as i just found out. --SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 10:57, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
We're talking about the reaction, and the concept of 'oversexualization of women in video games' is a specific subject that gets a lot of press. We're just writing about what critics and authors have written about. - Bryn(talk)(contributions)11:09, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
I mean, video game controversies is a thing, and then gender representation in video games in a thing in that. Going further, oversexualization is a very specific concept, not necessarily merely a topic of sex and nudity. - Bryn(talk)(contributions)11:27, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
With Gender representation in video games you can also talk about a possible "concept of 'oversexualization of men in video games'" in a relevant section. And btw, as I'm writing about Lancelot, Lancelot-Grail, and Lancelot propane accessories right now, I find quite bemusing Misplaced Pages's use of 'damsel in distress' in video games as something somehow anti-women, but that's the same Misplaced Pages that as I also just found out for example claims GamerGate happened in 2013 (and commented on it with ). But I'm going to just pretend it's not "mine" Misplaced Pages of fact and science, its just the Clown World Misplaced Pages as our world converge. SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 11:29, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
Citing a factual error seems like a pretty weak reason to claim that Misplaced Pages is clownish. That said, the claim is not that women being damsels in distress is a bad thing, the claim is that it is too commonly used a trope. - Bryn(talk)(contributions)11:44, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
Oh, and if you insist on a separate article (that i will then try to have redirected anyway), I'd suggest quote marks of "oversexualization". Kinda like my fellow potato-patriots insisted on the old Polish death camps to be turned into the "Polish death camp" controversy, becuase they were fucking German camps, see (note for my watchers: a "wide and diverse group of people", them Germans, not "generally horrible" at all). --SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 11:45, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
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You need to stop using those images you uploaded en masse to commons until people have had a chance to review and delete those that are copyright violations. Some of the images are fine but too many are direct copyright violations to be unasable, and you've been told this at WT:VG. You should not be touching any file space stuff until you're giving the all clear, or otherwise you will likely find yourself blocked for copyright issues. --Masem (t) 16:55, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
When you create the copyright problems it is up to you to resolve them. If you feel that is not your responsibility, then that's even more reason to block to make others clean up the problems you made. --Masem (t) 16:58, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
Also what I expected was "wow, how awesome, how can I help you in that project". For once. My obvious mistake was even trying because I should have known you people. And what does it even mean "not be touching any file space stuff until you're giving the all clear"? SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 17:32, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
SNAAAAKE, Masem was being helpful by steering you away from a potential copyvio block. My interpretation of the "all clear" is that he's advising you to discuss on the TP where you intend to add images, and if you are uncertain if there's a copyvio, then ask someone before you upload. That's all. Talk📧17:51, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
I agree with that sentiment. Also, SNAAAAKE!!, a reason why you come off so poorly is because you come off as if you are imposing tasks on people, not asking people if they're interested in collaboration. So my suggestion to you is to reevaluate how you speak to others. I've talked to some users who don't want to be in the same conversation as you because you come off very aggressively. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Also, when people point out that your images have a lot of issues, you need to respond appropriately. Getting defensive and accusatory is not an acceptable response. - Bryn(talk)(contributions)18:58, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
People usually don't even respond on article talk pages to anything at all, and especially if it's some old game that is not huge. SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 17:56, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
Whenever you have images to upload, I don't mind helping you as an OTRS editor on Commons. Also, for future reference - if you're the photog/copyright owner and you're uploading images of people, you have to have signed releases from the people unless it's in an open public place. GRuban is my go-to for hard to find images. He's the editor who helped us with the Arthurian images, remember? Talk📧17:43, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
Image copyright is complicated. It looks like most of the latest images are freely released photos of copyrighted objects. Which is admittedly a weird thing. Basically, in general, if Bob takes a photo of something, Bob has the right to release the photo. However, if Walt Disney Studios makes a movie, Bob can't take his camera into the movie theater, take a photo or video of the movie screen, then release that photo, because it would be a derived work of the copyrighted movie frame, which Walt Disney Studios has not released. Then there are exceptions to this exception (de minimis, freedom of panorama, etc.), but in general you do need to see whether the thing you are making the picture of is copyrighted. Don't panic too much about being bitten, no one is born knowing this stuff, we all have to learn it the hard way, by having someone slap our wrists with the virtual ruler. Just don't make this mistake again. Feel free to make mistakes again - just don't make this one. Make different ones! --GRuban (talk) 16:25, 17 June 2019 (UTC)
If you have images you would like to upload to commons, have questions about, you can ask me. I'm not a Commons admin (which is probably why I can afford to make this offer unlike the admins above!), but I am a License reviewer, which means I've learned a few things. Put a link on either my EN or Commons talk page, and I'll look into it, usually within a couple of days. --GRuban (talk) 16:33, 17 June 2019 (UTC)
Hello, Administrators' noticeboard. You have new messages at Atsme's talk page. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.
I noticed your recent edit to Maleagant does not have an edit summary. Please be sure to provide a summary of every edit you make, even if you write only the briefest of summaries. The summaries are very helpful to people browsing an article's history.
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Devil May Cry 5
I've been expanding the article Devil May Cry 5 and I've been looking at Wikicommons in regards of possible free images. I noticed you actually made some images. It would be awesome if one could be used in the article but could you explain me the context of them? It might make one good enough to add it to the Misplaced Pages article. Cheers.Tintor2 (talk) 00:03, 30 June 2019 (UTC)
Gaming articles
I have asked you to focus on Arthurian legends. If you don't stay away from the gaming articles, you are going to be t-banned from them. It's time for you to take a break and learn how to present a succinct argument, and then drop the stick. Acknowledge that you understand what I'm saying, please sir? I'm trying my best here, but I need you to try, too. Talk📧15:45, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
Your question 'Are lies allowed?' is much harder to answer than it might appear. But as you say you need an answer: Essentially no. But it is something that is impossible for admins to consistently enforce. Very often what appears to be a lie is just a mistake. Or a result of other people placeing different weightings on the reliability of different sources. Or dozens of other reasons. Sorry I don't have time to give you a better answer, I have to go now as have some urgent real life issues to sort out. Atsme is in many ways wiser than me - I hope you get the chance to speak to her by email or whatever she reccomends, as she can help you understnad these things. I'll say a prayer for you and your friend.
You're welcome. Just on that new issue you raised - it's very common for folk to post with avatars of different genders at some point in their lifes. Some just want a little taste of what it's like on the other side. Another reason is sometimes it reflects a need to have / express / imitate the energy of the opposite gender (or a specific person). Yet another reason is sometimes everyone profound needs a mask. There's all sorts of reasons, and as said it's very common, though most would only do it for a short time in their lifes.
Just came back to say sorry about rushing away. Despite my RL issues, I would stay and talk to you more if wasn't for Atsme having arrived. Its probably for the best as I have a different style, & I might get in her way if I stay around. Bye for now. FeydHuxtable (talk) 13:49, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
I hate the usage because it's being usually in the style of "infamous Niemti" (an actual quote) while she has nothing to do with any of that - I really should haven't done it. But thanks again. SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 14:02, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
True - but it doesn't look to me like it will do her any actual harm. Folk will realise Misplaced Pages Niemti isnt the same as the one on other platforms - and most won't make the connection anyway.
I see you posted about the apparent baiting. The user has apologised to you now. He didn't mean to cause you any grief- he's been working maybe too hard trying to provide leadership on a huge issues that's been effecting the whole Wikimedia movement these past few weeks. So he's made a few mistakes like anyone else would. Even Bryn told him it was a 'dick move' btw - so I hope you can see even your opponents here care about you.
I'm not sure what's going to happen with the ban discussion. As said before, if it does end in them banning you, please know that your work here has been still been appreciated - there's a barnstar below to prove it. I'm sure you know there's lots of other sites where you can add content about vidieo games and the like. Two newish sites quite similar to Misplaced Pages are Golden & Everipedia - which might suit you better once you get used to them. There's probably others even better suited out there somewhere.
You are now banned from the English Misplaced Pages
Per the clear consensus here, you are indefinitely banned from the English Misplaced Pages. If you wish to appeal this sanction you may, either by posting an unblock request here to be transcribed to WP:AN or by email to the arbitration committee. Any appeal should address all the reasons for the ban while remaining concise. You retain the ability to edit your talk page for the sole purpose of filing such an appeal. GoldenRing (talk) 11:55, 4 July 2019 (UTC)
In that case I'd like to see "all the reasons for the ban" listed, please. Might be done via email if you want. SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 12:26, 4 July 2019 (UTC)
Asking this here is fine. I will not list out the reasons for the ban, for three distinct reasons: Firstly, it is not me that you need to convince that you have understood what was wrong and have changed it; you need to convince the community that has just delivered a consensus to apply a CBAN. Parts of that community will inevitably have different ideas to me about the reasons for the ban. Secondly, if you need me to list out the reasons for the ban, that is a fair indication that you are not ready to appeal. Thirdly, I am not very familiar with your contributions and what the reason for the ban might be; I assessed the consensus at AN, not the actions that led to it. I am therefore the wrong person to even try to opine on this. GoldenRing (talk) 14:04, 4 July 2019 (UTC)
A lot of this was just false, on which I already commented quite in depth (while disproving), so I need a list of "all the reasons for the ban" that are valid and/or were decided to be true and not just a list of someone's "any complaints" - to be "remaining concise". SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 10:04, 12 October 2019 (UTC)
Any proper verdict/judgement includes a statement what exactly was proven and what was disproven/rejected (guilty or not) among the accusations/charges. This was true even for official witch hunts and show trials. If it was not in this case, then I'm going to appeal it just the reason that "all the reasons" were unspecified, and was not informed even when I inquired, and as such non-existing - there was no reason. SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 10:27, 12 October 2019 (UTC)
that's more than enough. Talk page access revoked. Your only remaining avenue of appeal is to email arbcom. I'd advise you to take a very different approach when doing so. Beeblebrox (talk) 19:51, 12 October 2019 (UTC)
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Hello there! Among the new characters in the game, four characters have a very significant influence on the plot. we conducted surveys on many resources and they won. They are: Kotal Kahn, Fujin, Erron Black and Kronika. Please create separate articles about them, as these characters are really very significant. PS I apologize for mistakes in the text, I am from Russia and use a translator. Denis Ilyushin (talk) 12:08, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
This object isn't covered in reliable independent secondary sources as described by the WP:GNG. A search only shows passing mentions which aren't enough for significant coverage and Notability.
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Mileena has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Kung Fu Man (talk) 01:07, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
Ayane (Dead or Alive) has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Kung Fu Man (talk) 01:10, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
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Support all of the above suggestions, but with a slight rewording of the ban. I think we really made a mistake in lifting this ban in the first place. Even though he has done some excellent work on articles, he has still engaged in misconduct such as incivility and personal attacks, article ownership, not using edit summaries, and disruption of the "good articles" process. While I tried to give him a fair chance despite losing my head over it, his passive harassment of me has crossed the line as well. We cannot allow any abusive behaviors to disrupt our collaborative project. He has unfortunately failed the community for the last time and has exhausted the community's patience. Enough is enough. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 12:10, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
Weak oppose #1 and #3 for now, neutral on #2. I agree that Niemti's interactions can be problematic, but I think he deserves a chance to see the results of the RfC and reconsider some of that behavior before a ban. -- Khazar2 (talk) 12:19, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
Support - As I said in the RFC, he is either unwilling or unable to change, and his behavior is unacceptable, so I see no other choice. Sergecross73msg me12:56, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
A very difficult decision indeed. On the one hand, I have seen Niemti behave in a superfluously aggressive manner towards those who disagree with his perspectives, and the passive harassment of Sjones23 is out of bounds. Civility is not negotiable — it is a cornerstone of this project. In an ideal scenario, a disagreement between two or more editors will lead to a compromise that works for the betterment of the encyclopedia as a whole. Equally important is editor retention, being able to maintain a collegial atmosphere within our community. If Misplaced Pages fosters a toxic environment, it will drive away many valuable contributors. Yet, Niemti's content contributions are generally of immense value. His interests are broad (and admittedly very similar to my own), and wherever he gets the chance to work on an article by himself, good things tend to come from it. I was the most vocal supporter of unbanning him last year, and I'm still not thoroughly convinced that he ought to be banned once more. Nevertheless, he needs to change his attitude. If that cannot happen, then he will have forfeited his final chance and be forced to depart. Kurtis13:14, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
Neutral on the idea of sitebanning him; closer, please don't count me when you're deciding to close as ban or don't-ban. However, I'm opposed to the mechanics of this proposal. (1) It's not good to community-ban someone indefinitely from appealing a community ban to the community. Arbcom is already too powerful, and giving them the right to officiate in this specific situation when the community will be able to decide to unban or keep-banned is a bad idea, both because they don't need extra things, and because it's wrong to say that the ban may not be appealed to the community. (2) If we enact your proposal, we'll make it harder for him to appeal his siteban than his topic bans. Why? (3) You're using both "banned" and "prohibited" when you appear to mean the same thing; please change one to the other, or please explain why "banned" and "prohibited" aren't the same. (4) Finally, a basic question — why topic-ban someone and siteban him too? Do one or the other, or do neither, but not both. Nyttend (talk) 15:21, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
Support on #1, strongly on #2. The third one would be moot if the first one passes, but would be second choice. Clearly he doesn't care that he's disruptive to others and shows zero desire to change. Wizardman15:26, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
Undecided on all three points, for the same reason -- there are evident behaviour issues, but the actual content work is definitely non-negligible and if that work could be continued, the encyclopedia ultimately wins. However that doesn't excuse the actions outside of content work and there is also a real possibility or driving off other good editors. I would, without hesitation, Support a fourth, intermediary option of a mutual interaction ban with User:Sjones23 but that doesn't resolve the rest... If anything, option #2 seems reasonable and potentially helpful but I worry that if he cannot improve an article all the way through to GA, including the nomination process, he might not be motivated to work on the articles themselves... I will keep reading the points and remain open to changing my mind. Note I am in no way defending his attitude or behaviour and I believe it is a very important problem; however he's done good article work and if we could find a solution that would still allow the encyclopedia to be improved by his work, that'd be ideal. :) ·Salvidrim!· ✉15:42, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
1a. Support site ban per prior AN discussion.
1b. Oppose appeal to ArbCom provision -- appeal should be to community in six months
Before this gets enacted, I'd like a moment to gather a few diffs and compose a comment please. — Ched : ? 17:02, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
I find myself a bit puzzled by the idea that the community would ban him and he could only appeal to arbcom. I'd like some clarification on the logic behind that choice. I would support the idea that WP:BASC act as a gatekeeper, i.e. he must convince them to open the discussion, but as written I don't really get it. However, I believe we made a mistake in lifting this ban in the first place. If we reward someone for socking we can hardly be surprised when what they learn from that is that the rules do not apply to them and they can act however they like without consequence. So, support any and all of the above but would like the wording on the ban idea tweaked slightly. Beeblebrox (talk) 17:24, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
I see a lot of people are discussing the appeal to arbcom part. So, I've been more passive with this whole thing lately, but I don't think that was something people especially felt strongly about. I think the main idea was the "6 month ban with opportunity to be appealed", I don't believe there was much emphasis meant to be placed on who he appeals to. I could be mistaken though. Sergecross73msg me17:40, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
I endorse this outcome. The idea of appeal to BASC is a form of independent review, and it is a way of forestalling the endless debates between supporters and others that we have seen in the past. Banned users seem not to have a big problem using this process, there are not enough of them to produce any challenge of scale. Guy (Help!) 17:48, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
Comments: So, we seem to have taken a 48 hour block, 7 months later pounded a two week (escalated) block on top of that, kept a running list of grievances (which usually get deleted as attack pages in user space) by holding open a Five month long RfC/U (for those unfamiliar with that particular process, it usually doesn't go much beyond ONE month), had a total of Three comments from the accused on his own talk since the block (which basically amount to "meh - I'm not mad, I can use the break anyway".), and a closing of an RfC/U which has been allowed to run longer than most Arbcom cases with a "BAN HIM" proposal. On top of that, somehow we can make this an WP:AE ban? (I must have missed that little memo.) I'd imagine this could even be forced through process before Niemti gets back if we try real hard. I mean after all, his first unclosed ban discussion lasted a total of what? 12 hours? 8 or 9 people commenting - but don't let facts distract anyone from removing an editor that managed to get what? 40 articles to GA?, at least one FA (System Shock 2) - in less than a year? With +85% of his over 40k edits to article space? So let's have a recap shall we? Even though Sjones23, I'm sorry .. "Lord" Sjones23 .. promised multiple times to avoid this editor (personally I consider them to be very unfulfilled promises) - they continue to be a driving force for this ban. (a few interesting reads from just Aug. of last year: link, apology and question, another "question", and this one is nothing short of a real gem - closing the very thread where Nimeti raised the harassment issues - that's a keeper if I ever saw one). Now, going back to the RfC/U for a moment: What do we have as egregious incivility? And I'll just use the direct quotes from the initial links since that seems to be the core of our editor's problems: "I guess you hate chapters in most books", "...now go and renominate", "I told you to stop fucking up my articles, didn't I?" (I'll fully admit that there's some ownership issues with a comment like that), "You've got to be kidding me,", "Now, if you have something to CONTRIBUTE to the article..." and of course: SHOUTING, (zOMG HE USED THE CAPS LOCK KEY). That is what we're banning people for now?
Now I haven't had the time or the desire to review any of allllll those other things this gawd-awful editor has done which required an entire second page of "additional evidence that Lord Sjones23 felt compelled to create, but perhaps others will. The fact is this: Niemti was never given a second chance. He was hounded, baited, and trolled to the point of exhaustion. I don't question that he could improve in the WP:OWNership areas, and perhaps he does need to brush up on WP:BITE (although Lord Sjones23 is hardly a newcomer). While WP:IBAN is about the only thing I could conceivably consider here, typically that doesn't always work as well in practice as it does in print. Either way, this appears to be another one of those forgone conclusions in which we banish an editor. Do people really, honestly, wonder why we have an editor retention problem on this project? Oh well - thanks for holding off on the close so I could formulate my comments. You folks enjoy yourselves. — Ched : ? 18:07, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
Comment I'm not opining on any of the proposals. I just wanted to help close a 4-month old RFC/U that wasn't going anywhere. I'll take the sole blame for the list of possible sanctions being so inartfully drafted as to resist even Sandstein's brave effort to clean up the language. The reason I wrote "appeal to ArbCom" was simply to preclude an individual admin from lifting the ban if enacted, which appears to be what happened last time around. The suggestion above that WP:BASC act as a gatekeeper before the community considers an un-ban sounds like a better option. I was unfamiliar with that committee. I am happy to accept that suggestion as a friendly amendment. Fladrif (talk) 18:26, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
First of all, I'm so very sorry about what is going on the project here. At the time when Niemti was unbanned, I provided very inconclusive evidence on my part, and I tried to desperately solve the problem in August, but ended up getting nowhere fast to be honest and I've obviously moved on from the "wikihounding" issue and those things in August are water under the bridge and I wish to put these issues by Ched to rest. I know better to wikihound, bait or troll anyone in the first place. I have been trying to ignore him due to his attitude. And let it be known that being a producer of good content is never an excuse for incivil behavior and I tried to desperately avoid him but I was concerned about his behavior. Niemti has some serious communication errors here, but I made a mistake in promising to avoid the editor (that promise was not permanent), and I am aware about what problems he has here. Let me decide whether I should avoid Niemti or not. Unfortunately, Niemti was topic banned from a biographical article for this exact same behavior. The additional evidence subpage was created at the suggestion of Izno and we have had numerous discussions on his behavior at WT:VG. We need more uninvolved editors to take a look at the situation. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 18:26, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
I will comment on one thing, and one thing only. I most definitely Support an interaction ban, with teeth in it, between User:Niemti and User:Sjones23. The comment above says to me that Sjones23 is either clueless or in complete denial about his own continual and ongoing WP:Wikihounding, including a lovely display of gravedancing on the occasion of the current block being imposed. Ched's assessment of that is right on the number. Fladrif (talk) 18:37, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
Yes, Fladrif. I can understand that Ched is concerned here and I am so sorry about this once again. If I did anything wrong or clueless or did something to upset you, then I can say one thing: I am sorry. I know that I was trying to avoid Niemti but in the end, I let my judgment get the best of me since I do know better than to wikihound or harass this user. I think a possible interaction ban would simply help out very much for me and increase my moral support. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 18:41, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
Oppose I have had zero interaction with Niemti. (by coincidence I just picked up and article for GA review and noticed that it was written by them (looks like an immense amount of work on a topic that nobody else likely would have done, and could use a bit more work before GA) but they have been blocked and I've had no discussions.) I see nothing in the diffs or evidence at the RFC/U supporting such an extreme measure, and I am becoming more and more distressed by vague lynchings at ani and an, and so am opposing this from a fair and due process standpoint. North8000 (talk) 18:31, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
As "personal attacks" go, that was exceptionally mild. I'm not saying reverting you was right or that there was anything wrong with your edit, but I really don't see a personal attack here.Jeppiz (talk) 14:33, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
When you're telling someone else that he's confused (in a hostile manner) and that he's only trying to defend a wrong, you're breaking the bounds of civility. Not so bad that it's by itself sanctionable, but it's still not appropriate. Nyttend (talk) 15:15, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
Even hostile might be a bit much. I have no idea who's right or wrong with the content, but accusing someone of being misguided or misquoting them is hardly a personal attack... It could be wrong, but not an attack. Sergecross73msg me15:17, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
Note: This is a contentious topic and subject to general sanctions. - Butterscotch Beluga (talk) 21:15, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
Done Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 16:25, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
Fixed. Those things are sensitive, you left off a closing bracket in one of the links that broke it. Beeblebrox (talk) 17:59, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
Category:BloodRayne games, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. ZXCVBNM (TALK) 15:58, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
There is currently a discussion at 
Hello. Thank you for 
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Template:Games based on Arthurian legends has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. soetermans. 13:45, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
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