Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 12:27, 14 May 2013

Social identity theory

Hi Andrew, I'm Yla, I'm also a social psychologist. Thanks for taking the time to explain why you reverted my edits to Social identity theory. One of the largest problems Misplaced Pages faces is attracting new editors. Having your first changes to Misplaced Pages reverted, as you did to mine, can be very discouraging. It's important that you go beyond simply explaining your reasoning though. Before commenting on my page it would have been good to check something about me. I list that I am new user on my userpage, if you look at my history you'll see that this was my first edit to Misplaced Pages. I understand if you don't have the time for that. But it's still critical to be friendly, to introduce yourself, and to be supportive to everyone in order to make Misplaced Pages a community that is welcoming.

Why don't we work together to improve Social Identity Theory beyond a C quality score? There are a number of changes that need to be made. Here are the first few changes that I plan on working on:

-The intro two paragraphs need to be substantially rewritten so that they are accessible to a general audience. Look at the first two sentences. If you knew nothing about psychology it would be very difficult to understand. What is a self-concept? what is relevant? what is intergroup? It is not enough to link to other Misplaced Pages pages, you need to explain these in general terms (see Object permanence for a good example of an intro to a psychology article quality rating Good). This is how I was trying to change the article. The basic idea of social identity theory is that "Social identity theory first proposed that people come to understand and define themselves, in part, as members of social groups." If you dislike that I said they were the first to propose it when you think it's possible others discussed this concept before they did okay. Let's change the language to not say they are the first, but still to describe the theory in more accessible general way. Here is a reference describing social identity theory in a similar way to the way I did (it won't let me link to site but google search for Reicher, Spears, Haslam (2010) The social identity approach in social psychology. Sage Identities Handbook).

- Next, the article needs to begin by discussing the original work that brought about social identity theory-- the minimum group paradigm. This will help people understand where the theory came from and what it means by giving a concrete example. After they understand it then we can get into the specifics of the theory, what now appears first (aspects of the theory). See Stereotype threat which is a good example of this and good quality rating. It first explains stereotype threat by explaining the original experiments. Once the reader understands the concepts, he or she is ready to understand the specifics and all the work that's come later.

I could use your help because I'm not familiar with some of the specifics of Misplaced Pages writing (e.g. like what needs citations and what doesn't).

Yla Tausczik (talk) 14:52, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Hi ‎Yla. Welcome to Misplaced Pages. I am sorry if you found me to be a bit curt. That certainly was not my intention. I am of course keen to see improvements made to the SIT page and look forward to your contributions and collaborating with you. Along those lines, I had the following thoughts after looking at your edits and your above message:

• Audience: In Misplaced Pages it is sometimes reasonable to assume a certain degree of background knowledge. Some of the physics and chemistry pages are good examples of articles where quite a bit of knowledge is assumed. In my mind the likely audience for the SIT page is not complete lay people. I think instead that most of the audience comprises of undergraduate psychology students (check out how the page view statistics are impacted by the Semesters) and that is who we should keep in mind when editing. Also remember that the Simple English Misplaced Pages exists. This can be used to create a version of the page that is accessible to a wider audience. That being said, I do believe that there is scope to improve the language in the article. Please do not think that I wish the article to stay exactly in its current form
• SIT vs. SCT: I had a look at Reicher et al (2010) and I think I know where the confusion is coming from. When they say that SCT “it broadens the remit of social identity research from intergroup relations to group behaviour (and, potentially at least, social behaviour) in general” this does not refer to a broadening of the types of groups that are under analysis (your “concrete groups” vs. “broad abstract groups”). It instead refers to a broadening of the types of group phenomena that are under analysis. There are a couple of other sources that I can recommend that provide good explanations of the SIT/SCT distinction.
• Structure: Although I am not particularly invested in the current structure, I at this stage still think that the description of the theory should come prior to a description of its origins. One reason for this is that SIT is so often described in the context of the minimal group experiments that the details of the theory (in particular the social-structural aspects) get buried. Spears et al. (2001) discuss how failing to attend to these details of SIT has led to a schism between System justification theory and SIT. I feel like you also (quite understandably) fell into this trap when describing in-group favouritism as a “finding” of SIT.

Anyway, I hope this helps and would be interested in your thoughts. It also might be worth bearing in mind that the C class rating was given in May 2011 and the SIT page looked quite different back then . I suspect it would fare better in its current from. Cheers Andrew (talk) 05:45, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

References

1. Turner, J. C.; Reynolds, K. H. (2001). Brown, S. L.; Gaertner (eds.). "The Social Identity Perspective in Intergroup Relations: Theories, Themes, and Controversies". Blackwell Handbook of Social Psychology. 3 (1).
2. Haslam, A. S. (2001). Psychology in Organizations. London, SAGE Publications.
3. Spears, R., Jetten, J., & Doosje, B. (2001). The (Il)legitimacy of ingroup bias: From social reality to social resistance. In The psychology of legitimacy. Eds. J. T. Jost & B. Major. Cambridge University Press

Ways to improve Common ingroup identity

Hi, I'm Kerfuffler. U3964057, thanks for creating Common ingroup identity!

I've just tagged the page, using our page curation tools, as having some issues to fix. All of the sources share an author. Surely someone else has done research on this if it's notable?

The tags can be removed by you or another editor once the issues they mention are addressed. If you have questions, you can leave a comment on my talk page. Or, for more editing help, talk to the volunteers at the Teahouse.

Hi ‎Kerfuffler. Thanks for your message. I am happy with the tag you added and actually it isn’t content that I added to Misplaced Pages. It is instead content that I felt did not quite fit in the ingroup favoritism page and so I moved it here. If I have time I will make improvements but hopefully others will come along and do the same.

With regard to your concerns about notability, it might reassure you if you have a look at the citation records of the current references. Cheers and let me know if you have any other questions Andrew (talk) 05:53, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Update at Talk:Self-categorization theory/GA1

• Talk:Self-categorization theory/GA1

I'd probably just want to close this for now to give you more time to improve it and address issues on your own timeframe. Just checking with you first to let you know re progression at the subpage. Cheers, — Cirt (talk) 22:42, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Hi Cirt. No worries. I will respond over at that talk page. Cheers Andrew (talk) 01:25, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for November 12

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Misplaced Pages appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Self-categorization theory, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Power (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot (talk) 12:04, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

My bad. Thanks Mr DPL Bot. Andrew (talk) 12:12, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

Asch Conformity Experiments Edits November 19, 2012

H Andrew,

My name is YVasquez and I am part of the APS[REDACTED] initiative. I revised the Asch Conformity Experiments article as part of a course requirement for my Ph.D. program. I was wondering if you could explain a bit more what you meant by the following "The Asch conformity experiments demonstrated that uncertainty can arise as an outcome of social reality testing. In relation, this inconsistency has been used to support the position that the theoretical distinction between social reality testing and physical reality testing, as well as the distinction between informational influence and normative influence, are untenable." I googled these sentences and they appeared verbatim over the web. Can you tell me what this means (in your own words)? Thank you so much for helping with my recent edits! I greatly appreciate your input! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yvasquez (talk • contribs) 07:22, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Hi YVasques. I will reply over on the Asch conformity experiments talk page. Cheers Andrew (talk) 00:49, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for your work undoing vandalism and suspicious edits on various psychology articles. There are very few people doing this, and it's much appreciated. MartinPoulter (talk) 22:45, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

Hi Martin. Thanks very much for the positive feedback. I am always happy to hear someone’s thoughts on my Misplaced Pages antics. And thank you for your own on going efforts. See you over at the SIT page. Cheers Andrew (talk) 11:04, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

Talk:Social identity theory/GA1

Please note that this review has been now opened for a week and if may be closed soon due to no action. As I have not notified you before, I'll give you a second extra week to become involved. Cheers, --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:44, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

Hi Piotrus. Thanks for the heads up. I will see you over at the SIT page. Cheers Andrew (talk) 11:46, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

Left a number of comments. Excellent work, just a few minor details to iron out left! --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 06:34, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

Invitation

May I invite you to join the ranks of Misplaced Pages:SOCIO#Participants? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:21, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Piotrus. I have added the relevant talk page to my watch list (I don't really want the newsletter). I notice that you are putting a huge amount of work in over there. I hope you feel appreciated. Cheers Andrew (talk) 10:13, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

The newsletter is issued every two years or so, so don't worry about too much spam on that front :) --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:10, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

But that would mean that within 200 years I would have up to 100 post on my talk page! No thank you sir. Andrew (talk) 05:08, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Edit warring at Bodu Bala Sena

I notice you have blanked a long-standing, sourced, consensus version of this article three times now,, , and , replacing it with the Muslim Tamil-in-exile version, without any explanation and without engaging on the talk page. Please note that user:SinhaYugaya, who has been blocked several times for edit warring on Sri Lanka topics, also removed the consensus version without explanation . The first blanking of this article was done here by another user who edits exclusively in sri Lanka and Tamil topics, user:Obi2canibe who removed it completely without explanation and replaced it with a Muslim version. The neutrality of this version was challenged on the talk page herehere and here.

Please get consensus for your edits on the talk page before removing sourced and unchallenged material and restoring this problematic and challenged version yet again. 203.81.67.127 (talk) 05:59, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Hi Anon. I am happy to discuss this with you over at the relevant talk page. See you there. Cheers Andrew (talk) 07:57, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

I appreciate someone finally giving me a civil answer, and I have answered you on the talk page. However you may want to review WP:3RR and think about reverting the last restoration of the problematic version, especially since you seem not to agree with it. 203.81.67.127 (talk) 11:29, 14 May 2013 (UTC)http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:U3964057&action=edit&section=10#

Since you don't seem to have a dog in this fight (and I don't either) here is a little more of my thinking on the types of edits that have been happening that are problematic. If you look at the neutrality policy, WP:UNDUE, you will see that you cannot take a minority point of view and use it out of proportion to the point of view in reliable sources. What I see happening here is a cherry-picking of sources that are critical of the organization and using them as the "voice" of the encyclopedia. If you look closely at some of the articles, they do not meet the criteria for neutrality as far as editorial oversight, etc., and many are Sri Lanka sources from Tamil exiles who are publishing from outside the country. Now, this type of non-neutral source can be used, it just can't be used as the "voice of Misplaced Pages". It needs to be in its own section, explaining the point of view and who holds it, and with paraphrasing, not direct quotations. For a comparison, look at the article for Hamas, which the U.S. government has officially declared a terrorist organization.

I also suspect there are also multiple copyvio problems with this added material.

These guys need to go back and rework their challenged material so that it can be added properly to the material that has already been vetted. Instead they are acting combative, and will end up getting blocked, and their possible contributions will be lost.

The other problem I see with the material added is that it is synthesis WP:SYN and original research. For example, there is an article about a traffic ticket one of the organizers supposedly got, that is used "prove" the organization is engaging in hate speech. An article about opposition to head scarves for women is used to "prove" the organization is "extremist". Where do you even start with this? You can refer people to the policies, but if they don't understand them or want to follow them, what can you do? I certainly don't have time to explain things over and over.203.81.67.127 (talk) 12:27, 14 May 2013 (UTC)