Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 18:49, 18 April 2014

Barnstar for you

		The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar
		I, Beagel, give this barnstar to you for your attempt to make the Deepwater Horizon oil spill and BP related articles more encyclopaedic. Many good editors have tried this but have give up for obvious reasons. I hope you have more luck and courage to keep Misplaced Pages being an encyclopaedia. Beagel (talk) 05:47, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

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Hear hear. Do take care though not to use offensive language, be uncivil in any way, or edit war as there are those here who would not miss the opportunity to get you banned or blocked. Martin Hogbin (talk) 10:31, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

Your posts

Hi Geogene. I just wanted to suggest that you tone down your rhetoric a bit. I was observing your posts on Talk:BP, and also your conversation with another editor above about a third party. You come across as an aggressive, partisan editor, with a strong POV and disdain for other editors, and also being somewhat on the insulting and abrasive side. Having a conversation about an unnamed editor as you do above, while probably not in breach of any policy, has a polarizing effect. I'm offering this advice in a friendly way. Feel free to delete if you disagree or feel it is out of line. Figureofnine (talk • contribs) 14:06, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

Hello, Figureofnine. You are not in any way out of line. You earned my respect the other day, but I am encouraging comments on my behavior from any party here, especially anyone I seem to be having trouble with. I may not agree but can only benefit from such feedback, positive or negative, because I have a lot more learning to do about protocols here. And I hope to work well with all of you, though we do seem to be off to a bad start. I believe some of this comes down to matters of perception. All editors have POV, but we all view POV through blinders that make our own invisible while exaggerating those of others with different views. My views seem to be a little different from the rest, and that's the ultimate source (from both directions) of tension. Being direct in addressing problems with an article can sometimes seem aggressive even if that is not my intent, although I have probably crossed that line any number of times in fact. Trying to make an article more neutral can be misinterpreted as partisanship, because it's hard to objectively define what is "neutral" with POV blinders on. On the other side, that someone accused me of being part of a conspiracy to bias a Federal court case is more than a little insulting and abrasive, and frankly it seems crazy. Doing it to other people habitually merits outside attention. Even if discussing how to handle those allegations is "polarizing", I don't know how that can be helped. I may be misinterpreting you, but the gist of that seems to be that I must tolerate abuse if I want other editors to be AGF towards me. I can't accept that. But I will be toning down the rhetoric. I hope that we can all work together to write better articles. Geogene (talk) 18:06, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

That's a constructive answer, thank you. I was concerned by your most recent post in Talk:BP. The atmosphere there has soured to the point that I personally steer clear of it, and it has tended to sour me on Misplaced Pages generally. Please don't contribute to that. Using the "undo" tool also generates hard feelings. It is better to come to a compromise instead of just rolling back an edit you don't agree with. Your conversation on this page regarding the transgressions of an unnamed editor concerned me even more, whatever the provocation. What you seem to be doing is working with another editor to intimidate a third party, justifiably or not. That's all. I appreciate your cooperative attitude in addressing this. Figureofnine (talk • contribs) 18:21, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

Now that you point that out I see what you mean, though I didn't intend it that way. I did hope the user we're disputing with would see things more from my viewpoint this way. The "undo" tool is just a tool, my additions get "undone" from time to time, usually for a good reason. But you're right, the fact that it pings makes it seem a little confrontational. Be advised I left you a reply in the Talk:BP thread as well that is more defensive. I think we have a opposing POV but you're a good editor, and I don't want to run you off. I don't want to run anybody off, but in one instance I feel like I was put in a situation that should get outside attention. We'll see if I can avoid being run off myself because the whole environment is souring on me too. I prefer less controversial subjects, and anything more controversial than this I avoid. Geogene (talk) 19:28, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

Figureofnine, I can't speak for Geogene, and I've never participated at Talk:BP, but I assure you that I personally have absolutely no desire to intimidate anyone or to create a polarizing environment. In fact, my goal in the above conversation is to create a less intimidating, less polarizing environment in which editors having different POVs can resolve their disagreements civilly and productively. --Dr. Fleischman (talk) 21:46, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

Arbcom?

Geogene, you once mentioned the possibility of asking Arbcom to arbitrate on the BP and related articles. My respose was that Arbcom will not arbitrate on content issues but, on reflection, I think that the anti-business, anti-oil pressure on WP is so important to its future and credibility that they may take on the case. There are also some editor behaviour issues such a page ownership and unsubstantiated claims of COI editing that they may look at too. What do you think? Martin Hogbin (talk) 09:27, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

What would we be asking them for as far as content is concerned? I think that to address those issues would be good for Misplaced Pages, but I'm not so sure that the community realizes it. On the other issues, I am very interested in asking that the unsubstantiated COI claims be addressed, as I've found them to be bothersome, persistent, and known by everyone to be against the rules. In fact I believe that the community has tolerated them this long because they are generally associated with BP articles. Geogene (talk) 16:42, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

Regarding content, we would be would be asking that the article should be written in an encyclopedic style rather than be a vehicle to attack a company which some see as bad.

I thing Arbcom may well take action about the false COI claims, which have also been made against me and others. Martin Hogbin (talk) 18:49, 18 April 2014 (UTC)