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Revision as of 20:55, 23 September 2004

I doubt Germany and the EU formally allow Montenegro to use Euro as an official curency

• currency: euro - even though Montenegro is not part of the Eurozone, it uses the euro after Germany and the EU allowed it to use the German mark years ago. Now, since the German mark was superceded by the euro, the euro is the official currency of Montenegro.

What is "calques"? -- Zoe

"calque" is a loan translation, an expression introduced into one language by translating it from another language. (from Wordnet dictionary) --Shallot 14:20, 28 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Some Montenegrins have in recent years shown a desire to separate Montenegro from the federation with jist of the separatist movement being among the Slavic Muslim and Albanian minorities who make up some 20% of the population -- what does this sentence mean? -- Zoe

I don't know, but it seems to make some kind of sense if you assume "jist" is a typo for "most"... -- Paul A

In recent years, some Montenegrins have shown a desire to separate from the Yugoslavian/Balkan/Serbian(?) Federation. The separatist movement consists mainly of Slavic Muslim and Albanian minorities, which consist of 20% of the Montenegrin population. --More sense?

No, it makes no sense at all. I thought the seperatist movement was started by the Montenegrin Parliament and Montenegrin Government, right?

Actually you are wrong. The separatist movement started in 1990 with the Liberal Party of MOntenegro (LSCG) which has constitently had about 5-10% of support among the population (among both Orthodox, Muslims and Catholics). In 1992 when the question of Montenegro's future was at stake (referendum on federation with Serbia) the LSCG called on Montenegrins to boycott. Aside from their voters (5-10%) the bulk of the Slavic Muslim and Albanian population boycotted as can be seen from the results on this page . The turnout was 66% of which 95% voted for the union (some 62% with 70% Orthodox Slavs). Each county basically matches with its ethno-religious make-up. Bar with 60% Orthodox Slavs had a 48% turnout, Ulcinj with 73% of Albanians had a 17,54% turnout, Plav with an 80% Slavic Muslim and Albanian population had a 27,63% turnout and finally Rozaje with 87% Slavic Muslims and 4% Albanians had a 10,85%. All of the other counties (with clear ORthodox Slavic majorities) all had majority turnouts. I personally find this exercise redundant, trying to 'prove' what is obvious to anyone who has ever set foot in Montenegro. But I guess that from now on I will not have to discuss the subject. Furthermore if you are interested I can get you poll results which basically point out what I am talking about. Just quoting one from 2001 (VREME) that I have, 5% of declared Serbs support an independent Montenegro, 83% of those who said they were Croats, 89% of those who said they were Slavic Muslims and 87% of Albanians. -- Igor 22:00, Sep 23 2004

And as far as I recall, neither the Montenegrin president nor prime minister are Muslim nor Albanian.

No but the controversial speaker of the parliament Rifat Rastoder is. -- Igor

Are you trying to say that Gjukanovic is in some way an Bosniak/Albanian agent, representing Bosniak/Albanian interests? Let me put in more straightforwardly, did Bosniaks and Albanians bring Djukanovic & Co. to power? No Montenegrin voted him in? Well, I thought Albanians had their own political parties, and so do the Bosniaks.

That is the interesting part, the Slavic Muslims have their own parties (SDA etc.) however none of them have been in parliament since 1992 and then maybe one or two seats? The Slavic Muslims adore and vote (can be proven with the help of any opinion poll) Milo Djukanovic, his DPS party and especially his junior partner SDPCG party (which has about 40% of Slavic Muslims in its ranks which you can see for yourself as soon as they fix their rotten page http://www.sdp.cg.yu if you go to 'Organizacija'). -- Igor

How long will iditos like yourself continue to blame just about everything on Bosniaks and Albanians? When will you wake up and understand that now even your formal brothers Montenegrins can stand you and your Serb superiority policies any longer.

I should make note that Igor's edits spin the article towards the Serbian point of view, which is in conflict with the Montenegro government and hence the majority of voting population, contrary to what it may imply. The article needs to be made more neutral. --Shallot 14:20, 28 Sep 2003 (UTC)

I do not partake in such practices, there has been no reversal of power in Montenegro since 1945, the very party that held the media, government and police prior to any given election won it. There have been widespread reports of vote fraud and besides, the government won some 47% at the last elections, hardly an indisputable majority.

Regards, --Igor 3:22, 29 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Aww, you seem to be losing your touch, this is one of the retorts that makes the least sense. --Shallot 16:44, 29 Sep 2003 (UTC)

--- Parts of this page are extremely, um misleading. The idea of Montenegrin 'ethnicity' is totally modern, not even appearing before Serbia's (Raskian Serbia that is) independence from the Ottoman empire in the 20TH CENTURY. If your talking about free countries in history, Montenegrins for generations WERE the Serbs. Just making some sweeping comments that assume historical "Montenegrins" (which is what happens when you start off sentences w "Ethnic Montenegrins...."), well its playing w facts.

Also your comments on language are just totally off-base, lies in fact. The major dialectal isoglosses of Serbo-Croat, EACH ONE of them in fact spreads geographically through Croatia, Bosnia-Hercegovina, AND Serbia. You give the impression that some special speech form local to montenegro is also the speech of Bosnia. No, Bosnian speech varies by location, but of course accents and well 'localisms', do converge at the Bosnian/Montenegrin border, the same is true in any country for almost any small areas next to each other.

Anyway, the article as written is some "thinly veiled" sort of pro-secessionist propaganda sheet. I wish people would stop writing articles for subjects they have no special knowledge of or in cases where they have no objectivity.

tridesch

I'm not particularly inclined to bother discerning what's meant by trashing their ethnicity as modern while the page says exactly the same, and replicates the percentages exactly as on the census. Your notion of each of the dialects being in each region is patent nonsense as it's štokavian that is everywhere, not the other three (unless you mean dialects of štokavian, which would be a really slippery slope). It's also very amusing to see you characterize a page last edited by user Igor as pro-secessionist propaganda. Keep it up :> --Shallot 18:21, 17 Oct 2003 (UTC)

I apologize,it was careless and not factual what i said about the dialects - i should have written that dialects present in Bosnia Montenegro and Serbia proper of Stokavian as you mentioned stretch through the entire Serbo-Croat area, and most importantly what is meant is that its not correct to Single out some special Montenegrin Dialect, because there isnt any - only in Croatia are you going to find areas that are linguistically unique. Whether Igor is pro or anti-secessionist is immaterial, because theres no expectation that an entire article will or should be re-written by every 'last contributer' - in fact its better to work on the articles in segments. The tone of the article (an article which i didnt change anyway)is apparent - it PRESUMES something which is in itself very controversial - something historically at least (even just to the borders of 'recent past') could have been discounted altogether - Montenegrin ethnicity. Anyone who reads the article will junp over step 1 (does this ethnicity exist) directly to "the ethnic montenegrins are considering secession). Theres no backround.

During the era of Ottoman domination,Montenegrins were very proud to be the
only free serbs, and were raised being serb.  Does a montenegrin ethnicity 

exist today? - given the fact that 'ethnicity' always has an historical component, its difficult to say. If it does, id guess it couldnt have existed

before Serbs deposed the Montenegrin monarchy and replaced in its own. 
Whoever adds to this article should be careful to give due mention to the
sheerly political or lifestyle apects which can be extracted from talk of
ethnicity.  This article is lacking - its not written from a Neutral Point of
View. Its not a major problem since the article is so crude/new anyway - my
point in adding to the talk page rather than to the article proper is so that
someone w interest will take all the biases out.

user:tridesch

This article is written from a pro-Serb (i.e anti-Montenegro) point of view, comparable I would say to what an Argentine might write if asked to contribute to a section on the Falkland islands (Malvinas).

Rgds, Stef

The article is NPOV. If you have anything to add go ahead. If anyone objects it will become an issue of debate right here. -- Igor