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Somebody who reads Chinese is invited to correct this article

Somebody who reads Chinese is invited to correct this article, 'cause there are too many conjectures in it. ——Nussknacker胡桃夹子^.^tell me... 17:14, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Even we Chinese know little about this project. It's top secret. However, recently some pictures of the WZ-10 and its engine appeared on the internet. It is in size of tiger. Sinolonghai 22:34, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Romania never had Mi-24. The article is misleading. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.141.116.124 (talk) 18:13, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Apparent copying of features from other designs

It looks like a "blend" of Rooivalk and Tiger features. Makes one wonder about industrial espionage or was there co-operation between CAIC and Denel and/or Eurocopter with this design? Roger (talk) 17:47, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

The Drawing are misleading, the WZ10 doesnt look like the eurocopter Tiger at all, there is no connection between Tiger and WZ10, while there are some very limited cooperation between the Caic and Denzel on early stage of the project which was ended dur to Denzels fear of competition in african market. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.224.133.150 (talk) 20:14, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

It looks more to me like a blend of the A129 and Commanche. The cab certainly has a feel of the Mangusta yet the blended fusalage/empenage with its extended 'crease' must be an attempt at stealth. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Loates Jr (talk • contribs) 13:50, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

WZ9 is designed by 608th institute, not 602th institute.

since the 608th institute specialize in the turboshaft engine design. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.205.190.155 (talk) 18:00, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

Article Name?

For all other Chinese aircraft the manufacturer's name is written a such Chengdu J-10, Nanchang CJ-6, Harbin Z-9 etc. this article should be moved to Changhe WZ-10. Semi-Lobster (talk) 02:03, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

Designed by Kamov

It was revealed today that the WZ-10 was designed by Kamov, and not by CAIC, Wu Ximing, the 608th Institute, or any other Chinese entity. Based upon this news, the article is in need of a revamp. 99.164.12.23 (talk) 03:26, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

It was revealed today that the WZ-10 was designed by Kamov, and not by CAIC, Wu Ximing, the 608th Institute, or any other Chinese entity. Based upon this news, the article is in need of a revamp. 99.164.12.23 (talk) 03:26, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

i have revamped this article with the information. however a sockpuppet (Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Shulinjiang)is going around removing my sourced content without valid explanation in order to add his own propaganda. the chief designer of kamov has not recanted anything. the article clearly continues to make a distinction between designed by and developed by as reported by flightglobal and others. to quote the chief designer of kamov ( "Thereafter, to the country's credit, Mikheev says, the Chinese handled the rest of the developmental work. That includes the developmental prototypes and the operational aircraft that is currently in production for the Chinese military. "So I wish success to the helicopter," Mikheev says. Mikheev would not comment on the WZ-10's performance. "That is a question for the Chinese," he says. "I know what I have done." )

if there is a dispute with regards to designer, please provide sources that confirm or deny kamov's involvement here before making any changes to the article itself. please try to achieve consensus before engaging in disruptive behavior. please do not continue to vandalize this article for propaganda purposes and stop making ad hominem attacks against other editors. Pvpoodle (talk) 15:09, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

the editor conducting disruptive edits on this and other articles keeps posting several links that he claims "debunk" my links. here is the google translation of the latest link he has posted translated link original , the article clearly mentions that kamov is the original designer while china has been responsible for further development. this is the view presented in both the flightglobal and other links i have added and the stand of the article itself. i do not understand why the editor is continuing to make these disruptive edits? does he think that by providing a link in chinese that we will accept his changes without verifying with google translate or other tools first? Pvpoodle (talk) 16:41, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

A quick google on this issue shows that Kamov designed the chopper, removing this info is disruptive. Darkness Shines (talk) 16:45, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

Hello I am Jon. I just got off work and anticipated that there will be an editing war here on the page, and I was right. This edit war was started by Pvpoodle, Shulinjiang and some other unregistered users. At first, Pvpoodle wanted to push through his own personal propaganda and other users Shulinjiang I assume, pushed back. I have been reading both of their comments for some time and they are very similar personality wise but completely different politically and standing wise! To reach a general consensus on this issue, I suggest that both pro-Kamov and Pro-CAIC sources to be kept with one countering each other!

To point out the mistakes of Pvpoodle's sources. 1. His source cited that: " In 1995, Kamov developed a preliminary design in the 6t weight class under a contract with the Chinese government, says Sergey Mikheev, Kamov's chief design engineer, speaking at the Heli-Expo trade show in Las Vegas, Nevada." Since it is preliminary, this means the remaining and bulk of the WZ-10's deigns were done by the Chinese especially CAIC under Wu Xing Ming. 2. "Due to understandable reasons, this information was kept secret, he says." His source basically says that WZ-10's Preliminary design was done by Kamov under secret and now just three month after WZ-10 was officially revealed, all of a sudden Kamov's chief designer came out and "declassify" their involvement! 3. Mikheev says. "They gave us the desired weight, we discussed preliminary performance parameters, then we signed a contract and we fulfilled the contract, he says". Then later: "Mikheev would not comment on the WZ-10's performance." His sources contradict each other. If Kamov's deigner Mikheev has the audacity to say that Kamov's did WZ-10's initial design with all the preliminary performance parameters, then why he could not tell WZ-10's performance? 4. All four of his sources were written from March,7,2013 to March,15,2013. Just 8 days apart and just three month after the Chinese revealed the WZ-10, they all contain the same contents quoting form Kamov's designer Mikheev. 5. Pvpoodle deliberately made a mistake on the countering source provided by other users. The title "俄罗斯之声：武直-10全靠中国人自己完成," in Chinese translates that "Voice of Russia: WZ-10 is completely done by the Chinese themselves." Pvpoodle's translation is: " Voice of Russia: WZ -10 thanks to the Chinese people themselves to complete." It seems that he had used google translate which incorrectly translated the sentence. 俄罗斯之声=Voice of Russia, 全靠中国人自己完成=Completely done by Chinese themselves. This article was written on 03/13/2013, the exact same time period when those four western sources had been published. Its purpose was to quote their contents and debunk them. 6. As everyone can see on the WZ-10 page, it was well written and I have spend hours writing it. Each section from weapon systems, engines, rotor blades, glass cockpit, avionics, radars and flight testing were all designed and done by the Chinese themselves. All the components of WZ-10 were also supplied by Chinese companies, although WZ-10 did use PW engine as its initial engines for flight testing, but the finial production ones were using WoZ-9, a Chinese engine. Yet Pvpoodle give all the design credit to Kamov, which according to his own source stated that Kamov was only involved in its preliminary design.

I suggest that a general consensus to be made from all the editors here on this page and end this edit war, that keep all sourced contents.

1. Change the designer of WZ-10 to: Preliminary design done by Kamov, Prototype and Critical Components designs done by CAIC under Wu XingMing.

2. Move this section "It was designed by Kamov design bureau of Russia under a contract by the Chinese government. It was further developed and flight tested by the 602nd Research Institute under Wu Ximing (吴希明) and is being built by Changhe Aircraft Industries Corporation (CAIC). " under the design content. Therefor, the front page would look like this: The Z-10 (Chinese: 直-10 for 直升机) is an attack helicopter developed by the People's Republic of China. It is designed primarily for anti-tank missions but has secondary air-to-air capability as well.

Nicknames of characters in the Chinese classic novel Water Margin was used to name Z-10 and its smaller comrade Harbin Z-19: Z-10 is named as Fierce Thunderbolt (Pi Li Huo, 霹靂火), the nickname of Qin Ming, while Z-19 is named as Black Whirlwind (Hei Xuan Feng, 黑旋風), the nickname of Li Kui.

3. Under the design content section it would look like this:

The Kamov design bureau was contracted to perform the preliminary design work under a secret contract. Kamov designed , tested and verified the helicopter design, after which it was provided to the Chinese team. The full prototype design and critical components designs were all done by Chinese themselves.

Wu Ximing (吴希明) of the 602nd Research Institute, one of the Chinese top scientists involved in the 863 Program was publicly credited with being the chief designer of the Z-10, in an attempt to preserve the secrecy of the Kamov contract. Wu had earlier participated in the designs of the armed version of transport helicopters Z-8A and WZ-9. In order to complete the necessary development, the 602nd Research Institute and CAIC had jointly built a new engineering design center, industrial simulator, aircraft engine ground test center, fatigue laboratory, and rotary test platform (nicknamed as Iron Bird Platform, 铁鸟台). In the end of 2001, the final test was completed on the full-scale rotary test platform, paving the way for test flights.

Composite material is widely used in the Z-10 but China faced difficulties in this field, particularly in the area of survivability during crashes. Huge efforts were spent to domestically develop composite materials able to provide comparable levels of survivability to Western counterparts. This achievement earned a 2nd place in the Commission for Science, Technology and Industry for National Defense (COSTIND) progress reward.

Accident

The referenced crash resulted in the fuselage remaining intact, apparently. That doesn't mean that "the problem is speculated to have been caused by the tail". The cause of the crash, and the damage resulting, are entire unconnected.101.98.175.68 (talk) 10:12, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

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