Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 12:59, 3 November 2014

Cool Cool Water

Has anyone other than Desper weighed in on the genesis of Cool, Cool Water? I believe Desper recently stated that Friends tracks were being recorded during Wild Honey but all other evidence (AMF sheets, Brad Elliot's "Surf's Up: The Beach Boys on Record" etc.) points to a different scenario, and so I do wonder if his recollections can be taken with 100% assurance. No disrespect intended to the brilliant engineer, I'm just acknowledging sometimes his recollection do not align with the facts (as is wont of any detail recalling of events 40+ years past!), this is especially the case here as sessionography included in the Smile Sessions box set does say the water chant was recorded in October.

Regards, Jamekae (talk) 11:51, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Does the song not speak for itself. Brian sings the bouncy melody played by the oboe(?) from Dada on an unused vocal stem for Cool, Cool Water. Even the chord progressions and constant recycling should be evidence enough. The fact that he recorded the water chant in October means nothing... If he recorded himself and the band doodling with Child is Father of the Man in October but called it Man is the Father of the Child then some people would think it wasn't related to Smile either.--Ilovetopaint (talk) 02:06, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

I think the chord progression connection between "Love to Say Dada" and "Cool, Cool Water" is definitely there; as much as "Love to Say Dada" is an offshoot of the "All Day" section of "Heroes and Villains"; but sharing a chord progression doesn't mean that "Cool, Cool Water" and all the ideas that Brian envisioned for the latter song explicitly fall under the Smile umbrella and that's something that should be made clear. "Can't Wait too Long" recycles the bass riff of the Smile version of "Wind Chimes", does that mean the song and all of its unique components belong to Smile as well? I'd say no.

I don't doubt the possibility that the water chant may have been conceived during the original Smile sessions, I'm just saying evidence now largely points to the fact that it was conceived afterwards. Had the chant been recorded in June along with the first attempt of "Cool, Cool Water" I'd say the case for tying the water chant into the Smile saga would be a lot stronger, however, it was recorded in October. Since that's what been reported by the box set compilers, I think that's what should be clearly stated.

Wishing this Smile thing were easier and more transparent, Jamekae (talk) 03:20, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Does the closing section of Surf's Up fall under the Smile umbrella? That was recorded in 1971. Brian considers the water chant as part of the Smile umbrella. He was creatively ambiguous on the issue in 1967, but submitted his approval in 2003 and again in 2011. I think he's a source worth trusting.--Ilovetopaint (talk) 04:23, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Personally, I think the coda to "Surf's Up" mostly falls under the Smile umbrella, largely because "Surf's Up" isn't an offshoot of another Smile song ala "Dada" > "Cool, Cool Water". That being said, I do think it's only halfway there as no surviving documentation that suggests that the coda would've been a part of a 1966/1967 version of the song, something which should definitely be adressed on the "Surf's Up" article. By the way, was it ever determined who came up with those ending lyrics? I think I read somewhere that Jack Reiley may have had a hand in it, but I'm not 100% sure.

As for the use of the water chant in Brian Wilson presents Smile, one mustn't ignore the fact that Darian had a heavy hand in the sequencing of the 2003 project and (I believe) at the time, it was assumed that the water chant did in fact come from the Smile sessions. Again, details forty years prior being recalled can be hazy, and given the memory damage Landy's medication caused Brian in the 1980s it's unfortunately difficult, and unscholarly to document his recounting of events passed as infallible.

Also, on a side note, do you think there is another suitable name that the "Adult/Child" suite can be referred to? It'd be smart to rename it (if we can) in order to avoid people perceiving association with the unreleased "Adult/Child" album of 1977. Regards, Jamekae (talk) 06:31, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Darian asked Brian, "should this go there?" Brian said "yes." The album could not have been completed without Brian's weigh-in, and he was the one in charge. The same environment existed for the original sessions, where Brian would bring Smile acetates to play for his friends, only for them to make suggestions of their own that he'd take consideration to.

I'm looking for contemporary Smile articles and essays to see if there was ever an official name for those suites. For now, things like "Americana-themed" or "familial-themed" seem right. I don't have Domenic Priose's book which I would like to read through sometime.--Ilovetopaint (talk) 07:41, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Smile: Studio techniques

Hey there Ilovetopaint! Great work on the Smile article, I've gotta say, it's looking better with each edit. I was looking at the length and content of the "Studio techniques" section of the article and I personally felt it was too technical and heavily weighted for casual readers. I'd say that the history behind Brian's production styling/the production behind Pet Sounds etc. would be better addressed on Brian's/Pet Sounds' wikipedia article. To me, it seems a bit unnecessary to go into such great detail for these things on the Smile article. However, this is just my opinion and as you are a heavy contributor to the article, I wanted to hear your opinion on the matter before acting. Regards, Jamekae (talk) 09:53, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

I was going to do that eventually. Currently just bouncing obscure info found on http://arkhonia.wordpress.com into the Wiki article--Ilovetopaint (talk) 22:45, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

Good job with that, the section reads much better now! It's still a little jargon heavy which caused a few of my friends to grow disinterested when reading, but that's easily sorted out. I've got a few more points regarding the article which I've been meaning to put past you over the last couple of days: 1) Should we acknowledge the "Smile is Smiley Smile" theory? I think there's a comprehensive essay floating on the web we could cite for this viewpoint. It's not a very popular opinion, though Brian's radio interview from 1967 actually makes it an interesting conjecture. 2) Do you have any idea of the original publication in which Smiles cancelation was announced? It's a tiny detail, but it'd be nice to reference that tidbit with the original article. Thanks, Jamekae (talk) 17:20, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

Smiley Smile was always considered Smile's substitute. Brian and others went forward to call Smiley and Smile entirely different things in 1967 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRFE-24ucxc. I don't think the recording section is jargon-heavy. I'm still waiting to come across a PDF of Look Listen Vibrate Smile which I think would have reprinted that article. Right now I'm wondering how to fix up how jumbled the 'project collapse' section is, and how to summarize some quotes better than directly citing them.--Ilovetopaint (talk) 06:04, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

This was the essay that brought that alternate viewpoint to mind http://earcandy_mag.tripod.com/rrcase-2.htm I don't entirely agree with it, but regardless, there are parts in there that would do well in the "Smiley Smile" portion of the article for sure. Jamekae (talk) 10:38, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

"In May of 1967 Derek Taylor spoke of the fate of Smile in his press release. Smile “has been SCRAPPED. Not destroyed, but scrapped”. Could this mean that there was still some merit seen in the songs, but they would be ‘converted’ into other songs?" This is stupid. No merit. Except for the parts about Smiley having a lot of the "humor" stuff.--Ilovetopaint (talk) 10:50, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

Just thought I should mention, if the article were to go through a GAR, the reviewer would point arkhonia.wordpress.com out as unreliable, as blogs like this aren't RS. Best, yeepsi (Talk tonight) 16:59, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

recent Good Vibes edit

Regarding this: , the cellos are playing triplets, not eighth notes. Santa Claus of the Future (talk) 17:18, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

June 2013

Thank you for your contributions to Misplaced Pages. I noticed your recent edit to Pet Sounds does not have an edit summary. Please provide one before saving your changes to an article, as the summaries are quite helpful to people browsing an article's history. Significant changes to an article should have edit summaries (WP:FIES). Thanks! Dan56 (talk) 19:37, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Anderle's portrait

I found this image of Anderle's portrait in Nolan's article. Could be of use to you should you wish to reupload an image of the painting with a stronger case for copyright-expiration. http://oi51.tinypic.com/2ln97gl.jpg Regards, Jamekae (talk) 18:33, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Your edits to Heroes and Villains: "Whistle In"

According to the liner notes in The Smile Sessions, "Heroes and Villains: Whistling Bridge" was recorded on 01/27/67, not "Whistle In". The similar titles likely confused David Leaf. If anything, the song's potential link to Smile would be that a few syllables vaguely resembles the Hawaiian segment of "Do You Like Worms?" but I would be surprised if there's strong evidence to make a case of it. - Regards, Jamekae (talk) 04:14, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

Seems so. http://esquarterly.com/bellagio/gigs67.html --Ilovetopaint (talk) 16:26, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

Mr. Bungle and Beach Boys

In this edit from one year ago, you added some text and a reference to NME:

• "Although not explicitly stated by the group, the 1999 album California by Mr. Bungle is somewhat reminiscent of Smile."
  • "NME Album Reviews - California". nme.com. December 7, 1999. Retrieved August 22, 2012.

It's obvious that you pulled the reference in from another page, since the access date is from 2012. If you grab references from another article, please make sure to click on the links and read what they say before you fabricate some text that is wrong. If you had looked at the NME article listed above you would have seen that the Smile album is not there at all, and the Beach Boys are mentioned in passing without naming a specific song or album. There is no support for the text you added. Binksternet (talk) 06:38, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

You're right; screwed up with that one.--Ilovetopaint (talk) 11:39, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

EarthBound translation

Did you translate the stuff you added to EarthBound from Japanese by yourself, or did you use a translation? czar ♔ 21:07, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

Here it is --Ilovetopaint (talk) 01:47, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

Cover art

I apologize about the covers, they actually were the back of the respective single artworks (ex. flip over the "Barbara Ann" artwork, and the "Girl Don't Tell Me" artwork was there.) They're not separate singles, but on Capitol singles, there is cover art for both songs , as seen here. Beatleswhobeachboys (talk) 21:12, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

Oh that's weird, I never would have thought of that. But I think somebody might take issue since it's a back cover and not a front cover. It really confused me anyhow.--Ilovetopaint (talk) 06:44, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, it's kind of weird, but I think that it is probably more appropriate for the B-side song. I don't care if they are removed though. Beatleswhobeachboys (talk) 16:44, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

Singles from albums

Hi. I noticed that you added Magical Mystery Tour back into singles articles that I just reverted the previous day. The reason for my reverts is that the singles are not from MMT; they were all released before the album was compiled. Template:Infobox Album#Template:Singles advises that only singles that were released during the promotion and release of the album should be considered as being from that album. In the case of Strawberry Fields Forever and the others, the release date in the infobox most likely is the UK release date, since only information about the initial release is included in the infobox; obviously, there was no Magical Mystery Tour album in the UK until 1976. Cheers. Radiopathy •talk• 07:14, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

Nonsense. I added a track list template; I didn't meddle with the "from=" parameter. Your reasoning has nothing to do with the extra track listing template since they're independent of the single release. Hence the parameter "type=album". The existence of track list templates for compilations An Introduction to Syd Barrett, Relics, and The Best of George Harrison seem to inherently contradict your notion. Adding a track list template does not even suggest that the singles are "from" anything, only that they were included elsewhere in some other LP.--Ilovetopaint (talk) 07:53, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

Nonsense yourself: your edit summary, "was released on American Magical Mystery Tour LP in 1967", as well as your answer above, tells me that that you think that since a single is included on an album, regardless of the length of time between the single's release date and the album's release date, that that album should be listed in the single's infobox, which is not correct. That album parameter is only there for singles that were released at or close to the time of the album's release and promotion - which is why, for example, the "Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da" single from 1978 is not from the album "The Beatles". Radiopathy •talk• 00:13, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

In the case of "Hello, Goodbye", "I Am the Walrus", etc. it should be all right then. For the other tracks, your reasoning still does not stand because such doesn't apply to track list templates. Unless you can prove otherwise, there is no consensus which states that placing the template for the American Magical Mystery Tour track list in the infobox for the "Strawberry Fields Forever" single is improper use.--Ilovetopaint (talk) 00:23, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

It is improper use, since the single was released in February 1967, while the album wasn't released until November of that year. There's nothing for me to "prove". Radiopathy •talk• 00:54, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

...and by your reasoning, "Strawberry Fields Forever" should also include the track list template for 1967-1970 and Imagine: John Lennon - which of course is absurd. Radiopathy •talk• 01:01, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

You've yet to offer anything which supports your accusations of improper use. The {{Singles}} template for album infoboxes (one which is destined to determine whether or not a single is from an album) is not a track list template such as {{Magical Mystery Tour tracks}} for song infoboxes (one which is destined to offer a navigational track list within an infobox for additional appearances of a song or single).

And which templates to include can be determined on a case-by-case basis through talk page consensus. I don't see {{Magical Mystery Tour tracks}} being absurd since its undeniable that the American version of Magical Mystery Tour is where most laymans associate "Strawberry Fields Forever". It only depends on notability and whether it's visually appealling.--Ilovetopaint (talk) 01:09, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

Strawberry Fields Forever has nothing to do with MMT for most of the world; it is from a Capital album compiled months after its release. When it was released in February 1967, the Magical Mystery Tour programme hadn't even been shot, nor had most of the songs from the EP been recorded, so it wasn't even destined to be on an album at the time of its release.

Only information pertaining to the initial release of a song or album belongs in the infobox. Radiopathy •talk• 18:57, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

The American Magical Mystery Tour LP is recognized by Misplaced Pages as part of the Beatles' core catalogue with prevalence over the UK Magical Mystery Tour double EP. With that established, I want to see an official consensus on the matter which unequivocally states that navigational track lists for a single's latent reissue should not be placed in the original release's respective infoboxes, not somebody's (presumably) unofficial word. Really, I'm absolutely curious to see whether anything has actually been said about it, since there are a myriad of single infoboxes on Misplaced Pages which contain track list templates for albums/compilations which they did not premier on.--Ilovetopaint (talk) 18:58, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

Then you should open a discussion at WikiProject:Albums. Radiopathy •talk• 19:05, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

I will, thanks.--Ilovetopaint (talk) 19:07, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

Possibly unfree File:Frank Holmes Smile art.jpg

A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Frank Holmes Smile art.jpg, has been listed at Misplaced Pages:Possibly unfree files because its copyright status is unclear or disputed. If the file's copyright status cannot be verified, it may be deleted. You may find more information on the file description page. You are welcome to add comments to its entry at the discussion if you object to the listing for any reason. Thank you. We hope (talk) 13:33, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

September 2014

Please stop adding unreferenced or poorly referenced biographical content, especially if controversial, to articles or any other Misplaced Pages page. Content of this nature could be regarded as defamatory and is in violation of Misplaced Pages policy. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing Misplaced Pages. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 01:49, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

Noted; opened discussion of edit in talk page.--Ilovetopaint (talk) 03:39, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

Album type

Please stop Edits like this break {{Infobox album}} and place articles in the tracking category Category:Album_articles_with_non-standard_infoboxes. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 15:18, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

{{Infobox album}} states "If the type is unknown, leave the field blank." I've elaborated more on the article's talk page.--Ilovetopaint (talk) 17:08, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

Brian Wilson

I chose the "greatest success" wording because it's accurate and objective, but primarily because the guy who removed the "best known for" wording basically trawls around removing that exact wording wherever he sees it, because he has a major objection to it. You've restored it, which is fine with me, but he may come back and remove it again, possibly with an aggressive edit summary. If he does, it might be worth devising some other similar wording, without regressing to his overly-basic short sentences. Cheers, Bretonbanquet (talk) 17:22, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

The IP in question has been blocked, so if another IP comes along and reverts your edit, he's evading his block and can hopefully be dealt with. Let's hope we see no further action. Cheers, Bretonbanquet (talk) 23:28, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the info. --Ilovetopaint (talk) 04:36, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

GamerGate Sanctions, FYI only

Please read this notification carefully:
A community decision has authorised the use of general sanctions for pages related to the Gamergate controversy.
The details of these sanctions are described here.

General sanctions is a system of conduct regulation designed to minimise disruption in controversial topic areas. This means uninvolved administrators can impose sanctions for edits relating to these topics that do not adhere to the purpose of Misplaced Pages, our standards of behaviour, or relevant policies. Administrators may impose sanctions such as editing restrictions, bans, or blocks. An editor can only be sanctioned after he or she has been made aware that general sanctions are in effect. This notification is meant to inform you that sanctions are authorised in these topic areas, which you have been editing. It is only effective if it is logged here. Before continuing to edit pages in these topic areas, please familiarise yourself with the general sanctions system. Don't hesitate to contact me or another editor if you have any questions.

This message is informational only and does not imply misconduct regarding your contributions to date.

EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 21:11, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for November 3

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Misplaced Pages appreciates your help. We noticed though that you've added some links pointing to disambiguation pages. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

Sunflower (The Beach Boys album)

added a link pointing to Timothy White

Surf's Up (album)

added a link pointing to Timothy White

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot (talk) 12:59, 3 November 2014 (UTC)