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Untitled

The "Vote for Cuomo..." quote probably deserves no place in the Edward Koch article. It certainly does not belong here. Wikismile 21:30, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

It's barely pertinent here, unless someone can demonstrate that Meyerson created it, or, I suppose, that her hanging out with Mister Ed was her idea. ♥ «Charles A. L.» 02:58, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

How many Jewish Miss Americas have there been? Google can only find Meyerson, at least with my search terms. Misplaced Pages is not paper; I don't think it's unreasonable to say she's the only Jew ever to be crowned Miss America until there's another one. Certainly it's less misleading. I just don't want to make the change without being certain. ♥ «Charles A. L.» 03:04, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

I saw somewhere that she was the only Jewish Miss America. And it happened in 1945. Please... Talk about a sentimental/fixed win...

--Irrelevant. Keep your anti-semitic conspiracy theories off of the discussion board. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.3.244.182 (talk) 04:23, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

Speech

The full text of the 1970 speech is inappropriate. An external link would be much more appropriate if one could be found. Khatru2 01:44, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

I was the one who typed and contributed Bess Meyerson's speech. I looked for a link but could find one that contained the speech. I had kept the handout since 1970 when I heard her speak in San Francisco.

For one thing I find it fascinating that Meyerson --who had been a beauty queen-- gave an anti-war speech. How courageous! That's shocking in and of itself--

More importantly, we find ourselves entering the final stages of another unpopular war. There are many comparisons in Bess Meyerson's speech to today's political environment.

The speech is also a window into the style of the anti-war movement in 1970. Quite fascinating. The feeling is there in her words.

User:Samitami.

Discrimination Claim Overstated

I think the discrimination claim by Bess Myerson is overstated. She was elected Miss New York, and thereafter became Miss America. If there had been any serious opposition to a "Miss America" who was Jewish, there was plenty of opportunity to derail her candidacy at an earlier stage of the proceedings, and to do it in a way that would not readily lend itself to a charge of religious discrimination. The conversation with Lenora Slaughter, regarding the proposal to change Myerson's name to something "less Jewish sounding," may be more a reflection of Myerson's perception of it than Slaughter's intention. First of all, I presume that, by the time they had conversation, Myerson already had been elected (it would have made no sense to have the conversation earlier than that). Slaughter may have wished to diffuse any controversy over Myerson's religious beliefs and give Myerson the opportunity to be judged by the public on the merits, without having to constantly refer to the religious issue. Many famous personalities changed their names, including Bert Parks, who was Jewish, and whose name originally was Bert Jacobson.

I am not sure, but I seem to recall that Tawny Godin, the Miss America of 1976, was Jewish.

John Paul Parks (talk) 18:44, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Recent ovehaul

Made a number of changes to the article. It was poorly written and contains a number of ambiguities. I have added tags to those areas where vagueness is leaving readers uninformed. I hope to get to looking further into the references and finding the answers to the ambiguousness, if anyone else wants to try and fix it first, have at it. -- WV ● ✉ ✓ 05:32, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you mean by "ambiguities." What you did was to remove sourced text on a number of crucial aspects of this biography:

• You removed the reference to her brother, who died at the age of three. It is standard practice in biographies to mention any siblings.

• More importantly, you made changes that removed en masse the significance of her winning the Miss America pageant, the first Jewish woman to have done so, at the end of World War II. A paragraph that said as follows:

She was the first and, to date, only Jewish Miss America. Her attaining that title shortly after the end of the Second World War, with the memory of the Holocaust still fresh, was a seminal event for American Jews as an affirmation of the community's acceptance by U.S. society.

... was watered down to read as follows:

At the time of her death, Myerson was the only Jewish Miss America. With World War II just ending and details regarding the atrocities committed against the Jewish people during the Holocaust finally being fully disclosed, Myerson winning the title was seen as a remarkable achievement.

That was sourced to the Times obit, which said as follows:

"To many Jews, often blamed for the war by anti-Semites, newly traumatized by images of the liberated Nazi death camps and often confronted by that anti-Semitism in their everyday lives, the title seemed an affirmation of some sort of acceptance in America. 'In the Jewish community, she was the most famous pretty girl since Queen Esther,' Susan Dworkin wrote in 'Miss America, 1945: Bess Myerson’s Own Story,' published in 1987."

This paragraph:

While competing in the Miss America pageant as Miss New York 1945, she refused, despite entreaties, to use a pseudonym that "sounded less Jewish." She faced anti-semitism after winning the Miss America title on September 8, 1945, "including the withdrawal of three of the annual beauty pageant’s five sponsors from the arrangement by which the queen would represent the company during her year-long reign." She later campaigned for civil rights, in particular, working with the Anti-Defamation League.

.. you changed to

While competing as Miss New York in the 1945 Miss America pageant, she had been asked to use a pseudonym that "sounded less Jewish." Myerson refused. As a result, controversy arose after she won the title on September 8, 1945, when three of the pageant's five sponsors withdrew from having her represent their companies as Miss America. Myerson later became a supporter and activist for civil rights, including working with the Anti-Defamation League.[3

All of the material that you removed, without explanation or discussion, is amply supported by the sources, including the New York Times front-page obituary, the LA Times obit, the websites sited and the Dworkin biography, which I have and am starting to utilize to incorporate into the article. I have added a source to the second paragraph and will continue to beef up the "Miss America" section of her biography, which was the subject of the authoritative Dworkin book.

Rather than reverting and removing en masse I would encourage you to discuss any such significant prospective text removals here in talk, rather than slashing away and then posting the vague note that you did above. Coretheapple (talk) 20:19, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

RE: Claim in article that she was a subject of anti-semitism and the Jewish community saw her MA win as a "seminal event". The attached reference says nothing of the kind. Anti-semitism is mentioned, but not in relation to Myerson's win. As well, nothing in the article gives proof that Jewish Americans felt her win was "seminal" nor that she was the her win was affirmation. All the obit says is, "To many Jews...the title seemed an affirmation of some sort of acceptance in America." Note the words "To many Jews" and "seemed". Both qualify for WP:WEASEL status, and neither statements are supported by references. There are no sources attached to either statement that supports these obviously POV, emotional, and hyperbolic claims as being real or anything other than original research and personal opinion by the obit writer. They both need to be removed as even after a BLP article subject dies, WP:BLP policies still apply to the article for upto two years after the article subject's death. -- WV ● ✉ ✓ 21:52, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

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