| Revision as of 09:09, 28 April 2015 editEllieTea (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users527 edits →DiCanio← Previous edit | Revision as of 12:07, 29 April 2015 edit undoEllieTea (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users527 edits →Statistics in the lede: new sectionNext edit → | ||
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| :::::Again, it is being argued that the police underreport false accusations. | :::::Again, it is being argued that the police underreport false accusations. | ||
| :::::] (]) 09:09, 28 April 2015 (UTC) | :::::] (]) 09:09, 28 April 2015 (UTC) | ||
| == Statistics in the lede == | |||
| The lede said the following. {{quote|... in the United States, the FBI Uniform Crime Report in 1996 and the United States Department of Justice in 1997 stated 8% of rape accusations in the United States were regarded as unfounded or false Studies in other countries have reported their own rates at anywhere from 1.5% (Denmark) to 10% (Canada).}} | |||
| The statistic for the FBI/DoJ is highly misleading, for reasons discussed in the section "FBI statistics". | |||
| The statistic from Denmark is taken from Rumney (2006). Here is what Rumney actually says. {{quote|... use of the 10% figure is part of a study of false complaints by the Institute of Medicine in Copenhagen. As noted earlier, the 10% figure is the highest given during the five year period covered by this study, the lowest number ... was 1.5%.}} | |||
| Thus, the figure for Denmark that is quoted in the lede is also misleading. | |||
| The statistic for Canada is also taken from Rumney. The statistic is for a single city (Toronto) in 1970; moreover, the statistic was disputed by the Toronto police. Thus this statistic, too, is misleading. | |||
| Considering the above, I have removed all the statistics from the lede. ] (]) 12:07, 29 April 2015 (UTC) | |||
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 | This page has been cited as a source by a notable professional or academic publication: Rape Is Rape: How Denial, Distortion, and Victim Blaming Are Fueling a Hidden Acquaintance Rape Crisis by Jody Raphael (Chicago Review Press, 2013) ISBN 9781613744796 "...between 2010 and 2011, Misplaced Pages users edited and added some of the new studies—as well as Professor Lisak's critique of Eugene J. Kanin—to the site's "False Accusation of Rape" entry. As recorded by the entry's "Talk" page, the article's author, a rape denier, then removed some of the new material. These actions caused the new research, non-Kanin material to be unavailable to Misplaced Pages readers. The hullabaloo stands as a mini-version of the whole controversy." |
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Survey of 20 police officers
In the section False_accusation_of_rape#Police_opinions_on_false_rape I have removed this:
According to a small-scale survey of 20 US law enforcement officers conducted in 2004, officers believe that the typical person making a false accusation is "female (100%), Caucasian (100%), 15–20 years of age (10%), 31–45 years of age (25%), or 21–30 years of age (65%)". A false accusation may be perpetrated out of a desire for attention or sympathy, anger or revenge, or to cover up behavior deemed "inappropriate" by the accuser's peers.
'Small-scale survey' is an understatement. 20 US law enforcement officers is an absurdly low number of participants for a survey. This sounds more like a survey conducted for a grade-school assignment. Unfortunately, the source is non-free so I can't read more about their methodology. If anyone has access to this, I would appreciate if someone could post information on the methodology (particularly selection methodology) for this specific survey. ― Padenton |☎ 18:36, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
DiCanio
Why is the DiCanio citation being removed? EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 03:25, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
- Thank you for asking and discussing. My reasons were given in my edit summary. The main reason is that it is strongly contradicted by the cited table from Rumney (2006); note that Rumney is a research article in a respected journal, and that the WP article has a whole section devoted to Rumney. The other reason is that, in my experience, Facts on File is not the best in terms of reliability (though it is not bad either).
- I do not feel strongly about removing DiCanio. If DiCanio is kept, however, then I feel strongly that the article should deal with the contradiction with Rumney.
- My own preference would be to remove that entire section, including the citation of Greer. EllieTea (talk) 03:35, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
- It's not for us editors to resolve contradictions in data. The DiCanio piece is a tertiary source in an encyclopedia. Rumney is a secondary source and a literature review. Both are decent sources so I see no reason to remove either.
- What exactly do you see as being contradictory to Rumney? I don't want to assume. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 03:44, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
- Dicanio is cited as saying that researchers generally agree on a range of 2% to 10%. That is contradicted by Rumney's table (in the WP article): the table has a majority of research studies finding a figure greater than 10%, and close to half the studies finding at least 20%. EllieTea (talk) 04:00, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
- We'd need a reliable source to point that fact out. Otherwise it would be WP:SYNTH. I don't have access to DiCanio, but they could be considering more sources than Rumney. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 04:15, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
- I do not have a copy of DiCanio readily available either. There is a strong contradiction with Rumney, though, and I feel strongly about addressing that.
- Regarding SYNTH, see WP:What SYNTH is not#SYNTH is not a rigid rule, which states "Never use a policy in such a way that the net effect will be to stop people from improving an article"; addressing a strong contradiction improves an article. Additionally, SYNTH is "when two or more reliably-sourced statements are combined to produce a new thesis"; it seems arguable that pointing out the contradiction is a new thesis. In any case, though, there might be a way to address the contradiction that sidesteps this issue, e.g. "DiCanio (1993) claims that while researchers and prosecutors do not agree on the exact percentage of false allegations, they generally agree on a range of 2% to 10%; the range claimed by DiCanio can be compared with the rates reported in Rumney's survey of the research literature". EllieTea (talk) 09:09, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
- It's also ignoring Rumney's own observations, which noted that a lot of the estimates are overestimates due to police skepticism of accusations, and singles out a few of the higher numbers as coming from particularly flawed studies. –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 04:36, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
- I have looked through Rumney, and I did not find enough to resolve the contradiction. Moreover, I found the following two statements.
... quote one police officer thus: "If rape was treated as any other crime you would probably no-crime a lot more. But because rape is treated as something special, and indeed it is a serious crime, it is much more difficult to no-crime it".
Smith notes that it was not possible to tell whether reports that were not recorded because of insufficient evidence, may in fact, have been false.
- Those statements indicate that the police might well be underreporting the true rate of false rape accusations.
- Additionally, the WP article cites a (valid) problem with Stewart (1981), but fails to note that Rumney also tells the following.
Stewart examined 18 allegations of rape and concluded that 16 were false. Of these 16, it was claimed that the complainant admitted to making a false complaint in 14 cases.
- Thus, the WP article seems to misrepresent the issues with Stewart.
- Relatedly, Turvey (2014) states the following.
Unfortunately, it is common for even seasoned investigators to accept an alleged victim’s statement or story without question or suspicion. This uncritical aspect may arise out of a fear of disturbing the alleged victim, being viewed as politically incorrect by victim advocates and colleagues, or a lack of knowledge about the investigation of potential false reports.
... an overall political environment that sanctions such identifications and investigations can promulgate a fearful investigative mindset. This fear of political reprisal routinely provides for the failure to correctly identify and investigate false reports to their fullest conclusion. As discussed in Palmer and Thornhill (2000, p. 160), “To some feminists, the concept of false rape allegation itself constitutes discriminatory harassment.” It is not unreasonable in such an environment for investigators and forensic examiners to be concerned that the investigation of a false report, and even the consideration of false reporting as a viable case theory, will result in negative consequences from colleagues, superiors, the media, victim advocates, and the general public.
- Again, it is being argued that the police underreport false accusations.
- EllieTea (talk) 09:09, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
- I have looked through Rumney, and I did not find enough to resolve the contradiction. Moreover, I found the following two statements.
- We'd need a reliable source to point that fact out. Otherwise it would be WP:SYNTH. I don't have access to DiCanio, but they could be considering more sources than Rumney. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 04:15, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
- Dicanio is cited as saying that researchers generally agree on a range of 2% to 10%. That is contradicted by Rumney's table (in the WP article): the table has a majority of research studies finding a figure greater than 10%, and close to half the studies finding at least 20%. EllieTea (talk) 04:00, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
Statistics in the lede
The lede said the following.
... in the United States, the FBI Uniform Crime Report in 1996 and the United States Department of Justice in 1997 stated 8% of rape accusations in the United States were regarded as unfounded or false Studies in other countries have reported their own rates at anywhere from 1.5% (Denmark) to 10% (Canada).
The statistic for the FBI/DoJ is highly misleading, for reasons discussed in the section "FBI statistics".
The statistic from Denmark is taken from Rumney (2006). Here is what Rumney actually says.
... use of the 10% figure is part of a study of false complaints by the Institute of Medicine in Copenhagen. As noted earlier, the 10% figure is the highest given during the five year period covered by this study, the lowest number ... was 1.5%.
Thus, the figure for Denmark that is quoted in the lede is also misleading.
The statistic for Canada is also taken from Rumney. The statistic is for a single city (Toronto) in 1970; moreover, the statistic was disputed by the Toronto police. Thus this statistic, too, is misleading.
Considering the above, I have removed all the statistics from the lede. EllieTea (talk) 12:07, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
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