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| ==thewyzewun replying to npov's comments== | |||
| "Hezbollah is a political party" | |||
| Actually, Hezbollah has many faces; read the article about them. | |||
| The killing of Lebanese civilians is cited as accidental (although my personal view is that they don't really care; they call it an accident but not a tragedy, but that's not based on facts. That said, they're just defending their people at any cost, which is fair enough in "real terms" (i.e. the world's screwed up), not like the UK and Germany didn't kill each other's civilians much in WW2!). | |||
| Also the damage to infrastructure is to stop Hezbollah's ESO from attacking them further, not that this seems to be working... | |||
| "Israel has killed several official Lebanese soldiers with Lebanon still sitting out of this for peace's sake." | |||
| IMHO Lebanon is "sitting out of this" because they're a very small country and Hezbollah's military strength is likely greater. | |||
| I would describe this as a conflict. | |||
Revision as of 23:42, 31 July 2006
See also:
i suggest this be a talk page for Qana the village in general.
Boud 16:07, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
npov describing the two conflicts
Are these conflicts "with Hezbollah" are conflicts "with Lebanon"?
Israel claims that they are conflicts with Hezbollah. But Hezbollah is a political party, part of the government coalition in power in Lebanon. So that makes it a conflict with the Lebanese government, and hence against "Lebanon", where "Lebanon" means the state of Lebanon. Since Israel is also killing civilians in Lebanon and destroying the infrastructure of the whole country - surely not all of this is controlled by Hezbollah - ports, roads, airport, i don't see how using the Israel description can be NPOV. Just because a lot of the mainstream media are repeating the term does not make it WP:NPOV.
Since someone wants to use this term, i've put:
- during military conflicts with Lebanon (Operation Grapes of Wrath and the 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict), which Israeli spokespeople described as a conflict "against Hezbollah":
This way it properly attributes the claim that the war is only against Hezbollah and not against Lebanon to the source of the claim (Israeli spokespeople).
Boud 16:33, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
Try looking at these two maps and then tell me if this is a war against a political party with an armed wing or against an entire country: http://maps.samidoun.org/Infrastructure_map_12-24.jpg http://maps.samidoun.org/lebanon_map_July_12-29.jpg
Boud 16:37, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- What you did is even wronger than before, you're saying: "Israel has a military conflict with Lebanon, but they deny the truth and say it's with Hezbollah". Hezbollah has a militant wing and a political wing. Even if it is a legal Lebanese party, its "army" is definitely not the Lebanese army. If the Lebanese army is not involved, it can not be a conflict between Israel and Lebanon. ⌠Yellow up
⌡ 18:15, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
It is definitely a conflict with Lebanon as civilian infrastructure was immediately targetted, including roads, bridges, banks, airports, Lebanese Army bases, UN building, and a dairy company. These are incidents far away from 'Hezbollah fighting'. Including areas claimed to be sites of Hezbollah fighting would be civilian towns, apartments and shelters. Furthermore, Israel has killed several official Lebanese soldiers with Lebanon still sitting out of this for peace's sake. More Lebanese soldiers have been killed by Israel since this new conflict started than the initial attack by Hezbollah which captured the two soldiers.
- Its a genocide taking part in front of our eyes...and we still argue wether it is a conflict or not. 213.5.32.247 22:37, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
- In addition to being demonstrably false-and patently absurd-the description of what is occurring in Lebanon as "genocide" is not neutral.
- By the way, if that is genocide, then how would you describe the indiscriminate shelling and deliberate targeting of civilians living within Northern and central Israel by Hezbollah?
Ruthfulbarbarity 22:43, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
thewyzewun replying to npov's comments
"Hezbollah is a political party" Actually, Hezbollah has many faces; read the article about them. The killing of Lebanese civilians is cited as accidental (although my personal view is that they don't really care; they call it an accident but not a tragedy, but that's not based on facts. That said, they're just defending their people at any cost, which is fair enough in "real terms" (i.e. the world's screwed up), not like the UK and Germany didn't kill each other's civilians much in WW2!). Also the damage to infrastructure is to stop Hezbollah's ESO from attacking them further, not that this seems to be working...
"Israel has killed several official Lebanese soldiers with Lebanon still sitting out of this for peace's sake." IMHO Lebanon is "sitting out of this" because they're a very small country and Hezbollah's military strength is likely greater.
I would describe this as a conflict.