Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 18:48, 6 August 2015

This article was the subject of an educational assignment in Spring 2015. Further details were available on the "Education Program:Duquesne University/UCOR 143 Global and Cultural Perspectives (Spring 2015)" page, which is now unavailable on the wiki.

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Hinduism article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Misplaced Pages? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help. Assume good faith Be polite and avoid personal attacks Be welcoming to newcomers Seek dispute resolution if needed Article policies Neutral point of view No original research Verifiability

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31Auto-archiving period: 5 days

Template:Vital article

Please stay calm and civil while commenting or presenting evidence, and do not make personal attacks. Be patient when approaching solutions to any issues. If consensus is not reached, other solutions exist to draw attention and ensure that more editors mediate or comment on the dispute.

This article is written in Indian English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, analysed, defence) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

	Hinduism is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed.
	This article appeared on Misplaced Pages's Main Page as Today's featured article on April 24, 2004.
Article milestones Date Process Result April 19, 2004 Featured article candidate Promoted March 29, 2006 Featured article review Kept June 26, 2006 Featured article review Demoted December 4, 2006 Featured article candidate Not promoted January 4, 2007 Good article nominee Listed August 10, 2008 Good article reassessment Delisted Current status: Former featured article

This article has not yet been rated on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. India Top‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject India, which aims to improve Misplaced Pages's coverage of India-related topics. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page.IndiaWikipedia:WikiProject IndiaTemplate:WikiProject IndiaIndia Top This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Nepal Mid‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Nepal, which aims to improve Misplaced Pages's coverage of Nepal-related topics. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page and add your name to the member's list.NepalWikipedia:WikiProject NepalTemplate:WikiProject NepalNepal Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Pakistan Low‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Pakistan, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Pakistan on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PakistanWikipedia:WikiProject PakistanTemplate:WikiProject PakistanPakistan Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Sri Lanka Mid‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Sri Lanka, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Sri Lanka on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Sri LankaWikipedia:WikiProject Sri LankaTemplate:WikiProject Sri LankaSri Lanka Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale. Africa: Mauritius This article is within the scope of WikiProject Africa, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Africa on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.AfricaWikipedia:WikiProject AfricaTemplate:WikiProject AfricaAfrica ??? This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale. This article is supported by WikiProject Mauritius. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Indonesia Mid‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Indonesia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Indonesia and Indonesia-related topics on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IndonesiaWikipedia:WikiProject IndonesiaTemplate:WikiProject IndonesiaIndonesia Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Malaysia Low‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Malaysia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Malaysia and Malaysia-related topics on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.MalaysiaWikipedia:WikiProject MalaysiaTemplate:WikiProject MalaysiaMalaysia Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Cambodia Low‑importance Hinduism is part of WikiProject Cambodia, a project to improve all Cambodia-related articles. The WikiProject is also a part of the Counteracting systematic bias group on Misplaced Pages, aiming to provide a wider and more detailed coverage on countries and areas of the encyclopedia which are notably less developed than the rest. If you would like to help improve this and other Cambodia-related articles, please join the project. All interested editors are welcome.CambodiaWikipedia:WikiProject CambodiaTemplate:WikiProject CambodiaCambodia Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale. Cambodia To-do: edit history watch purge Let us work in the best reference and presentation of archaeological sites of Cambodia beyond Angkor like Sambor Prei Kuk, Angkor Borei (Takeo), etc. Should disambiguate Republican Party for Democracy and Renewal and generally try to link up social conscience with right-wing values. I'm looking for the best picture or any informations about the KAF's U-6 (Beaver). It seem that the KAF had 3 aircrafts. But in 1971, during the viet cong's sapper attack at the Pochentong Air Base,at least 1 Beaver was destroyed.In 1972 at leat 1 Beaver was refurbished with a new engine. http://www.khmerairforce.com/AAK-KAF/AVNK-AAK-KAF/Cambodia-Beaver-KAF.JPG Thankfull for this info. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Afghanistan Low‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Afghanistan, a project to maintain and expand Afghanistan-related subjects on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.AfghanistanWikipedia:WikiProject AfghanistanTemplate:WikiProject AfghanistanAfghanistan Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. South America: Guyana Low‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject South America, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles related to South America on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.South AmericaWikipedia:WikiProject South AmericaTemplate:WikiProject South AmericaSouth America Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale. This article is supported by WikiProject Guyana (assessed as Low-importance). Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Trinidad and Tobago Mid‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Trinidad and Tobago, an attempt to build a comprehensive guide to the country of the Republic of Trinidad and Tobago on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, you can edit this article, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion. If you are new to editing Misplaced Pages visit the welcome page to become familiar with the guidelines.Trinidad and TobagoWikipedia:WikiProject Trinidad and TobagoTemplate:WikiProject Trinidad and TobagoTrinidad and Tobago Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Hinduism Top‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Hinduism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Hinduism on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.HinduismWikipedia:WikiProject HinduismTemplate:WikiProject HinduismHinduism Top This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Religion Top‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Religion, a project to improve Misplaced Pages's articles on Religion-related subjects. Please participate by editing the article, and help us assess and improve articles to good and 1.0 standards, or visit the wikiproject page for more details.ReligionWikipedia:WikiProject ReligionTemplate:WikiProject ReligionReligion Top This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale. Template:WP1.0 Spoken Misplaced Pages This article is within the scope of WikiProject Spoken Misplaced Pages, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles that are spoken on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Spoken WikipediaWikipedia:WikiProject Spoken WikipediaTemplate:WikiProject Spoken WikipediaSpoken Misplaced Pages

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Hinduism article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Misplaced Pages? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help. Assume good faith Be polite and avoid personal attacks Be welcoming to newcomers Seek dispute resolution if needed Article policies Neutral point of view No original research Verifiability

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31Auto-archiving period: 5 days

Addition to Further Reading

Hello! I have a suggested addition for 'Further Reading: Scholarly'

Flueckiger, Joyce Burkhalter (2015), Everyday Hinduism, Wiley-Blackwell, ISBN 978-1-4051-6021-6

Alaani (talk) 18:11, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Islam and sects of Hinduism (c. 1200-1700 CE)

This section does not look neutral - it does not even mention the revival of Hinduism in India under two powerful states - Vijayanagar and Maratha I am editing this section with absolute credible references

Amit20081980 (talk) 18:55, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

References

1. http://www.britannica.com/place/Vijayanagar
2. http://www.britannica.com/place/India/Political-and-economic-decentralization-during-the-Mughal-decline#toc46985

Good addition, I think. Interestingly, it seems that it was also the Vijayanagar Empire where Shankara was elevated to the status he still has today. This contrasts with the statement in the article "Followers of the Bhakti movement moved away from the abstract concept of Brahman, which Adi Shankara consolidated a few centuries before." Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 19:59, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Unfortunately, the first paragraph seems to have come from some Hindutva pamphlet. What "sects of Hinduism"? I don't see any. Cheers, Kautilya3 (talk) 22:29, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

@Kautilya3: Bhakti sects of Hinduism, makes more sense in the title. Bhakti movement gathered steam after 12th century, peaked between 15th-18th centuries in east/west/central/north regions of the subcontinent. See Karen Pechelis and Schomer & McLeod sources in the article. Also see: Christian Lee Novetzke (2013), Religion and Public Memory, Columbia University Press, ISBN 978-0231512565, pages 138-140. It includes a discussion of Islamic rule period and Bhakti movement in their Deccan region, on those pages. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 04:26, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

Hi Sarah, I know. But I was pointing out that there is no mention of any of it in the section. In fact, the section is leaving religion behind and going off into politics. I am not sure how this happened. On the matter of "sects", as opposed to "movements", I expect there would be diversity in the scholarly sources. Calling them "sects" as if it were a fact seems to constitute POV. Cheers, Kautilya3 (talk) 08:04, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

Totally agree with Amit20081980. This section is written in an utter rubbish way.Ghatus (talk) 13:41, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

@Kautilya3: Indeed. Bhakti movement needs to be mentioned in this article. Religion-related historical violence and its impact on the religion, its followers is relevant and due, for balance and completeness. Similar discussions are in Christianity and Islam articles. Let us focus on reliable sources, instead of puzzling perspectives of their anti-Hindu, pro-Hindu, anti-Islam, pro-Islam organizations. The section looks well sourced. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 14:10, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

@Ghatus: I reverted you because your edits have issues and they weakened the article. You, for example, generalized Richard Eaton's book on Islam-Hindu interaction in Bengal region of India (The Rise of Islam and the Bengal Frontier) to all of India, and your summary wasn't accurate either (FWIW, Maratha/Vijayanagara should be trimmed; this overview article is too big). Lets discuss per BRD, and reach consensus. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 14:46, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

What do you know about Sufism in India? Bengal and Punjab was the center of Suhrawardiyya.Ghatus (talk) 16:12, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

Islam and Hinduism-1200-1750

1)Which renowned Historian wrote that Hindus became Muslim by just dent of Sword? It's a total rubbish statement. Even a person having some knowledge of mediaval History knows that there were several reasons for conversions. Read books of B. Chandra, Thapar, RS sharma, Eaton, D. Jha. Some of the reasons are:

• Initially by violence, threat or other pressure against the person.
• As a socio-cultural process of diffusion and integration over an extended period of time.
• That conversions occurred for non-religious reasons of pragmatism and patronage such as social mobility among the Muslim ruling elite.
• Some of Muslims were descendants of migrants from the Iranians or Arabs.
• Majority Conversion was a result of the actions of Sufi saints.

2)Islam was dominant in North India, but not in the South.

3)Bhakti started in the the South actually, but flourished in the north.

4)Vijaynagar and Maratha power show the revival of Hinduism.

These are historical facts. Theologians should keep a distance from History. Ghatus (talk) 15:36, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

@Kautilya3: & @Joshua Jonathan: Do look into the matter. Ms Sarah Welch is unfit for history writing. I do not have enough time at hand now, but this myth of "Hindu trauma at the hand of Muslim tyranny" was first spread by the British and it later became a main driving point of Hindu Nationalist movement.Ghatus (talk) 16:06, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

@Ghatus: Avoid forum-y behavior, see WP:TALKNO. Try providing specific RS with page numbers, with sentences/proposal to improve the section. I am puzzled by your third revert on this article today, despite BRD reminder, and after I have already provided specific issues with your edits above. If you want another issue, you changed the Jizya repeal language, which was already in article before your edit. You changed it to, without source:

"The Delhi Sultanate of North India imposed Jizya tax on Hindus, later it was repealed by Akbar when the Mughal rule was formally established in India."

This made it misleadingly inaccurate and worse, because Akbar did not establish Mughal rule, and Jizya was brought back by Aurangzeb. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 16:13, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

1)Babur's Mughal rule on some parts of India was wiped out within some years. Akbar FORMALLY ESTABLISHED mughal rule in India in 1556. yes, Jizya was re-introduced by his great grand son Aurangzebe, but the Marathas are now already in the scene and it was the end of the empire. I was just presenting both sides.Ghatus (talk) 16:20, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

Dear both, this is an article on religion. I suggest we steer clear of politics. What interests us in this article is what impact Islam/Muslim rule made on Hinduism. Nothing has been said about that in the article. Jizya and slavery etc. don't belong here. Cheers, Kautilya3 (talk) 16:26, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

@Kautilya3: Jizya were religion-related taxes. It belongs here, much like it belongs in the relevant Judaism section, as it already does. Same is true for slavery and other issues, if and where religion was an issue. This is well sourced, relevant and belongs. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 16:34, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

Who wrote such lines like- "Typically enslaved Hindus converted to Islam to gain their freedom","Starting with 13th century, for a period of some 500 years, very few texts, from the numerous written by Muslim court historians, mention any "voluntary conversions of Hindus to Islam", suggesting its insignificance and perhaps rarity of such conversions".

I CHALLENGE TO PRESENT ANY SERIOUS HISTORIAN WRITING SUCH LINES ON INDIAN HISTORY. THESE ARE TOTAL RUBBISH WRITTEN BY SOME THIRD RATE PAMPHLETEERS. ALL BOGUS. Are these lines written by-B. Chandra? Thapar? RS sharma? Eaton? D. Jha? Ghatus (talk) 16:38, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

Who is P Hardy? Who is Hari Sharma? What are their worth and accomplishment? Their opinion do not even count. Ghatus (talk) 16:44, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

BTW, I am not going to leave this matter. Wrong quote and selective cherry picking would be dealt with in the next few days till I get the desired result. I need some time. Ghatus (talk) 16:55, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

Mass Conversion to Islam: Theories and Protagonists- Eaton

HERE EATON TALKING ABOUT ENTIRE INDIA.Ghatus (talk) 17:18, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

Please post more.VictoriaGrayson 17:22, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

MISQUOTING OF SOURCE

THE ARTICLS CLAIMS THAT EATON WROTE - ""In 1562 Akbar abolished the practice of enslaving the families of war captives; his son Jahangir banned sending of slaves from Bengal as tribute in lieu of cash, which had been the custom since the 14th century. These measures notwithstanding, the Mughals actively participated in slave trade with Central Asia, deporting Hindu rebels and subjects who had defaulted on revenue payments, following precedents inherited from Delhi Sultanate"(P.11)

EATON DID NOT WRITE IT. HE DID NOT EVEN MENTION HINDU-MUSLIM ISSUE. I AM GIVING THE LINK OF P.11

1. Slavery and South Asian History edited by Indrani Chatterjee, Richard M. Eaton

FULL OF LIES AND HYPOCRISIES IS BEING SPREAD BY THE NAME OF OTHERS. SHAMELESS. Ghatus (talk) 17:42, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

Ok, it appears that this slavery issue doesn't have anything to do with the subject of this article. I am removing it. Cheers, Kautilya3 (talk) 18:15, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

@Ghatus: You have slightly misquoted what is actually quoted in the article. I see it on page 11. It is in a chapter written by Richard M Eaton (see top of pages 10 and 12). The context is Hindu and Muslim, see page 10 and elsewhere, with footnotes. I don't think there is a need to quote more or the entire chapter by Eaton. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 18:17, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

WHAT MISQUOTE? You have given page number and the quote in the article. Both are false. There were Hindu slaves and there were Muslim slaves. You made it a communal matter. Where is the line you have given in the source??? I am a student of History and I know it very well how to quote and how to misquote.BTW, SEE above. Eaton has explained my position very well.Ghatus (talk) 18:24, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

@Ghatus: The article's embedded quote is , not Hindu. If you acknowledge there were Hindu slaves and Muslim slaves, just remember @Kautilya3's advice: the relevant part here is "anything to do with the subject of this article", that is Hindus. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 18:34, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

What a logic! The source says that Sultan X killed Hindus and Muslims. And, you are writing that "The source says that Sultan X killed Hindus" totally omitting "Muslim" under a lame excuse of the article being on Hinduism fully knowing that it is both distortion and communalization of the source, hence,it is falsification. You have no idea on History. It seems that I wasted my time.Ghatus (talk) 18:39, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

Sarah, slavery was an integral part of the way the Afghan/Turkic societies worked. The Sultans themselves were slaves originally, and they are called "slave kings" for that reason. Their invading armies were mostly made up of slaves. It is wrong to suggest that Hindus were being singled out for slavery. - Kautilya3 (talk) 18:48, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

Historians vs Pamphleteers

Can two cent Pamphleteers like P Hardy, Hari sharma etc be taken seriously when Giant historians like RS Sharma, Eaton, Thapar etc have given a totally counter point of view????Ghatus (talk) 18:02, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

• Misplaced Pages articles that use Indian English
• Misplaced Pages former featured articles
• Featured articles that have appeared on the main page
• Featured articles that have appeared on the main page once
• All unassessed articles
• B-Class India articles
• Top-importance India articles
• B-Class India articles of Top-importance
• WikiProject India articles
• B-Class Nepal articles
• Mid-importance Nepal articles
• WikiProject Nepal articles
• B-Class Pakistan articles
• Low-importance Pakistan articles
• WikiProject Pakistan articles
• B-Class Sri Lanka articles
• Mid-importance Sri Lanka articles
• WikiProject Sri Lanka articles
• Unassessed Africa articles
• Unknown-importance Africa articles
• Unassessed Mauritius articles
• Unknown-importance Mauritius articles
• WikiProject Mauritius articles
• WikiProject Africa articles
• B-Class Indonesia articles
• Mid-importance Indonesia articles
• WikiProject Indonesia articles
• B-Class Malaysia articles
• Low-importance Malaysia articles
• WikiProject Malaysia articles
• B-Class Cambodia articles
• Low-importance Cambodia articles
• WikiProject Cambodia articles
• B-Class Afghanistan articles
• Low-importance Afghanistan articles
• WikiProject Afghanistan articles
• B-Class South America articles
• Low-importance South America articles
• B-Class Guyana articles
• Low-importance Guyana articles
• Guyana articles
• WikiProject South America articles
• B-Class Trinidad and Tobago articles
• Mid-importance Trinidad and Tobago articles
• WikiProject Trinidad and Tobago articles
• B-Class Hinduism articles
• Top-importance Hinduism articles
• B-Class Religion articles
• Top-importance Religion articles
• WikiProject Religion articles
• Misplaced Pages pages with to-do lists