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Revision as of 19:42, 6 March 2016 editBorsoka (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users44,873 edits →"province"?: ?????← Previous edit		Revision as of 19:57, 6 March 2016 edit undo123Steller (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users1,017 edits →"province"?Next edit →
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	OK, Maria Theresa recognizes that Transylvania is part of the Kingdom of Hungary, but there is no evidence that her successor, Joseph II, "the hatted king", considered the same thing. Joseph II did not have himself crowned king of Hungary so that he would not have to swear the coronation oath and be bound by the Hungarian constitution. ], please comment on this subject. ] (]) 09:32, 6 March 2016 (UTC)		OK, Maria Theresa recognizes that Transylvania is part of the Kingdom of Hungary, but there is no evidence that her successor, Joseph II, "the hatted king", considered the same thing. Joseph II did not have himself crowned king of Hungary so that he would not have to swear the coronation oath and be bound by the Hungarian constitution. ], please comment on this subject. ] (]) 09:32, 6 March 2016 (UTC)
	::Why do you think that Joseph II's ten-year-long reign determines the status of a realm which had been and was ruled for decades before and after him? Should we describe the 20th-century status of Norway based on its union with Sweden before 1905? ] (]) 19:42, 6 March 2016 (UTC)		::Why do you think that Joseph II's ten-year-long reign determines the status of a realm which had been and was ruled for decades before and after him? Should we describe the 20th-century status of Norway based on its union with Sweden before 1905? ] (]) 19:42, 6 March 2016 (UTC)
			:::We have a proof that Maria Theresa recognizes that Transylvania as a part of the Kingdom of Hungary. No proof for the other Habsburg rulers. ] (]) 19:57, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

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BoKriF (talk) 10:29, 28 November 2013 (UTC)

"province"?

According to the Art. 1741 XVIII, 1.§, Maria Theresa recognizes that Transylvania is part of the Kingdom of Hungary. "She, her heirs will possess and rule Transylvania -which belongs to the Holy Crown of Hungary- as Kings of Hungary." It doesn't mean that the territory of Transylvania was incorporated into Hungary proper, however, the Habsburgs acknowledged that it was part of the Hungarian kingdom.Fakirbakir (talk) 16:24, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

User:Fakirbakir, how do you interpret the fact that in the Austrian Constitution of 4 March 1849 the Kingdom of Hungary and the Principality of Transylvania are defined as different crown dominions (Section I, Art. I)? Also, Art. LXXIV affirms: "The internal administration and constitution of the Principality of Transylvania will be fixed by a special statute; on the principle, however, of its entire independence of Hungary, and of equal justice being done to all races inhabiting the country and in harmony with this Constitution."

The opinions ofUser:Hebel and User:KIENGIR are also welcome. 95.141.36.119 (talk) 12:57, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

Hi, Fakirbakir has right. The proper explanation:

1. Since the Habsburg-house held the Hungarian Crown, the formed the right to all lands included the Holy Crown of St. Stephen

2. After 1526, the Eastern Hungarian Kingdom and the Calvinist affiliation of Transylvania and it's Hungarians meant a clear protest against the Catholic Austrians and their aspirations. Legally two Hungarian successor states emerged after the loss of the Ottoman invasion.

3. After the Principality of Transyvlania were formed, legally still a Hungarian state (now I don't mention or details the later suzerainty/Ottoman/Habsburg affiliations)

4. The Habsburg did not stop their claims, having the crown of Royal Hungary. Since legally they hold the crown of St. Stephen, they claimed all the lands included legally as the proterty of the Crown they hold.

5. It's an evidential fact, Habsburgs/Austrians have any right to the mentioned lands (including the former successor state Principality of Transylvania) only trough the Hungarian Crown as hereditary lands of it.

6. Nobody debates the Hasburg's introduced a separate administration to Principality of Transylvania, but this does not contradict Fakirbakir's statment of legalty. (and also regarding of the Habsburg rule, there were times still the official language/Diet was Hungarian)

7. Thus: Hungary proper remained as it was, by status unchanged, Transylvania became a Habsburg dominion through the legal inheritance of the Hungarian Crown, administered separately.

8. During 1848/49, Hungary and Transylvania were re-united. After the fall of the revolution, Austria returned to the separate administration as it was.

9. Finally, after 1867, Hungary and Transylvania re-united again, as Kingdom of Hungary with it's old, historical borders became the part of Austria-Hungary as a separate state.

10. Thus Fakirbakir's introduction is fair and legal, without any contradiction of what you've mentioned.(KIENGIR (talk) 01:51, 23 December 2015 (UTC))

OK, Maria Theresa recognizes that Transylvania is part of the Kingdom of Hungary, but there is no evidence that her successor, Joseph II, "the hatted king", considered the same thing. Joseph II did not have himself crowned king of Hungary so that he would not have to swear the coronation oath and be bound by the Hungarian constitution. Rgvis, please comment on this subject. 123Steller (talk) 09:32, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

Why do you think that Joseph II's ten-year-long reign determines the status of a realm which had been and was ruled for decades before and after him? Should we describe the 20th-century status of Norway based on its union with Sweden before 1905? Borsoka (talk) 19:42, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

We have a proof that Maria Theresa recognizes that Transylvania as a part of the Kingdom of Hungary. No proof for the other Habsburg rulers. 123Steller (talk) 19:57, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

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