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Doctor Who Unassessed

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Harlan Ellison is definately a fan...

Here I quote him, the highly critical science-fictioneer:

Whilst on the lecture platform of the World Science Fiction Convention in 1979...

"Star Wars is adolescent nonsense; Close Encounters is obscurantist drivel; Star Trek can turn your brains to puree of bat guano; and the greatest science fiction series of all time is Doctor Who! And I'll take you all on, one-by-one or all in a bunch to back it up!" DrWho42 10:33, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

• Yes, Ellison also wrote the introduction to Pinnacle's US imprints of the Target novelisations, so he should definitely join the list. Martpol 09:34, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Indeed.. That's whereto I got my quote. (= Anyways, he admits to hating television and alot of its "science-fiction" save for this fine exception in the space-time wash.DrWho42 13:01, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Hasn't be subsequently claimed not to have actually written that introduction? Angmering 17:56, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Rather than...

Rather than the Save Doctor Who campaign sticker, shouldn't it be more akin to something like a Whovian dressed in fan-attire or an image of a Doctor Who convention? DrWho42 07:19, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

As "fan attire", IMHO, is jeans and t-shirt, I would prefer the latter ;-) A queue of fans waiting to get an autograph would be suitable if anyone has such a photo. —Whouk (talk) 08:35, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, although I'm image-inept, I've got some pictures from the last Gallifrey convention. I'll see if there's anything suitable and try to upload it. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 16:26, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Was there anything suitable? DrWho42 23:31, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, I went away on wikibreak and forgot about this. I've just had a look through my iPhoto collection, and although most of my photos aren't very good there are a few that might suit. I've got one of a fan in a rather good Tom Baker costume, one of Noel Clarke, Nick Briggs, Rob Shearman, Mark Gatiss and Steve Moffat at an autograph table, and one of all the Gallifrey 2006 attendees on the stage with the TARDIS and a rather tatty-looking Dalek. None are really great, but I'll upload these three and see if anyone thinks one of them is suitable. (I also have a decent-ish picture of me with the TARDIS, but that would be extremely self-indulgent.) —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 06:06, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

OK: the photos are up at Image:4thDoccostume.jpg, Image:GallifreyAutographs.jpg and Image:Gallifrey2006.jpg. If any of them look good to anyone, feel free to put them on the page. If not, I won't be hurt. (The Fourth Doctor costume one could probably be cropped a bit, as well; I left it as-is because of the convention schedule on the wall, but we probably don't need the guy in the background.) Anyway, there they are. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 06:45, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

I prefer the autograph session because it shows off fans as opposed to just one fan or just the guests. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 07:01, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

I guess I'll put that one on the page then — it can at least serve as a placeholder until we get something better. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 07:07, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Steve Martin

Hopefully, now that the relevant guideline has been pointed out, this silliness will stop.--Sean Black 11:03, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

As anyone can submit an item to be included in IMDb's Trivia sections, I don't think it could be listed as a reliable source. Jude (talk,contribs,email) 11:35, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Since I couldn't find anything in relation betwixt either Steve Martin and Doctor Who I highly doubt the validity thereof.. There should be sources cited as they do with the List of notable Star Trek fans. DrWho42 14:29, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Steve Martin is so a fan of Doctor Who. He has confessed it and it's on his website. He very rarely posts messages on his websites but he does whenever he's filming a movie to let his fans know how he's doing, but he quickly takes them down after a couple of months. Anyway when the new series was about to debut Steve Martin stated that when it comes to the debut "he was the most excited man in Hollywood". He's also posted a message that he only did Cheaper By The Dozen because as he plays Tom Baker he's so close to fulfilling the goal of so many Whovians, to play The Doctor. He also posted a message, when he was doing "Looney Tunes: Back In Action" that he insisted in having Daleks in the scene with all those aliens attacking Daffy Duck and Bugs Bunny.

It's not enough that you saw it. Other people must be able to verify it as well. Without a source other people can check it still fails Misplaced Pages:Verifiability. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 02:42, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Mmm, well, there's always Archive.org if the website Steve Martin.com no longer has the information thereon. Simply type in the site on Archive.org, and that certainly should send you places.DrWho42 02:49, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Onus of providing the cite is on him, though. Let him find it. --khaosworks (talk •

contribs) 03:10, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

"Oh no, you're the one that has a problem with imdb.com, you find it"

That's not how it works in the real world. If you add it, you provide the cite. If you can't, it goes out. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 04:32, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

"And I have, imdb.com, and you seem to have a problem with it"

Which I've already explained the problem - it's not reliable. And not just me; other people seem to agree it's not reliable. So it's on you to find something else. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 05:42, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Well anyone can put a bit of trivia up on imdb.com but they have it get it approved by the webmasters or mistresses first. And it takes a maximum of 28 days, and anytime someone submits something for imdb.com it states if it's not up by 28 days it means it's unnotable or THEY DIDN'T FIND PROOF that the statement is true. They RESEARCH --DaffyDuck619 (contribs)

That didn't stop them from being scammed into thinking Davros was going to show up in The Parting of the Ways, so I don't think much of their fact-checking skills when it comes to Doctor Who. If Steve Martin is such a huge Doctor Who fan, surely it must have been mentioned elsewhere? Even reporters are supposed to look for two sources before printing a fact. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 08:09, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

For what it's worth, I submitted a comment/query to the IMDb.--Sean Black 22:23, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Anything insofar arrived, Sean? DrWho42 00:23, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Male/female ratio

From the episode Rose...

# Clive's wife Caroline (who is not mentioned by name on screen) shows surprise that a "she" would read a website about the Doctor. This is a sly aside, noting the widely-held misconception that there are extremely few female Doctor Who fans. (However, statistics soon revealed that the male/female ratio for Doctor Who's viewing audience is roughly 1:1.)

Could anyone verify that supposed "fact"? DrWho42 17:13, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Even if the audience is split 50:50, that's not the same as evidence that fandom is split in the same proportion... —Whouk (talk) 08:12, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Whobies

Whobies is a term I came up with to describe new fans of the show. Is that worthy of mention in the article? - John R. Sellers 00:52, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

I should mention that I got that term from another member of the Ex Isle Forums in this thread..."Whobie-Noobie". I just shortened it. - John R. Sellers 02:31, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't think this sniglet is notable enough unfortunately..

Oh well. Worth a shot. -- John R. Sellers 04:29, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Although I do remember that a new fan to Battlestar Galactica is generally called a "nugget", but that's an entirely different reality altogether.. (BSG fans are called Galacticans though..)

I believe this* guide to be rather helpful for the new fans nevertheless...

DrWho42 16:18, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

*The Beginner's Guide to Doctor Who

Jack Nicholson and Prince Charles

In 1989 when Doctor Who was going off the air, Steve Martin went on an Australian variety show called "Hey! Hey! It's Saturday" and sung a song like Adam Sandler's Hannukah song, only with celebrity Whovians instead of celebrity Jews. Two of those names he listed was Prince Charles and Jack Nicholson.

That kinda sounds like a conspiracy theory if it wasn't about Doctor Who.... DrWho42 03:13, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Alright Whovians we need to work together

Yesterday I tried starting a new category, Celebrity Whovians. However they were constantly deleted as most of them were not properly cited or irrelevant (hey if celebrity vegeratians is relevent enough for a category then so is celebrity whovians). So Whovians, we need to work together to make this category as big as the LGBT section, so those who contributed to the celebrity section I need to know the links (well I don't need to know those who keep deleting the section need to know) to where it states they are Whovians. Your fellow Whovian DaffyDuck619

All unreferenced additions are subject to removal, as per Misplaced Pages policies on Original Research, Reliable sources and Verifiability. CovenantD 00:29, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Well, Daffy is going to say I'm biased, but for what it's worth, a large number of those that he's bunged into the Celebrity Whovians category, like Steve Martin, Robin Williams, Jack Nicholson, Johnny Depp, etc. are of dubious verifiability at best. Doctor Who has been around for a long time, and just because someone says he likes the series doesn't automatically make him a fan. People like Steven Moffat, Mark Gattis, David Walliams, though, are unequivocally in the fan category because they have actually written for the series or about the series, and believe me, Moffat can uber-geek about Who with the best of them. So, no - if Daffy wants to assert these things, he needs to provide verifiable and reliable sources. --01:47, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Something Daffy has problems with, to judge by many of the article talk pages and hir own. CovenantD 02:02, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

And now we need to work together to keep the category alive, if celebrities being vegeratians is notable for a category (what celebrities like to eat), if celebrities being Star Trek fans is notable enough for a category, then so is the category of celebrities being Doctor Who fans.

Plus you've all seen David Walliams love for Doctor Who, to him being a Whovian is like being a Jew, a Catholic, a Budhist, or following a religion and Matt Lucas has described it ALMOST being like that (he didn't want to disgrace his heritage by saying it is) Now I don't know how to vote but I'm pretty sure you do, so come on, help keep this category alive. Your fellow Whovian DaffyDuck619

• We should insert as many or more citations and references as List of notable Star Trek fans does. DrWho42 05:29, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree that finding citations is the key. I noticed the mention of the wrestler Jericho on the Outpost Gallifrey News Page (apparently he mentioned his fondness for the series in a recent installment of I Love the '70s), and have added him to the list with that citation. I don't have the time to find citations for everybody, but it's not an impossible task: for example, David Beckham could be cited with the news item from last year about Posh buying him The Shooting Scripts as a Christmas present. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 08:14, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Celebrity fans

I have reservations as to whether we should even bother noting celebrity fans at all. Many famous people are fans of various shows: why is this particularly notable in a general sense? Shouldn't this article really be about Doctor Who fandom rather than celebrity fans? --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 02:04, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Contribution

From spscriptorium.com "Dr. Who has two episodes people could be reminded of. The first has to do with the Daleks (Gelgameks), the second with the planet of spiders (the Queen Spider)." That's the link I provided yet khasworks stated he couldn't find it, well there it is in black and white, plain as day, clear as crystal. Proof that not only Matt Parker's and Trey Stone's work was influenced by Doctor Who, proof that they are Whovians BUT khasworks does not want me contributing. Well Khaosworks I've got news for you, there I can contribute and if you don't like it piss off —The preceding unsigned comment was added by DaffyDuck619 (talk • contribs) 01:12, August 27, 2006 (UTC)

Daffy, I don't think it's ever been about you. It's about the edits which you are providing without reliable sources. You need to be specific when you link to a page: for example, when you gave http://www.spscriptorium.com/ScriptGuideIndex.htm as a citation, that was not helpful because that link goes to the front page of the site. People can't be expected to search through transcripts of every South Park episode. And your comment above isn't helpful either, because it doesn't let us know which episode or page you're quoting from. It's in black and white, but nobody except you knows exactly where it's from. It's just not good enough.

Also, if you're providing a link to back up a claim that an individual is a Doctor Who fan, please be sure that it actually says that. You linked to http://www.physics.mun.ca/%7Esps/serials/tvm.html as supporting the notion that Steven Spielberg wanted to direct the TV movie, or another Doctor Who movie. The page has moved to here, and although it says that Spielberg was involved in vetoing John Leekley's script, it doesn't say anything about Spielberg wanting to direct.

Finally, we've been over why IMDb is not a reliable source for trivia of this kind. IMDb's staff check submissions of credits, but the trivia and biography sections are frequently error-laden, and not acceptable for Misplaced Pages's purposes.

Khaosworks is enforcing Misplaced Pages policies. He is not editing in opposition to you — if you can provide specific, reliable sources for the information you want to add, it will be retained. However, if you continue to add the same information with erroneous, unspecified links or no links at all, it will be removed. Also, please remember Misplaced Pages's policies about civility (good) and personal attacks (bad). Come on, it's not that difficult. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 05:52, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

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