| Revision as of 02:21, 3 April 2017 editDicklyon (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Rollbackers477,756 edits →Requested move 2 April 2017← Previous edit | Revision as of 04:24, 3 April 2017 edit undoHerostratus (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, File movers, New page reviewers, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers53,322 edits opposeNext edit → | ||
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| ::The way it is written it over-dramatizes it, comparing it to various real-world things tha are ugh more traumatic than being blocked on a website, and the author, instead of commenting here, removed an attempt to add some balance to it. ] (]) 02:17, 3 April 2017 (UTC) | ::The way it is written it over-dramatizes it, comparing it to various real-world things tha are ugh more traumatic than being blocked on a website, and the author, instead of commenting here, removed an attempt to add some balance to it. ] (]) 02:17, 3 April 2017 (UTC) | ||
| :::Yes, I saw that. I'm perhaps luckier than you in not having had such a dramatic life. Still, it's a point worth making, and maybe there are better ways to tune it up than the way you did. ] (]) 02:20, 3 April 2017 (UTC) | :::Yes, I saw that. I'm perhaps luckier than you in not having had such a dramatic life. Still, it's a point worth making, and maybe there are better ways to tune it up than the way you did. ] (]) 02:20, 3 April 2017 (UTC) | ||
| * '''Oppose''' and stop it ] and instead calm down take a look at at the bigger picture. | |||
| :Yes I gather that you're no stranger to street. Me too. But a lot of people are. Allow me to introduce you to X, a person I know well. Throughout her academic career, she got one "B". She didn't deserve it (professor didn't like her because she was too talented) and was plenty upset. As to the rest -- Dean's List, summa, and so forth. Never a traffic citation, and so forth. Successful career, valued and lauded professional. Doesn't drink to excess, doesn't smoke, doesn't cheat, and never did. And so forth. "Never being reprimanded let alone punished" is an essential element of X's persona, and she's worked hard to make that a reality. | |||
| :''This is common''. You need to get it in your head that this is common. I've know ''lots'' of people who are more or less like this -- maybe not to the that degree, but more or less. A lot of people are like this. People who have advanced degrees -- which is kind of the people we mostly want to attract and keep -- a lot of them are more or less like that. Most people where I live go to church -- strike that, ''everyone'' goes to church -- and they don't hang around in bars or whatever ''and never did''. You can call these people goody-two-shoes or whatever and I don't care ''as long as you acknowledge that they are real people and they exist'' and in multitudes. They, not wharf rats and hopheads and dropouts, are the default and the majority of people. | |||
| :You have an overly harsh and punitive attitude. Fine, I can't change that, but what I can do is call you on your incorrect behavior here. Upon encountering this page, if you don't agree with it (and fine, that's your perfect right), you are entitled to write your own essay -- you can call it "You can't build an encyclopedia with snowflakes" or whatever -- and link to it from this page. You are not entitled to vandalize this one, which is what you did -- man, you can't add a section to an essay that contradicts the nutshell and the basic thrust of the essay. I can't go over to the essay ] and add a section to the effect of "On the other hand, forget what you just read and ignore everything else in this essay. If you have a band, you should write an article about it, because our mission is or should be to document the artistic life of the world, including every band that exists" or whatever. | |||
| :On being told by me that you can't do that, you're now having a tantrum and suggesting moving it out of main essay space. Stop it. | |||
| :I don't own the essay, and people who are ''friendly to the general thrust'' are welcome to change it. There's seven bullet points, maybe that dilutes the message and there should be five (or nine), or wording changes, even major ones, can be made (or suggested, but that's not necessary), as long as the intend and effect is to strengthen or clarify the thrust of the essay: "It hurts to be blocked!... There's an emotional toll... many people are not used to being reprimanded let alone punished, especially not as adults... and we should keep this in mind". | |||
| :You, ], ''could'' engage in this work, but since you don't agree with the general thrust of the essay, then why would you want to make it stronger? It would probably be better to leave this work to others. ] (]) 04:23, 3 April 2017 (UTC) | |||
Revision as of 04:24, 3 April 2017
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I gues I've lived a bit more than some
Since all but the first two things have happened to me at some point. And I've been blocked for a spurious reason. I'm still alive and emotionally stable and still edit Misplaced Pages. Beeblebrox (talk) 20:56, 16 January 2017 (UTC)
- Since this is now in project space, let's just go for it and assume most people have a perfect life and have never experienced any kind of adversity in their normal lives and I'm just a mutant. Here's some more from my own illustrious life we might as well add if that is the supposition of this essay:
- Divorced
- assauted by random strangers apparently because I was the wrong color in that place and time (three times)
- evicted for bogus reasons (twice)
- terrifying car accidents (four)
- cheated on by siginifcant other (not sure how many times, but all from the same....person)
- Degrading phone conversations with collection agents
- Insulted and degraded for basically no reason while working in the service sector (too many times to count)
Let me know if you need more, I'm sure I could come up with a few... Beeblebrox (talk) 06:35, 17 January 2017 (UTC)
- OK, I was about to write a touchy-feely post about how Beebs is good people but he's wrong ;) People do sometimes feel hurt when a community they've invested time and energy in seems to be rejecting them. Surely we've all managed to overreact to something objectively minor at some point in our lives, possibly as a result of some of those other things on Beebs' list? ...But then I got to the part of this essay that says
being blocked is the worst punishment they've ever had in their adult life
. Which is just a tad over the top. Or maybe directed at those who've just turned 18. This essay has good insight to offer, but exaggerations like that undermine its credibility. - I'm also not quite sold on the idea that new users are disproportionately distressed by being blocked. Anecdotal experience suggests that most new users will accept a reasonable explanation, even if they're a little jarred by the experience. On the other hand, established editors often feel frustrated, hurt, and alienated when they get blocked for reasons they feel are disrespectful of their contributions, and those relationships can be much harder to repair. Opabinia regalis (talk) 08:58, 17 January 2017 (UTC)
- The only analogy that I think makes any sense at all is being kicked out of a bar or restaurant. (And that one actually hasn't happened to me although I have been cut off once or twice) There's lots of reasons a person can be kicked out, and in most cases it's no big deal if the come back tommorow and don't repeat the behavior from the night before, but there are a few things that are more serious and will get you kicked out for good. It's not akin to a fistfight, being arrested, sued, etc, in any reasonable way. You're being kicked out, not locked up. And not even kicked all the way out, you can still look at it all you want. Perhaps now that this is in project space it will be modified with more realistic examples. Beeblebrox (talk) 18:43, 17 January 2017 (UTC)
- That doesn't quite work - at a bar your role is as a paying customer first, and only secondarily (if at all) as a member of a community with a common purpose. More like getting asked not to come to next week's trivia night. Even if you know damn well you got too drunk and yelled about an answer that wasn't accepted but was totally right, dammit and generally acted like a jerk, it still stings to be told a group you're invested in belonging to doesn't want you around. Opabinia regalis (talk) 19:38, 17 January 2017 (UTC)
- Being sanctioned by a group one is invested in being a part of is how that group maintains its norms and social integrity. Special snoflakism ultimately means no one is held accountable for their behavior until it becomes intolerable. Everyone screws up and a community can either gently bring them in line with its norms or it can become a breeding ground for assholes and egotists. You need to screw up pretty badly and respond poorly to lesser attempts to bring your behavior in line with community norms to get even a moderate term block. A person who is incapable of conforming to the minimal rules/norms of Misplaced Pages and incapable of adjusting/moderating their behavior when the issue is pointed out to them and has so little experience of life that they have never been called out or corrected is probably not mature enough to interact collaboratively with adults. Yes, admins need to consider that there is a person with feelings and possibly a very different world view, values and life experiences but this empathy should not be an excuse to allow problematic behavior to continue uncorrected. Jbh 15:18, 19 January 2017 (UTC)
- That doesn't quite work - at a bar your role is as a paying customer first, and only secondarily (if at all) as a member of a community with a common purpose. More like getting asked not to come to next week's trivia night. Even if you know damn well you got too drunk and yelled about an answer that wasn't accepted but was totally right, dammit and generally acted like a jerk, it still stings to be told a group you're invested in belonging to doesn't want you around. Opabinia regalis (talk) 19:38, 17 January 2017 (UTC)
- The only analogy that I think makes any sense at all is being kicked out of a bar or restaurant. (And that one actually hasn't happened to me although I have been cut off once or twice) There's lots of reasons a person can be kicked out, and in most cases it's no big deal if the come back tommorow and don't repeat the behavior from the night before, but there are a few things that are more serious and will get you kicked out for good. It's not akin to a fistfight, being arrested, sued, etc, in any reasonable way. You're being kicked out, not locked up. And not even kicked all the way out, you can still look at it all you want. Perhaps now that this is in project space it will be modified with more realistic examples. Beeblebrox (talk) 18:43, 17 January 2017 (UTC)
Requested move 2 April 2017
Template:Requested move/dated is not for moves from user space, see Misplaced Pages:Articles for creation (use {{subst:submit}} instead), or move it yourself
 | It has been proposed in this section that User:Herostratus/Well jeez be renamed and moved to User:Herostratus/Being blocked hurts. A bot will list this discussion on the requested moves current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil. Please use {{subst:requested move}}. Do not use {{requested move/dated}} directly. Links: current log • target log • direct move |
Misplaced Pages:Being blocked hurts → User:Herostratus/Being blocked hurts – Essays that represent extreme minority viewpoints and seem to be owned by a particular user belong in userspace, not project space. Beeblebrox (talk) 23:42, 2 April 2017 (UTC)
- Oppose – how is this a minority viewpoint? Surely we should all agree that being blocked hurts, especially if done without warning, without clear explanation, etc. Dicklyon (talk) 23:59, 2 April 2017 (UTC)
- The way it is written it over-dramatizes it, comparing it to various real-world things tha are ugh more traumatic than being blocked on a website, and the author, instead of commenting here, removed an attempt to add some balance to it. Beeblebrox (talk) 02:17, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
- Yes, I saw that. I'm perhaps luckier than you in not having had such a dramatic life. Still, it's a point worth making, and maybe there are better ways to tune it up than the way you did. Dicklyon (talk) 02:20, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
- The way it is written it over-dramatizes it, comparing it to various real-world things tha are ugh more traumatic than being blocked on a website, and the author, instead of commenting here, removed an attempt to add some balance to it. Beeblebrox (talk) 02:17, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
- Oppose and stop it User:Beeblebrox and instead calm down take a look at at the bigger picture.
- Yes I gather that you're no stranger to street. Me too. But a lot of people are. Allow me to introduce you to X, a person I know well. Throughout her academic career, she got one "B". She didn't deserve it (professor didn't like her because she was too talented) and was plenty upset. As to the rest -- Dean's List, summa, and so forth. Never a traffic citation, and so forth. Successful career, valued and lauded professional. Doesn't drink to excess, doesn't smoke, doesn't cheat, and never did. And so forth. "Never being reprimanded let alone punished" is an essential element of X's persona, and she's worked hard to make that a reality.
- This is common. You need to get it in your head that this is common. I've know lots of people who are more or less like this -- maybe not to the that degree, but more or less. A lot of people are like this. People who have advanced degrees -- which is kind of the people we mostly want to attract and keep -- a lot of them are more or less like that. Most people where I live go to church -- strike that, everyone goes to church -- and they don't hang around in bars or whatever and never did. You can call these people goody-two-shoes or whatever and I don't care as long as you acknowledge that they are real people and they exist and in multitudes. They, not wharf rats and hopheads and dropouts, are the default and the majority of people.
- You have an overly harsh and punitive attitude. Fine, I can't change that, but what I can do is call you on your incorrect behavior here. Upon encountering this page, if you don't agree with it (and fine, that's your perfect right), you are entitled to write your own essay -- you can call it "You can't build an encyclopedia with snowflakes" or whatever -- and link to it from this page. You are not entitled to vandalize this one, which is what you did -- man, you can't add a section to an essay that contradicts the nutshell and the basic thrust of the essay. I can't go over to the essay Misplaced Pages:No one cares about your garage band and add a section to the effect of "On the other hand, forget what you just read and ignore everything else in this essay. If you have a band, you should write an article about it, because our mission is or should be to document the artistic life of the world, including every band that exists" or whatever.
- On being told by me that you can't do that, you're now having a tantrum and suggesting moving it out of main essay space. Stop it.
- I don't own the essay, and people who are friendly to the general thrust are welcome to change it. There's seven bullet points, maybe that dilutes the message and there should be five (or nine), or wording changes, even major ones, can be made (or suggested, but that's not necessary), as long as the intend and effect is to strengthen or clarify the thrust of the essay: "It hurts to be blocked!... There's an emotional toll... many people are not used to being reprimanded let alone punished, especially not as adults... and we should keep this in mind".
- You, User:Beeblebrox, could engage in this work, but since you don't agree with the general thrust of the essay, then why would you want to make it stronger? It would probably be better to leave this work to others. Herostratus (talk) 04:23, 3 April 2017 (UTC)