Misplaced Pages

:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement: Difference between revisions - Misplaced Pages

Article snapshot taken from Wikipedia with creative commons attribution-sharealike license. Give it a read and then ask your questions in the chat. We can research this topic together.
< Misplaced Pages:Arbitration | Requests Browse history interactively← Previous editNext edit →Content deleted Content addedVisualWikitext
Revision as of 21:48, 6 June 2019 editTonyBallioni (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, IP block exemptions, Rollbackers49,329 edits →Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Tryptofish: I'm an idiot← Previous edit Revision as of 03:44, 7 June 2019 edit undoLowercase sigmabot III (talk | contribs)Bots, Template editors2,302,475 editsm Archiving 1 discussion(s) to Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive252) (botNext edit →
Line 15: Line 15:
}} }}
{{TOC left|limit=2}}{{clear}} {{TOC left|limit=2}}{{clear}}

==Grayfell==
{{hat|Not actionable. ] 04:26, 30 May 2019 (UTC)}}
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>

===Request concerning Grayfell===

; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Sinuthius}} 19:42, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Grayfell}}<p>{{ds/log|Grayfell}}
<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->

;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ] and ]
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->

; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->
#, - Adding an out-of-place comment in the bibliography of the ] article, based on a false statement about the identity of the publisher of Woodley's monograph "The Rhythm of the West". Its actual publisher is given at .
# - The same as the previous two edits, but with the correct publisher. However, there is another problem: the cited SPLC source does not mention Woodley, and no reliable sources have directly criticized Woodley for using a low-quality publisher for this monograph. Note that on a different BLP article, Grayfell had removed positive sources with the that the only sources that could be used are those that specifically mention the article's subject.
# - Original synthesis, implying that the author of this book used his position on the journal's editorial board to secure a positive review, although no sources make that argument. Grayfell's only source for this statement was the journal's editorial board page on the relevant date at archive.org.
#, , - Similar to the previous example, on the ] article.
#, - These edits cite a reliable source, but misrepresent what the source says. Grayfell's edits say that Woodley "helped to organize the London Conference on Intelligence, a conference on eugenics secretly held at University College London", but what the says is that Woodley attended the London Conference on Intelligence, and helped to organize conferences for the International Society for Intelligence Research. is a much more respectable conference than the London Conference on Intelligence, so claiming that Woodley helped to organize LCI rather than ISIR is a severe misrepresentation.
# - After his change to the Woodley article was reverted a second time, Grayfell changed "helped to organize" to "participated in", but it's still inappropriate to state in Misplaced Pages's voice that eugenics was a focus of the conference. have mentioned that only two of the conference's 75 presentations were about eugenics, and this was previously pointed out to Grayfell .

;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
<!-- The following are examples. Write "Not applicable" or similar if this is not a discretionary sanctions enforcement request. Otherwise, fill out at least one line that applies and delete the rest. If you wish to request discretionary sanctions but none of these situations apply, issue an alert yourself instead of making this request, see the link above. -->
*Alerted about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months:

; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
<!-- Add any further comment here -->
I am making this report following the discussion , at the suggestion of an editor who can't make a report because he doesn't have an account. Grayfell has a pattern of making edits that violate the strict sourcing requirements for statements about living people, particularly on articles about living people related to the race and intelligence controversy. Aside from the examples given above, a longer-term example of the problem is his pattern of edits to the ] article:

On , Grayfell heavily modified the article and added several negative statements. The following month, the article was tagged as an attack page. In response to the tag, two editors, ] and ], attempted to restore balance to the article. Both of these users' changes were subsequently undone by Grayfell, restoring the article to the version that had been tagged as an attack page. From August 2018 until the end of last year, Grayfell also reverted seven other edits by various users attempting to correct the same issues.

On 6 May, the article was tagged as an attack page a second time. The second tagging led to the article being , and to an between Grayfell and an IP editor. Based on the IP's of the article's sources, a large portion of the negative material Grayfell had been restoring was cited to sources that do not mention Meisenberg, despite Grayfell's on the Seymour Itzkoff article that sources must mention the article's subject. This discussion led to the material in the Meisenberg article finally being removed without Grayfell restoring it, after having stayed in that article for almost a year.

] says, "contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced should be removed immediately and without discussion", but Grayfell is making that policy impossible to follow with his habit of repeatedly restoring this material when other users attempt to remove it. According to the IP's statements and , the material added by Grayfell has had real-life consequences for the subject of one of these articles. This situation seems to recur on a different article every few weeks, so I request that admins please find a long-term solution to the problem.

; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:Grayfell&diff=899399167&oldid=899384616

<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
===Discussion concerning Grayfell===
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. <br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>
====Statement by Grayfell====

Line by line:
*For the first two: One book's own contributors lists Scott-Townsend Publishers. According to Scott Townsend Publisher's website, it is the publishing division of the "Council for Social and Economic Studies", which is puts out the ]. All of these are part of ]'s publishing outfit. I maintain that as an encyclopedia, we should indicate to researchers when they are dipping into the fringes. The SPLC Pearson's activity, if that was an issue. Other editors feel it's sufficient indicate this in links to the articles on these publishers.
*For the frequency of favorable reviews in ''Intelligence'', the otherwise respectable outlet's reputation as a safe-harbor for this is well-documented by sources, specifically regarding Lynn and Meisenberg.
*I did make an error in saying that Woodley helped organize the London conference, which as mentioned, I corrected. As for the source which mentions that "only two" of the conference's presentations were about eugenics, this is the same letter, written by attendees, which is already mentioned in the article. This letter was organized by Woodley (again published in ''Intelligence'') in response to the multiple reliable sources which discussed the conference's focus on race and intelligence. Calling this conference "controversial" seems confusing and euphemistic to me, and since many sources have discussed its connection to eugenics, or even just called it a "eugenics conference",(etc) I think it's appropriate to use plain language to explain the issue.
*As for Meisenberg, see ]. Using the "additional comments" section as an expansion pack to the 500 char limit makes it tedious for me to respond to any specific issue without giving it more weight than is justified. If there are any questions, I will answer them.
] (]) 20:46, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

:*Response to the IP: Your insistence that an account would be is starting to ring hollow. At this point I think that by avoiding making an account, you are avoiding scrutiny and accountability.
::I do not know why Meisenberg stopped working at that school, or at Mankind. Provide sources on the article's talk page, please.
::The behavior you are describing from others falls under ] and ]. Regardless, reliable sources still overrule first-hand knowledge.
::While it may be convenient to make me a boogieman, several of the people you mention did not revert me, and were not reverted by me. You have also left-out many of the people who have supported these changes. Notifying sympathetic editors while ignoring unsympathetic ones seems to be part of a , but it's ]ing regardless.
::If you are satisfied with the current status of Meisenberg's article... what, exactly, is the problem here? I recognize that consensus has led to the current wording, even if I do not fully agree with it. I could go into why, but this isn't the place for that, is it?
::Regardless, Meisenberg placed his name on the letterheads of these controversial organizations. As an encyclopedia, we must what reflect what sources say about his actions, and the consequences of his actions. In this situation, ignoring sources and favoring euphemistic language would be a form of advocacy. That is no more appropriate than what you are accusing me of doing. ] (]) 23:59, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

:*Pudeo: These unsupported aspersions are insulting to everyone here. ] (]) 23:59, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

====Statement by Ahrtoodeetoo====
*I'm not familiar with all of the policy issues involved, but this request should be closed immediately because it seems inappropriate for one editor to proxy for another here. <s>Among the underlying issues is the fact that {{u|Awilley}} believes (or at least ) that the IP editor Sinuthius is proxying for has been site banned.</S> No comment on the merits. ] <small>(])</small> 19:56, 29 May 2019 (UTC)
::I struck my comment about possible block evasion. The IP is correct, the one whom Awilley accused of block evasion was someone from Los Angeles, while this one is from the Knoxville, Tennessee area. Sorry for the mix-up. ] <small>(])</small> 23:29, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

====Statement by IP editor====

I'm the IP editor who requested for this report to be made. (Note that the IP mentioned by R2, who was accused of being a banned editor, was a different IP editor located several hundred miles from me.) There is an important reason I think this issue goes beyond a content dispute. Even in cases where Grayfell's views about sourcing are opposed by almost everyone else (as they have been on the Woodley article), his practice of restoring his changes whenever they're undone makes it extremely difficult to undo them permanently.

On the ] article, Grayfell restored his material after it was removed by six different users: ], ], ], ], ], and ]. In his response above, Grayfell justified his actions by linking to an investigation where one of these users, Yucahu, was eventually blocked as a sockpuppet. None of the others appear to have been sockpuppets.

Above Grayfell stated, "several of the people you mention did not revert me, and were not reverted by me", so here's a summary with diffs. , . , . , . , . , , , , , . , , , .

Based on my discussions about this article with Dr. Meisenberg, I think I know why so many new users showed up on the article during that period. After Meisenberg lost his job because of the material Grayfell added to that article, the effects that this article had on him in real life became widely-known among Meisenberg's colleagues and former students, and several of them made attempts at bringing the article into compliance with BLP policy. However, all of those attempts were foiled by Grayfell, until I finally accomplished it earlier this month.

One of the arbitration rulings linked to by Sinuthius says: ''Misplaced Pages articles that present material about living people can affect their subjects' lives. Misplaced Pages editors who deal with these articles have a responsibility to consider the legal and ethical implications of their actions when doing so. In cases where the appropriateness of material regarding a living person is questioned, the rule of thumb should be "do no harm." '''This means, among other things, that such material should be removed until a decision to include it is reached, rather than being included until a decision to remove it is reached.'''''

What happened on the Meisenberg article seems to be exactly the situation that this ruling was designed to prevent. Grayfell has not acknowledged any problem with his actions on that article, and has continued to make similar edits to other BLP articles over the past month, so it's almost inevitable that another living person will eventually be harmed in a similar way. It will be a major failure on Misplaced Pages's part if nothing is done to prevent that. ] (]) 00:48, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

==== Statement by Pudeo ====
There are suspicions that the POV-pushing Grayfell is engaging in coordinated off-site. Check this comparing Grayfell with a self-identified Gamergate SPA who wants to put other editors "]". These articles are the same "cultural war" topics that the ] was about. --] (]) 23:08, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

==== Statement by Beyond My Ken ====
Per the completely unusupported ] in the above statement by Pudeo, obviously meant to muddy the waters and poison the well, Pudeo should be sanctioned, or, at the very least, warned. ] (]) 01:30, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
*Also, I note that in filing this report, the OP is essentially acting as a proxy for the IP user ], as can be seen in on ]. ] (]) 01:36, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

====Statement by NorthBySouthBaranof====
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->
Interesting that Pudeo refers to purported "suspicions" of off-site coordination as if they are some known quantity, without providing a link to any on-wiki discussions of these purported "suspicions." Is Pudeo's post itself an off-site-coordinated attempt to smear Grayfell? ] (]) 03:31, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

====Statement by (username)====
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->
*

===Result concerning Grayfell===
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
*Report is a bit long for my liking, but at a glance, seems worth looking into. I await other respondents. ] 20:00, 29 May 2019 (UTC)
:*Beyond My Ken is right. Pudeo, please refrain from casting ]. That isn't gonna be tolerated. ] 01:33, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
::*"At the suggestion of" is not exactly acting as a proxy, but it is disconcerting. ] 01:42, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
:::*<s>Swarm, is the notification, is it not?</s> Oh an ''alert''. ] 03:22, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
*I've not read the "Additional comments" because they exceed the character limit. Based on the reported diffs, this looks primarily like a content dispute to me, which is not for AE to resolve. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 21:13, 29 May 2019 (UTC)
*Without reviewing the merits of the complaint, is not a valid notification, and Grayfell was not issued a formal notification. Unless there's something else that satisfies the awareness criteria, this will not be actionable. ] <sup>]</sup> 03:18, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
*Due to the lack of notice, I agree with closing this complaint with no action. This appears to be a dispute about ]. None of the participants have so far been notified of that case in the manner required by ]. ] (]) 04:19, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
{{hab}}


==Volunteer Marek== ==Volunteer Marek==

Revision as of 03:44, 7 June 2019

"WP:AE" redirects here. For the guideline regarding the letters æ or ae, see MOS:LIGATURE. For the automated editing program, see WP:AutoEd.


Noticeboards
Misplaced Pages's centralized discussion, request, and help venues. For a listing of ongoing discussions and current requests, see the dashboard. For a related set of forums which do not function as noticeboards see formal review processes.
General
Articles,
content
Page handling
User conduct
Other
Category:Misplaced Pages noticeboards

    Click here to add a new enforcement request
    For appeals: create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}
    See also: Logged AE sanctions

    Important informationShortcuts

    Please use this page only to:

    • request administrative action against editors violating a remedy (not merely a principle) or an injunction in an Arbitration Committee decision, or a contentious topic restriction imposed by an administrator,
    • request contentious topic restrictions against previously alerted editors who engage in misconduct in a topic area designated as a contentious topic,
    • request page restrictions (e.g. revert restrictions) on pages that are being disrupted in topic areas designated as contentious topics, or
    • appeal arbitration enforcement actions (including contentious topic restrictions) to uninvolved administrators.

    For all other problems, including content disagreements or the enforcement of community-imposed sanctions, please use the other fora described in the dispute resolution process. To appeal Arbitration Committee decisions, please use the clarification and amendment noticeboard.

    Only autoconfirmed users may file enforcement requests here; requests filed by IPs or accounts less than four days old or with less than 10 edits will be removed. All users are welcome to comment on requests except where doing so would violate an active restriction (such as an extended-confirmed restriction). If you make an enforcement request or comment on a request, your own conduct may be examined as well, and you may be sanctioned for it. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. (Word Count Tool) Statements must be made in separate sections. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as personal attacks, or groundless or vexatious complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.

    To make an enforcement request, click on the link above this box and supply all required information. Incomplete requests may be ignored. Requests reporting diffs older than one week may be declined as stale. To appeal a contentious topic restriction or other enforcement decision, please create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}.

    Appeals and administrator modifications of contentious topics restrictions

    The Arbitration Committee procedures relating to modifications of contentious topic restrictions state the following:

    All contentious topic restrictions (and logged warnings) may be appealed. Only the restricted editor may appeal an editor restriction. Any editor may appeal a page restriction.

    The appeal process has three possible stages. An editor appealing a restriction may:

    1. ask the administrator who first made the contentious topic restrictions (the "enforcing administrator") to reconsider their original decision;
    2. request review at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") or at the administrators' noticeboard ("AN"); and
    3. submit a request for amendment ("ARCA"). If the editor is blocked, the appeal may be made by email.

    Appeals submitted at AE or AN must be submitted using the applicable template.

    A rough consensus of administrators at AE or editors at AN may specify a period of up to one year during which no appeals (other than an appeal to ARCA) may be submitted.

    Changing or revoking a contentious topic restriction

    An administrator may only modify or revoke a contentious topic restriction if a formal appeal is successful or if one of the following exceptions applies:

    • The administrator who originally imposed the contentious topic restriction (the "enforcing administrator") affirmatively consents to the change, or is no longer an administrator; or
    • The contentious topic restriction was imposed (or last renewed) more than a year ago and:
      • the restriction was imposed by a single administrator, or
      • the restriction was an indefinite block.

    A formal appeal is successful only if one of the following agrees with revoking or changing the contentious topic restriction:

    • a clear consensus of uninvolved administrators at AE,
    • a clear consensus of uninvolved editors at AN,
    • a majority of the Arbitration Committee, acting through a motion at ARCA.

    Any administrator who revokes or changes a contentious topic restriction out of process (i.e. without the above conditions being met) may, at the discretion of the Arbitration Committee, be desysopped.

    Standard of review
    On community review

    Uninvolved administrators at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") and uninvolved editors at the administrators' noticeboard ("AN") should revoke or modify a contentious topic restriction on appeal if:

    1. the action was inconsistent with the contentious topics procedure or applicable policy (i.e. the action was out of process),
    2. the action was not reasonably necessary to prevent damage or disruption when first imposed, or
    3. the action is no longer reasonably necessary to prevent damage or disruption.
    On Arbitration Committee review

    Arbitrators hearing an appeal at a request for amendment ("ARCA") will generally overturn a contentious topic restriction only if:

    1. the action was inconsistent with the contentious topics procedure or applicable policy (i.e. the action was out of process),
    2. the action represents an unreasonable exercise of administrative enforcement discretion, or
    3. compelling circumstances warrant the full Committee's action.
    1. The administrator may indicate consent at any time before, during, or after imposition of the restriction.
    2. This criterion does not apply if the original action was imposed as a result of rough consensus at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard, as there would be no single enforcing administrator.
    Appeals and administrator modifications of non-contentious topics sanctions

    The Arbitration Committee procedures relating to modifications and appeals state:

    Appeals by sanctioned editors

    Appeals may be made only by the editor under sanction and only for a currently active sanction. Requests for modification of page restrictions may be made by any editor. The process has three possible stages (see "Important notes" below). The editor may:

    1. ask the enforcing administrator to reconsider their original decision;
    2. request review at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") or at the administrators’ noticeboard ("AN"); and
    3. submit a request for amendment at the amendment requests page ("ARCA"). If the editor is blocked, the appeal may be made by email through Special:EmailUser/Arbitration Committee (or, if email access is revoked, to arbcom-en@wikimedia.org).
    Modifications by administrators

    No administrator may modify or remove a sanction placed by another administrator without:

    1. the explicit prior affirmative consent of the enforcing administrator; or
    2. prior affirmative agreement for the modification at (a) AE or (b) AN or (c) ARCA (see "Important notes" below).

    Administrators modifying sanctions out of process may at the discretion of the committee be desysopped.

    Nothing in this section prevents an administrator from replacing an existing sanction issued by another administrator with a new sanction if fresh misconduct has taken place after the existing sanction was applied.

    Administrators are free to modify sanctions placed by former administrators – that is, editors who do not have the administrator permission enabled (due to a temporary or permanent relinquishment or desysop) – without regard to the requirements of this section. If an administrator modifies a sanction placed by a former administrator, the administrator who made the modification becomes the "enforcing administrator". If a former administrator regains the tools, the provisions of this section again apply to their unmodified enforcement actions.

    Important notes:

    1. For a request to succeed, either
    (i) the clear and substantial consensus of (a) uninvolved administrators at AE or (b) uninvolved editors at AN or
    (ii) a passing motion of arbitrators at ARCA
    is required. If consensus at AE or AN is unclear, the status quo prevails.
    2. While asking the enforcing administrator and seeking reviews at AN or AE are not mandatory prior to seeking a decision from the committee, once the committee has reviewed a request, further substantive review at any forum is barred. The sole exception is editors under an active sanction who may still request an easing or removal of the sanction on the grounds that said sanction is no longer needed, but such requests may only be made once every six months, or whatever longer period the committee may specify.
    3. These provisions apply only to contentious topic restrictions placed by administrators and to blocks placed by administrators to enforce arbitration case decisions. They do not apply to sanctions directly authorized by the committee, and enacted either by arbitrators or by arbitration clerks, or to special functionary blocks of whatever nature.
    4. All actions designated as arbitration enforcement actions, including those alleged to be out of process or against existing policy, must first be appealed following arbitration enforcement procedures to establish if such enforcement is inappropriate before the action may be reversed or formally discussed at another venue.
    Information for administrators processing requests

    Thank you for participating in this area. AE works best if there are a variety of admins bringing their expertise to each case. There is no expectation to comment on every case, and the Arbitration Committee (ArbCom) thanks all admins for whatever time they can give.

    A couple of reminders:

    • Before commenting, please familiarise yourself with the referenced ArbCom case. Please also read all the evidence (including diffs) presented in the AE request.
    • When a request widens to include editors beyond the initial request, these editors must be notified and the notifications recorded in the same way as for the initial editor against whom sanctions were requested. Where some part of the outcome is clear, a partial close may be implemented and noted as "Result concerning X".
    • Enforcement measures in arbitration cases should be construed liberally to protect Misplaced Pages and keep it running efficiently. Some of the behaviour described in an enforcement request might not be restricted by ArbCom. However, it may violate other Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines; you may use administrative discretion to resolve it.
    • More than one side in a dispute may have ArbCom conduct rulings applicable to them. Please ensure these are investigated.

    Closing a thread:

    • Once an issue is resolved, enclose it between {{hat}} and {{hab}} tags. A bot should archive it in 7 days.
    • Please consider referring the case to ARCA if the outcome is a recommendation to do so or the issue regards administrator conduct.
    • You can use the templates {{uw-aeblock}} (for blocks) or {{AE sanction}} (for other contentious topic restrictions) to give notice of sanctions on user talk pages.
    • Please log sanctions in the Arbitration enforcement log.

    Thanks again for helping. If you have any questions, please post on the talk page.

    Arbitration enforcement archives
    1234567891011121314151617181920
    2122232425262728293031323334353637383940
    4142434445464748495051525354555657585960
    6162636465666768697071727374757677787980
    81828384858687888990919293949596979899100
    101102103104105106107108109110111112113114115116117118119120
    121122123124125126127128129130131132133134135136137138139140
    141142143144145146147148149150151152153154155156157158159160
    161162163164165166167168169170171172173174175176177178179180
    181182183184185186187188189190191192193194195196197198199200
    201202203204205206207208209210211212213214215216217218219220
    221222223224225226227228229230231232233234235236237238239240
    241242243244245246247248249250251252253254255256257258259260
    261262263264265266267268269270271272273274275276277278279280
    281282283284285286287288289290291292293294295296297298299300
    301302303304305306307308309310311312313314315316317318319320
    321322323324325326327328329330331332333334335336337338339340
    341342343344345346347

    Volunteer Marek

    Referred to the Arbitration Committee. El_C 18:02, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Volunteer Marek

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Icewhiz (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 16:01, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Volunteer Marek (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Eastern Europe#Standard discretionary sanctions, specific policy violations listed below
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

    Accusations of extremism

    1. 13:11, 28 May 2019 - "Translation: "the lede does not reflect my extremist POV so I'm gonna claim it's "unbalanced" and make WP:TENDENTIOUS edits". - WP:NPA,WP:ASPERSIONS
    2. 15:06, 18 May 2019 - "Not even gonna take that extremist nonsense form you seriously" - WP:V,WP:NPA

    Accusations of racism

    1. 18:21, 20 May 2019 - "The source does NOT "tie two phenomena together". You do. It's a COATRACK for the whole disgusting and racist "Poles are anti-semities" POV into this article.". WP:NPA+ baseless accusation ( Haaretz does tie).
    2. 05:30, 30 May 2019 - "You have been asked REPEATEDLY to stop evaluating sources on the basis of racist ethnic criteria." - WP:NPA/WP:ASPERSIONS, misunderstanding WP:NPOV. Saying UK/US media have different POV than Polish media, and Polish government stmts/reports - is not "racist".
    3. 14:21, 20 May 2019 - "rmv POV, rmv gratuitous stereotyping and ethnic generalizations" - BLP (named) and/or NPA.

    NPA/ASPERSIONS

    1. 06:14, 28 May 2019 - "another spurious WP:IJUSTDONTLIKEIT tag, WP:BATTLEGROUND tag. There's no "over reliance" on anything and your previous objection was addressed, so now you're just trying to make any ol' excuse up" - WP:ASPERSIONS,WP:NPA,WP:WNTRMT.
    2. 04:49, 28 May 2019 - "spurious tag, appears to be WP:STALK of another user and WP:BATTLEGROUND". False accusations, I tagged 3 March + opened Talk:Albert Forster#Poles and Jews extermination (no response when I reverted tag). WP:ASPERSIONS,WP:WNTRMT.
    3. 08:34, 28 May 2019 "Sure. When they stop making shit up and derailing discussions"" - WP:CIVIL,WP:NPA

    OR/V

    1. 03:22, 25 May 2019 - tags clarify on "they are popular", edit summary - "what does "popular" mean? They're actually pretty rare". WP:V/WP:CIR vs. cited sources. Also diff, diff.

    BLP

    1. 06:32, 26 May 2019 - restoring WP:BLPSPS. See Talk:Antony Polonsky#Alleged PDF by Stachura.
    2. 21:58, 26 May 2019 - "*you* are the one violating BLP.", 05:36, 28 May 2019 - "You created a whole section dedicated to attacking OTHER living people" - WP:ASPERSIONS - false, others added in 2012.

    V/OR/BLP when reinstating content by sockpuppets

    Per WP:PROXYING - "Editors who reinstate edits made by a banned or blocked editor take complete responsibility for the content.". Removal stated sock addition (Loosmark):

    1. 05:43, 30 May 2019. By Matalea. Material not in cited source. WP:V/WP:OR. 07:47, 30 May 2019 - "It's not "OR" it's just "knowing what the fuck one is talking about when trying to write an article rather than just making obnoxious POV edits". - WP:NPA after queried.
    2. 07:00, 30 May 2019 By Stawiski, multiple issues, glaring one: Jew marking in first lede sentence - "Roman Romkowski born Natan Grünspan-Kikiel, (May 22, 1907 – July 1, 1965) was a Polish communist official of Jewish background trained by Comintern..... MOS:ETHNICITY WP:NPOV.
    3. 06:43, 30 May 2019 By Matalea. Removal of anti-Jewish violence connection. Reinstated allegedly from ref: SYNTH (no CKZP), fails V. "created opportunities for ... special privileges for the immigrants" is contradicted by ref itself on page 72 (PM rejected proposal). WP:OR/WP:V.
    4. 05:24, 29 May 2019. By FoliesTrévise. Removal of academic sources addressing Belarus. Reinstating poor sources: blog, se.pl tabloid, naukowa.pl bookstore, etc. V issues. BLP issues - stating BLPs wrote something they hadn't. See Talk:Poles in Belarus#Ellman & Montefiore. WP:CIR / WP:V / WP:BLP

    References

    1. Devorah Hakohen, Immigrants in turmoil: mass immigration to Israel and its repercussions... Syracuse University Press, 2003 - 325 pages. Page 70. ISBN 0-8156-2969-9
    2. Devorah Hakohen, Immigrants in turmoil: mass immigration to Israel and its repercussions... Syracuse University Press, 2003 - 325 pages. Page 72. ISBN 0-8156-2969-9
    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any


    If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

    alerted 03:44, 23 May 2019 AE appeal 3 March 2019


    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    Trimmed.Icewhiz (talk) 20:56, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

    1. Diffs above are all actionable at AE - they are mostly simple and very recent conduct violations. This is not an ARBCOM filing (which would focus, perhaps, on very non-mainstream sources VM has introduced/backed over a long period) - this should be actionable here. My interactions vs. VM have been civil and within policy - despite the abuse reported above. All interactions occurred at VM's initiative - showing up at an article I had edited.
    2. VM's diff at AE, coupled with 07:00, 30 May 2019 (reported above) - is deeply concerning, and shows VM does not understand MOS:ETHNICITY. Marking a Polish citizen, a communist government official whose Jewish family background is not relevant to his notability (pre-war communist, fought for Soviets in WWII, post-war government official), as Jewish in the first sentence of the lede (sourced to a deadlink - mbp_x.republika.pl/html/romkowski.htm - which on the basis of the URL/text description does NOT seem to be a high quality source) - is a flagrant MOS:ETHNICITY violation - "Ethnicity, religion, or sexuality should generally not be in the lead unless it is relevant to the subject's notability.. Citizenship and religion/ethnic-background are not equivalent on English Misplaced Pages. This sort of conduct has gotten editors blocked/TBANed very swiftly.
    Icewhiz (talk) 04:01, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
    VM reverted content introduced by a sockuppet. The revert clearly stated the concerns - diff - "mostly added by blocked sock. A number of NPOV, MOS, V, and SYNTH issues.". In restoring this content - per WP:PROXYING VM is responsible for it (and should check it carefully for any issues - meaning verifying every source (given he left un-archived deadlinks as sources - including the source for ethnic background, it seems unlikely this happened). The same sockfarm introduced very questionable content elsewhere - describing an anti-Jewish pogrom as something entirely else (lots of sources there too - the text just didn't match the sources) - this content discussed at this AE leading to indef TBAN (reported editor not relevant - solely bringing up to show what Loosmark had been up to in the topic). VM's response here that citizenship is the same as ethnic-background/religion - is a big problem.Icewhiz (talk) 04:23, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
    @El C: - under "sockpuppets" the first diff next to each numeral is VM's. Full sequence for diff #2 (Jew marking) - Sockpuppet (Stawiski) expands article from 1246 bytes to 9230 bytes, content sits unchanged for years (gnomish edits, bots, the text essentially unchanged) (a typical situation for some of the articles in this topic area), challenged by Icewhiz, noting sock origin, VM reverts - per WP:PROXYING he takes "complete responsibility for the content". I will note there are additional issues there beyond just "Jew Marking" - they are more complex to explain (and require examining sources, including some in Polish - most of Loosmark's additions have multiple properly formatted references - some of which are far from RSes, and some others do not support the text next to them (or even contradict the text - e.g. diff #3, which is an English language ref)) - I pointed out "Jew marking here" as this is a glaring red-line conduct issue that is also very easy to see in the diff, and doesn't require content examination. Icewhiz (talk) 06:56, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
    Admin exercise: How fast do you indef-block a user who modifies Chuck Schumer's lede to read (bolded addition "of Jewish background") - "Charles Ellis Schumer (/ˈʃuːmər/; born November 23, 1950) is an American politician of Jewish background serving as the senior United States Senator from New York...." ? (But one of many conduct issues in VM's edits in the last two weeks - there are 14 other diffs up there on other issues)Icewhiz (talk) 07:02, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
    Also note - VM's revert at 07:00, 30 May 2019 - was preceded by 06:59, 30 May 2019 on Lozisht (probably responding to ping in Talk:Lozisht#Russian Empire, Second Polish Republic) - 1 minute apart (do we have a timestamp in seconds?). It is exceedingly unlikely that VM vetted the content he was restoring (in relation to "mostly added by blocked sock. A number of NPOV, MOS, V, and SYNTH issues") in the space of 1 minute. (a pattern repeated elsewhere in his recent contributions). Icewhiz (talk) 07:14, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
    @El C: - long period in time - but very short in edit count (no real change to added text by sock). I removed the content after finding multiple problems - half the article was SYNTH. Various bits I checked failed V. POV. The edit summary clearly said "mostly added by blocked sock. A number of NPOV, MOS, V, and SYNTH issues") - WP:PROXYING clearly applies given the sock comment. Regardless even if this was just "failed V" - whomever reverts is asserting they verified the content. I am not supposed to anticipate in advance which articles (over 40 since 15 May, often article VM never edited before) VM will choose to show up in right after I edit. Note also WP:REVERTBAN - "Anyone is free to revert any edits made in violation of a ban, without giving any further reason ... the presumption in ambiguous cases should be to revert." which indicates suspect content by banned editorsmshould be removed.Icewhiz (talk) 17:44, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
    notified


    Discussion concerning Volunteer Marek

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Volunteer Marek

    It's going to take me some time to properly respond. There's a lot here and I can't respond to it without providing proper context, diffs and examples of Icewhiz's own behavior that my comments are responding too. This dispute has been ongoing for sometime now - it basically started when Icewhiz began editing the topic area. This has been at WP:AE before and Icewhiz recently made an effort at WP:ARBCOM which was soundly rejected. You'll have to give me a bit of time here.Volunteer Marek (talk) 19:04, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

    Really quick, even a cursory look at some diffs shows that it's nonsense and that Icewhiz is blatantly misrepresenting the situation. For example, second diff by Icewhiz , Icewhiz claims that my statement "Not even gonna take that extremist nonsense form you seriously" is directed at Dr. Jolanta Ambrosewicz-Jacobs. This is nonsense. The statement is directed at Icewhiz as the word "you" clearly indicates and his repeated derisive characterization of a professional historian and reliable source, P Gontarczyk, as a "radio historian" because... the guy gave an interview on radio (there are more examples of this). That's right, Icewhiz is trying to claim that because a historian gave a radio interview, that makes them unreliable. That itself is a BLP vio - denigrating living people, and Icewhiz has been repeatedly warned about using Misplaced Pages to attack scholars he disagrees with.Volunteer Marek (talk) 19:14, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

    @El C: - before I respond in detail, I would like to make a general note that at this point an ArbCom case might very well be necessary. I actually have a very large number of diffs which document extremely problematic behavior from Icewhiz, particularly in regard to BLPs, use of sources, and misleading invocations of policy that spans the last two years which show a clear pattern of conduct. The diffs themselves might go well beyond the word limit at WP:AE.Volunteer Marek (talk) 19:17, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

    @El C: - thanks. With regard to the word limit - There's fifteen diffs here. Icewhiz's request is itself almost 1000 words (about double the allowed limit). It takes a lot more words to respond to an accusation than to make an accusation. It's simple to say "VM accused me of extremism". To respond to that I have to explain WHY I made that accusation, provide supporting evidence, and diffs. There's no way that I can adequately respond with under 500 words. It's unrealistic to ask me to do that. This is part of the reason why I think this might very well belong at ArbCom where a sufficient detail can be provided.Volunteer Marek (talk) 19:39, 30 May 2019 (UTC)


    Icewhiz: " *you* are the one violating BLP..", 05:36, 28 May 2019 - he was here (attacking a scholar he disagrees with) ditto

    "You created a whole section dedicated to attacking OTHER living people" - WP:ASPERSIONS - false, created in 2012 by other editors. - the original section may have not been created by Icewhiz but its current shape (at the time of the diff) was constructed by Icewhiz in edits on May 8th (and subsequent) and given its BLP vio title by Icewhiz and here.Volunteer Marek (talk) 20:29, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

    User:MJL thanks. But I'm still at a loss as to what that has to do with this WP:AE report and why Sir Joseph is bringing it up here. He seems to be insinuating some kind of "bad" on my part in that ANI (come on man, if you think I did something wrong, have the guts to come out and say it) but there I made only one comment, in which I actually agreed with Jayjg. I guess if you want to be more precise, in that situation you got one WP:SPA tagging certain "controversial" Polish-Jewish individuals as "Jewish", while Icewhiz on the other hand is running around and trying to tag the same/similar Polish-Jewish individuals as "Polish". My point there was, that in both cases it's kind of ridiculous and WP:TEND, since both individuals ethnicity and citizenship can easily be inferred from the context. The WP:SPA got rightly blocked/banned for this. Why Icewhiz was allowed to get away with the same kind of behavior is a good question indeed.Volunteer Marek (talk) 00:39, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

    @El C: @Black Kite: This addition right here (I see that after cutting down his statement Icewhiz couldn't resist but to come back and expand it back again) IS EXACTLY WHY it's impossible to have a constructive interaction with Icewhiz and why my comments often exhibit frustration. It is classic, textbook, quintessential, dictionary definition of WP:CPUSH. He says stuff like "the edit is deeply concerning", even bolds it. This "deeply concerning" language insinuates some nefarious bad action on more part, like, you know, Icewhiz, just can't believe that someone would make such an edit. He is deeply concerned. Very very very deeply. Come on! Does anyone seriously believe that he is "deeply concerned" here? Or is he just trying to pretend that a legitimate edit is problematic? What is suppose to be so "deeply concerning"? Icewhiz pretends that in that edit I "marked" a person as Jewish. Nonsense. What I did is undo a blanket revert by Icewhiz of well sourced text. There's six freakin' paragraphs that Icewhiz tried to remove under spurious pretenses. With sources. THAT IS WHY I UNDID IT. But Icewhiz pretends that my edit was something else, that it was all about labeling a person as "Jewish" (in fact I couldn't give a toss). Note that in the edit summary, I specifically requested Icewhiz to address specific concerns on talk. If he really was so "deeply concerned", then he could've said on talk "I don't think the person's ethnicity is relevant here", and I would have agreed. Instead he brought it up here. I'm sorry but there is no other way to describe this kind of misrepresentation except as dishonest. And the whole "deeply concerning" language is a weaselly insinuation which, if I understand correctly what he is trying to imply here, I take very serious offense at. If you want me to state bluntly what I think Icewhiz is trying to accuse-me-while-pretending-not-to-accuse-me off I can be explicit.Volunteer Marek (talk) 04:06, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

    The content was legit and sourced. The only reason for Icewhiz to blank most of the article is... I don't know. Again, if his issue was with the fact that the article mentioned the subject was Jewish then, as I said, he could've 1) explained that on talk or 2) removed JUST THAT PART. He did neither. Instead he came here and falsely pretended that my edit's sole purpose was to violate WP:MOSETHNICITY. Now he's inventing new excuses (there were deadlinks!) but these excuses only highlight the fact that his original accusation was false.Volunteer Marek (talk) 04:32, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

    @El C: I also have no idea why Icewhiz is bringing up (third sentence, his last comment) edits made by someone else which were made somewhere else and eight freaking years ago, in fact on an article that I have never edited (afaik) and pretending that I had something to do with that. This is more baseless insinuation of some sort, trying to pretend that I'm responsible for something ... or other.Volunteer Marek (talk) 04:36, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

    "VM's revert at 07:00, 30 May 2019 - was preceded by 06:59, 30 May 2019 on Lozisht (...) - 1 minute apart (...) It is exceedingly unlikely that VM vetted the content he was restoring " - oh ffs, there is such a thing as having more than one browser tab open. As I type this I have 48 tabs open in three windows, with 22 of them being Misplaced Pages, and 4 of them being edits-in-process, which I have open while I am "vetting" the edit/sources. Is it not obvious how inane and bad faithed these kinds of accusations are? Like this is suppose to sanctionable? And to be sure - ALL of Icewhiz diffs in this request consist of absurd stuff like this. But hey, at least Icewhiz is "civil" when he makes these ridiculous accusations.Volunteer Marek (talk) 07:31, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

    And I'm sorry, but wtf is this??? Did I edit the article on Chuck Schumer or something? Icewhiz's sentence appears to imply that I did. I didn't. What the hell does this have to do with anything here? User:Black Kite? User:El_C? Can someone explain this to me? No? Then please rein him the hey in because this is getting into straight up smears territory.Volunteer Marek (talk) 08:00, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

    Statement by Sir Joseph

    We see VM here often enough, in several different subject areas, but in this case we see several diffs that are clearly actionable that are either blockable or are at the very least worthy of a TBAN and I don't think we need to wait for a full on ARBCOM case to settle this. Sir Joseph 18:05, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

    @El C:If you don't want to read the whole thing, you can start with the first couple of diffs, and they are clearly actionable, calling people extremist and personal attacks is not allowed and is typical of VM's behavior. It should not be allowed to continue, especially in this topic area. Sir Joseph 19:59, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
    @El C:I understand that, but neither are allowed here, further, people have been blocked here for saying someone has a "nationalist POV." Further, that is just the tip of the iceberg with regards to VM's edits, and for some reason at AE he seems to always get away with things, so he continues with his ways. Whether he is blocked or not, a TBAN is in order.

    As for the ANI thread, as it points out, there seems to be this disturbing fascination with a specific topic. And I do urge some admin to visit that ANI thread and start using a fishing net and throw out TBANs. While one person was oversight blocked, that is not enough. There is a resurgence of a POV that is making its way into Misplaced Pages that we need to stop fast. Sir Joseph 20:25, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

    • There is something about Zero's comment that just rubs me the wrong way. I just can't put my finger on it. It's also ironic I think considering the topic. Sir Joseph 22:55, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

    Statement by François Robere

    Question to admins: Is WP:NPA policy? If so, why is it consistently ignored?

    • "Very clearly someone went through the internet and tried to drudge up anything negative to add here" - no, I didn't. It was actually a fairly harsh criticism of the subject's theoretical approach, that I think went well with the (many) other criticisms of his ideological involvement. Instead of a proper criticism (eg. on relevance or clarity), VM went for a personal attack.
    • "f no. Enough of these BLP vios and using Misplaced Pages articles as smear pages. I've tried to keep all the legitimate and well sourced criticism in the article to the extent it was possible but the over the top nasty and gleeful attacks DO violate BLP" - about a completely RS and DUE criticism by Joanna Michlic, project director at Brandeis and a fellow at Harvard and UCL. Like most critiques in that article, this too was eventually accepted into the consensus.
    • "Stop making shit up" - an oft-repeated phrase. It may sounds like an off-hand comment, but it's actually a serious accusation: that an editor falsified information. I don't understand why admins take it so lightly.

    François Robere (talk) 18:46, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

    Statement by Zero0000

    Instead of just looking at VM's statements to Icewhiz, one should consider whether VM's charges of bias have a solid basis. The fact is that VM is the only editor with the energy to counter Icewhiz's dedicated moulding of the entire Polish/Jewish area. Zero 22:23, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

    An arbcom case for this would be appropriate, but it should be presented as an examination of the behavior of all the main editors in the Polish/Jewish area, not as a case by one of them against another of them. For that reason I think it would be best if an uninvolved administrator opened it. Zero 02:07, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

    Statement by MJL

    @Volunteer Marek: For your convenience: Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#MOS:ETHNICITY on articles about Polish Jews (permalink). –MJL ‐Talk‐ 00:24, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

    Statement by Piotrus

    1) The peanut gallery concern expressed in the admin section below is certainly an issue, as some comments here (yes, including mine) are clearly from editors 'with a side'. But it is worth nothing that some of those sides are not about the Polish-Jewish topics, ex. the comment by editor above me comes from someone who to the best of my knowledge never edited PJ topics, and probably has sparred with VM over another topic area, hence their suggestion to escalate the proposed remedy (topic ban) more widely. Peanut gallery indeed. There is some merit in trying to get an ArbCom that would look into what's been going in with this topic area, because there is also merit in saying that the Polish Jewish topic area was stable for many years (with occasional edits from VM) until a ~year ago when two editors (Ice and FR) made their appearance. Which was, to some degree, helpful (I do find some articles have been improved, through I have mixed feelings about a few) - but, for better or worse, did upset this topic area, which was not a WP:BATTLEGROUND until that point.

    2) I've been always supportive of WP:NPA, and as much as I often tend to agree with VM POV I also can't say I always agree with the way he words things. Nonetheless, although I doubt that many admins will care of something that's more targeted rather then a nuke-level remedy, I've found in the past (~10 years) ago that interaction bans (WP:IBAN) are a good solution. I don't think there are any problems with VM content edit (outside an occasional edit summary); they all fit in the realm of regular content dispute and general 1RR and BDR. His talk contributions are, however, less constructive; to what degree there is baiting involved (and any boomerang issues), I don't feel competent to judge (as I am also a party in some of those discussions). But IF there is anything actionable in this, I'd think an IBAN would be more appropriate than a TBAN, since the issue is not about content, but about discussion attitude.

    3) It is important to review diffs. Ex. the accusation of racism and such in made by the op seems IMHO rather spurious. Yes, VM did say in his edit summary "rmv POV, rmv gratuitous stereotyping and ethnic generalizations" but clearly, he did not say this about an editor, but about content - he just removed the text " the stereotyping of Jews in Poland is widespread, particularly so in the church" which can, indeed, be argued to meet the description in his diff. I don't have time (and likely, word limit) to review other diffs here, but if this is one of the best (and the OR/V sections are pure content dispute, not fit for AE), then there's not that much here to see. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 03:01, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning Volunteer Marek

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • I'm not that familiar with the dispute/s, even though I'm the one who applied DS to History of the Jews in Poland (WP:AEL#2019#Eastern_Europe — yes, I realize it's in Central Europe!). There's a lot of evidence to review here, which is difficult to do (for me, at least) without additional context. At any rate, although, at a glance, this report seems worth looking into, it may actually be better suited for a separate Arbitration case. I'm a bit undecided about that. But in light of the ANI (which I have not had a chance to review) having been oversignted, that perhaps should be the course of action here. I await other respondents (including VM, himself, of course), who are perhaps better informed than myself, before I make up my mind. El_C 18:01, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
    • I'll await to hear what VM has to say first — hopefully, it will be expressed with more civility and good faith than the manner in which those diffs depict — but, if we are to take action, I am leaning toward a topic ban. And perhaps also something along the lines of the no personal comments sanction that Awilley applied to SashiRolls. El_C 18:40, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
    • VM, take your time. No one is going to close this report before you get a chance to respond in detail. As mentioned, I still haven't decided whether this should be brought before the Committee, or settled here. Please do try to observe the word/diff limit, though. Thanks. El_C 19:23, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
    • VM, the length of Icewhiz's request work to their detriment. I suggest they shorten it to the accepted limit, focusing on just the most egregious examples (and that would be my suggestion to you, also) — it's not unlikely that less lenient admins than myself would prefer taking no action on that basis alone. El_C 19:48, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
    • SirJoseph, it's one thing to call someone an extremist, and it's another to call someone's point of view extremist. Because a point of view can suffer from misconceptions, whereas extremist people tend to do extremist things. Calling someone an extremist would be straight out personal attack. Not that calling someone's point of view extremist is a particularly civil way to engage with another editor — I'm not saying that, either. El_C 20:14, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
    • VM, if this assistant professor is not considered notable (failing WP:PROF), and the source in question is, indeed, an open access journal, then I don't see a BLP issue that's preventing us from stating this is so (in an edit summary, as the basis for its removal). El_C 20:48, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
    • Icewhiz, VM is claiming that he was not Jew marking but that that was just a by-product of reverting multiple paragraphs removed by you. He even says that he does not object to the subject's Jewish background being removed. El_C 04:14, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
    • Icewhiz, regarding your item that begins with "VM reverted content introduced by a sockuppet" — I'm not seeing any edits by VM listed in that item. El_C 04:29, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
    • Icewhiz, VM is not obliged to check whether longstanding material that had been in the article for 8 years is somehow in question for one reason or another. Your edit summary hints at the problem, but it is just too terse. So, I do think such a massive removal on your part should have been prefaced by an article talk page explanation to that effect. That would have saved everyone a lot of trouble and rendered all of the highly problematic accusations as to Jew marking redundant. This isn't to say that VM's revert was the right call, either. They, too, should to have gone to the article talk page rather than immediately revert, even if only to ask "what gives?" El_C 17:15, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

    I don't mind continuing to respond to queries here, but as mentioned in my opener, this may be more suited for Arbitration (as much as we may want to lighten the Committee's workload). Three other admins appear even more conclusive about that, so it looks like this is what's gonna end up happening. El_C 17:55, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

    • I would suggest this needs to go to ArbCom now, otherwise we will be back here again soon, and the environment of AE with its associated peanut gallery is probably not conducive to such a complicated issue. Black Kite (talk) 23:00, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
    • There is very likely something actionable here, at least on the part of Volunteer Marek. But the (perhaps quite legitimate) scope of the complaint exceeds what can reasonably be reviewed and decided at AE by a single admin. We are best suited to dealing with cases involving one or two diffs of clear misconduct. I support a referral to ArbCom. Of course, if anybody else wants to spend half a day looking through all of this and coming to a decision, feel free... Sandstein 08:15, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
    • I tend to agree with Sandstein and Black Kite. This is rather complex to be handled by the action of a single admin here. An actual arbitration request would have structured presentation of evidence and a longer period of time to review and sort it out, and I think that's going to be required here. Seraphimblade 17:05, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

    Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Tryptofish

    Tryptofish is no longer subject to the previous two-way IBAN. The sanction is modified so that SashiRolls is subject to a one-way IBAN with Tryptofish TonyBallioni (talk) 21:48, 6 June 2019 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
    Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved administrators" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.

    To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).

    Appealing user
    Tryptofish (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – Tryptofish (talk) 20:35, 5 June 2019 (UTC)
    Sanction being appealed
    2-way IBAN: (apparently not logged), resulting from this AE:
    Administrator imposing the sanction
    El_C (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)
    Notification of that administrator

    Statement by Tryptofish

    What I'm requesting: A modification of the IBAN that lifts the portion of it applying to me, thus changing it from 2-way to 1-way.

    Explanation: The IBAN (which includes some important ABAN components) was issued by El_C as the result of an AE filing by Kingofaces43, which was not about my conduct. Admins can get a good, quick tl;dr of the issues underlying my request by reading the discussion at El_C's talk page, here: . El_C says that he has no objection to this request, without further consultation with him, if the consensus here is to grant it: , .

    My initial statement in the case, I believe, clearly and succinctly sets out the problems of the other editor's interactions with me: . The other editor followed me around; I never followed him. The other admin who reviewed the AE case, Vanamonde93, stated that I was actually one of the few whose conduct I have no complaints about: , and that he would have preferred a 1-way IBAN instead: , . El_C has explained that he did not base his decision on anything in my conduct, and regards the 2-way ban as "no-fault", having done it simply as a way to quickly resolve a dispute where the evidence had become overly complex: . (I apologize for having added some lengthy material to my own initial statement there, but I did so in order to refute some wild accusations against me, and my having done so is obviously not disruptive conduct – nor should I be blamed because other volunteers didn't have enough time to investigate everything.) In short, I did nothing wrong that would justify a restriction on me, and I think I can be trusted not to violate a lifting of the part of it that applies to me.

    Recognizing that the 2-way IBAN was no-fault, and that there were good reasons to deal with the dispute promptly, I'm really not unhappy with the restriction, and indeed, I'm very happy to be separated from the other editor and I want to remain separated from them. In that sense, it's no big deal. But I also realize that, like it or not, some other editors are likely to misjudge me by it, and I would prefer not to have it continue hanging over my head. And I think it's clear that I can be trusted. I plan to continue to voluntarily avoid the other editor. I don't want contact with them, and I have zero interest in editing the content areas where they edit, and avoiding them is just the right thing to do. I also understand and agree that if hypothetically I were to abuse the lifting of the restriction, it will be reinstated. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:35, 5 June 2019 (UTC)

    I'll just say a few things about the accusations made by Levivich. I was the filing party in the GMO ArbCom case, and I was the editor who crafted the language that got the community's consensus at WP:GMORFC. I have had pretty much all of the GMO-related pages on my watchlist since 2013 or shortly after (first edit: ). There's nothing "following" about seeing problematic edits by another editor on my watchlist and responding to them.
    And – you can believe this or not – but I learned about the other editor's block from reading Levivich's comment here. I took very seriously my responsibility to abide by the IBAN, so I wasn't aware of the block when I filed here. I said at El_C's talk page that I would wait a few days and then file here if nothing happened first, and that's what I did. --Tryptofish (talk) 15:44, 6 June 2019 (UTC)

    Statement by El_C

    No objection. I just don't have time to investigate this further. This was done in the interest of expediency with no fault explicitly stated. If those who do have time to investigate this find that changing it to one-way is better, that's totally fine with me. El_C 20:58, 5 June 2019 (UTC)

    Statement by Kingofaces43

    Just commenting as the original filer of the AE where I was reporting problems with Sashirolls (and absolutely not Tryptofish). They already described the hounding problems they were having with Sashirolls that popped in to the GMO topic as I also described at the original AE, so the only thing I'll say on Sashirolls is that even after the interaction ban, a few weeks later they were also given another sanction and later blocked. I completely understand El C's reasoning for a quick resolution when no one else was acting, but ideally other editors should not get swept up that easily in a sanction when a long-term problematic editor is brought to AE for an nth sanction.

    This appeal is about Tryptofish's behavior though, so that's where the focus should be. El C already made it clear it was a no-fault sanction for Tryptofish, and there wasn't really evidence brought to AE of problems with Tryptofish's behavior in dealing with a hounding editor. This is pretty much a clear cut case where a one-way is the better way to go while still preventing further hounding by Sashirolls. I always suggest one-ways with caution where obvious attempts to game the sanction should be met pretty harshly, but that's generally when one party is clearly disruptive, and the other shows some levels of battleground behavior that do not necessarily need a full sanction. Instead, this was one-way harassment/battleground with reasonable responses to it by Tryptofish, so there's no reason to have a sanction in place on them. That's especially since Tryptofish made it clear they didn't want anything to do with Sashirolls anyways until they jumped into the GMO/pesticide topic where Tryptofish frequently edits. Kingofaces43 (talk) 01:10, 6 June 2019 (UTC)

    I'll only quickly chime in that I am concerned about how Levivich has been following this interaction and their comments at the ANI Tryptofish mentioned (I hadn't run into Levivich before) dismissing an attack page against Tryptofish, the last AE, and now. Each time they have been deflecting from Sashirolls continuously poor behavior and muddying the waters trying to say Tryptofish was the problem. That isn't ok, and that is beginning to test the line on the WP:ASPERSIONS principle in this subject that is supposed to discourage that degree of framing without supporting evidence.
    None of those edits show Tryptofish, who frequently edits those articles, following Sashirolls as Levivich incorrectly claims (which they should strike). The actual "following" being done, based on the last AE, was Sashirolls coming into the GMO topics combined with specifically going after Tryptofish in the article talk page battleground comments in a one-way fashion. I wasn't going to comment here further since Tryptofish's appeal is straightforward, but who was hounding who definitely should not be obfuscated at AE like that. Sashirolls' block/sanction list was already long enough we don't go blaming editors because they got slightly frustrated with hounding or showed a tiny amount of snark when dealing with a repeatedly disruptive editor. Kingofaces43 (talk) 18:31, 6 June 2019 (UTC)

    Statement by Hijiri88

    I gave my reasons for supporting this move here; no need to post them twice. I should add, however, that I think it was a very good idea to appeal this sooner rather than later; the community -- even admins and several former and current Arbs -- seem to very easily forget the circumstances under which such sanctions are imposed, which would make appealing on grounds like Tryptofish has somewhat difficult (and near-impossible if the other party is still actively editing). (This is not a reference to any specific IBAN I am aware of, but a commentary on the larger pattern of behaviour displayed by much of the community in relation to two-way IBANs in general.) Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 04:20, 6 June 2019 (UTC)

    @Levivich: I'm not sure I agree that the encyclopedia would be better if the two-way IBAN stayed; this assumes that in those cases where the two have conflicted over content neither party has been either right or wrong, which seems like quite a big leap of faith. Also, your final remark about how this was opened after SR was blocked is irrelevant, since Trypt indicated his intention to file this request well over a day before that block; unless you are accusing Trypt of somehow orchestrating SR's block and waiting until this planned block had come to fruition before filing this request, I should think it would be a good idea for you to strike that part of your statement, since it looks like that is what you are implying. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 06:23, 6 June 2019 (UTC)

    Statement by Levivich

    It does not appear to me to be accurate when Tryptofish says "The other editor followed me around; I never followed him." The two editors have edited seven articles together (2019 Interaction Timeline). (Tryp's been editing longer.) Three, Sashi was the first editor (Jill Stein, Pizzagate conspiracy theory, and Criticism of Misplaced Pages). For the remaining four, Tryp is the first editor, but...

    • Roundup (herbicide)
    • Glyphosate
      • T followed S on May 10 (9 hrs), otherwise nobody is following anybody.
      • S's first edit: 3-29-19 (all of S's edits)
      • T's previous edit: 3-20-19, nine days prior. T's next edit: 3-31-19, two days later. (all of T's edits)
      • Both edited it on 3-31, 4-1 and 4-2. T edited on 5-4 and 5-6. S next edited four days later on 5-10, followed by T 9 hours later. Both edited it 5-13 to 5-15. S hasn't edited it since 5-15.
    • Note: on 30 March 2019, Tryp posted a DS alert on Sashi's talk page . For background, when Sashi was tbanned from Jill Stein in 2016, it was Tryp who filed the complaint. (And Tryp posted "Strongest possible opposition" to Sashi's unblock 2018 appeal .)
    • Then in April, Sashi posted to ANI about another user and Tryp, responding to the other user's ping , brought up Sashi's past and called for a boomerang against Sashi , proposed an IBAN against Sashi , called Sashi a "crackpot saying obnoxious things", and called Sashi a "troll" (while posting this picture). Tryp opened a new ANI thread against Sashi (archived thread), which also went nowhere. It was closed, Tryp unclosed it and later re-closed it himself. After that...
    • Monsanto legal cases
      • Nobody is following anybody here.
      • S's first edit: 5-11-19. This is the only edit S made to this article .
      • T's previous edit: 9-17-18, eight months prior. T's next edit: 5-16-19, five days later. (all of T's edits)
    • Séralini affair
    • The encyclopedia would be better if these two editors minimized their interaction. The no fault two-way IBAN should stay. Oh, and this appeal was filed one day after Sashi was blocked for a week. – Levivich 05:43, 6 June 2019 (UTC)
      • @Hijiri88: I'm not implying anything. The relevance of the timing is that Tryp could have waited until next week to file this appeal, so that Sashi could comment here. I thought when Tryp posted a notification on Sashi's talk page, he would have seen that Sashi was blocked (if he wasn't already aware of it), and he could have at least noted that here so that admin could choose to keep the thread open until Sashi had a chance to comment. I think it's poor form to ask for a no-fault 2-way to be turned into a 1-way while the other editor is blocked. That's why I brought it up, to make sure all reviewing admin are aware of it. I see now that Tryp apparently didn't notify Sashi of this appeal on their talk page. I guess if Sashi isn't required to be notified, it's moot, but I'd think any editor who is party to an IBAN should be able to comment in a discussion about whether that IBAN is lifted or turned from 2-way to 1-way. (Requesting word extension for this reply.) – Levivich 06:33, 6 June 2019 (UTC)
      • @Newyorkbrad: Thanks. To be clear, my point isn't that Tryp was following Sashi, it's that Tryp's repeated accusations here at AE that Sashi was following Tryp are not accurate. I wouldn't even bother making that point, except Sashi can't make that point himself, because he wasn't notified of this appeal and is blocked anyway. – Levivich 15:23, 6 June 2019 (UTC)

    Statement by Snooganssnoogans

    I just want to point out so it's clear that most of the cases presented by Levivich of Tryptofish "following" Sashirolls are instances where Tryptofish had first edited a page. It's entirely consistent with someone watchlisting a page. Levivich says there are three instances where Levivich was not the first to edit a page. One of those cases is the Jill Stein page, and given that I'm familiar with the history of the page, I can tell you that the content disputes on that page were advertised on relevant noticeboards to get more community input, so it's reasonable to assume that Tryptofish was brought to the page that way. For example, Tryptofish's first edit was on 20 Aug 2016, a few days after editors had raised the issue of vaccine-related content (an issue that Tryptofish edits a lot on) on the RS noticeboard and the NPOV noticeboard. I'm sure the two remaining examples of Sashirolls being first to a page can also be explained away (at least, no evidence has been presented to indicate that Tryptofish went there to revert Sashirolls). The assertion that Tryptofish is following Sashirolls around is therefore unsubstantiated. Snooganssnoogans (talk) 11:02, 6 June 2019 (UTC)

    Result of the appeal by Tryptofish

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • Awaiting any further statements, since this request does not appear to be overly time-sensitive. After reviewing the previous AE thread and the follow-up talkpage discussions, my preliminary reaction is that as far as I can tell, no administrator has found serious or repeated fault with Tryptofish's behavior. If that is the case, it would be difficult to justify keeping him under a sanction. If that is not the case, it would be helpful if someone could point us to the specifics. Newyorkbrad (talk) 20:53, 5 June 2019 (UTC)
      • Levivich's request to extend the word limit is granted to the extent of what he has already posted plus another 150 words for any further replies. That being said, I don't find his evidence of "Tryptofish following SashiRolls" to be persuasive. Newyorkbrad (talk) 14:56, 6 June 2019 (UTC)
    • I'm inclined to grant the appeal, converting this into a 1-way iban. Levivich seems to be the only one attempting to present any evidence of misconduct by Tyrptofish, but I'm not actually seeing anything in there that demonstrates any wrongdoing. It seems they have a small overlap in edited pages, with T editing first roughly half the time and S first the other half - that is not evidence of following, especially when in at least one case where T edited the article shortly after S the edits were unrelated. Users who are at the unrestricted end of a one-way iban do still need to take care they don't game the restriction (or even give the appearance of doing so), and any evidence of that will be dealt with harshly but based on the evidence here and in the first AE I don't think it likely Tryptofish will engage in that sort of behaviour. I'd rather this not be closed too hastily though. Thryduulf (talk) 12:08, 6 June 2019 (UTC)
    • I agree with my colleagues above. As El C doesn't mind changing this to one way, if there are no objections by other admins in the next few hours, I'll close this after it has hit 24 hours. TonyBallioni (talk) 17:20, 6 June 2019 (UTC)