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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the 8chan article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Misplaced Pages? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help. Assume good faith Be polite and avoid personal attacks Be welcoming to newcomers Seek dispute resolution if needed Article policies Neutral point of view No original research Verifiability

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Free software category

Is this category relevant? Category:Free software programmed in PHP The article says nothing about the software being Free. — Strongjam (talk) 19:50, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

See: https://github.com/ctrlcctrlv/infinity. If it's not mentioned in the article it probably should... --Fixuture (talk) 19:54, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

8chan is a website, http://infinitydev.org/ is the free software. They're two different things and the latter is not mentioned in the article; 8chan itself is not "free software" so the category doesn't apply. — Jeraphine Gryphon  20:24, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

It is an AGPL Web application, so the Web site is also the software, not just a Service. Infinity was created with the expressed purpose of cleaning up 8chan code base (README.md). The above-linked repo is ctrlcctrlv's (copypaste/Brennen) branch/fork which runs in Production; not current mainline. If we walk backwards through Category:Misplaced Pages, we emerge at Category:Free software. Canonical's Launchpad is a Web site, Service, infrastructure, free software product and project. At the very least this should be categorized Category:Free web software; I've been bold in doing that. -- dsprc  12:31, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

Sourcing for Trump campaign section

Fellow editors, I have reverted the addition of the following Time source, on the basis that for the portions which verify the article text it solely reproduces another source. Mic, which we already use. Time: Mic: Thoughts on inclusion or exclusion? - Ryk72 13:15, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

Well it also cites NBC news and has a standalone paragraph I was going to cite, but in the end I found a NYT article that covers the same bit, so at this point I'm ambivalent on it's inclusion. — Strongjam (talk) 13:25, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

We should probably be going direct with both the Mic and the NBC News aspects. The new NYT article wants in text attribution. - Ryk72 13:31, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

The new NYT article wants in text attribution Why? Its not an opinion, and its not in dispute. WP:ASSERT says just to assert it. — Strongjam (talk) 13:38, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

Is it? It does look very much like an opinion piece; though opinion pieces can contain fact, and factual news can contain opinion. - Ryk72 13:50, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

It's not an opinion piece, it actually was a cover article on the July 14th paper. - Strongjam (talk) 13:57, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

It really does look very, very much like an opinion piece. Terribly so. - Ryk72 14:03, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

• Looking back over the Mic source, it traces the image back to a Twitter account, @FishBoneHead1, which tweeted the image on June 15, 2016, a week before the post on 8chan's /pol/ board. It would be remiss for us not to mention this; as it may lead the reader to an erroneous belief as to the provenance of the image. - Ryk72 13:50, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

Most of the sources do mention that, it should probably be worked into the prose somehow. — Strongjam (talk) 13:57, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

I don't see how we can do other than chronologically. The Mic article, of course, does not; but it has an essence of detective work in its outlook - unraveling the strands to go back through time to the source. We don't really have the luxury of such poetic heights. - Ryk72 14:03, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

Controversies: /pol/ - Do we have enough sources for a section?

Fellow editors, On a related note, do we have enough sources for a separate section on the /pol/ board? A number of sources make assertions of racism, white supremacy et al. Is this isolated to 8chan, or is there an extant 4chan /pol/? - Ryk72 13:19, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

I would also like to add this information, which was repeatedly deleted, despite being well sourced. 8chan's pol board is specifically mentioned in at least one of the sources.

In July of 2016, US presidential candidate Donald Trump tweeted an image of Hillary Clinton with a background of money and a six pointed star, seen by some as resembling the Star of David containing the message "Most corrupt candidate ever". The image had originally been posted to 8chan's /pol/ board. The New York Times called 8chan a "website for the 'alt right,' an internet-based movement associated with white nationalism".

Benjamin (talk) 18:21, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

References

1. "Donald Trump's Star of David Tweet Came From a Fringe Website, a Report Says". The New York Times. July 4, 2016.
2. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07pjb9y

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Cloudflare change

https://blog.cloudflare.com/terminating-service-for-8chan/

Cloudflare has decided to stop posting 8chan. This was mentioned in footnote 47 I believe

Seems relevant. Benjamin (talk) 02:45, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 August 2019

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

In the "El Paso shooting" section, correct a spelling error in the phrase "and recided its support for 8chan" by changing "recided" to "rescinded". 104.33.199.165 (talk) 06:41, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

Done. Benjamin (talk) 07:05, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 August 2019

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The site is currently down. It is widely reported that they have been dropped by Cloudflare, their DNS provider. 2601:782:400:9E4A:9863:4307:39E3:40CC (talk) 09:03, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Saucy 23:45, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

8Chan Owner States El Paso Shooter Never Posted Manifesto

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKPdbEAmWGE https://www.cnet.com/news/8chan-owner-says-el-paso-shooter-didnt-post-manifesto/ Current owner of 8Chan, Jim Watkins, retired late 50s Army veteran living in the Philippines, states that the manifesto was originally and solely posted on Instagram. Then, someone unrelated, posted it on 8Chan to laugh at it. It was deleted shortly after by staff, and authorities were informed. The owner states that the FBI has confirmed this. "We have always been in compliance with the law, and have always been aggressively forthcoming to help law enforcement of it. There are about 1 million users of 8Chan; 8Chan is an empty piece of paper for writing on. It is disturbing to me that it can be so easily shut down." Any in manner, the owner vows to restore 8Chan through another provider in the next coming days, and has received multiple offers. 2601:982:4200:A6C:F0D7:F213:2962:FF3 (talk) 16:46, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

This is an extremely important part of the story. 8chan is being attacked and deplatformed for the shooter posting a manifesto there, when the shooter actually used Instagram. The site admin has been working with law enforcement and has made them aware of this, so the Misplaced Pages page should reflect it. Sniper Fox (talk) 14:06, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

The CNet source has been updated to focus on Instragram denying the accusation. More generally, we have to go by what the majority of reliable sources say; they don't, generally, agree with Watkins, and most don't seem to be paying attention to his claims at all, which implies they're not taken seriously by the press. --Aquillion (talk) 16:23, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

It should be on Instagrams wikipage then in the controversies section HardeeHar (talk) 12:28, 16 August 2019 (UTC)

"Was" vs "Is"

The lede currently says that "8chan was..." a website. It is clear from the rest of the article that while the website's clearnet presence is down (possibly for good), it still exists on the darkweb. So, referring to 8chan in the past tense is incorrect. It should be "8chan is..." a website. I made this change but it was reverted without comment by Ehuang3190. Thoughts? Cosmic Sans (talk) 18:12, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

I just want to add that the chance of them not finding another clearnet site is virtually nil. People jumped up and down when Gab went offline, (insisting on the "was" terminology), and Daily Stormer as well for that matter. There are always lines of providers ready to take them up. 2601:982:4200:A6C:F0D7:F213:2962:FF3 (talk) 18:16, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

Even if it never exists on the clearnet again, the fact that it currently exists somewhere should be enough to save it from the past tense. But you're right, these controversial websites always find new hosts eventually. Cosmic Sans (talk) 18:27, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

Agreed that it should be "is". I've just changed it back, again, with a note to discuss here before changing it to "was". GorillaWarfare (talk) 22:05, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

"as with"

As with unaffiliated imageboard 4chan, the site is linked to harmful activism ...

Does this sentence mean that 8chan is linked both with 4chan and with harmful activism? Or do people write as with because they're nervous about like? —Tamfang (talk) 17:51, 11 August 2019 (UTC)

Dayton shooting

Why does the article mention the August 4th Dayton shooting in the sentence about 8chan being taken off the clearnet? As far as we know, that shooting had nothing to do with 8chan. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Samspore (talk • contribs) 04:41, 12 August 2019 (UTC)

It seems that a fair number of sources mentioning the shooting and 8chan also mention the Dayton shooting. Because the shootings were so soon after one another, they seem to have made a stronger impact and almost considered one event by some news articles. It's less that the Dayton shooting was in any way related to 8chan, but rather the reaction to the El Paso shooting was perhaps made stronger by the other shooting so soon after it. I see the argument for not including it in this article, but I also see why it's mentioned in tandem. If I had to register a !vote it would be to remove the mention of the Dayton shooting, but it makes sense to wait for other opinions. GorillaWarfare (talk) 01:59, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

QAnon section in article

"With a flood of new users on the board, Q asked Ron to upgrade the website's servers"

Who or what is 'Ron' - can't find a mention elsewhere in the article. Maybe I'm dumb... Cannonmc (talk) 13:40, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

Hi Cannonmc, At 8chan#History it says "Brennan himself officially resigned in July 2016, turning the site over to its owner, Jim Watkins and his son, Ron", Maybe somewhere in the lede it should include Jim and Ron as if no one reads the whole top half of the article no one's going to know. –Dave | Davey2010 13:47, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

Agreed that that's really confusing. I've added a little more explanation: GorillaWarfare (talk) 15:18, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

Thank you that's cleared up a point for me Cannonmc (talk) 02:48, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

Antisemitism template

I have attempted to revert the the addition of the Antisemitism sidebar as this article does not provide any context which would justify its use, but I have been reverted repeatedly:

• @Beyond My Ken: "Undid revision 915002191 by Lmatt (talk)"
• @Grayfell: "Undid revision 915005969 by Lmatt (talk) It discusses the alt-right and a synagogue shooting."
• @Grayfell: "Undid revision 915025600 by Lmatt (talk) If you're not willing to discuss on the talk page, stop edit warring."

There appears to be consensus on Talk:4chan § Antisemitism template not include the template on that article:

It isn't in dispute that there is a ton of antisemitic material on the site, but there is also material attacking blacks, Hispanics, Muslims, anyone the alt-right dislikes. The problem with this edit is that it gives excessive prominence to something that is not discussed and cited in the article.
— User:Ianmacm 16:54, 10 September 2019

8chan also appears to be linked to the alt-right which is why it is rightly included in the Alt-right navbox at the bottom of the page, but similarly to 4chan I don't believe the Antisemitism sidebar is justified in this article. Lmatt (talk) 20:33, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

It is surreal that the article doesn't mention 8chan's anti-Semitism. This is a gap in the article which needs to be corrected, since this is a defining trait according to a large number of sources. I will add some of those now, so be patient. Since articles are works-in-progress, if the template is what has prompted the article to be updated, so be it. It's not the ideal approach, but the end result is the improvement of the article. Grayfell (talk) 20:44, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

In that case, could you remove the template until the coverage in the article justifies its use? Lmatt (talk) 21:56, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

Reorganizing the article and rewriting the lede

Since it seems that this is a bigger issue than just a navigation template, I have started a new section.

I dispute this rewording. Many sources link the site to racism and anti-Semitism. Some use these specific phrases, and some do not. Many sources do not specifically say racist, but say white supremacist or white nationalist. This is, fundamentally, racist, and this would be the simplest way to summarize this without getting bogged down in euphemisms and word-games. Attributing this description as a quote implies that it is one source's subjective opinion, or that this is an unusual or significant way to describe the site. It is not. We should accept that when many reliable sources describe a topic in a certain way, as a factual matter, they know what they are talking about. Based on these sources, we should summarize in our own words.

As an extension of this, I was planning to expand the article to create a 'content' section, and to move some of the controversies to that section. "Controversies" could then be renamed "notable incidents". Everything about this site is "controversial", including most of the content in the "history" section. Arranging the article in just these two sections is misleading about why the site is notable. By arranging to explain what it actually is, and what is posted on it, and then introducing specific examples, the article will be clearer and more neutral, per WP:CSECTION.

Since this was tripping over edit conflicts, perhaps other people will comment on whether or not this approach makes sense. Grayfell (talk) 21:59, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

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