Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 14:29, 20 December 2006

December 19

Template:USSubway

Template:USSubway (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Doesn't aid in navigation in my opinion. The only designation is that they are all subways. Why would I want to jump from PATH (NY) to the Metro Red Line (LA)? This is better suited for a category rather than a template. --Hbdragon88 22:25, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Template:Latest stable release/Elecard MPEG Player

Template:Latest stable release/Elecard MPEG Player (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Template that seems to be used to record the latest stable release of a non-notable media player. Doesn't seem to be used even in the media player's own article. --NeoChaosX (talk, walk) 20:26, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

• Strong delete - the instructions on the page even say, "go back to the main page". In other words, it's only meant to exist for one page. -Patstuart 04:25, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Template:Doubt

Template:Doubt (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

I found this used in one article and thought it was vandalism, then discovered it is a template. Have no idea what it's for or what it's supposed to mean, but it doesn't seem to be in any other article but this one. --ፈቃደ (ውይይት) 17:55, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

The category it's in, "Translations", hints to me that it's used in translated articles where there's a part that the translator doesn't understand. —AySz88\^-^ 20:52, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

• Delete. No idea how you would use this, even knowing the exact reason it would be used for. -Amarkov _edits 05:13, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Template:Notepage

Links to a page with "notes" about a page. That's what talk pages are for; we don't need to confuse the matter by adding another layer. (Radiant) 13:21, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

• Delete. I don't understand, why would this be useful? -Amarkov _edits 15:03, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
• Delete what the...? Patstuart 04:17, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Template:Silly

Template:Silly (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

A template that's supposed to be put on talk pages of users inserting jokes into Misplaced Pages. Nevertheless, I find it rather offensive, both by it's name and the message header. As I explained on Template talk:Silly, we're supposed to hold higher standards that the people who are vandalising our site. Even if they are idiots, calling them names is still a violation WP:NPA. Миша13 12:38, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

• Delete Миша13 12:38, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
• Keep as creator of the template. This template is meant to be used as a second level warning, after someone who is 'playing around' with Misplaced Pages has been warned with one of the friendlier templates such as Behave and is continuing to make joke articles or edits. It does not call people idiots, it says their behaviour is silly. There's a big difference between those two. The alternative to this would probably be Test2- this is much more informative and positive than that one. StoptheDatabaseState 12:51, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
  • "Please don't be silly" - this phrase alone suggests that the person given the warning is silly. "Silliness doesn't help" can also be read as the receiver's silliness, not his/her actions, as you suggest. Finally, the template is often being used without substitution. If someone were to edit their talk page and find the text {{Silly}} inside they'd have all the right to feel insulted. In short, this template has a big potential of being found offensive by the person receiving it, which is not acceptable. Миша13 13:00, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
    • Whatever, author-delete then. Personally I think "don't be silly" is nothing like "you're an idiot", but if you find it offensive then perhaps it is offensive. It's a bit of a half-way house between a welcome template and a warning template anyway. Perhaps when I can be bothered I'll cannibalise the uncontentious parts of it (i.e. the pictorial links to helpful pages) into a nice welcome template. One lives and learns, in Wiki as in life. StoptheDatabaseState 13:47, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
• Keep - actually I am the creator of this template! - and whatever you think, I think it serves as a friendly and helpful template by bringing in a link to useful parts of the Wiki that newcomers might not be familiar with. Brookie :) - a will o' the wisp ! 14:00, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
• TfD isn't cleanup. Just rewrite it so it doesn't call people names... -Amarkov _edits 15:04, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
• Keep and rewrite if necessary. I'm not sure I see the close connection between "don't be silly" and disparaging the user's intelligence that Misza13 does; any template can be misused for non-intended purposes, it doesn't mean they should be deleted because of that. -- nae'blis 19:14, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
• Keep; it's a nicer first warning than {{Test}}. I don't see it as calling anyone names -- it says their edit was silly, not that they are. --Russ (talk) 22:45, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
• Keep. Good fun and effective. Dfrg.msc 01:45, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
• Keep but rephrase LEAD This template may be used mistakenly in which case it falls foul of WP:BITE. But it looks more friendly then the current warning. frummer 04:36, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Template:Hurricane number storms by month

Template:Hurricane number storms by month (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Incomplete and not properly formatted. It's only used in one article, and even then it doesn't add much to the article. Hasn't been edited in months until today, and is quite simply not worth keeping around. – Chacor 12:05, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. Ck lostsword||_Suggestions? 12:30, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. If it's only used in a single article, should just be a table within that page. Straightforward to copy/paste to List of notable Atlantic hurricanes? --DeLarge 12:33, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, personally I don't think this data is even worthy of inclusion in the article; a straight delete of this table seems fine to me. If it was in the article as a table I'd remove it. Nevermind the poor formatting and inappropriate use of template space...--Nilfanion (talk) 12:37, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
• Subst and delete, although this may be more suitable for Atlantic hurricane. Titoxd 00:23, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. Hurricanehink (talk) 00:41, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. NRV. Dfrg.msc 01:43, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
• Delete: It's not complete and looks too fancy. RaNdOm26 03:59, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
• Subst and delete - let the people watching the article decide to remove it. -Patstuart 04:19, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Template:User fil

Template:User fil (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Duplicate of Template:User tl. Can be deleted speedily via WP:GUS. --Howard the Duck 11:28, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

• Keep. How is Filipino a duplicate of Tagalog? -Amarkov _edits 15:05, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
• Keep. Yes, how is Filipino a duplicate of Tagalog? { PMGOMEZ } 15:12, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
• Keep and improve. Filipino is different from Tagalog. --Mithril Cloud 17:05, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
• Comment. I won't comment on Tagalog vs. Filipino (or, more specifically, if they are the same or different) since, arguably, it's a debatable topic (at least, the debates still go on and on in schools and in the public opinion). However, to prevent this template from being deleted, I would suggest that this user box be moved to any user's own userspace per the German Userspace solution project instead of keeping this in the general Template namespace. --- Tito Pao 17:21, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
  • I think that we try to follow the ISO codes for Babel, and the ISO lists them as seperate. -Amarkov _edits 05:15, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
    • Keep. Indeed. "For the most part, the two and three letter codes are taken from ISO 639," ... Ref: List_of_ISO_639-2_codes, ISO_639:f#fil ... { PMGOMEZ } 06:39, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
• Keep. Not debatable topic.

1. Filipino has it's own ISO code (fil). Thus, different from Tagalog.
2. There's a Komisyon sa Wikang Filipino, which specifically states that Filipino is a language on its own.
3. Public records show Filipino as a separate language, way back to the time of President Quezon.

209.8.41.106 01:47, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

• I was planning to withdraw this, expecting this'll be GUSed. But at least make it appear like other language user templates. --Howard the Duck 12:04, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
• Comment. I suggest using {{Userbox}} rather than {{Userbox-r}} for consistency with other userboxes. --Mithril Cloud 12:19, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
• Reply to comments. Ah. I purposely used Userbox-r such that it may be distinct. Actually, could someone hack up code that'll automate the placement of the ID? That way, it's up to the user to choose which side he/she wants the ID to be on. { PMGOMEZ } 12:54, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Template:Current-ScoutingCOTM

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more templates or modules. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was kept per withdrawl of nomination{{subst:#ifeq:|y| ~~~~}} -- nae'blis 00:49, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Template:Current-ScoutingCOTM (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

• KeepDelete WP:ASR Rlevse 11:25, 19 December 2006 (UTC)...keep as I know where they go now-;)! Rlevse 21:37, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
• Keep By stating that a specific article is the current collaboration subject, we are also implying that the content of the article will be updated frequently while the collaboration is in effect. In that sense, it is the same as {{current}}. Slambo (Speak) 12:04, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
• Put it on talkpages, but keep. Collaboration templates are inappropriate for mainspace. -Amarkov _edits 15:07, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
• Keep, I have moved the only articlespace entry to talk page. Rlevse just found out these were supposed to go on talk pages, and may come and withdraw these soon. -- nae'blis 20:42, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template or module's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Template:Armenian capitals

Template:Armenian capitals (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Delete Template is distruptive and axactly will create edit-rv wars, in related articles. There is one capital for one country, to add other countries's cities as capitals of Armenia is a Strong nationalist approach. Must 11:12, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Please explain exactly how this template is "disruptive" and how it will create POV wars. The way I see it, the fact that these cities were indeed former Armenian capitals is an undisputed fact. -- Clevelander 21:03, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

• Comment - this seems to be part of a larger tendency to create a huge lot of new navbox templates, many of which tend to create additional NPOV problems. Especially in Middle-East and Central-Asia related domains, I've observed a trend for "national" templates to be created and to be perceived by POV-warring groups of editors as attempts at "laying claim" to some article on behalf of some nation, leading to conflicts of "staking out turf". While this overall trend is troublesome, I don't think this particular template is among the worst. Fut.Perf. ☼ 12:00, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Actually this template wasn't created with the goal to starting NPOV problems. It was actually inspired by a similar one on Russian Misplaced Pages. See here. -- Clevelander 21:03, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

It is hard not to agree with your observations, that kind of "staking out turf" attitude is mostly generated towards Turkey's borders for historical, political and emotional reasons. And although this one may not be the worst, something should be done for a start.--Doktor Gonzo 14:38, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Heh, you missed the subtlety in my argument... ;-) I didn't say "staking out turf", I said "perceived by POV-warriors" as staking-out turf. It's the kind of conflict where it takes two to tango, and we have very similar conflicts the other way round too, and probably worse (Template:Turkic-speaking comes to mind.) Fut.Perf. ☼ 16:41, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

I know what you meant and was speaking wikipedia-wise. Or maybe I didn't understand, did you understand what I meant? ;) It may take 2 to tango but just 1 to breakdance, write that down!--Doktor Gonzo 17:27, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

• Delete This is a template for Strong nationalist aims. not for giving information to people--Trichnosis 12:05, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Please explain the "strong nationalistic aims" of this template. -- Clevelander 21:03, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

This template wreaks of irredentist concepts..

How exactly so? Is this template claiming outright that Turkey or any other nation should cede territory to Armenia? -- Clevelander 11:41, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

"Armenian capitals"? There is only one country Armenia as defined by intl law. Tagging other cities in other countries is simply misguided. The history of these cities are talked about in the main and History of Armenia also includes references to them. So what is the point of the template except WP:POINT? Is there a template "Capitals of Turks"? or "Capitals of Germania"? Baristarim 00:34, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Precisely why I propose we keep the template and rename it to "former Armenian capitals." -- Clevelander 11:41, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

• Delete It looks like that this article has no purpose at all. Capitals can be given (and indeed are given) in an article of History of Armenia, along with the names of the states. There is no need to include such a template. Thanks Caglarkoca 14:42, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

• Delete Change it to Ancient Armenian Capitals or Ancient Armenian cities or something. Armenian capitals can be misguiding.--Doktor Gonzo 14:38, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
• Comment I would not object a list of Ancient Armenian States, just like the List of Turkic states and empires. (It is pitty that there is debate for the deletion of this page though) Capitals can be given by the names of the states and it will be a useful directory page. Caglarkoca 14:46, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. Who defines the Armenian people, past the country itself? -Amarkov _edits 15:08, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

What on earth are you talking about? -- Clevelander 21:03, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

It is the UN maps that define Armenia in any case.Baristarim 03:12, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

I think he was asking "who defines the Armenian people" not "who defines Armenia". In any case, the question made little sense when applied to this discussion. -- Clevelander 11:41, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

• Strong Keep I don't understand why all the Turks are voting to delete. All those cities were at once capitals of Armenia right? I sure as hell hope none of you are disputing that. So what's wrong with a template? There is already a ctegory listing btw that has been around for a year, so why not a template? --Eupator 16:02, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
  • How did it occur to you that calling people who disagree Turks would help your case? -Amarkov _edits 16:06, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
    • 4 out 5 votes to Delete are Turkish. Is calling someone a Turk an insult now?--Eupator 20:36, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
    • Maybe because it did before--Doktor Gonzo 17:21, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
      • Such low self esteem!--Eupator 20:41, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
        • Do not make this personal. I can also say that nearly all of the keep, and particularly "strong keep", votes are from Armenians. Do not go in that territory by implying that there is some sort of gang at work. It is very unencyclopedic. Capitals of Armenia? Capitals of Armenians, maybe.. This template is riddled with pan-Armenian irredentist concepts. Can I create a template "Capitals of Slavs"? or "Capitals of Germania" and tag them all over the place? Would you support the inclusion of a "template:Capitals of Turks" tag to tens of cities across Eurasia? How irredentist is that?Baristarim 00:34, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
• Keep. Unlike many crufty templates created nowadays, this one is useful and does not duplicate categorization. Should be renamed "Historical Armenian capitals", however. --Ghirla 16:16, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment: Actually, it does duplicate categorization, just as Eupator pointed out above: Category:Former capitals of Armenia. Fut.Perf. ☼ 16:41, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

• Strong keep and rename. I did not create this template to offend the Turkish people or to push any sort of "strong nationalistic Armenian aim". I created it for historical reference only. I think that the core issue here is not the template itself, but rather its name which could have been misinterpreted. So, I propose that we not only keep this template but rename it to "Former Armenian capitals." That's fair isn't it? -- Clevelander 18:35, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

• • Dear Clevelander, I am (ofcourse all contributors here) ready to assume good faith.But please follow these;
    • You had logged in with your IP and remove some comments from here(with a rv-summary as Rv anon vandalism. Here that comments again;

      • You are non-truthful. You are catched by yourself. Here; the first header of template(You created it)The 12 capitals of Armenia and that version included Yerevan. Now; There are two possibilities;

        1-You are Liar; since you stated that this template aims to give info about ancient history,

        2-Yerevan is a former capital of Armenia.

        Please note; the name of Template is Armenian Capitals not ancient capitals not former capitals.

        81.213.210.119 23:06, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

    • Dear Clevelander, where is vandalism here. Good points about template and the idea behind it.
    • You posted a message to here;

      • Francis, could you close this on the basis on no concensus. ****::It doesn't seem to be going anywhere (most of the votes in favor of deleting it are from Turkish users while most in favor of keeping it are Armenian users). The easiest solution, in my opinion would be to rename the template to "Former Armenian capitals." Best,

        Clevelander 12:33, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

    • What is the idea motivated you to close this TfD, how you decide no concensus, how you impose an idea on behalf of all users contribute here.
    • All of them is a good faith or what?
    • RegardsMust 14:29, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Does the term "capital" have any meaning in a medieval context? Also, no single settlement was ever the "capital" of all of Armenia, so does the template have validity? Meowy 21:12, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

• Keep and Rename. I don't think there should be anthing offensive to the Turks about this template. I think this template is very informative and useful and should not be deleted. Maybe the name might be little offensive than it should be changed to "Former Armenian capitals". ROOB323 21:42, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

On the basis of what? This creates a huge confusion for uninformed readers who are likely to confuse the country Armenia as defined by intl law, and many historical theories. The mains of the article include their history. If this isn't pan-X-ism, I don't know what is.Baristarim 00:17, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Exactly why, and AGAIN I say this, that it should be renamed to "former Armenian capitals" - yeesh! -- Clevelander 11:41, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

• Delete Can I create a template "Capitals of Turks" and paste it over it tens of cities in Eurasia? If I ever did that, the insults of pan-Turkism would start blowing in a second. Same for "template: capitals of Germans" or "Capitals of Slavic Europe". There is no need for such template except WP:POINT. The Armenian heritage of those cities in question are extensively dealt with in the main. Besides, this would be very confusing for the uninformed reader since Armenia is also a sovereign state and a member of UN as defined by international law. I am also against any template like "capitals of Turks" or anything similar. The history sections of these articles in question are adequate to cover the subject matter in question. Baristarim 21:52, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Again, this is why I say it should be renamed to "former Armenian capitals." -- Clevelander 11:41, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

• Comment It is kind of funny to see that most of the people that said it should this template should be "deleted" because it offends the Turks, but on the List of Turkic states and empires everyone of you said that the articel should be kept. Can someone explain to me why is that? ROOB323 22:06, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Slavic Europe, Germanic Europe, Latin Europe, Arab world and etc articles also exist. This is not the same thing. This template is "Armenian capitals". What is that supposed to mean? If there were ever a template "Capitals of Turkey" or "Capitals of Turks" that was created to tag cities thousands of km from Turkey just because they were the capital of a 13th century Turkic princedom, I would vote delete for that as well..Baristarim 00:17, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

• Keep this proposal seems like trolling, "There is one capital for one country" at a time. --An account 23:25, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

? I am not quite sure that I am following you. Baristarim 00:17, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

• Comment I propose renaming it with Ancient Armenian States and their Capitals. (Or an equivelant, but better organised one.) Only the name Armenian capitals is not useful at all. Caglarkoca 01:49, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Template:WPMILHIST Collaboration

Template:WPMILHIST Collaboration (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Delete WP:ASR --Shywun 09:04, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

• Keep By stating that a specific article is the current collaboration subject, we are also implying that the content of the article will be updated frequently while the collaboration is in effect. In that sense, it is the same as {{current}}. Slambo (Speak) 12:04, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
• Keep, it's a standard collaboration template, similar to the dozens in use; it's also no more a self-reference than the variety of other banners occasionally found at the top of articles. Kirill Lokshin 13:45, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
• Put it on talkpages, inappropriate for mainspace. -Amarkov _edits 15:09, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
• Keep; I moved the only articlespace instance to talk page; can we close this now, Shywun? -- nae'blis 19:17, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Template:Current-ScoutingSATM

Template:Current-ScoutingSATM (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Delete WP:ASR --Shywun 08:59, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

• Put it on talkpages, inappropriate for mainspace. -Amarkov _edits 15:09, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
• Keep, only articlespace instance now moved to talk page. Seems to be a standard collaboration message, just put in the wrong place. -- nae'blis 19:31, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
• Keep, yes, the Scouting project won't use them in the wrong spot anymore.Rlevse 21:36, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
• Keep, useful. Dfrg.msc 01:23, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Template:Long

Template:Long (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Template:Verylong (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Template:Intro length (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Template:LEAD (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

These templates address metadata (information about the article, not the content). That topic (about the style of the article) belongs on the talk page but these templates are only useful for creating a category which can be browsed (see Category:Articles that are too long which is monitored for backlogs). Currently, it is not a practise to place maintenance tags on the talk page, except in to-do lists. If placed on the talk page, the templates will be forgotten or archived creating false positive backlog numbers. ·maclean 04:21, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

• Keep. Many, many cleanup templates exist, and they're not inappropriate, for the reasons you state against putting them on talk pages. -Amarkov _edits 05:13, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
• Keep, as I've tagged an article with Template:Verylong; see British Caledonian which is 202.9kB as I write this -- the biggest non-list article on WP? I don't think the template would serve as useful a purpose on the talk page. --DeLarge 10:36, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
• Keep per Amarkov. Ck lostsword||_Suggestions? 12:28, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
• Keep; this is a useful cleanup flag. -- Beland 16:47, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
• Keep - it addresses a problem in the article as much as {{sections}} or any other cleanup template. When I pull up a 100KB article, my eyes start to glaze over, and I'm not sure that it's not appropriate to have it that long. This way, it informs the reader of the problems, as well as the writers of the article, just like the other templates. -Patstuart 17:24, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
• These templates ask the user (editor or not) at a very popular position to split the article. It is mentioned how to do it, but currently there isn't a notice on how to do it correctly (read: follow the rules of the GFDL). Fix that issue or delete this misleading templates. --32X 20:14, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
• Keep. Deleting it and its redirected links do not make sense. They are very useful when there are long articles such as Wheel of Fortune (US game show). --Gh87 21:22, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
• Strong deleteaccording to maclean above Mak82hyd 22:35, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
• Strong Keep Useful and effective for clean up tasks. Dfrg.msc 01:25, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
• Strong Keep, when an article needs to be cleaned up, then it needs to be cleaned up. Misplaced Pages will never reach a closing date, scientific understanding isn't stagnant and we keep on making new finds, so too about history and every other encyclopedic entry. "Native editors" don't always like tags, and sometimes articles are wrongly tagged or overloaded with tags, but those issues have to dealt with separately. frummer 04:33, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

comment somehow "template:lead" fell into this nom, not sure if it was intentional but it has its own category, which is Category:Misplaced Pages introduction cleanup.

• Keep Useful template. Beit Or 10:23, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

1. Misplaced Pages:Babel