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Southern Rhodesia draft:

Southern Rhodesia draft discussion

Sadly, untouched since August. Please write comments on it in this space. El_C

The 1923 Constitution and the British veto

lthough I don't know squat about the history of Southern Rhodesia, your article on the subject has raised the following question in my mind. "Britain could still veto the decisions of its government when it came to 'Native Affairs,' a veto which Great Britain never saw fit to exercize." How was that veto supposed to work? Would it have required a vote in parliament? --Christofurio 16:42, Nov 13, 2004

Someone read my Southern Rhodesia draft, yes! No, I believe that the British Governor in Southern Rhodesia would have advised the British Cabinet (Colonial and/or Dominion Offices). It is somewhat confusing because there is another set of legislation the British could theortically employ which superceded the 1923 Const. Under the '1961 Constitution' of the CAF, unlike the 1923 one, Britain could not block discriminatory legislations, rather, appeals to the quasi-British (In London, but Commonwealth membership) 'Judicial Committee of the Privy Council' could be made on an individual (submitted by individuals) basis. This, argues James Barber (Rhodesia, pp. 96-98), was not, however, the case. While not included in Duncan Sandy’s document (British Commonwealth Secretary, architect of the 1961 Const.), since Southern Rhodesia itself was still formally a British colony, Britain could still override legislations through 'the Colonial Laws Validity Act of 1865.' Sandys appears to agree. Thus, with respect to British law, the specific Self-Governing arrangments (1923) were more good-faith than truly legally binding for Britain. Thanks for taking the time to read my SR draft! El_C

Collaboration with Scuzz138

Hey El C, I got your message about the Rhodesia article and im more than happy to help with the article anytime as long as its fair, which I trust it will be. In fact ill probably start the section about the military history tonight since I dont have to study.

Anyway, Is there anything about the counter insurgency or nationalists that you'd like to know in a little greater detail? If so, drop me a line at scuzz138-àt-cfl.rr.com so I can get back to you quickly. Also do you want me to use the old Colonial Names for towns and villages or the post-independence Shona names? Scuzz138

Hi, Scuzz138. I am looking forward to collaborating with you on the Rhodesia series of articles. Yes, it will be fair, and I think thus far it (the draft) is. Please read it closely, afterwhich, I encourage you to modify and edit it as you see fit (or you can write you own draft/s and we could work on integrating these – whatever's good for you, I'm flexible). More than anything, my draft right now needs completion on the BSA Co era, so any help on this front will be greatly appreciated. Back to fairness, I would like to point out that I attempt to leave the politics and polemics to talk pages, and for articles, I aim for consensus. Don't take my word for it, review some the articles listed on my user page, I believe you will find that virtually all the articles I authored or made significant contributions to enjoy overwhleming consensus (and these, like Rhodesia, include controversial areas of study). Periodization-wise, I am not yet at the stage where I am writing on the counter-insurgency aspect, but when I do, I will certainly take advantage of your knowledge in this area. As for the names, I think the correct way to note these would be to use the colonial names and in parentheses the Shona ones for the first time any of these are mentioned; and from then on, just the colonial names (without parentheses). Certainly, I may take you on your offer and email you if the need arises – and I extend the same to you (my email address for the wikipedia email function is valid, so feel free to use it).

More thoughts soon. Best Regards, El_C

I'm more than happy to collaborate in either form, usually im better when I already have something to work with and can modify it to include more information so we'll probably use your drafts as the basis and go from there until we have a finished work.

Now to answer your questions, my expertise is with post-UDI Rhodesia and the ZANU and ZAPU militias but I do know a little bit about the Federation's security services and to answer your question about Troop deployments within the CAF aside from the Miner's strike, I dont believe the Federation troops, ever served as more than what we'd call Peacekeepers nowadays during the uprisings in Nyasaland. They were also used in internal security functions similar to the United States National Guard, like as strikebreakers, police, and as border-guards throughout major border crossings into the Federation. Aside from that im not really sure about the Federation troops during the political collapse of the Federation, if they had a role in it, and what happened to them after the Federation split up, such as if they were integrated into the new national Armies in post-CAF states.

Now Territorial troops from Southern Rhodesia, had a fairly limited but highly effective role in the Malayan Emergency, which is actually where and why the famous(or infamous) Selous Scouts and what would become the Rhodesian SAS were formed, it gave their soldiers vital practical experience in unconventional warfare and pseudo-terrorist operational procedure which would serve them quite well during the chimurenga war a few years later.

More soon.

Oh and I noticed that one of the images of the Rhodesian Flag is missing on the draft article, If you're missing the 1965-1980 flag, I have an image of it and I can add it to the article if you'd like.

User:Scuzz138

Hi. I uploaded the 1965-1968 flag on Aug., and the 1968-1979 one was already uploaded, both are in the current Rhodesia article, but note that my SR draft deals with Southern Rhodesia up to the CAF, whereas the Rhodesia draft (yet to be written) will cover (Southern –Northern no longer– mostly UDI) Rhodesia up to Z-R and Zimbabwe independence. Anyway, I am alright on the flag front, but what I do need is images of notable people, places, and maps. So, if you come across any of these, they could really enhance the article(s).

Thanks for confirming what I thought was the nature of Federal troops within the CAF and their deployment at uprisings consisted of. If you know how many Federal viz. Territorial troops there were (and maybe a brief overview for the composition of the latter), that would be useful; as would a more detailed account of the uprisings in Nyasaland. As for Territorial troops involvement in the British-MRLA conflict (which, admittedly, I know little about) leading to the formation of the Selous Scouts, that certainly could be mentioned (though, number of troops deployed should be noted, if not scope of operations – which could be outlined in the Selous Scouts article, barely a substub). Likewise, counterinsurgency role played (by them, and others) in the Chimurenga war is clearly historically notable and I planned on accounting for it (now with your help) in the Rhodesia draft.

A few words on that. I don't think I will start the Rhodesia article draft until the Southern Rhodesia one is complete, so it might be a while – largely depending how long it will take for the BSA Co. section in the SR draft to crystalize. In a sense, I authored the CAF article largely towards this end (it, in itself, I consider rather draft-like), as a chronological middle-ground, but I feel, for my own orientation with the material, that I must start from the beginning.

At any rate, I will give you time to acquaint yourself with my SR draft and CAF article, and I am looking forward to learning your thoughts on these. El_C

Archived Discussions

Archive

Self-suspension from article contributions

In sympathy with Comrade Shorne's seemingly-sealed predicament, I am suspending myself from all article contributions until further notice. Out. El_C

2005 Addendum

I am hereby lifting total self-suspension. I feel uneasy that my original (Aug) Rhodesia series has been long overdue. Henceforth, I will begin contributing to Rhodesia-related articles only. Namely, continuing with writing the current draft (or additional one) for the rewrite(s); acquainting myself with the existing articles and its forumaltion/ediotrial histories, and seeing how best these can be combined/integrated. As always, I welcome and encourage feedback on all these fronts (esp. the draft/s). Slightly in. El_C 02:46, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Article Licensing

Moved to User talk:El C/Article Licensing. El_C

Oubangui-Chari map again

You may be amused by the results of my investigation, recorded at Image talk:Oubangui-Chari.jpg. Who needs state archives when you've got ephemera collectors! :-) Stan 17:54, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)

That is hysterical! I certainly did not expect the source to be that (of all things). Well done, Stan, I really appreciate your efforts (and the good chuckle!). El_C

Smiling

Just a quick note, El C, to say how much I enjoy your posts when I see them. I've just spotted your entry in an edit history "I'm disendorsing Raul & Blankfaze's disendorsments, though not negating the negation," which I got a lot of pleasure from, and I have fond memories of a correction you made to one editor's angry insult of another (I paraphrase), "in hopes of seeing gramatically correct personal attacks." That one still brings a smile to my face. :-) Slim 14:12, Dec 22, 2004 (UTC)

Thank you so much, Slim, for the very kind words! I think the reason I'm still here, despite all the ideological constraints I percieve (and protests thereof), is that there are, nonetheless, interesting, engaging people (and note that I have a fairly short attention span and get bored very easily) here editing the eyncyclopedia, irrespective of ideology. You can count yourself among these. In the few months I have been contributing to WP, I have gotten some very enocuraging feedback from several reputable editors (such as yourself), and I just wanted to note, in this extension, that I greatly value these responses and it is, in fact, a pivotal reason as to why I am still here. Thanks again! Cordially & sincerely yours, El_C

172's courageous ArbCom candidacy

It took a lot of courage for you to run under the current political climate, 172. A belated thanks! I just saw the message. I must've overlooked it earlier. It was more foolishness than courage, though... 172 04:26, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Heh, perhaps. Either way, I view it as a highly creditable effort on your part and I sympathize with what, in turn, you had to endure from certain opponents. El_C

Apocalypse

I appreciate the note, I will look into it more. I think more than anything else it reveals how cosmopolitan Hellenistic Near East was, Slrubenstein 17:57, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)

My pleasure. I hope it proves useful. El_C

Happy New Year to you

I hope 2005's a good one for you, El C! All the best, Slim 03:51, Jan 2, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks, Slim! I hope it turns out to be a good one for you, too! Best regards, El_C

Fair and Balanced

Thanks for the humorous anecdote. I needed it... After all, this should be a humorous affair. My work on Russia, such as on History of post-Soviet Russia is consistently loaded with citations from leading Western think-tanks dominated by neoliberals and/or neoconservatives, such as the Carnegie Center, Jamestown Foundation, and Brookings. I refer to notable Cold Warriors like Paul Gregory and Anders Åslund. Shorne and Ruy Lopez should be the ones forcing me to abide by NPOV! They should be ones challenging my sources! But judging by my experiences over the past two years, I suspect that Libertas will convince a number of users that I 'exclusively use Marxist sources' (as if he even understands the role of Marxism in academia). The most active, vocal, and vitriolic on Misplaced Pages are the ones heard in the end... I don't know how long I can deal with this. I'm rapidly losing patience for this project. Happy New Year. 172 12:01, 5 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Happy New Year! You have my sympathies for being forced to endure such brutish and crude (and humorless) neoliberal political agitation, with all the personal attacks which such a campaign always entails. From the left, we have lost Shorne, it seems; and now from the moderate left, we face losing you. Make no mistakes though, driving you out is exactly what these agitators wish for – not only that, they will prey on the moderate right, also. Their aim is to have their POV dominanting (they are largely successful) for a Fair and Balanced WP. El_C

Father forgive us for we have sinned
we traded our soul for just a little powedered gold
just one of many sins
we stood by and let the wicked and the greedy win
we enslaved women
we cut the forests of millions
we imprisoned the free in cages
slaughtered the animals
Daddy we killed the world some more
for my selfishness and greed
cannibal

User:GrazingshipIV

All of my interactions with GrazingshipIV were favorable, perhaps leaving me biased. But I try to judge users and act as an admin on a case-by-case basis. I favor cutting slack to users of all stripes that are knowledgeable and contribute factual content. For example, I stated support for TDC a few times. During the Arbcom race, I also spoke out against sanctions against both VeryVerily and Shorne. So I don't know if it's fair to call me an inclusionist of the left. 172 16:55, 6 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Sure, I wasn't questioning that aspect, actually. I did not, in fact, intended on employing the term 'inclusionist' beyond that (aforementioned) type of interaction, but I should have better qualified this. I responded on User talk:GrazingshipIV, I hope it helps to better elucidate my point. Cordially & sincerely yours, El_C

Voting in progress

Please express your opinion at Talk:Israeli violence against Palestinian children#Article title (poll). Thanks. ←Humus sapiens←Talk 10:38, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Done. What a saga, sheesh. Thank you for informing me of this vote, likely I would have missed it otherwise. Regards, El_C 23:57, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Great, because I hesitated to bother many people. You may want to include WP:RFC, WP:CS, WP:CFD, WP:VFD, WP:RM into your watchlist. Cheers. ←Humus sapiens←Talk 04:57, 13 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Sorry, I overlooked your response. Feel free to 'bother' me anytime, though I am afraid my watchlist is cluttered as it is and adding these items to it might overload some circuits in my fragile mind. Regards, El_C 12:17, 17 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Why was "violence against" dropped?

We've had long discussions, and (I thought) reached consensus. "Violence against" inherently means "intentional", which is highly POV and needs proof. When 95% of Palestinian fatalities are male but the article focuses on children, it smells like old blood libel. BTW, I also moved Palestinian violence against Israeli children. ←Humus sapiens←Talk 11:32, 17 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the really prompt response, Humus sapiens. I applaud the merger (I have for long argued for it), and am pleased to see it take place. I responded with greater detail on your user talk page. El_C 12:10, 17 Jan 2005 (UTC)

The missing U

Thanks for the tip about the "u" in the e-mail address, El C. I had, in fact, already sent it, but it seemed to arrive, albeit u-less. They must have some sort of redirect arrangement so that those spelling Ohio correctly are redirected to the ones in charge, who refuse to do likewise. Hope you are wellu. Best, SlimVirgin 06:11, Jan 17, 2005 (UTC)

Heh, you made me chuckle, you! All the best, El_C 08:00, 17 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Names of God

RE: your comments in Peer Review for Names of God in Judaism.

Thank you for the comments. Feel free to come around and do some edits as per your comments. Just please keep the Ref and Biblio separated as it is customary (Refs are that: referred in the article, Biblio is generic stuff that is supportive of the text.) --Zappaz 06:03, 18 Jan 2005 (UTC)

It's my pleasure, Zappaz, I hope it proves useful. Sorry, writing in haste. I'll return with more substantive thoughts soon. Thanks. El_C 12:31, 18 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Sockpuppets are requested not to get above themselves

El C, your bitterness at being named as 172's sockpuppet, as opposed to 172 being named as yours, is most unbecoming. Your chance to control a sockpuppet of your own will come one day soon, I am sure, when others judge you worthy of it. In the meantime, a little humility would be most appreciated. I thank you. SlimVirgin 23:04, Jan 20, 2005 (UTC)

Wise, balanced and most unironic words from one of –my– sockpuppets! (I'm not schizophrenic, and neither am I! Nor am I paranoid, it's just that everybody's out to get me!). Cordially & sincerely yours, El_C 00:51, 21 Jan 2005 (UTC)

If you want me as a sockpuppet you can have me, but I will get you into lots of trouble. :-) SlimVirgin 01:04, Jan 21, 2005 (UTC)

I'm out for consultations (with myself!) :p El_C 01:59, 21 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Conflict

I am afraid I don't understand your question on my talk page! Slrubenstein 18:06, 22 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Oh, sweet! El_C 01:52, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I lift the shroud and make the masses proud
Crush our enemies,
Are you gonna ride with me?
Or sit in your materialistic moyogi

Race to our grave
how much more could I have gave
to the insatiable assassins that are forever laughing
like an atom cracking,
will we ever be saved?
With landmines not gold my future is paved,
love in my heart but not racist-ly raised
You want back but you never gave,
you think you're prince but you're really nave – sissy,
I bet you think you're brave
playing broke, stack your loot
the cream you save,
body boarding on light's way
The rich taunt me
specter of bill collectors haunt me
The fates of the greats leaves me undaunted
socialist dazzle mother****er and I flaunt it
Class equality and abolish poverty – I want it 

Preach knowledge with no answer, 
you speak in tongues
climb life's ladder and it has no wrongs 
My old-school compadres are spun

The rich steal my labour and my health
to bag their wealth
They got us ass backwards 
fight for the self
and not the masses,
they got us right in Congress
Anything but abolish the classes
Anything but rocking the vote of our masters
Mother****ers telling me that my vote is the answer
You simple fools
I duel your revisionism tools
You leer,
indegenous people fuc**n with cheap beer
sniffing glue,
redestroyed their world – what would you do?
My African comrades
Killed by disease and nationalism
our motherland raped and beaten by this giant mob
capitalism
Spewing fumes of death-smoke, we choke 
on consumer goods
like gunpowder-fed pits,
we kill each other in our own hoods
More and more are forced to settle in the ghetto
we whore and horde to pay the rent and fill the kettle
The rich test our mettle 
I'm an avalanche started by a pebble
I throw a rock at the devil
I rebel
In politics I meddle 
past lives several 

Esoterics,
yes, I dabble 
control the rabble 
false prophets praddle 
the lumpen cut down like cattle
In the street we battle
the bourgeois we rattle
Lift the curse
check em down from their perch  
For the truth we search at birth,
living together in harmony
I never understand why you just can't see
We'll kill you just like we did the Nazi
Let's clean the names 
of the heroes the rich besmirched
Spiritualism is valid
just make it an equal portion of the salad
Life is callous 
mass confusion
cats living in delusion
stalled evolution
each breath I taste pollution
no respect for women, 
just a cushion for the pushin'  
Lions laid and wait
and ambushes from the bushes
Watch how hard this player pushes through
in and out a pussy like a douche
he rush your tw*t like swat
he makes more than your pussy pop
leave you broken 
All to say is bambaclat

I mark 
rats, rapists, police agents and snitches
Subject deep lyrics vicious
pockets broke
mental riches
rathead bitches
capitalistic wishes
personal issues
You've never heard words like these
they're free so don’t say please
you're the host of degree disease 
Stay clam
smoke balm 
you better sound the alarm
Revolution's cold so dress warm
like millions of locus we swarm
the children of corn
destroy child porn
Heed to seed our plant
feel the impression of my stamp
--Comrade Zearle.