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Revision as of 00:27, 30 November 2020 editBus stop (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers44,012 editsNo edit summary← Previous edit Revision as of 00:46, 30 November 2020 edit undoKoncorde (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users10,360 edits →Statement by Bus stopNext edit →
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====Statement by Bus stop==== ====Statement by Bus stop====
May I weigh in here? I am currently ]. I am especially horrified by the administrators here—{{u|Liz}}, {{u|Bishonen}}, {{u|Cullen328}}. Misplaced Pages is going to become a ] screed. Nothing but polemic will populate our pages. Opposition should be welcomed. Instead you are silencing people. An article should reflect an adherence to reliable sources and consensus. When you ban people you reduce the likelihood of ever attaining the admittedly elusive ]. Administrators should be rejecting this sort of ] which aims to silence opposing voices. ] (]) 00:27, 30 November 2020 (UTC) May I weigh in here? I am currently ]. I am especially horrified by the administrators here—{{u|Liz}}, {{u|Bishonen}}, {{u|Cullen328}}. Misplaced Pages is going to become a ] screed. Nothing but polemic will populate our pages. Opposition should be welcomed. Instead you are silencing people. An article should reflect an adherence to reliable sources and consensus. When you ban people you reduce the likelihood of ever attaining the admittedly elusive ]. Administrators should be rejecting this sort of ] which aims to silence opposing voices. ] (]) 00:27, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
:The subject of this request has already posited his opposition to "an adherence to reliable sources and consensus" and advocated the use of the least reliable sources currently being promoted. This somewhat renders your argument moot.
:If they were presenting reliable sources that said "woah, look at the mountains of evidence!" clearly we would reflect it. But that isn't what is happened, or is happening. ] (]) 00:46, 30 November 2020 (UTC)


===Result concerning Yurivict=== ===Result concerning Yurivict===

Revision as of 00:46, 30 November 2020

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    Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Bus stop

    Appeal declined. Bus stop is advised to make constructive contributions in other topic areas for a minimum of six months, without engaging in bludgeoning, before filing another appeal. The "unofficial grace period" for this topic ban ends, effective immediately, and any future topic ban violations will be met with blocks. — Newslinger talk 15:12, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved administrators" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.

    To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).

    Appealing user
    Bus stop (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
    Sanction being appealed
    Topic ban from the American politics topic area, imposed at User talk:Bus stop#Notice that you are now subject to an arbitration enforcement topic ban as a result of Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1052#User:Bus stop bludgeoning discussion at Talk:Parler, logged at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration enforcement log#American politics 2
    Administrator imposing the sanction
    Bishonen (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)
    Notification of that administrator
    The appealing editor is asked to notify the administrator who made the enforcement action of this appeal, and then to replace this text with a diff of that notification. The appeal may not be processed otherwise. If a block is appealed, the editor moving the appeal to this board should make the notification.

    Statement by Bus stop

    I am requesting a review of my topic ban. Some information on that can be found here. I've already requested a review of my topic ban here. The ANI thread is here. My commitment of course is not to WP:BLUDGEON in the future. If this is the wrong place to be posting this or if I've posted this improperly, please bring this to my attention. Bus stop (talk) 02:27, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

    Not sure what the proper procedure here is. But GorillaWarfare is asking if "they genuinely can't see their own behavior for what it is". I am admitting to the charge of WP:BLUDGEON. Therefore I am seeing the reason for the topic ban for "what it is". There are a multitude of points on a political spectrum represented by the editors here. Disagreement is hardly out of the ordinary. But overaggressiveness is not welcome. I apologize for my repetitiveness and vociferousness and I commit to more moderate speech. Thank you for the adjustment to the way I formatted this, GorillaWarfare, and I am now notifying Bishonen. Bus stop (talk) 03:17, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
    Mandruss—how am I making myself "seem the aggrieved party"? By admitting wrongdoing? I participated in an overly aggressive way at Talk:Parler and I am committed to not participating in an overly aggressive way in the future at any article's Talk page. This I am stating sincerely. I don't know why you are referring to anything I have said as "boilerplate". I can't state what I am stating more clearly. Bus stop (talk) 04:28, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
    I am responding to you, Mandruss, as opposed to debating you. I am simply saying I did not present myself as "the aggrieved party". Bus stop (talk) 04:42, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
    Mandruss—it would not be "obtuse" of me to point out that just because you perceive something as "boilerplate" that it actually is "boilerplate". Bus stop (talk) 05:07, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
    JzG—your input is over the top. It is too much of a bother to track down your offenses. You've said "These are prominent radical right figures whose response to protests over the killing of Black people is to downplay them, the "all lives matter" approach." That is found here. You are an administrator? You wrote ""If black lives mattered to Black Lives Matter, they would be protesting outside of Planned Parenthood" casts BLM in the light of the hyper-privileged mindset of anti-abortion activism." Same page. "To place anti-abortionism, as Kirk does, above the murder of Black Americans by police, is grotesque. Kirk opposes the death penalty but only because it is more expensive than life in prison. He doesn't seem to care very much about non-privileged lives." Same page. You are not cognizant this is an encyclopedia. You refer to Andy Ngo as a "neo-fascist apologist". What? You should be banned before I am banned. Bus stop (talk) 10:10, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
    Starship.paint—does it not occur to you that administrators, some of them, are part of the problem? I cannot be trusted but an administrator using this platform, combined with their authority, to launch verbal diarrhea such as references to "the hyper-privileged mindset of anti-abortion activism" can be trusted? I fail to understand that. I am saying "I commit to no more bludgeoning". That is plain English. As Boing! said Zebedee correctly points out, I have said it before. I am saying it now. The English language does not change, at least not in this short amount of time. Is JzG even addressing their association of "anti-abortion activism" with "hyper-privilege", which sounds suspiciously like white privilege? JzG is an administrator who needs their wings clipped. Bus stop (talk) 14:42, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
    I actually was not keenly cognizant of WP:NOTTHEM, Black Kite. I may have seen it before but I'm not sure. I vociferously and repeatedly argued a point at the Parler article. And I am conceding that. Administrators are not above doing the same. Why aren't problematic administrators challenged as to the propriety of their everyday pronouncements? A problem that I am pointing out is problematic administrators. That should not be overlooked. That is too serious a problem to be glossed over. Nor is this an excuse for my everyday pronouncements. I vociferously and repeatedly argued a point at the Parler article. Should I have done that? No. I was wrong. I was wrong. I apologize. I apologize. I'm being repetitive. I'm being repetitive. I'm being vociferous. I'm being vociferous. Mandruss had it right: "boilerplate", but not on my part. I am using English to express points that I genuinely think need expressing, but what I'm reading here and at other venues is "text (copy) that can be reused in new contexts or applications without significant changes to the original". Another way of putting that is I am speaking to you as a human being and you—not you specifically, Black Kite—are speaking to me like a heartless machine. It isn't too early for me to be requesting this un-ban. The timing is entirely appropriate. This is a request to be un-banned. I am articulating a commitment not to WP:BLUDGEON in the future. I am admitting wrongdoing for BLUDGEONING at Talk Parler. I am not admitting wrongdoing for a ton of other things that my detractors have implied are applicable to me. I'm tempted to repeat that but I'll resist the temptation. Bus stop (talk) 18:23, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
    Iridescent—I'm not "venting" when I say or imply that administrators ought to act like they are above the fray. Too many administrators use their enhanced influence to push politically motivated narratives. These concern the usual array of factors including religion and race and ethnicity. There is always an angle. Unless I am describing the curvature of a vase in an art article, I would be in violation of a "post-1932 American politics" topic ban. Yet on the other hand we commonly have administrators—not all, but some—putting their finger on the scale of myriad articles that ultimately impinge upon subjects like religion and race and ethnicity. Is it germane to my un-block request? Yes, I think it is. Bus stop (talk) 20:10, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
    The words Did you watch the hearings yesterday in which Ted Cruz grills Jack Dorsey? would definitely fall under the heading of "post-1932 American politics". You are right about that, Iridescent, but I wasn't addressing that. I won't reiterate what I was addressing. You go on to say "Despite what some may claim, Misplaced Pages welcomes people of all political opinions, but what we don't welcome is people of any persuasion who feel that their personal opinions are objective truth and they're justified in using any means necessary to force them everyone else, and I'm starting to get a strong whiff of that here." I can assure you I don't think my "personal opinions are objective truth". Bus stop (talk) 20:43, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
    As far as a posited "hope everyone else will get tired and let you have your way" that is definitely not the case in fact the opposite is the case—it is I who am "tired" of requesting that I be unblocked. Have it your way. I recognize consensus. Maybe tomorrow if this is still open I will weigh in again. But I have other things to do. You know—in real life? Bus stop (talk) 20:52, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
    Floquenbeam—you say "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." Would that word mean the same thing for an administrator as a non-administrator editor? You might say "yes" but I would say "no". Misplaced Pages does not need activist administrators. Such administrators are deleterious to the project. Why is GorillaWarfare spearheading the effort to get negative information into the ledes of articles like Parler and BitChute? In my opinion some administrators are a big problem for this project. We are talking about what would be violations of WP:NPOV even if done by non-administrator editors. Let me quote another editor, Adoring nanny, on the Talk page of the Parler article. "Now WP:NPOV is a Pillar of Misplaced Pages. It should therefore trump mere policies. To the extent that policies allow one to have localized discussions that lead to a highly-visible discussion of antisemitism in the article for Parler, but little-to-no discussion of antisemitism in the above articles (especially the Khamenei article), that shows that the policies are not respecting the pillar, and we have a problem. We need to address it" and in a later post also by Adoring nanny "Here is the point. If Misplaced Pages talks prominently about antisemitism in the lead of the Parler article but not in the articles I mention above, particularly the Khamenei article, we are looking at an elephant through a microscope and generally have our heads up our proverbial butts. We can have all the policies, sourcing rules, and so forth that we like, and follow them, but what readers notice is the absurdity of the final result.." The effort to put "antisemitism" in the lede of the Parler article is being spearheaded by GorillaWarfare. They are initiating the RfC called Should "antisemitism" be removed from the lead? I contend that activist administrators are a problem. I should not be penalized for resisting their efforts to violate WP:NPOV. Bus stop (talk) 09:31, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
    Floquenbeam—it is my strongly held opinion that administrators should be held to much higher standards than non-administrator editors. An administrator's role is to inject policy concerns into discussions that non-administrator editors might be having. An administrator's role is not to spearhead change—especially not change of a highly political nature. Bus stop (talk) 14:08, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
    JzG—your dialogue enters the realm of Gaslighting when you say "Different people can come to different conclusions based on the same facts". You are both an administrator and an activist. That, in my opinion, is very problematic. Bus stop (talk) 14:21, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

    Statement by Bishonen

    Statement by GorillaWarfare

    (Noting that I am the one who opened the ANI discussion that led to the topic ban.) The reviewing administrator(s) need only to look at Bus stop's contribution history since the ban was imposed at 20:23, 17 November 2020 to see why granting this appeal would be a terrible idea. See these edits to the discussion after the ban was placed for a prime example. Bus stop has done nothing since then but continue to discuss their ban, and they have continued the exact same behavior that led to it, repeating the same arguments they were bludgeoning the Talk:Parler page with while simultaneously claiming they have learned their lesson. Several editors, including myself, suggested they should be given some leeway and not be immediately sanctioned for the immediate violations of the tban on ANI and on their talk page, but they have continued to act as though the topic ban does not exist. I think they were somewhat lucky to fly under the radar of more strict administrators who would have sanctioned them for the immediate breaches of the sanction, so I'm amazed to see them bringing this up at AE. I can't tell if they want to be sanctioned and/or sitebanned, or if they genuinely can't see their own behavior for what it is. GorillaWarfare (talk) 02:52, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

    By the way, Bus stop, I've fixed the format of this appeal, where you'd accidentally used the "request sanction" template. Heads up that you will need to notify Bishonen if you haven't yet. GorillaWarfare (talk) 02:59, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
    I am baffled to see Bus stop trying to turn this appeal, in which JzG suggested AP topic ban appeals should be considered early (something that appears to be sympathetic towards Bus stop), into some kind of action against JzG. GorillaWarfare (talk) 18:04, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

    Statement by JzG

    We live in strange times, and strong feelings are spilling over into Misplaced Pages disputes. This TBan is well supported and makes obvious sense, but we should IMO be looking at early appeals after the dust has settled for any AP2 bans enacted recently and up to Jan 20. Guy (help! - typo?) 09:36, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

    Bus Stop neatly displays the source of the problem. Different people can come to different conclusions based on the same facts, the problem comes when you assert, loudly and repeatedly, that there can be no valid interpretation other than your own. In some cases that may be true (there is no world in which being a neo-Nazi is good, for example) but those cases are rare. Misplaced Pages is mainstream.
    If I thought Bus Stop was evil I would have argued for a siteban. I don't. I see him as a passionate individual whose stress levels have probably been escalated by the current timeline. I recognise this feeling: I have PTSD, and 2020 has been the worst year for my symptoms since initial diagnosis and treatment. I think a brief TBan is a good idea. I think an early appeal (after the dust has settled) is also a good idea. It makes sense for us to recognise that we are dealing with unprecedented events and people are reacting to those events in uncharacteristic ways.
    We still have to deal with a parallel Truth™-based information ecosystem with which Misplaced Pages has always struggled, starting with creationism, spreading into climate change denial, and now encompassing pretty much any area where there is a tension between progressive and conservative values. That's independent of the conduct of any individual editor. Guy (help! - typo?) 10:54, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

    Statement by Objective3000

    Bus Stop began with a commitment. Good start, albeit early. But within a half day, took the bait and started veering into WP:NOTTHEM territory. Not a good sign about the ability to maintain that commitment. O3000 (talk) 15:24, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

    The applicant is informed that this is not the place to talk about x, and then continues to talk about x. First rule of AE: Don’t manifest the problem at AE. O3000 (talk) 20:34, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

    Statement by SPECIFICO

    Consider the waste of editor and Admin resources just since GW's complaint. This drives good editors away, thwarts article improvement, and weakens the project. To resolve this, I recommend lifting the TBAN with the understanding that there will be a site ban on the first recurrence of the behavior appellant has now acknowledged. SPECIFICO talk 16:30, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

    Statement by Floq

    You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. --Floquenbeam (talk) 19:57, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

    I’m choosing not to act as an admin in politics-related issues, but I honestly think, after Bus Stop’s latest post, that they need to be blocked for a week or two for repeated violations of their topic ban, here in this very thread, after multiple warnings. “Venting” is one thing, but it’s been a week. I won’t be obnoxious and ping the uninvolved admins. But if we aren’t going to enforce a crystal clear sanction, then there’s no reason to even appeal. —Floquenbeam (talk) 13:13, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

    Statement by Cullen 328

    In my view, it is far too soon for Bus stop to try to appeal this topic ban. I would expect to see at least six months of unproblematic editing in other topic areas. As I see things, Bus stop has been tendentious in the Judaism topic area and in the contemporary art topic area as well. I am concerned that they will be unable to edit without drama for six months, but I sincerely hope that I am wrong. If this editor could just refrain from making the same argument over and over and over again, and digging in their heels, that would be a wonderful step in the right direction. Cullen Let's discuss it 07:58, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

    Statement by (involved editor 5)

    Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Bus stop

    • No way. One need only look at Bus stop's contribution history since the ban was imposed. Knowing that a violation would result in a full ban, Bus Stop went ahead and violated it more than once. Instead of lifting the topic ban, they should be fully banned. -- Valjean (talk) 03:37, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
    • From my perspective, BLUDGEON is only a part of the problem. There are serious issues of WP:IDHT, WP:REHASH, WP:SATISFY, and more, issues that have persisted for at least six years (that's only my experience and some say it has gone on much longer than that). Bus stop has a particular talent for pushing one to the end of their rope and then imploring them to calm down and be nice, making himself seem the aggrieved party to those unfamiliar with the history. That is not good faith behavior as I see it. I see no evidence that Bus stop truly understands these issues and is capable of addressing them. Even for BLUDGEON, he has offered the absolute minimum of boilerplate appeal, effectively: "I agree not to violate ". That doesn't adequately demonstrate understanding in my book. Considering that many at ANI preferred a community ban, I think it takes a considerable amount of chutzpah to show up here with an appeal of the lesser AP ban after a mere five days. ―Mandruss ☎ 03:47, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
      Bus stop, I did not come here to debate with you, I've done more of that than I care to think about during the past six years, all of it wasted. I made a statement that arbs may completely ignore if they feel I have not been sufficiently responsive to your comments. ―Mandruss ☎ 04:34, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
      I am simply saying I did not present myself as "the aggrieved party" - Nor did I say you did here. I was referring to that as part of your long-time pattern of talk page behavior. More IDHT. This is my last comment, no matter what further obtuseness you send in my direction. ―Mandruss ☎ 04:52, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
    • Criticizing the administrator that said we should IMO be looking at early appeals was certainly a strategic error - and perhaps a "triggered" one. Of all the ways to appeal a sanction, this appeal was one of the worse ones, considering the post-ban behavior. starship.paint (talk) 11:45, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
    • Q.E.D.. I've never seen anything like this... Nomoskedasticity (talk) 20:52, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
    • Good sanction - appeal should be no sooner than 6 months, not 6 days. — Ched (talk) 21:11, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
    • I agree that (1) the sanction was justified; (2) this is too early to appeal; (3) six months is an appropriate time for an appeal to be allowed; (4) JzG's suggestion should be kept in mind for the future when other sanctions levied during this period of time are appealed. Beyond My Ken (talk) 07:38, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
    • Bus Stop, I'm generally sympathetic with the article level concerns you have. However, at some point you have to work inside the Wiki process. Yes, that can be frustrating when it looks like you are being blocked by apparent group think. Even when that is how it feels there has to be a limit. It was clear from the previous discussion that even editors sympathetic to your editorial concerns took umbrage with your talk page interactions. The next step is self reflection and curbing that... enthusiasm to persuade at length. As someone who thinks the changes you want are often improvements I don't want to see you kicked out of AP2 for good but if you keep this up that is likely to happen. I strongly suggest withdrawing this request and as others have said, waiting at least 6 months and showing good talk page behavior on other topics (even perhaps controversial topics outside of AP2) then requesting a lift with clear statements statements regarding how you will avoid bludgeoning in the future. I think a declared, self-imposed limit to 1 reply to comments not directed at you/your comments for say 6-12 month after the AP2 block is lifted would make others feel a lot better. Springee (talk) 13:54, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

    Result of the appeal by Bus stop

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • Since there was a rough consensus at ANI for some sort of sanction, I do not think it is wise for this to be lifted, by us, so soon without community input. I would be willing to entertain an appeal here after 6 months of issue free editing. --Guerillero | Parlez Moi 04:13, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
    • Bus stop, the intent of WP:BANEX is to allow you to appeal the topic ban, and not to enable you to use this page as a forum to attack another editor in the topic area (e.g. Special:Diff/990196648) while the topic ban is in place. I recommend declining this request, and concur with Guerillero that your best course of action is to work in less controversial topic areas for a minimum of six months before submitting another appeal. — Newslinger talk 10:20, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
      Since this appeal is being used to attack other editors, I am closing it immediately. Any future topic ban violations will be met with blocks. — Newslinger talk 15:12, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
    • If ever I've seen a deserved topic ban, this is it. It's a textbook example of disruptive behaviour and is exactly what the sanctions policy is for. I also think that not listening to advice to wait six months, but instead going ahead with a premature appeal here, is yet another IDHT example. I would oppose any appeal before six months of constructive work in other areas. (And to show a bit of HT, Bus stop, I think withdrawing this appeal would be a positive step forward). Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 08:43, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
      Oh, and on Bus stop's latest promise to stop bludgeoning, see this. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 09:13, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
    • @Bus stop: Attacking another editor in your ban appeal is certainly an ... interesting ... choice, but I'm sure you've read WP:NOTTHEM at some point and will know that you need to concentrate on arguing why your ban should be lifted, rather than why someone else should be sanctioned. Because that's not going to happen here, and you're not helping yourself by doing so. I'm not sure why you aren't following the advice that's been given to you by multiple experienced editors. Black Kite (talk) 15:56, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
    • Based on Bus Stop's repeated and increasingly-long argumentation here, I can only take this promise to stop bludgeoning with a grain of salt. ~Swarm~ 18:49, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
    • Speaking as someone not in the US who to the best of my knowledge has never edited an article on American politics other than minor typo fixes, this is absolutely clear cut. The very first link provided by Bus stop, which they presumably feel in some way exonerates them, is a link to them breaking their topic ban in their initial response to being notified of it. (To be clear, I wouldn't recommend taking further action for that—we tend to allow leeway for the fact that sanctioned editors' initial response to the sanctions is often to vent before calming down—but to try to then use it as evidence in an appeal is fairly clear evidence of a disregard for process.) We don't expect every editor to agree with every consensus reached on Misplaced Pages but we do expect every editor to respect them; if another editor is also causing problems we have mechanisms for reporting that, but "I'm not the only one causing problems" is never going to fly as an appeal. Looking at the three links provided by Bus stop in their appeal (, , ) there's clear evidence that there was a strong consensus in support of an AP2 topic ban at minimum; unless evidence is somehow found that that decision was based on false evidence or that those supporting the topic ban were biased, I don't really see how we could supervote and overturn such a clear consensus. ‑ Iridescent 19:06, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
      If you're seriously claiming—as you appear to be in your reply to me—that Did you watch the hearings yesterday in which Ted Cruz grills Jack Dorsey? isn't "a discussion concerning post-1932 American politics", you're either wilfully misrepresenting the facts, deliberately bludgeoning a discussion in the hope everyone else will get tired and let you have your way, or have such a serious competence issue that you shouldn't be editing Misplaced Pages, and I very much doubt it's the last of the three. Your response confirms my initial feeling that the topic ban was extraordinarily lenient and you're extremely lucky not to have been banned altogether. Despite what some may claim, Misplaced Pages welcomes people of all political opinions, but what we don't welcome is people of any persuasion who feel that their personal opinions are objective truth and they're justified in using any means necessary to force them everyone else, and I'm starting to get a strong whiff of that here. ‑ Iridescent 20:30, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
    • The recent ANI thread included about a dozen experienced editors calling for, or endorsing, a topic ban (as well as a couple of calls for a site ban). The TB was imposed primarily for wp:bludgeoning, and there was a previous 3-month ban from AN for bludgeoning (followed by "I commit to no more bludgeoning). Without some evidence that Bus stop is able to control the behaviour, I don't see any chance of a successful appeal. I'd advise at least six months of bludgeon-free contributions before considering one. --RexxS (talk) 21:00, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
    • WP:AE gives admin a lot of wiggle room to deal with problems, however, I don't think we really CAN accept an appeal at this time. There was a sanction, ANI allowed the community to opine on it and there was a rough consensus that a sanction was needed, and that was just a few days ago. We could maybe review that process (which seems to be fine) but it is way too soon to be considering an appeal, and the community as a whole might would take it as a slap in the face if we were to grant an appeal with no real evidence that anything has changed since the sanction was imposed. That said, from a cursory look at the events, the sanction was earned. I would suggest closing with instructions that it can be appealed after a minimum of 6 months. Anything less is overriding the established community consensus, which is not what we are here for. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 01:54, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

    Arbitration enforcement action appeal by RickyBennison

    Closing w/o action. No merit to appeal. -- Amanda (aka DQ) 19:57, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved administrators" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.

    To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).

    Appealing user
    RickyBennison (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – RickyBennison (talk) 15:34, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
    Sanction being appealed
    Topic ban from pseudoscience, alternative medicine or fringe science for 12 months.

    Pseudoscience arbitration case discretionary sanctions, logged at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration_enforcement_log/2020#Pseudoscience.

    Administrator imposing the sanction
    Nick (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)
    Notification of that administrator
    The appealing editor is asked to notify the administrator who made the enforcement action of this appeal, and then to replace this text with a diff of that notification. The appeal may not be processed otherwise. If a block is appealed, the editor moving the appeal to this board should make the notification.

    Statement by RickyBennison

    Hi, I would like to appeal for this ban to be lifted on the following grounds. First and foremost it is not valid. The admin, Nick, administering the ban has not given prior warning as per the rules regarding administrator imposed sanctions for perceived disruptive editing. Nick first argued that an alert template delivered by another editor counted as their warning. I pointed out that it explicitly states it should not be interpreted as a warning, to which he seemed to concede but go on to state it was all that was needed. This is not the case. It in no way means standard administrative protocol does not need to be followed. For disruptive editing there is an escalating scale of administrator action ranging from warnings to increasingly long blocks. This scale is in place not just to disarm disruptive editors, but also to protect editors from abuse by admins. A twelve month ban without warning is one such form of abuse. In addition to the ban being invalidated by a lack of warning, it is additionally invalidated by Nick being involved in editing the content of the article in question, Grounding (earthing) culture. This can be viewed on the page log of the article, which has currently been nominated for AfD.

    Secondly, my edits in no way amount to disruptive editing and do not come close to doing so. I had attempted to incorporate the concerns of other editors in my edits, and thereby establish a consensus. When editors expressed concerns in regard to advertising, WP:SOAPBOX, and WP:MEDRS, I attempted to edit the article in such a way that would alleviate them. These things refute a charge of disruptive editing.

    Whilst I do not believe the ban is valid on procedural grounds, and its reasoning flawed, I will acknowledge that there are things I could improve on in my editing. Such as establishing dialogue on the Talk page more if I have reached an apparent impasse with another editor. Understanding why some people have MEDRS concerns and some do not is also something I hope to understand better, especially in regard to specific sources. These are two areas I hope to improve on in the future. Thank you for your time and for hearing this appeal. RickyBennison (talk) 15:34, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

    Statement by Nick

    I have tried to be sympathetic to RickyBennison and I always remain open to modification or reduction of sanctions, but it's impossible to see how this could be considered currently, given their troubled understanding of the Arbitration Enforcement process and the way in which they believe they've got yellow cards they can accrue before a red card is issued. I've explained the system and referred them to the Discretionary Sanctions page, but there still seems to be a worrisome gap in their understanding. I believe that's also the case when it comes to understanding guidance around MEDRS and what was required of their editing in the general pseudoscience area. Nick (talk) 19:34, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

    Statement by Praxidicae

    This isn't really my area of expertise (ArbCom) but I don't see any mishandling of the situation and I think if RickyBennison really wants to contribute, they should demonstrate this by participating in other areas that would not violate their topic-ban, which will also help demonstrate their understanding of sourcing requirements. Praxidicae (talk) 21:29, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

    Statement by (involved editor 1)

    Statement by (involved editor 2)

    Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by RickyBennison

    Result of the appeal by RickyBennison

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • It appears that the one-year topic ban was issued by User:Nick following this edit summary by RickyBennison: 'erased aggressive notice from editor with bad reputation'. RickyBennison had been given a timely alert of the Pseudoscience discretionary sanctions by User:Praxidicae. The above complaint that the ban was improperly given makes no sense to me. Praxidicae appears to have given the alert following RickyBennison's creation of a new article called Grounding (earthing) culture. Though the mere creation of a possibly-pseudoscientific article might not need any admin response, the edit summary 'erased aggressive notice from editor with bad reputation' certainly does cast an WP:ASPERSION on Praxidicae, the editor who issued the alert. Speedy deletion of the new article under A10 and G11 has been declined, but the page is now at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Grounding (earthing) culture. Normally you would expect that any benefits of grounding for human health would be supported by WP:MEDRS sources. EdJohnston (talk) 17:45, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
    • The appeal is based on a mistaken assumption that there are "rules" governing regarding administrator imposed sanctions, as if this were a game to be worked around. This is not a game, and the policies governing Arbcom Enforcement sanctions are at WP:ACDS #Placing sanctions and page restrictions. They require awareness on the part of the editor (which the DS alert ensures) and require the editor to adhere to the highest standards of behaviour. There is a considerable amount of wiki-lawyering in RickyBennison's response to the topic ban that simply do not address the issues that lead to the ban. Considering the issues raised about RickyBennison's edits to Grounding (earthing) culture and the talk page edit summary quoted, I don't see that a sanction was beyond the discretion of Nick, who was not involved in any content dispute with RickyBennison (which is the criterion necessary to meet the definition of WP:INVOLVED). I recommend to RickyBennison that they reconsider their position. It is quite possible that a clear indication of self-reflection concerning their behaviour, and a better grasp of WP:MEDRS might persuade AE admins that a lesser sanction may be appropriate. --RexxS (talk) 19:04, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
    • The attempt to wikilayer this is both incorrect and further hurting the users chances of appeal. Besides echoing my fellow admins above, I don't think one edit reverting Ricky qualifies as involved. Further there is no substantive evidence provided to consider the ban not needed. If there are things that the user says they can improve on, then this would be good for an appeal down the road to show the change. Right now I don't see anything actionable and this should be closed after the standard time. -- Amanda (aka DQ) 21:10, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
    • I would decline this request per RexxS's comments --Guerillero | Parlez Moi 21:39, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
    • The notion that administrators need to follow a formalized four step process of escalating warnings before taking decisive action to stop disruptive editing is false, and shows poor understanding of how Misplaced Pages works. The attack on Praxidicae, the editor who delivered the standard DS notification, is quite troubling. Instead of blocking the editor entirely, Nick gave a more limited topic ban, to give RickyBennison the opportunity to edit productively elsewhere. That is what this editor should be doing instead of wikilawyering and complaining. This request should be declined. Cullen Let's discuss it 19:45, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

    Anony20

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Anony20

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Heba Aisha (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 11:18, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Anony20 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    WP:ARBIPA :
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. Added glorifying image of a famous warrior on the top of caste article. Though I told in my edits that read User:Sitush/Common#Castelists. Individuals donot represent caste but reverted my edits.
    2. Showing biasness towards various social groups . They didn't liked Rajputs to be compared with Jat and Ahirs, a bid to assert supremacy of former. WP:POV WP:COI issue
    3. Personal attack on LukeEmily
    4. Personal attack here too.


    User talk:Anony20#Alert for India/Pakistan/Afghanistan related articles he is aware of the sanctions. See here.

    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    The accounts activity says that they want glorification of a particular caste only as all the edits shows seek to glorify the community. Even they removed sourced content earlier which they found objectionable to their caste.

    On their talk page they accused me of bombarding the page with notifications. So it will be helpful if someone notifies them on my behalf.Heba Aisha (talk) 11:20, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

    Bishonen is right I have not placed that sources on ur talk page and your activities shows that you are concerned with caste glorification only rather than productive contribution. Ex: Here You blanked sourced content as you didn't find it good.Heba Aisha (talk) 14:23, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
    RegentsPark regarding content on Rajput related articles we went for RFC for nearly one month.(Bishonen is witness). LukeEmily presented many sources of high quality and the editors who accused me or him of being partial were asked to bring similar quality sources but they failed. After RFc ended they are here again with another pretext. As for example in the above diff. Mr. Anony20 says: He need LE agreement on other articles too.Clear sign of creating disruption in future for WP:POV pushing attitude. They edit pages related to particular caste only and it is clear that WP:COI issue is there which may be problematic in future.Heba Aisha (talk) 19:17, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

    We have already gone long discussion on issue and many ppl like NitinMlk and Мастер Шторм asked them to bring sources to contradict what is written. See Talk:Rajput#RfC about deletion of allegedly derogatory words in Origin section. But they are here again and again with personal attacks and new kind of disruption. Heba Aisha (talk) 19:24, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

    I usually patrol previously edited pages and if someone have forgotten to give warning I do it. I have done this not only in the case of LE but in case of other editors also. Again.....it is clear to me that you are primarily concerned with WP:COI related to Rajputs as you have mentioned in your message that "I m trying to uplift the lower caste's status and degrade those of upper caste" (it means you are strivi g to maintain the superiority of Rajputs over other caste...in fact your remark on Jat, Ahir etc here makes it clear. Also you had problem with the verifiability of picture because Rajput were not looking Royal there....on the same note editors like you also challenged this image

    (Rajputs don't look royal here)...but none of you are challenging this image .... though both of them are of British period.Heba Aisha (talk) 10:30, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

    I have myself taken this image during my tour and you found it bogus because you wanna portray every rajput as royal(though it is not true...most of them are cultivators)....btw during this Bihar election many media channels have surveyed voting behaviour of Caste and I can post link of one such video in which they visited the same village from where this image belongs ....if admins are interested they can check "dressing pattern " looks of Bihari Rajputs.Since Wiki don't allow external link.....those who are interested can type this keyword on Youtube and watch how Rajput of bihar look. and you replaced that image with image of nobles who took part in 1857 revolt ...ironically there were few ruling families in Bihar and most Rajputs who constitute 4% of Bihari population were peasants. If admins have seen video.....I would recommend a topic ban as this is clearly WP:COI which may impact Neutrality (it is still impacting when you are challenging encyclopedic image) Heba Aisha (talk) 10:39, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
    Some of my pictures related to Bihar...I m not concerned with degrading or rising status of caste groups but I contribute towards whatever I like.:Heba Aisha (talk) 11:26, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

    Reply to this I have provided the method to check verifiability of image above and its not single revert.

    • Abusive language and accusations(Even after warning of Bishonen earlier one month before )
    • Reverting sourced content on Rajput (To undo a lot of productive edits: basically to get rid of word Shudra)Heba Aisha (talk) 11:37, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
    Replying to this in Bihar caste certificate are issued to only Other Backward Class and SC ST. And this shows ur lack of understanding in this area.Truly a case of WP:CIR.Heba Aisha (talk) 11:45, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

    Ok finally see this news report. I urge @RegentsPark: and @Bishonen: to check it ..it have many images of Bihari Rajputs. And Mr. Anony20 wants only image of princes and nobles.Clearly a glorification attempt.Heba Aisha (talk) 11:55, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

    In above diff. You have again accused me of sockpuppetry which is after Bishonen warned u months before.I m not showing WP:OWN behavior. The news article I shared has the current image of Rajput ppl and since Kingship ended long ago....we should update the article with new image. since it is licenced image my image is usable here. See WP:NOTDEMOCRACY about ur view supported by majority of ppl even they are wrong.The article is about common Rajputs and not Landlords which you are trying to portray through image.Also see User:Sitush/Common#Castelists we should refrain from keeping notable people on top of caste article. The image you put are of freedom fighters mainly zamindars who participated in 1857 revolt against british not the commoners. Heba Aisha (talk) 13:19, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
    The image Anony20 has used is also used on this article it is the image of Kunwar Singh and his attendants who were Rajput landlords and chieftain.Plz see the article admins. Bihari Rajput is an article about a social group not handful of landlord from same caste.PS: He has opened separate talk on WP:AN.Heba Aisha (talk) 14:21, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

    No way plz read carefully... Revolt of 1857 in Bihar specially Arrah was primarily a Landlord's revolt.Plz stop putting specific personalities on top of caste article.Heba Aisha (talk) 14:38, 29 November 2020 (UTCs

    Admins plz take note it is what we call User:Sitush/Common#RoyalPuffery since 1971 privileges have ended and every caste has poor and rich now. The news article I shared shows how Rajput ppl look nowadays.I m still opposed to putting pic of some notable personalities (here Kunwar Singh) and his attendants on top of caste page. If this is so Teli ppl will put Narendra Modi on the top of their respective caste article and so do other castes. Plz take required action as WP:Wikihounding refers to engaging an editor on multiple fronts which he is doing by opening another discuss on WP:ANHeba Aisha (talk) 15:11, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
    No Plz see the caption and even title of image mention Koor Singh with his attendants check on Kunwar Singh article.You have uploaded a poor version of same image. Heba Aisha (talk) 21:28, 29 November 2020 (UTC)


    Discussion concerning Anony20

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Anony20

    I had raised my concern with the image uploaded by Heba Aisha in the page of Bihari Rajput. The complainant replied to me there(Check talk page of Bihari Rajput) and simultaneously provided unnecessary sources on my user talk page. To be noted, I have never asked the complainant of those sources but only raised the concern with the image in Bihari Rajput page. I asked Heba Aisha about the need to abruptly flood those sources to my user talk page, to which she marked this as ds/aware and then WP:AE

    Hi Bishonen, first of all, let me clarify that I haven't complained about HA's message rather I had asked her about the reason to flood my talk page, I guess I was wrong in thinking so, as you have pointed out that those were footnotes. Secondly, my purpose is neither to demean any caste nor to glorify any as pointed out by HA in his/her allegation against me. I'll prove it in the next paragraph but let me first highlight that my edits which HA has highlighted are of August and I haven't edited any of those pages from the past 3 months. Just after pointing out the image uploaded by HA on the talk page of Bihari Rajput, it was reverted by LE without any reply to my concern on the talk page of Bihari Rajput and within hours I received HA's message that I have been reported. I ask you to check the talk page of Bihari Rajput to get a clear insight of my concern and how it was overlooked. I suppose wikipedia is a platform to discuss and contribute and it should remain so.

    Now coming to HA's allegations, what I have seen HA and LE doing, is to edit each page related to Indian castes with recent and often disputed sources, so that all the castes can be put at the same level. One can check my edits if I ever tried to demean any caste through my edits on their page. There are multiple sources to counter the edits that were made by HA or LE repeatedly on pages of Rajputs in August, although I left that argument with them as I am not always active on wiki. If HA or LE are concerned to know why I had objected their edits, then I can share some of the sources, though I am in no mood to do so now, still HA can check:

    1) Shail Mayaram; Against History, Against State; p. 202: Ancient North India witnessed rule by various Kshatriya dynasties and Kshatriya republics of Haryanka, Surasena Yadav 2, Sakya, Moriya, Yousheya & Arjunayana clans.

    2) Jai Narayan Asopa (1990); A socio-political and economic study, northern India; Prateeksha Publications. 89 : the word “Rajput” is an ethnicity of various lineage-kinship networks of various Kshatriya clans ( kuls ) and their subclans ( khaaps ). From Kumarpala Prabandh of 1435 AD, there has been a tendency to enumerate these clans to 36

    3) Smith, Vincent A. (October 1907). Coin of Vyagrahamukha of the Chapa (Gurjara) Dynasty of Bhinmal”; 923–928: For instance, the first political appearance of Chavda Rajputs was in the form of Vyaghramukha Chavda, a Bhinmal ruler, under whose reign the mathematician-astronomer Brahmagupta wrote his famous treatise in 628 AD

    4) Nandini Kapur Sinha; State Formation in Rajasthan; Mewar, p. 37: Sri Pravarasena (530-590 CE), the Hunnic ruler was separated by the early Guhilot Rajput inscriptions ( Samoli Inscription 646 CE) barely by a few decades and yet the latter showed neither political affiliation nor cultural similarities. Rather they showed political affiliation to the Moriya Rajputs of Chittaurgarh

    5) Babur Nama; Journal of Emperor Babur; p. 289: Due to his military reputation, Sanga built a Confederacy of Rajput states of Eastern Rajasthan, Chambal and Doab that first defeated a Mughal force at Bayana but was routed at Khanwa.

    I was infuriated by the repeated reverts and edits which were made by them in August but still I left it to them as I am not much active on wiki. Although, I still don't know the reason behind raising this concern after 3 months when I haven't edited those pages in between and raising it after I pointed out HA on talk page of Bihari Rajput. Thanks

    Heba Aisha, LukeEmily you guys still haven't answered, why the edits of Rajput article is highlighted now if I haven't edited it from past many months, and highlighted it only when I challenged the image uploaded by HA "Rajput men watching Mallah" on Bihari Rajput as misleading. Bishonen, RegentsPark I ask you to have a look at the talk page of Bihari Rajput.

    LE if you are here for discussion about the edits on Rajput page, then I must tell you that Shail Mayaram quotes that "some Kshatriya lost their status in time while Sudra rose to power to rule". It doesn't say anything about the origin of Rajput or Kshatriya, it rather speaks about status. Even the Nand dynasty was of a Sudra (or barber to be specific) but he isn't counted as a Kshatriya or Rajput (Life Unshackled By Mallikarjun B. Mulimani). And none of your sources predates Kumarpal Prabandh which clearly states 36 royal races which are still counted in pure Rajput clans. Regarding other castes like Bhil, Gond, Ahir, Gujjar, Jat there are numerous mentions of them attempting to fake their genealogy to connect themselves as descendants of Rajput(Like Mah Ranjit Singh Jat to Bhati Rajput, Mah Surajmal Jat to Jadaun rajput of Karauli, Ahir rewari principality to Jadaun of Tirjala) or by Sanskritization/ Arya Samaj uplifted their status and adopted the lifestyle and titles of Rajput(1910 Yadav Mahasabha, instructed Ghosi/Pal/Gadariya/Ahir/Gwala/Gop to adopt Yadav 'a Kshatriya title'). As I have said, I am in no mood now to have a discussion about Rajput article, but still LE if you're interested then we can have it on the talk page of Rajput.

    Regarding my accusation of taking LE and HA as a group, I found a pattern in the time of their joining of wiki and making repeated and often humongous amount of edits on the pre existing pages of Indian castes. (Take a look of edits in August ) Whenever either of them was challenged or his edits were reverted, then the other one would either revert it or would drop a message in user talk page, the same thing happened in the case of Bihari Rajput. When HA's uploaded image was objected, LE came in picture abruptly, it left me to think as if they are working as a group with a certain agenda to generalize all the castes or to uplift the earlier marginalized one.

    If my purpose would have been to glorify a caste or race then I must have been active in making edits to the pages of a caste. But, I rarely make any edits like I did one after 3 months on the page of Bihari Rajput

    Heba Aisha don't try to divert from your earlier arguments here. Instead of answering my question, you're beating around the bush with such false allegations on me Secondly, in my above remarks I have pointed out Sanskritization and the wrong quote of LE regarding Shail Mayaram. Again you've come in defence of LE like earlier instances and trying to portray me as a caste supremacist which I am not. I think you should see the recent remark of KashKarti on Bihari Rajput, he agrees with my point and maybe there are many more who feels same like KK. If you had a problem with my edit on Bihari Rajput, you could've pointed out me on its talk page. I guess there is no monopoly of a single user on wikipedia and it works on consensus and discussion. So it's nothing like I can't challenge your "Rajput men watching Mallah" image on Bihari Rajput if I didn't find it verifiable. For just reverting an unsourced image with a sourced image doesn't goes for topic ban under WP:COI

    The pic uploaded by me on Bihari Rajput is of rajput rebels from Bihar and I guess not all of them are noble which you've misunderstood. Or tell me what you understand by the term "nobles". Have you checked the caste certificates of that group of men, that you're adamant that they are all rajputs? If you have their caste certificates then may be you can upload them on drive and cite it's link on wikimedia. But still I feel that image is not a representation of community.

    Heba Aisha your recent accusation are truly a personal attack on me. I simply asked you how did you verified those men as rajputs and you're attacking my sensibility and knowledge under WP:NPA. You are making false allegation against me by quoting Bishonen August remark and quoting them as one month old, I have already quoted it in my above(1st para). I can't take your beating around the bush just because I challenged your image on Bihari Rajput. You are not ready to accept my argument and repeatedly making fresh allegations against me. Another user has disagreement with the image which you had uploaded in that article and I would like to hear from KashKarti, why that image and your argument to defend it were not satisfactory. I think you would listen to KK if not me.

    When did I asked you to upload images of prince and princes? RegentsPark, Bishonen I would like if you interrupt Heba Aisha as HA is making false allegations against me and trying to demean me with hoaxes. Pls have a look at the comments of HA, LE and mine to know how newly fabricated accusations are made against me. Also, HA what are you trying to prove by sharing articles from news websites, are they in anyway relevant with the allegations you're making here?

    Heba Aisha is showing authority over Bihari Rajput WP:STEWARDSHIP WP:OWNERSHIP , not ready to listen to my arguments WP:POVRAILROAD, making newly fabricated/misleading false allegations against me WP:NPA and misinterpreting my statements WP:Civility, HA is singling out me when another user KK has a similar view on Bihari Rajput WP:Wikihounding. This is clearly WikiBullying WP:BULLY @RegentsPark: Just because I challenged her image on Bihari Rajput, HA is misquoting my statements, portraying me a caste supremacist, highlighting my 3 months old comment which I haven't used after the warning of Bishonen, making false allegation against me that I actively edit Rajput page which I haven't edited from past many months. And all these allegations and accusations just because I pointed HA in talk page of Bihari Rajput is HA acting as an owner of that page.

    That image is not of zamindars but rajput rebels. HA is misquoting the title. HA, those attendants are not zamindars themselves, instead Babu Kunwar Singh(man in middle is the only zamindar in that image) Note: I have appealed to Admin as I am being constantly misquoted and misinterpreted by HA.

    I am not putting an individual's image. Neither it's a pic of zamindars in their traditional attire, so it doesn't reflect royal status. It is a group of rajput rebels from 1857.

    In my above statement, I have clarified it's not an individual's image, also the caption of image doesn't mention any notable person. Going by your argument HA, I would like to state that "group of unverified people with semi clothed man and children watching Mallah" doesn't reflect Bihari rajput in any sense.

    Statement by (LukeEmily)

    I fixed the talk page section of Anony20 that I had posted earlier so the references stay in that section only. Was reading this conversation (as I was looking at Anony20's edits today after his post on my talk page) but was not sure if I should comment. However, since , Anony20 is posting misleading information, and because Bishonen gave me permission to discuss, I will do so. First of all, his allegation is absurd. Heba and I do not work together nor do we edit the same topics. In fact, I have no interest in Indian Politics (especially north Indian) and I do not have any know-how of most of the topics from Bihar that she edits. We did agree on some of the Rajput edits as we both felt that the page was one sided and since then Anony20 has been calling us twins, dumbos and what not. I personally am not offended by name calling but I do not like vandalism as it results in considerable waste of time. For example here, Anony20 reverted many academic sources that were coincidentally all unpleasant . Specifically his revert got rid of the words "Shudra" , "illiterate" "peasant" and "Rajputization" - everything that is unpleasant. etc. I just checked and Anony20 reverted the version to a version that was several days old by going back about 50 edits! The Rajput caste page was full of glorification when I read it. Evidence does indicate that Anony20 objects to any unpleasant edit on the Rajput page. I honestly feel that he and some others are involved in caste promotion. Anony20, I did not remove any existing sources or text, did I? Here is the response to the sources that Anony cited above.

    None of the sources that Anony20 listed directly contradict the sources that were added to origin and even if they did it does not justify the blanking of sources unless you are involved in WP:PUFFERY. Anony20, the section specifically talks about origin of the community and not what some people might have called them later and none of the sources you just stated discuss the origin and even if they did, it does not mean you can blank out 10-12 high quality academic sources. You can simply add more opinions as Sitush has said. In fact if you do a search for Kshatriya and Maratha you will get a lot of sources too. But the origin is a different issue. Even if you add every source you mentioned above to the Rajput page, it will not contradict what is in the origin section as every view has been mentioned. Neither Heba nor I removed any of the existing sources. But you came in and reverted a lot of hard work in a few seconds by blanking out the new additions and reverting the page to an old version. Ironically, Marayam whom you quoted above says the following about Rajput origin.


    1.Mayaram, Shail (2010). "The Sudra Right to Rule". In Ishita Banerjee-Dube (ed.). Caste in History. Oxford University Press. p. 110. ISBN 978-0-19-806678-1. In their recent work on female infanticide, Bhatnagar, Dube and Bube(2005) distinguish between Rajputization and Sanksritization. Using M.N.Srinivas' and Milton Singer's approach to social mobility as idioms they identify Rajputization as one of the most dynamic modes of upward mobility. As an idiom of political power it 'signifies a highly mobile social process of claiming military-political power and the right to cultivate land as well as the right to rule. Rajputization is unparalleled in traditional Indian society for its inventiveness in ideologies of legitimation and self-invention. This was a claim that was used by persons of all castes all over north India ranging from peasants and lower-caste Sudras to warriors and tribal chiefs and even the local raja who had recently converted to Islam. 2.Ishita Banerjee-Dube (2010). Caste in History. Oxford University Press. p. xxiii. ISBN 978-0-19-806678-1. Rajputization discussed processes through which 'equalitarian, primitive, clan based tribal organization' adjusted itself to the centralized hierarchic, territorial oriented political developments in the course of state formation. This led a 'narrow lineage of single families' to disassociate itself from the main body of their tribe and claim Rajput origin. They not only adopted symbols and practices supposedly representative of the true Kshatriya, but also constructed genealogies that linked them to the primordial and legendary solar and lunar dynasties of kings. Further, it was pointed out that the caste of genealogists and mythographers variously known as Carans, Bhats, Vahivanca Barots, etc., prevalent in Gujarat, Rajasthan and other parts of north India actively provided their patron rulers with genealogies that linked local clans of these chiefs with regional clans and with the Kshatriyas of the Puranas and Mahabharata. Once a ruling group succeeded in establishing its claim to Rajput status, there followed a 'secondary Rajputization' when the tribes tried to 're-associate' with their formal tribal chiefs who had also transformed themselves into Hindu rajas and Rajput Kshatriyas.

    I already gave you about 10 more academic sources here:User_talk:Anony20#No_personal_attacks. Here are 10 *more* FYI (in fact, I have not come across any modern high quality academic source that opposes these views) and I am not even adding all the sources like Koyal, Sinha etc.:

    Peasant/Pastoral origin:

    3.Eugenia Vanina 2012, p. 140:Regarding the initial stages of this history and the origin of the Rajput feudal elite, modern research shows that its claims to direct blood links with epic heroes and ancient kshatriyas in general has no historic substantiation. No adequate number of the successors of these epically acclaimed warriors could have been available by the period of seventh-eights centuries AD when the first references to the Rajput clans and their chieftains were made. Almost all Rajput clans originated from the semi-nomadic pastoralists of the Indian north and north-west.

    4.Daniel Gold (1 January 1995). David N. Lorenzen (ed.). Bhakti Religion in North India: Community Identity and Political Action. State University of New York Press. p. 122. ISBN 978-0-7914-2025-6. Paid employment in military service as Dirk H. A. Kolff has recently demonstrated, was an important means of livelihood for the peasants of certain areas of late medieval north India... In earlier centuries, says Kolff, "Rajput" was a more ascriptive term, referring to all kinds of Hindus who lived the life of the adventuring warrior, of whom most were of peasant origins.

    5.Doris Marion Kling (1993). The Emergence of Jaipur State: Rajput Response to Mughal Rule, 1562–1743. University of Pennsylvania. p. 30. Rajput: Pastoral, mobile warrior groups who achieved landed status in the medieval period claimed to be Kshatriyas and called themselves Rajputs

    6.André Wink (1991). Al-Hind the Making of the Indo-Islamic World: The Slave Kings and the Islamic Conquest : 11Th-13th Centuries. BRILL. p. 171. ISBN 90-04-10236-1. ...and it is very probable that the other fire-born Rajput clans like the Caulukyas, Paramaras, Cahamanas, as well as the Tomaras and others who in the eighth and ninth centuries were subordinate to the Gurjara-Pratiharas, were of similar pastoral origin, that is, that they originally belonged to the mobile, nomadic groups...

    Illiterate and non-Kshatriya origin:

    7.Norman Ziegler 1976, p. 141:...individuals or groups with which the word was associated were generally considered to owe their origin to miscegenation or varna-samkara ("the mixing of castes") and were thus inferior in rank to Ksatriyas. What I perceive from the above data is a rather widespread change in the subjective perception and the attribution of rank to groups and individuals who emerged in Rajasthan and North India as local chiefs and rulers in the period after the muslim invasions(extending roughly from the thirteenth to the fifteenth centuries). These groups were no longer considered kshatriyas and though they filled roles previously held by kshatriyas and were attributed similar functions of sustaining society and upholding the moral order, they were either groups whose original integrity were seen to have been altered or who had emerged from the lower ranks of the caste system. This change is supported by material from the Rajput chronicles themselves.

    8.Norman Ziegler 1976, p. 150: Rajputs were, with some exceptions, almost totally illiterate as a caste group

    9.Reinhard Bendix (1998). Max Weber: An Intellectual Portrait. Psychology Press. pp. 180–. ISBN 978-0-415-17453-4. Eventually the position of the old Kshatriya nobility was undermined not only by the Brahmin priests but also by the rise of a warrior caste in northwest India. Most of the Rajputs were illiterate mercenaries in the service of a King.

    10.Sara R. Farris (9 September 2013). Max Weber’s Theory of Personality: Individuation, Politics and Orientalism in the Sociology of Religion. BRILL. pp. 140–. ISBN 978-90-04-25409-1. Weber however explained this downgrading of their status by the fact that they represented a threat to the cultural and intellectual monopoly of the Brahmans, as they were also extremely cultured and educated in the art of administration. In about the eight century the Rajput thus began to perform the functions that had formerly belonged to the Kshatriya, assuming their social and economic position and substituting them as the new warrior class. Ancient illiterate mercenaries, the Rajput did not represent a threat to the Brahmininc monopoly and were more inclined to accept the Brahmans' superiority, thus contributing to the so called Hindu restoration.

    Note: There are many more. This is in addition to the other 10 sources I had provided on your page - so 20 sources plus at least 5-6 more that are not here. All sources are very high quality(Cambridge, Oxford, SUNY etc.) The amount of high quality material available discussing Rajputization is really overwhelming. It has also been linked to Female Infanticide (please see Rajput#Female_infanticide) and hence is an important topic. There is no intent to disparage or insult or offend any community but we have the duty as editors to use WP:RS on Misplaced Pages and not revert it if the source is acceptable.LukeEmily (talk) 19:20, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

    Result concerning Anony20

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • Heba Aisha, I'm sorry to get technical here, but WP:GS/CASTE is not an arbcom discretionary sanction, it's a community sanction (and one that I don't think the user has been warned about). Requests per that sanction need to go to WP:AN, not here. On the other hand, it might be simpler for you to leave it here and merely change WP:GS/CASTE to WP:ARBIPA, which means the arbcom discretionary sanctions for India, Pakistan and Afghanistan. That would work perfectly well. You actually involve both of the types of sanctions in your report above, referring to the alert for ARBIPA, so leaving it here and changing WP:GS/CASTE is probably your best bet. Bishonen | tålk 12:24, 28 November 2020 (UTC).
    • Anony20, is what you have posted above the extent of your defence? It seems extremely thin. You are mistaken in thinking HA added those sources at the bottom of your page. (Even if they had done so, I don't see that there is much in that for you to complain of. What about the other points raised here?) Those sources are footnotes to an earlier post by LukeEmily on your page, here, from September, and they are a list of reliable sources that you had removed from the article. They are highly relevant to LE's post. I'll make a more general comment on this case later. Bishonen | tålk 13:43, 28 November 2020 (UTC).
    • I'd be very interested to hear also from LukeEmily, who has been involved with Anony's editing and arguments — indeed, Anony has several times treated LE and HA as a "team", or implied that they're one person, an aspersion that seems highly unlikely to me. Bishonen | tålk 16:13, 28 November 2020 (UTC).
    • I'm somewhat on the fence here. In August 2020, Anony20 behaved frankly atrociously. This is bad in several ways: attacks on Heba Aisha, attacks on Sitush, unacceptable caste commentary. Compare also my warning (aggressively received) to Anony20 here. They were then far from new, having started editing in 2018, but as of today they have only made 113 edits altogether. So in that sense could be considered a newbie still — a newbie editing one of our most fraught topics, castes and social groups. Their August edit here to Rajput is atrocious in another way: removing all content that could be seen as negative — as LukeEmily points out, removing terms such as "Shudra" , "illiterate" "peasant" and "Rajputization" — plus a whole raft of reliable sources supporting those terms. That was pure caste promotion. A very bad edit. But what I would like to know is this: Anony20 took a break from 1 September to 26 November. Is there anything really bad from the last few days? There is certainly this recent nonsense about 'twin users'. But literally all they have done at any article in November is add images to Bihari Rajput. I think Heba's complaint about these images is a bit overblown, and altogether that Heba's timing in bringing this complaint is not the best. The point where a user has taken a three-month break and has only returned a few days earlier is not a good time to take them to WP:AE. Unless somebody can point to egregious talkpage edits in November, I would close this with a warning to Anony20: Anony, you shouldn't talk down to people such as LukeEmily, who obviously understands sourcing in the area far better than you do, but listen to him and other competent users, and to educate yourself about Misplaced Pages's policies and guidelines. If there is obvious caste promotion from you going forward, admins are now watching, and you're likely to be topic banned from all articles and discussions about castes and social groups. P.S. Oh... I just saw that Anony20 has taken Heba to ANI over the same stuff that is being discussed here. What a terrible idea. I suppose I'll write it down to inexperience. Sigh. Bishonen | tålk 16:01, 29 November 2020 (UTC).
    • The last two diffs in OPs complaint are concerning. Accusations of sock or meat puppeting, "dumbo", "twin sister", are all personal attacks. I'm not sure whether the caste related diffs are egregious content related stuff but these personal attacks are not a good sign. At a minimum, Anony20 needs to be made aware that they can be topic banned from specific topic areas (caste related India articles, for example) unless they shape up. If there is evidence of disruptive content editing (I don't see anything that stands out but haven't looked carefully), I'd be willing to support a topic ban.--RegentsPark (comment) 16:57, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

    GizzyCatBella

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning GizzyCatBella

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Astral Leap (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 11:39, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    GizzyCatBella (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    TBAN and other questionable edits


    Full disclosure: I came about to scrutinizing GizzyCatBella's edits after she filed a bogus sock-puppet case against me. User:Nsk92 suggested that GizzyCatBella deserves further scrutiny in light of her multiple AE blocks, an AE topic ban and her sneak revert of a WP:NONAZI blocked user's edits, placing Aryanization in Affirmative action.

    Generally questionable edits:

    1. : sneak reverting (hidden at bottom of copy edit) of Zezen's addition of Aryanization to Affirmative action. Zezen was WP:NONAZI blocked by User:Bishonen in part due to this edit.
    2. : Derailing discussion to attack User:Trasz she is in dispute on other pages.
    3. : Changing "antisemitic (branded "anti-Zionist")" to "anti-Zionist". Not only is this unsupported by the sources, GizzyCatBella doctored quotations. In page 121 of book she placed it says "and in the aftermath of the "anti- Zionist" campaign of 1968", with scare quotes, yet GizzyCatBella doctored this to: "and in the aftermath of the anti-Zionist campaign or 1968" without scare quotes. This omission completely changes the nature of the quotation.


    Edits that violate WWII in Poland TBAN (or skirt awfully close)

    1. : Includes significant WWII in Poland content. Under "Second World War" section: "A labour subcamp of the Stalag II-D prisoner-of-war camp was also operated in the town by Germany.", under "Post-war Poland": "After World War II the city became again part of Poland, under territorial changes demanded by the Soviet Union at the Potsdam Conference, and was handed over to Polish administration on 1 June 1945..."
    2. : Discussing inclusion criteria for list whose first entry is The Holocaust, second is Nazi genocide of ethnic Poles, and also has Polish Operation of the NKVD.
    3. : Article is about Polish myth on region lost in WWII.
    4. : The article is about the WWII educational policy of Poland's ruling party.
    5. : One of the main topics of the WWII Potsdam Conference was the allocation of Polish territory.
    6. : Removing German place name of formerly German village allocated to Poland in 1945.

    Edits that violate violence immediately prior/after to WWII in Poland TBAN (The TBAN includes: any acts of violence by, in or against Poland, or by or against Poles or Polish Jews, during or immediately prior to or after World War II)

    1. : Vote in RFC whose content difference includes anti-Jewish violence immediately after WWII: "In 2008, Wolniewicz addressed a packed crowd at the Basilica of the Sacred Heart of Jesus in Krakow and shouted "The Jews are attacking us! We need to defend ourselves", in an event protesting against the Fear: Anti-Semitism in Poland after Auschwitz book and alongside Jerzy Robert Nowak." Fear: Anti-Semitism in Poland after Auschwitz is about anti-Jewish violence immediately after the end of WWII.
    2. : This facility was known for torture and incarceration of without trial of Polish Jews and other minorities between 1934 and until the Polish collapse in September 1939 (), included in anti-Jewish/Polish violence immediately prior to WWII.
    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
    1. April 2018 AE block
    2. June 2018 AE TBAN
    3. May 2019 AE block
    4. June 2020 AE block
    If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)
    AE blocks and TBANs above.
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    Discussion concerning GizzyCatBella

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by GizzyCatBella

    This report is of tit-for-tat type and resembles all other attempts of getting me blocked where users were issued an interaction ban due to stretched pieces of evidence such as the ones below. Please allow me some extra time to address it due to my real-life issues at the moment. I'll ping administrators @Guerillero:, @El C:, @RexxS: involved in prior case since they are the most familiar with my situation and a long-overdue topic ban lift. Hope they have time to look at it also. Thanks - GizzyCatBella🍁 15:21, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

    Statement by Nsk92

    I dislike the tit-for-tat nature of the events that led us here, but in terms of substance this report has merit. IMO, the diffs provided by the OP either skirt extremely close to violating GizzyCatBella's TBAN or actually do violate it. For instance, I believe that the edits on Potsdam Conference and on Talk:Bereza Kartuska Prison violate the TBAN. The future of Poland was a major topic at the Potsdam Conference, Potsdam Conference#Poland, and the decisions made at Potsdam finalized the post-WWII arrangements for Poland. The Bereza Kartuska Prison describes, incliding in the lede, that suspected German sympathizers were incarcerated there immediately prior to the start of WWII and they were freed when WWII started and Germany invaded Poland. GizzyCatBella already has 3 AE blocks and they should have known by now to stay well clear of anything that can be interpreted as breaching their topic ban or coming close. (See User talk:GizzyCatBella#Arbitration enforcement warning for extra discussion on the topic where GizzyCatBella promises to be more cafeul.) Instead they keep pushing the envelope closer and closer to the edge, and sometimes over it. Clearly, some additional sanction is needed, either a wider topic ban under the same Eastern Europe arbcom case, or a longer block. Nsk92 (talk) 14:53, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning GizzyCatBella

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

    Yurivict

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Yurivict

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Hemiauchenia (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 15:19, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Yurivict (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/American politics 2 :
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 02:51, 19 November 2020 Attempts to give credence to the conspiracy theory of voter fraud by Dominion voting systems using affidavits, violating WP:NOT and WP:OR
    2. 04:26, 19 November 2020 Repeat addition of the same content as above.
    3. 23:44, 22 November 2020 States that "Mass media outlets like CNN/CBS/MSNBC/New York Times/etc don't seem concerned about objective news reporting, and instead have long turned into the instruments of propaganda." and continues to claim evidence of voter fraud.
    4. 21:19, 26 November 2020 Same as above
    5. 17:41, 29 November 2020 "the voting data posted in Pennsylvania after Nov 9PM is forged"
    Awareness Critera: Met, in 2017, and one on the 20th of November
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    Yurivict, while a long standing editor, attempted to give credence to the conspiracy theory of voter fraud by Dominon voting systems in the Sidney Powell article, and has continued this disruption at Misplaced Pages talk:Reliable sources/Perennial sources#Why the mainstream media are considered RS when they continuously and demonstrably lie?, accusing reputable media outlets of being "liars", showing WP:CIR issues. Yurivict previously opened a thread entitled Since it is obvious that it has been no Russian interference, this article should be either renamed or deleted on the Russian interference in the 2016 United States elections talk page in February 2018, showing that they have consistent pattern of this behaviour. I request an AP2 topic ban.

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    Done

    Discussion concerning Yurivict

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Yurivict

    The claims of incivility are false. On every occasion I provided extensive logical reasoning for what I said, and repeatedly asked Valjean to explain his reasoning, and he consistently failed to answer, no matter how much I tried. I expressed the only reasonable conclusion possible in this situation: that he lacks the ability for logical reasoning and discerning truth from falsehood. There is no incivility there, only logical conclusions. Valjean's user page indicates that he is a far-left activist, expresses his hatred towards certain current politicians, and is here on Misplaced Pages to promote his political causes. In his other edits he also expressed his conviction that he "is on the right side of history". This apparently justifies the means for him.

    RS are voted on by Misplaced Pages editors. I pointed out the obvious problem with inveracity of statements in sources being incompatible with sources being considered RS. Despite my numerous attempts to provide proof that the information asserted by mass media is false, others consistently plainly rejected all arguments, showing their extreme level of bias. I literally couldn't get even one bit of acceptable argumentation as to why the mass media statements in question should be considered correct. One of the most egregious examples is the user stating "Yes, 98% of the batch could just be votes for Biden." This answer is just one example of extreme, acute bias that far transcends the boundaries of reasonableness. Yurivict (talk) 20:22, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

    ("Reply to Liz"): I never said this. Please do not attribute any broad statements to me that I never said. Yurivict (talk) 22:00, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
    ("Reply to Bishonen"): This is **not pushing**. The page in question is a voting page, where editors express their opinion about sources in order to establish if they are RS. You appear to think that only certain opinions are welcomed, and not others. This undermines the very process of voting. Yurivict (talk) 22:04, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
    ("Reply to Cullen328"): I never said that I reject any fundamental process. I only questioned specific statements from the media as to their veracity and compatibility with being RS. Yurivict (talk) 22:04, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
    ("Reply to Valjean"): Valjean feels personally attacked and hurt, despite none of the above was meant. His remark about "it is known that the sky is blue" only shows how pre-opinionated he is. He votes with the expectation of a particular outcome, not with open mind and intention to establish what the average opinion is. He has the mentality of a classical far-left activist. Yurivict (talk) 23:25, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

    Statement by Valjean

    The major issue here is Yurivict's open opposition to RS and a lack of basic competence to evaluate the reliability of sources:

    the ability to read sources and assess their reliability. Editors should familiarize themselves with Misplaced Pages's guidance on identifying reliable sources and be able to decide when sources are, and are not, suitable for citing in articles.

    Yurivict constantly uses unreliable sources in their arguments.

    They also engage in:

    I believe an AP2 topic ban is necessary, as well as a topic ban from all controversial subjects, as their basic incompetence regarding sourcing will continue to be a problem. -- Valjean (talk) 19:55, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

    • Below, Yurivict states: "You appear to think that only certain opinions are welcomed, and not others. This undermines the very process of voting."
    Let's use an example. If we have a vote about the color of the sky, and knowing that all RS state that the "sky is blue", ONE editor then votes that the "sky is not blue", based on their use of unreliable sources and disbelief of all those RS, that vote shows the editor is not accepting what RS say. It shows that the editor is at odds with our RS policy and is not competent to evaluate the reliability of sources, even though that ability is a fundamental and absolute REQUIREMENT here. Such a vote is not welcomed but scorned.
    Yes, editors are allowed to express their opinions, but if those opinions reveal they are not in harmony with our policies or RS, it has consequences for them. We do not allow such editors full and unfettered rights and access to any and all forms of editing, as they cannot be trusted. We clip their wings, and a topic ban is one way to do that. We allow children to play with balls in the gym, but we do not allow them to play with balls in the antique store. -- Valjean (talk) 23:02, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

    Statement by IHateAccounts

    As the editor who left the notification and a polite reminder to Yurivict that they needed to abide by Misplaced Pages policies regarding Misplaced Pages:Reliable sources and WP:FRINGE items such as conspiracy theories, I should make a statement.

    I remain concerned by Yurivict's attempts to push misinformation, disinformation, and conspiracy theories related to elections in the United States. This includes at Jon Ossoff (link ), Matt Bevin (link: ), Andy Beshear (link: ), and Sidney Powell (links: ).

    I am also concerned by their demonstrated disregard or opposition regarding Misplaced Pages:Reliable sources policy, as can be seen in the evidence provided by Hemiauchenia. Similar comments occurred in the thread "Important notices" that following my notification and polite reminder on their talk page (page link as Yurivict has now deleted it from their talk: ), in which they responded to various editors (not just myself): "That edit contained truth, not a fringe theory. Misplaced Pages's reliable sources mechanism is broken and it doesn't allow really reliable sources to be cited" , "I am sorry that you are so brainwashed and so devoid of the ability of independent thought and analysis" , "And when RS is not really RS, your documentation is garbage, garbage in, garbage out" and "The One America News TV channel does honest, excellent reporting; NewsMax accurately reports current US news; The Epoch Times (https://www.theepochtimes.com/) has very reliable information; same can be said about American Thinker (https://www.americanthinker.com/) and Big League Politics (https://bigleaguepolitics.com/). Mass media outlets like CNN/CBS/MSNBC/New York Times/etc don't seem concerned about objective news reporting, and instead have long turned into the instruments of propaganda." This can also be seen in a post they made to Misplaced Pages talk:Reliable sources: .

    They were last warned about inserting WP:FRINGE content into Misplaced Pages in 2018 after a series of comments to Talk:Russian interference in the 2016 United States elections . Reading their edit history, they appear to have stopped in this case after their discussion was closed with the comment "Closed. This borders on trolling. The article cites 406 reliable source that support that Russia interfered with the elections.Misplaced Pages is not a court where proof has to be presented. Come back with 406 reliable sources that say Russia didn't do it and then we will have a basis for a discussion." by MrX . In 2020 similar reminders have not been enough.

    I think their expertise in other matters, such as computer programming, is valuable for wikipedia but in the area of American politics they appear to have trouble with evaluating source reliability. IHateAccounts (talk) 20:24, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

    I would be incomplete if I did not also state my concern with their multiple attempts to paint Valjean as a "far-left activist" in this very discussion . Their comments stating that they "repeatedly asked Valjean to explain his reasoning, and he consistently failed to answer" do not match the evidence in page history. In the thread on Yurivict's talk page, Valjean repeatedly explained their position ("You have a duty to follow that policy and prioritize verifiable information from RS, not your subjective ideas of "truth". That information must come from what we consider RS (IOW accurate sources, regardless of any left or right bias), not from the fringe and unreliable sources that you consider reliable. They are misinforming you.") and Yurivict made repeated and direct insults towards Valjean: "If you really believe so I have no choice but think that you totally lack the ability to discern what is true and what is false, and should never edit Misplaced Pages articles about any subject matter", "Misplaced Pages editors approve what is considered to be a "reliable source", and approve it again by editing accordingly or advocating for the system, like you do here. Which, again, brings us to the conclusion that you can not discern what is true and what is false.", "Hence, this is almost a mathematical proof that you can't discern what is true from what is false" . IHateAccounts (talk) 00:11, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

    Statement by InedibleHulk

    Edit warring and personal attacks are reasonably not cool, but arguing for or against the reliability of sources is fine, it's how we all find consensus (especially at RSN). InedibleHulk (talk) 21:02, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

    I never did any edit warring. I only argue about reliability of sources, specifically about veracity of certain statements in mass media. Yurivict (talk) 21:59, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
    I didn't mean to suggest you were guilty of these things, just that such things should be considered punishable offences, while one's thoughts on reliability (and any related discernment process or system) should not. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:20, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
    I also believe affidavits can be considered credible evidence without being presumed proof. If such credible evidence reportedly exists, that merely disproves a claim of "there is no credible evidence", everything else is everything else. I also believe a desire to investigate or discuss election fairness can be held by anyone concerned, not just Trump supporters, but including them. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:42, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

    Statement by Koncorde

    I am the one mentioned regarding this statement: "Yes, 98% of the batch could just be votes for Biden. Occams razor." To be clear; to me the user was making, has been making, and continues to make unfounded assertions that there is evidence of fraud, that affidavits qualify as such, and that amateur analysis of no notability stand on their own as hard and fast factual interpretations of the facts. In effect;

    1. the user argues that we must reject reliable sources characterising the lack of evidence of fraud as a lack of evidence of fraud.
    2. to do this the user presents unreliable sources (usually the unfiltered claims of lawyers) / primary sources (affidavits, legal submissions, including those not even submitted and never likely to be submitted as a case) and / or use the existence of self published sources and WP:OR as evidence of fraud in order to invalidate the RS opinion.
    3. failure to accept parts 1 and 2 is because "You are extremely biased." Koncorde (talk) 22:36, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

    Statement by Bus stop

    May I weigh in here? I am currently "indefinitely topic banned from all pages and discussions concerning post-1932 American politics". I am especially horrified by the administrators here—Liz, Bishonen, Cullen328. Misplaced Pages is going to become a far-left screed. Nothing but polemic will populate our pages. Opposition should be welcomed. Instead you are silencing people. An article should reflect an adherence to reliable sources and consensus. When you ban people you reduce the likelihood of ever attaining the admittedly elusive WP:NPOV. Administrators should be rejecting this sort of witch-hunt which aims to silence opposing voices. Bus stop (talk) 00:27, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

    The subject of this request has already posited his opposition to "an adherence to reliable sources and consensus" and advocated the use of the least reliable sources currently being promoted. This somewhat renders your argument moot.
    If they were presenting reliable sources that said "woah, look at the mountains of evidence!" clearly we would reflect it. But that isn't what is happened, or is happening. Koncorde (talk) 00:46, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

    Result concerning Yurivict

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • So, Yurivict, are you saying that everyone who believes in and accepts Misplaced Pages's assessment of reliable sources is biased? Because if you do, we are getting into competency territory that is larger than a topic ban. Liz 20:39, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
    • Hemiauchenia's report and diffs as well as IHateAccounts's post are very complete and convincing. Pushing One America News, NewsMax, Epoch Times, and American Thinker as reliable sources, as done here, is nothing short of hair-raising. I strongly support an indefinite topic ban from American politics. Perhaps more is needed, also, in view of the user's general attitude to our policies concerning reliable sources. Bishonen | tålk 20:52, 29 November 2020 (UTC).
    • Sadly, Yurivict rejects at a fundamental level the processes by which Misplaced Pages editors evaluate the reliability of sources. Their repeated insistence that the existence of "affidavits" somehow proves consequential election fraud is ludicrous, and has been universally rejected by judges in all the contested states. Accordingly, I consider a topic ban on post-1932 American politics to be essential, and if they disrupt in other topic areas, an indefinite block will then be required. Cullen Let's discuss it 21:24, 29 November 2020 (UTC)