| Revision as of 13:02, 4 February 2005 editGene s (talk | contribs)3,152 editsNo edit summary← Previous edit | Revision as of 13:48, 4 February 2005 edit undoAndriyK (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers3,870 editsNo edit summaryNext edit → | ||
| Line 28: | Line 28: | ||
| : Please keep in mind that if you revert the article one more time, you will be in violation of the ]. | : Please keep in mind that if you revert the article one more time, you will be in violation of the ]. | ||
| : --] 13:02, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC) | : --] 13:02, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC) | ||
| You even did not try to think about avoiding the confusion and misinforming the reader. | |||
| OK. I will seek for a comment from the comunity. --] 13:48, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC) | |||
| ===A brief summary of the discussion=== | |||
| I removed the word "Russian" from the first sentece of the article, because it can be misleading. A part of the readership can understand it in the present context as "ethnic Russian", which is incorrect. Landau was NOT an ethnic Russian. | |||
| ] insists on using the adjective Russian, because Landau was born in the ] and was a sitizen | |||
| of this country during the first 9 years of his life. (The rest of his life he was a sitizen of Soviet Union, which is NOT the same as Russia.) | |||
| In my opinion, Landau's relation to Russia is described quite clearly in the article. The word "Russian" in the firs sentence gives no additional information but can cause a confusion. From these reasons it should be removed. | |||
| General note: | |||
| * In would suggest the wikipedia comunity to avoid using adjective "Russian" to all people who were born in the Soviet Union or the Russian Empire, uless they are (or were) ethnic Russians. At least, it should be clear from the context or explained explicitely, what the word "Russian" means: citizenship or ethnicity. Otherwise people can consider it as neglecting their actual ethnic identity and feel themselves offended. This is very much NOT in the spirit of the Misplaced Pages. | |||
| Well, the word "Russian" has been often used instead of "Soviet". But | |||
| #this is incorrect. | |||
| #this is offensive with respect to non-Russian ex-Soviets. | |||
| Wrom these reason, Misplaced Pages should avoid this mixing. | |||
| I would be gratefull to the comunity for their comments on the issue. | |||
| --] 13:48, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC) | |||
Revision as of 13:48, 4 February 2005
Please do not call Russian everybody who was born in the Soviet Union or the Russian Empire! People can consider it as neglecting their true ethnic identity. It may offend people.
The word "Russian" may be misinterpreted by the reader. It is not clear what it means in this context: citizenship or ethmicity. The article contains information that L.D.Landau was born in the Russian Empire. So you do not loos any information removing "Russian" from the first sentence. Please do not revert. --AndriyK 12:51, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- Please sign your posts by typing four tildas like this ~~~~
- Please do not confuse ethnicity with relationship to a country. See the definition of Russian, particularly the last entry in the definition. If anyone would follow your logic, there would be no American people at all, because almost everyone there is an emmigrant. As for Landau, he was born in the Russian Empire, spoke Russian, lived in Moscow, died in Moscow, rests in Moscow. Looks like Russian applies to him. --Gene s 12:07, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Everybody knows what means "American". In contrast, "Russian" can be interpreted differently: It can mean "ethnic Russian". It can mean "citizen of Russia (after 1991)" It can mean "citizen of the Russian Empire (before 1917)". To avoid any confusion it should be clear from the context, or explained explicitely, what this word means in every particular case.
If you say: "Landau was Russian" and then you continue: "He was born in the Russian Empire", most of the readers would interpret this as "Landau was ethnic Russian and he was barn in the Russian Empire". So you text would be misunderstood. You should avoid such things in writing for the Misplaced Pages.
The Landau's relation to Russia is described quite clearly in the article. The word "Russian" in the firs sentence gives no additional information but can cause a confusion.
If you would like to add information about Landau's spoken language etc., you are free to do it. --AndriyK 12:51, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- Well, you said Everybody knows what means "American". Please read American and see for yourself that you are wrong.
- Yes, Landau relationship with Russia is described quite clearly in the article. So, the description "Russian" is correct. The google test also proves it: Russian 2,430 vs. Soviet 422 . I basically don't understand the nature of your objection. According to the definition at Russian the description of Landau as Russian is correct.
- Please keep in mind that if you revert the article one more time, you will be in violation of the WP:3RR.
- --Gene s 13:02, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)
You even did not try to think about avoiding the confusion and misinforming the reader. OK. I will seek for a comment from the comunity. --AndriyK 13:48, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)
A brief summary of the discussion
I removed the word "Russian" from the first sentece of the article, because it can be misleading. A part of the readership can understand it in the present context as "ethnic Russian", which is incorrect. Landau was NOT an ethnic Russian.
Gene s insists on using the adjective Russian, because Landau was born in the Russian Empire and was a sitizen of this country during the first 9 years of his life. (The rest of his life he was a sitizen of Soviet Union, which is NOT the same as Russia.)
In my opinion, Landau's relation to Russia is described quite clearly in the article. The word "Russian" in the firs sentence gives no additional information but can cause a confusion. From these reasons it should be removed.
General note:
- In would suggest the wikipedia comunity to avoid using adjective "Russian" to all people who were born in the Soviet Union or the Russian Empire, uless they are (or were) ethnic Russians. At least, it should be clear from the context or explained explicitely, what the word "Russian" means: citizenship or ethnicity. Otherwise people can consider it as neglecting their actual ethnic identity and feel themselves offended. This is very much NOT in the spirit of the Misplaced Pages.
Well, the word "Russian" has been often used instead of "Soviet". But
- this is incorrect.
- this is offensive with respect to non-Russian ex-Soviets.
Wrom these reason, Misplaced Pages should avoid this mixing.
I would be gratefull to the comunity for their comments on the issue. --AndriyK 13:48, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)