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:::::::] also claimed that Whedon's exit from ]'s ''The Nevers'' was a result of HBO parent company ]'s inquiry. "I have no intention of allowing Joss Whedon to use the old Hollywood tactic of 'exiting,'" he tweeted, "This is undoubtedly a result of ."<ref>{{cite web |last1=Kemp |first1=Ella |title=Joss Whedon leaves HBO series ‘The Nevers’ following investigation, Ray Fisher claims |url=https://www.nme.com/en_asia/news/film/joss-whedon-leaves-hbo-series-the-nevers-following-investigation-ray-fisher-claims-2827441 |website=NME |access-date=February 11, 2021|date=November 27, 2020}}</ref> ] had announced on November 25, 2020, that the company had "parted ways" with Whedon; Whedon released his own statement claiming the departure was due to the ].<ref>{{cite web|author=Chris Murphy|date=November 25, 2020|title=Joss Whedon Bows Out of Forthcoming HBO Series The Nevers|url=https://www.vulture.com/2020/11/joss-whedon-exits-hbo-series-the-nevers-amid-allegations.html|access-date=February 10, 2021}}</ref> HBO chief ] declined to elaborate on the decision to part ways<ref>{{cite web |last1=Hibberd |first1=James |title=HBO boss breaks silence on Game of Thrones plans, Joss Whedon controversy, more |url=https://ew.com/tv/hbo-max-boss-breaks-silence-game-thrones-joss-whedon-controversy/ |website=Entertainment Weekly |access-date=11 February 2021 |date=10 February 2021}}</ref> but said HBO had received no complaints about Whedon's behavior.<ref>{{cite web |last1=Maas |first1=Jennifer |title=HBO Received ‘No Complaints’ About Joss Whedon Before He Exited ‘The Nevers,’ Casey Bloys Says |url=https://www.thewrap.com/joss-whedon-the-nevers-hbo-no-complaints-exit/ |website=The Wrap |access-date=11 February 2021 |date=10 February 2021}}</ref>. Nonetheless, HBO stripped Whedon's name from advertisements for the series.<ref>{{cite web |last1=Schaefer |first1=Sandy |title=Joss Whedon Scrubbed From The Nevers Marketing as Buffy Cast Speaks Out |url=https://www.cbr.com/hbo-joss-whedon-scrubbed-from-the-nevers/ |website=CBR |access-date=11 February 2021 |date=11 February 2021}}</ref><ref>{{cite web |last1=Goldberg |first1=Leslie |title=HBO and HBO Max Chief Details 'Game of Thrones' Expansion Plans |url=https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/hbo-and-hbo-max-chief-details-game-of-thrones-expansion-plans |website=The Hollywood Reporter |access-date=11 February 2021 |date=10 February 2021}}</ref> :::::::] also claimed that Whedon's exit from ]'s ''The Nevers'' was a result of HBO parent company ]'s inquiry. "I have no intention of allowing Joss Whedon to use the old Hollywood tactic of 'exiting,'" he tweeted, "This is undoubtedly a result of ."<ref>{{cite web |last1=Kemp |first1=Ella |title=Joss Whedon leaves HBO series ‘The Nevers’ following investigation, Ray Fisher claims |url=https://www.nme.com/en_asia/news/film/joss-whedon-leaves-hbo-series-the-nevers-following-investigation-ray-fisher-claims-2827441 |website=NME |access-date=February 11, 2021|date=November 27, 2020}}</ref> ] had announced on November 25, 2020, that the company had "parted ways" with Whedon; Whedon released his own statement claiming the departure was due to the ].<ref>{{cite web|author=Chris Murphy|date=November 25, 2020|title=Joss Whedon Bows Out of Forthcoming HBO Series The Nevers|url=https://www.vulture.com/2020/11/joss-whedon-exits-hbo-series-the-nevers-amid-allegations.html|access-date=February 10, 2021}}</ref> HBO chief ] declined to elaborate on the decision to part ways<ref>{{cite web |last1=Hibberd |first1=James |title=HBO boss breaks silence on Game of Thrones plans, Joss Whedon controversy, more |url=https://ew.com/tv/hbo-max-boss-breaks-silence-game-thrones-joss-whedon-controversy/ |website=Entertainment Weekly |access-date=11 February 2021 |date=10 February 2021}}</ref> but said HBO had received no complaints about Whedon's behavior.<ref>{{cite web |last1=Maas |first1=Jennifer |title=HBO Received ‘No Complaints’ About Joss Whedon Before He Exited ‘The Nevers,’ Casey Bloys Says |url=https://www.thewrap.com/joss-whedon-the-nevers-hbo-no-complaints-exit/ |website=The Wrap |access-date=11 February 2021 |date=10 February 2021}}</ref>. Nonetheless, HBO stripped Whedon's name from advertisements for the series.<ref>{{cite web |last1=Schaefer |first1=Sandy |title=Joss Whedon Scrubbed From The Nevers Marketing as Buffy Cast Speaks Out |url=https://www.cbr.com/hbo-joss-whedon-scrubbed-from-the-nevers/ |website=CBR |access-date=11 February 2021 |date=11 February 2021}}</ref><ref>{{cite web |last1=Goldberg |first1=Leslie |title=HBO and HBO Max Chief Details 'Game of Thrones' Expansion Plans |url=https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/hbo-and-hbo-max-chief-details-game-of-thrones-expansion-plans |website=The Hollywood Reporter |access-date=11 February 2021 |date=10 February 2021}}</ref>
::::::] (]) 22:59, 11 February 2021 (UTC) ::::::] (]) 22:59, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
{{reflist-talk}}
:::::::{{u|Gershonmk}}, I would agree with that last framing, minus the last sentence. The sources only say they aren't using him in the marketing materials, not that he was in them and removed (scrubbed/stripped). {{tq|"We were already planning, as you saw, to not say "From Joss Whedon" or "the director of ." It hasn't really affected the campaign."}} (Headlines are not ], we ignore that part of sources.) I think we should keep the one sentence in the projects section also. ]&nbsp;] 23:14, 11 February 2021 (UTC) :::::::{{u|Gershonmk}}, I would agree with that last framing, minus the last sentence. The sources only say they aren't using him in the marketing materials, not that he was in them and removed (scrubbed/stripped). {{tq|"We were already planning, as you saw, to not say "From Joss Whedon" or "the director of ." It hasn't really affected the campaign."}} (Headlines are not ], we ignore that part of sources.) I think we should keep the one sentence in the projects section also. ]&nbsp;] 23:14, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
::::::::{{u|Schazjmd}} The reporter says "which couldn't have been your original plan" and Bloys answers "Yes, you would expect to have that name." Thank you for the info re: headlines, I read too quickly to register that it wasn't repeated in the body. ] (]) 23:39, 11 February 2021 (UTC) ::::::::{{u|Schazjmd}} The reporter says "which couldn't have been your original plan" and Bloys answers "Yes, you would expect to have that name." Thank you for the info re: headlines, I read too quickly to register that it wasn't repeated in the body. ] (]) 23:39, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

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Did You Know A fact from this article appeared on Misplaced Pages's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on September 25, 2014.The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that when asked why he writes such strong female characters, Joss Whedon (pictured) replied, "Because you're still asking me that question"?
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RE: Names of public figures' children

There was an RfC about this specifically two years ago at Talk:Brian Austin Green#RfC: Names and DOB's of children in a BLP, where the closing consensus reads, "The policy on biographies of living persons clearly leaves the inclusion of details of family members up to the discretion of the article's editors, as long as the information is well-sourced. All editors seem to agree that there are reliable sources, and the overwhelming majority of editors favor keeping full names and dates of birth of the children in the article." This has generally meant that if the parents or their representatives announce it to the media themselves, or there are incontrovertible sources such as an RS citing a birth certificate, that this is allowable as pertinent biographical data.

In this case, aside from the RS British newspaper The Telegraph, there is an LA Times article in which the parents themselves had the reporter in their home and introduced the children. .--Tenebrae (talk) 22:00, 22 August 2017 (UTC)

Ex-wife's accusations

Anyone can accuse anyone of anything — that doesn't mean we include it. As to one editor's point that the accusations are notable because they were published in an essay on an RS trade cite and helped lead to the shutdown of a large fan site, attracting RS press attention, fine — but all we have to say is "accused him of infidelity." There is absolutely no need to go into blow-by-blow detail. --Tenebrae (talk) 14:06, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

I agree, WP:BLPGOSSIP suggest to "Avoid repeating gossip" and WP:RUMOR states "rumor, even from reliable sources, are not appropriate encyclopedic content." What Tenebrae suggested above should be sufficient to cover the events that led to the shutdown.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 14:18, 25 August 2017 (UTC)
Several Joss Whedon related websites and organizations have officially decided that Kai Cole's essay is a private matter and unrelated to Joss Whedon's work (the Whedonverse). Several people raised questions about the timing of the essay release; it was delayed beyond the normal timing of such a missive. Drbits (talk) 05:01, 25 November 2017 (UTC)

Closing Whedonesque.com

Various Joss Whedon related websites, facebook pages, and twitter pages have closed over time. Past closures have always been because the workload got too high or the editor's time constraints changed. This is just a statement of history, not specifically related to Whedonesque. None of the other Joss Whedon related fan sites, pages, or conventions have closed in the past year.

Joss Whedon is an outspoken activist against Donald J. Trump's anti-female agenda. For example, Joss started and seed-funded a "Save Planned Parenthood" campaign. He has admitted to being angered by women who support Trump and not being careful enough in his responses. The "attacks" listed in the Feminism section were not against the women, but a knee-jerk reaction against what they were supporting. Drbits (talk) 05:01, 25 November 2017 (UTC)

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Frequent casting criteria

Yes, we can't have everyone, but the current criteria are just stupid. It excludes Eliza Dushku who played a major supporting character (Faith) in Buffy and Angel, and was the lead in Dollhouse, since she played the same role in two of the productions. It includes Carlos Jacott and Jonathan M. Woodward who both played bit parts or supporting roles in three episodes, each in a different series. Andy Umberger was at least recurring, albeit on a near-bit part level, in Buffy.

Suggestion: Change the criteria to something like "starring/main cast, recurring or supporting roles in three or more Whedon productions". The whole "different roles" thing doesn't exactly show off who Joss's favorites are, which is sort of the point of the table. 130.239.26.87 (talk) 16:19, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

Frequent Casting - part 2

Frequent Casting currently says it is for actors who have played at least two different roles in the Joss Whedon projects. So I can’t believe you’re missing Adam Baldwin and Gina Torres. Both of them were in Angel, Firefly, and Serenity. Minicarmen (talk) 06:26, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

HBO connection to Justice League investigation

@Schazjmd Trying to reach consensus on this because I do think it belongs in the harassment timeline. Proposed edit:

On 25 November, 2020, HBO announced that the company had "parted ways" with Whedon; Whedon released his own statement claiming the departure was due to the COVID-19 Pandemic. Ray Fisher immediately responded, tweeting "I have no intention of allowing Joss Whedon to use the old Hollywood tactic of 'exiting' . . . This is undoubtedly a result of ."
I disagree. HBO said specifically: “No, we had no, no complaints or no reports of inappropriate behavior,”. Fisher (who wasn't on The Nevers) speculating that it was connected to the investigation doesn't make it connected, and I think we need reliable, independent sources making that connection before we do it in the article. Schazjmd (talk) 14:58, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
Obviously Fisher speculating isn't enough, and I understand your point of view. But reports have repeatedly linked the events (including in that article) and HBO has not denied it or contradicted it. I'm also not sure if The Wrap means on that set or generally, plus they've stealth-edited (I've archived now). I'll try again:
On 25 November, 2020, HBO announced that the company had "parted ways" with Whedon; Whedon released his own statement claiming the departure was due to the COVID-19 Pandemic. Ray Fisher immediately responded, tweeting "I have no intention of allowing Joss Whedon to use the old Hollywood tactic of 'exiting' . . . This is undoubtedly a result of ." HBO chief Casey Bloys declined to elaborate on the decision to part ways but said HBO had received no complaints about Whedon's behavior..
I read the articles as adding background (what's currently going on with Whedon), not as explicitly relating his departure from The Nevers to the complaints or investigation by another network. "He left the show while bad stuff was going on in other places" is not equivalent to "He left the show because bad stuff was going on in other places". We don't have any sources establishing whether HBO initiated the departure or Whedon did. Making his departure from The Nevers an explicit part of the narrative of actors' complaints is WP:SYNTH until sources take that step. I think the tip-toeing through the minefield in which journalists mention the investigation while refusing to actually say it's connected is because none of us/them have any solid evidence to make that claim. Hopefully, more editors will weigh in here. Schazjmd (talk) 17:04, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

References

  1. Chris Murphy (November 25, 2020). "Joss Whedon Bows Out of Forthcoming HBO Series The Nevers". Retrieved February 10, 2021.
  2. Kemp, Ella (November 27, 2020). "Joss Whedon leaves HBO series 'The Nevers' following investigation, Ray Fisher claims". NME. Retrieved February 11, 2021.
  3. Chris Murphy (November 25, 2020). "Joss Whedon Bows Out of Forthcoming HBO Series The Nevers". Retrieved February 10, 2021.
  4. Kemp, Ella (November 27, 2020). "Joss Whedon leaves HBO series 'The Nevers' following investigation, Ray Fisher claims". NME. Retrieved February 11, 2021.
  5. Hibberd, James (10 February 2021). "HBO boss breaks silence on Game of Thrones plans, Joss Whedon controversy, more". Entertainment Weekly. Retrieved 11 February 2021.
  6. Maas, Jennifer (10 February 2021). "HBO Received 'No Complaints' About Joss Whedon Before He Exited 'The Nevers,' Casey Bloys Says". The Wrap. Retrieved 11 February 2021.
@Schazjmd I meant it in a "people are speculating based on the circumstances, and especially Fisher's tweet" way, not "this is true." If the speculation has become a feature of the reporting by reputable sources (and it has), then it's independently worthy of inclusion, but that doesn't mean we can write "people are saying." I was trying to relay the information that's out there, in roughly the context that reputable sources have, and let people draw their own conclusions. HBO has stripped his name from advertisements for the show and said (to THR) that they had already planned to before the latest stuff, i.e. based on the circumstances of his exit. Let's try one more round, though I second the call for wider input:
On 25 November, 2020, HBO announced that the company had "parted ways" with Whedon; Whedon released his own statement claiming the departure was due to the COVID-19 Pandemic. Ray Fisher immediately responded, tweeting "I have no intention of allowing Joss Whedon to use the old Hollywood tactic of 'exiting' . . . This is undoubtedly a result of ." HBO chief Casey Bloys declined to elaborate on the decision to part ways but said HBO had received no complaints about Whedon's behavior.. Nonetheless, HBO stripped Whedon's name from advertisements for the series.
Another way we could do it is frame it entirely around Fisher's involvement in the previous paragraph, making the nature of transition clearer, though that messes with the chronological arrangement a bit and over-stresses Fisher's relevance:
Ray Fisher also claimed that Whedon's exit from HBO's The Nevers was a result of HBO parent company WarnerMedia's inquiry. "I have no intention of allowing Joss Whedon to use the old Hollywood tactic of 'exiting,'" he tweeted, "This is undoubtedly a result of ." HBO had announced on November 25, 2020, that the company had "parted ways" with Whedon; Whedon released his own statement claiming the departure was due to the COVID-19 Pandemic. HBO chief Casey Bloys declined to elaborate on the decision to part ways but said HBO had received no complaints about Whedon's behavior.. Nonetheless, HBO stripped Whedon's name from advertisements for the series.
Gershonmk (talk) 22:59, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

References

  1. Chris Murphy (November 25, 2020). "Joss Whedon Bows Out of Forthcoming HBO Series The Nevers". Retrieved February 10, 2021.
  2. Kemp, Ella (November 27, 2020). "Joss Whedon leaves HBO series 'The Nevers' following investigation, Ray Fisher claims". NME. Retrieved February 11, 2021.
  3. Hibberd, James (10 February 2021). "HBO boss breaks silence on Game of Thrones plans, Joss Whedon controversy, more". Entertainment Weekly. Retrieved 11 February 2021.
  4. Maas, Jennifer (10 February 2021). "HBO Received 'No Complaints' About Joss Whedon Before He Exited 'The Nevers,' Casey Bloys Says". The Wrap. Retrieved 11 February 2021.
  5. Schaefer, Sandy (11 February 2021). "Joss Whedon Scrubbed From The Nevers Marketing as Buffy Cast Speaks Out". CBR. Retrieved 11 February 2021.
  6. Goldberg, Leslie (10 February 2021). "HBO and HBO Max Chief Details 'Game of Thrones' Expansion Plans". The Hollywood Reporter. Retrieved 11 February 2021.
  7. Kemp, Ella (November 27, 2020). "Joss Whedon leaves HBO series 'The Nevers' following investigation, Ray Fisher claims". NME. Retrieved February 11, 2021.
  8. Chris Murphy (November 25, 2020). "Joss Whedon Bows Out of Forthcoming HBO Series The Nevers". Retrieved February 10, 2021.
  9. Hibberd, James (10 February 2021). "HBO boss breaks silence on Game of Thrones plans, Joss Whedon controversy, more". Entertainment Weekly. Retrieved 11 February 2021.
  10. Maas, Jennifer (10 February 2021). "HBO Received 'No Complaints' About Joss Whedon Before He Exited 'The Nevers,' Casey Bloys Says". The Wrap. Retrieved 11 February 2021.
  11. Schaefer, Sandy (11 February 2021). "Joss Whedon Scrubbed From The Nevers Marketing as Buffy Cast Speaks Out". CBR. Retrieved 11 February 2021.
  12. Goldberg, Leslie (10 February 2021). "HBO and HBO Max Chief Details 'Game of Thrones' Expansion Plans". The Hollywood Reporter. Retrieved 11 February 2021.
Gershonmk, I would agree with that last framing, minus the last sentence. The sources only say they aren't using him in the marketing materials, not that he was in them and removed (scrubbed/stripped). "We were already planning, as you saw, to not say "From Joss Whedon" or "the director of ." It hasn't really affected the campaign." (Headlines are not WP:RS, we ignore that part of sources.) I think we should keep the one sentence in the projects section also. Schazjmd (talk) 23:14, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
Schazjmd The reporter says "which couldn't have been your original plan" and Bloys answers "Yes, you would expect to have that name." Thank you for the info re: headlines, I read too quickly to register that it wasn't repeated in the body. Gershonmk (talk) 23:39, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

Lede – Accusations

Hi, I have edited the introduction to exclude names of people who have not explicitly accused Whedon of "workplace harassment"; I did this because of this policy: WP:BLPREMOVE. We have to be careful to remain neutral and ensure verifiable evidence is included elsewhere in the article (if not in the lede). I removed reference to the enquiry because it no longer seems important enough for this section. However, please discuss here and wait for consensus before editing this section to include additional names (unless new information arises).

Cheers, AussieWikiDan 15:02, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

@AussieWikiDan Benson has, in fact, accused him explicitly, writing that he created a "toxic environment." So has Momoa, who said Whedon had treated him in a "shitty way" and "serious stuff went down." This is discussed in the "workplace harassment" section. Re the second line: IMO the support of co-stars is not important enough for the lede, but WarnerMedia's punishment is. I created that line in the lede yesterday, you edited it, I reverted it, suggesting we discuss it on the talk page. You have now reverted it back to your version, engaging in edit warring. Gershonmk (talk) 15:20, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

Gershonmk this isn't personal. If you read the link to the policy I supplied, it is not considered in breach of the edit warring policy if I am reverting contentious material regarding BLPs. Benson and Momoa did not explicitly accuse him personally of "workplace harassment" towards them. If you want to re-work the lede to make this clear and include the Warner information that would not be contentious, although it may be more appropriate to keep solely in the category (preventing future expansion of the lede). The main accusers are listed in the lede and therefore I believe it should stay as is. AussieWikiDan 15:47, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
AussieWikiDan I assume you are editing in good faith, and I ask you to assume the same about me. However, it is essential to understand that none of the actors have used the term "workplace harassment"; rather, that is the umbrella term which I used when I created the section to discuss their comments, under which term I believe the allegations of Benson and Momoa fall.
Further, my position was and is that your proposed version of the lede is untrue about Benson and Momoa, in that they have not merely lent support. Do you really think BLP policy means it is never edit warring to remove information from a BLP article? If you make the same edit repeatedly, even though it was reverted and is under discussion on the talk page, you are engaging in edit warring. Gershonmk (talk) 16:24, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
I notice the phrase "towards them" above. There is a difference between accusing someone of a particular behavior and accusing someone of a particular behavior towards them. The lead section does not say who he is accused of being abusive to. — BarrelProof (talk) 22:28, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
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