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view · edit Frequently asked questions Q1. Why is the article's name "Czech Republic" and not "Czechia"? The "Czech Republic" is the official name of the country and the term is so far more widely used and recognized in English than "Czechia". The name of the Misplaced Pages article is attributed to a broad consensus on this page (Talk:Czech Republic/Archive 7#Requested move 19 June 2018), which was unchanged after a subsequent discussion at Talk:Czech Republic/Archive 8#Requested move 22 November 2019 and Talk:Czech_Republic/Archive_10#Requested_move_25_July_2021. This question may be revisited in the future. There is a nine-month moratorium in place for further requested moves on this topic. It will expire on 26 July, 2025. Q2. Is this the correct place to discuss whether to use "Czech Republic" vs. "Czechia" in other Misplaced Pages articles? No, this talk page is only for discussing improvements to the article "Czech Republic", the same goes for other article talk pages.

This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

This article has previously been nominated to be moved. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination. Discussions: RM, Czech Republic → Czechia, not moved, 26 September 2005, (discussion) RM, Czech Republic → Czechia, not moved, 15 April 2016, (discussion) RM, Czech Republic → Czechia, not moved, 21 October 2016, (discussion) RM, Czech Republic → Czechia, not moved, 19 June 2018, (discussion) RM, Czech Republic → Czechia, not moved, 22 November 2019, (discussion)

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Preparation for the inevitable RM

It's extremely likely that there will be an RM in the first few days after the moratorium expires; I've considered requesting it myself. Because the sources given in 2019 were insufficient to move the page, it stands to reason that sources postdating the RM are necessary to get the discussion off the ground. And as I see it, the moratorium doesn't prevent us from collecting sources before 29 November. O.N.R.  05:24, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

Such collecting should not be done on this page. This is the sort of thing your sandbox is for. --Khajidha (talk) 15:13, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

Well, we can always hope people decide not to bother. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:22, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

As you can see, the moratorium expired, no "inevitable" RM happened. People know better and do not want to waste their "once per year try" until something decisive occurs. And some people also proposed longer moratoriums next time, so why waste it now. Now it only has slow and steady growth below the threshold, maybe, nothing too exciting for Misplaced Pages. Events like Olympics may help, but as I can tell there won't be any surprise/change there. Or do you think your new collection of sources will be persuasive, more convincing than last year, convincing enough to really move? Well, French Misplaced Pages switched, 4 years after introduction of the short name, I know it has zero effect on English Misplaced Pages, but hey, something :) So no, I would advice others not to waste the RM try. Chrzwzcz (talk) 23:27, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

Collecting sources on a talk page in preparation for a discussion is discussion. Collect them elsewhere, of course, whenever and wherever you want, but please not here. I'm sure there's nothing preventing you from being able to wait that long. Largoplazo (talk) 21:58, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

This change will come, though. Over the last decade, the arguments on this talk page from those who were opposed to the change have gone from "Czechia isn't a word" to "It will never catch on" to "It will never be the majority use" to "It's not the majority use YET." And they're right, it isn't yet, and until it is at least very common in many different circles, we don't change. Those are Misplaced Pages's rules. --Doric Loon (talk) 22:11, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

Does anybody use eSwatini? CzechReb (talk) 17:01, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

It’s time to change the name of the article. Czechia is obviously going to prevail everywhere. You can find it even in wikipedia more and more often. The short-form name hasn’t won yet but its ultimate victory is inevitable. You can delay the change but you can’t prevent it. CzechReb (talk) 16:58, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages doesn't strive to stay ahead of the curve but to follow it. The time to change it will be when "Czechia" has prevailed, not when people declare it obvious (to them) that it will prevail. Largoplazo (talk) 17:03, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

Did wikipedia follow the curve in the case of eSwatini? CzechReb (talk) 18:43, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

If it didn't, then the place to address that is at the Eswatini article. Doing wrong in one place does not justify doing wrong elsewhere. --Khajidha (talk) 19:04, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

I don’t understand one thing. Eswatini has been moved (I don't oppose it) but Czechia is forbidden altogether. Even using of this word is forbidden and punished. Although it is an official name by the decision of the Czech government. Our government decided that we can use it. So what is more authoritative? A government‘s decision or a wikipedia’s decision? CzechReb (talk) 19:51, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

On Misplaced Pages? Misplaced Pages's decision. --Khajidha (talk) 20:14, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

And governments that don't like WP:s decions block WP in their country. It's the established whatever. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 20:33, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

Has any country actually blocked Misplaced Pages for naming them contrary to their official name? Largoplazo (talk) 22:29, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

Not that I know of. Turkey and China had other reasons. India recently rumbled a bit about a map used on WP, and Pakistan about content they didn't like. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:08, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

2Khajidha That’s what I wanted to hear. Your community rules are above a government’s decision. A decision of a few wikipedians is more binding than a decision of a state government which has been voted by millions of people. Thank you very much for your response. CzechReb (talk) 08:40, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

Somewhat reassuring, isn't it. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:08, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

Why would you expect any different? Misplaced Pages is not a Czech company or in any way related to the country. By what logic would you contend that the Czech government would have jurisdiction over our actions? --Khajidha (talk) 10:17, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

It’s not a matter of jurisdiction. Naturally you don’t have to obey to any of the Czech government’s decision. But your striking disrespect to the recommendation relating to our short-form name is really startling. Ouh I’ve forgotten you are those who decide what is our country’s name not our government. You are treating us like a colony. CzechReb (talk) 16:23, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

Perhaps The ministry of the interior of the Czech Republic can advise you on how to proceed. Or the government of same. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:43, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

Haha, again with this very bad example, very bad. Ministry will always use political name in its title, that is what is designed for, my god. Political name - government. Simple as that. Eg. Slovakia also uses Slovak Republic for its political institutions in English (and Slovak) and it is not a point against short name! (BTW Czech Minister of Foreign Affair uses "Czechia" a lot in his tweets.) To sum up: I don't say it is time to rename the article, but: to be fair and do not expect short name on places designed for political name. You can mock Czechia for not using its short name in places like sport or turism, but hardly in the names of ministries (or on passports). Chrz (talk) 21:12, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

So when the gov use Czech Republic it's ok, but when en-WP does it it's colonialism? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 22:15, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

What?! The name of the authority in English is "Government of the Czech Republic". You can say things like Czech government, government of Czechia, but official name is still "Government of the Czech Republic". Government can use both Czechia and Czech Republic, but it can't say its official name contains Czechia, it does not. "Government of the Slovak Republic" - same thing and no effect for its short name in English here. Chrz (talk) 15:44, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

So, The ministry of the interior of the Czech Republic will not change its name, it is political authority so and uses political name of the country in its TITLE (in Czech too), simple as that. But it does not stop it to use Czechia everywhere else other than in its own name, eg. here. Do not search for names of institutions, search for press releases and news articles. Chrz (talk) 22:01, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

Again: Absolutely nothing will be done to change the applicable guidelines, ever, based on discussions taking place here. Setting that aside, (a) you continue to ignore that "Czech Republic" is still an official name of the country, so your argument against that name on the grounds that we should use the official name is absurd, and (b) nobody here is deciding what the name of the country is, we are observing what people are calling it. If you're going to argue about it (wherever you argue about it), at least argue over what's actually happening, not over a fictitious scenario you have in your head. If you don't like that reliable sources aren't calling it "Czechia" yet, go argue it with them. (c) I await your comments about the gross disrespect shown by the Czech people for the people of Deutschland and Österreich by naming Misplaced Pages articles about those countries "Německo" and "Rakousko". Largoplazo (talk) 17:08, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

Also, let's talk about the massive disrespect shown even by the Czech people toward the Czech people by daring to name their own embassy in Washington "Embassy of the Czech Republic" on its own home page to this very day. This massive self-disrespect must not be tolerated one instant longer! Largoplazo (talk) 17:25, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

Embassy of the United States, Prague — Preceding unsigned comment added by CzechReb (talk • contribs) 18:13, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

Wow. The gaslighting in this conversation is ridiculous. talk, those sarcastic comments completely miss the point, as talk has clearly explained. I think you should step back from this discussion and any role in decision-making on this question until you can be rational and adhere to WP:WQ. Elcalebo (talk) 18:04, 9 February 2021 (UTC)

No, we are not saying we decide what your country's name is. We are saying that we will decide how to translate that name into our language. Obviously the Czech government has no power to control words in a language not their own. If anything, it is your position that is showing massive disrespect towards the English language community. --Khajidha (talk) 18:19, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

The English language community would like to call the Czech republic by its short-form name. I just want to give those people an opportunity to do it. CzechReb (talk) 18:37, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

Ah. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:44, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

If the English language community wanted to call the Czech Republic by its short-form name there wouldn't be such difficulty in finding sources that do so. --Khajidha (talk) 18:46, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

Well, to be fair, it's not that hard. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:55, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

In a large enough quantity to displace the Czech Republic as the standard usage? --Khajidha (talk) 19:00, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

No, I was just quibbling on your choice of words, as in it's not difficult to find en-sources that use Czechia. But it's even easier to find en-souces that use Czech republic. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 20:10, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

"Czechia" is an official name, so that should dispense with any objection to us using another name that is also an official name. Your government saying you can use it doesn't mean that anybody has to. Even if the your government had decreed to Czechs (because nobody else is subject to their command) "Thou shalt not ever again call this country 'The Czech Republic'" and had asked international organizations to list them as "Czechia" alone, the consensus that Wikipedians have come to for Misplaced Pages's purposes is that we don't go by what's "authoritative". We go by what's in predominate use. WP:COMMONNAME, which captures this consensus, has the details. Largoplazo (talk) 22:29, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

We go by what's in predominate use. A truly scientific approach. CzechReb (talk) 08:33, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

That's how the English language works. --Khajidha (talk) 10:17, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

It's unclear what you think science has to do with it. Was the addition of the shorter name in 2016 the result of a scientific discovery? For that matter, have you ever complained on Czech Misplaced Pages that they keep using the titles "Německo" and "Rakousko" instead of the more "scientific" "Deutschland" and "Österreich"?

You should take any further debate on the guideline itself to Misplaced Pages talk:Article titles, as that's the only place where discussion can lead to a change in these guidelines. No discussion here can lead to their alteration. Largoplazo (talk) 12:12, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages doesn't strive to stay ahead of the curve but to follow it. While this is generally true, article names are partially an exception - see WP:NAMECHANGES, particularly when this occurs, we give extra weight to reliable sources written after the name change. We still need to see sources indicating that the name has changed, but we often update article names very quickly when it's clear that it has. --Aquillion (talk) 20:12, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

What you prescribe is properly described as following the curve, consistent with my remarks. I didn't say years behind. Largoplazo (talk) 21:15, 9 February 2021 (UTC)

So, again, show us that the preponderance of NEW sources use Czechia. Note that articles that basically say "Hey guys, it would be really neat-o if you would call us Czechia" don't count. We need to see things like "Czechia joins coalition against ISIS" or "COVID-19 cases in Czechia are down" or "take your next vacation in Czechia", etc. Use of the name, not mention of (and pleading for usage) it. --Khajidha (talk) 20:34, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

Agreed.(KIENGIR (talk) 07:38, 2 February 2021 (UTC))

Actual name

It's actually named Czechia in the 14th October of 2016 the Czech republic officially changed it's name to make the name shorter. — Preceding unsigned comment added by PushPlush (talk • contribs) 18:48, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

Please see all the previous discussions of this. The summary is:

• They made the short name available.
• It didn't replace the long official name.
• We follow the guidance in WP:COMMONNAME and WP:NAMECHANGE in determining the title for an article. The number one take-away is that the official name isn't really relevant (besides which, see my previous point).
• Every once in a while a new discussion is initiated to review whether the use of the new name has proliferated sufficiently that the new title has become the appropriate one for the article under that guidance. Because people kept discussing the matter ad nauseam, a moratorium was finally enacted, and later renewed once or twice after further discussions. I believe the latest one has expired.

Largoplazo (talk) 21:54, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

It's good that the moratorium on discussing this has expired because the change still needs to take place. We don't call the articles "Slovak Republic" or "French Republic". Nor should this one be called "Czech Republic". Elcalebo (talk) 18:04, 9 February 2021 (UTC)

So? Usage outside Misplaced Pages is overwhelmingly in favor of the Czech Republic for this country and Slovakia for the other. That's just reality. Whether it SHOULD be "_________ Republic" for both or "__________ia" for both is a question that we don't care about. English doesn't do "should be". Usage is usage. --Khajidha (talk) 18:23, 9 February 2021 (UTC)

Use of short-form name in article (separate issue from title)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

An edit I made earlier today to the article per WP:BOLD that edited the article for conciseness, changing several phrasings and using the "short-form name, Czechia" (quoting the first line of the article) was reverted with no other reason listed by the reverter, Gråbergs Gråa Sång than that they disagreed (while seemingly mocking my minor typo in the edit summary, thank you for following Misplaced Pages:Civility). I made this change in order to, as mentioned in the edit summary, make some of the sentences a bit more concise and clear, as continually using the long-form name (especially when juxtapositioned with the short-form names of other states) ends up being unnecessarily wordy. As per the WP:BRD cycle, what do others feel that could be improved about this edit, such that I might iterate an improved version of it? To be clear, this has nothing to do with the issue of the name of the article which I see has been heavily discussed above - only the using of a short-form name in the article itself. Hentheden (talk) 18:05, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

Actual, real-world, off Misplaced Pages usage is overwhelmingly in favor of Czech Republic in all cases. Including "when juxtapositioned with the short-form names of other states". Far from this usage seeming odd, it is absolutely normal for this country and using the short form instead is what stands out as odd. --Khajidha (talk) 19:25, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

Welcome. Two three editors guard it, Czechia won't pass through them, we should consider lucky that it was mercifully allowed in the first sentence... but boy, the struggle it was! Usage is usage but Misplaced Pages (or these two three) will allow only one form, be it 51%:49% real-world ratio, Misplaced Pages MUST be 100%:0%. So do not tell me about usage. And mocking - yes, typical. Chrz (talk) 22:06, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

Per MOS:GEO, this is not in fact a separate issue from the title. The name in the title is the name we should be using in prose (both here and elsewhere). The fact that you prefer a different form is not a good reason not to follow the MOS. Kahastok talk 22:55, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

In that case Misplaced Pages does not follow usage, all the synonyms and all. It chooses the most used form and pushes it everywhere. Chrz (talk) 13:54, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

Show me any significant coverage of this country in other sources that switches between "Czech Republic" and "Czechia". Everything I've seen has been one or the other. With (as said before) "Czech Republic" as the overwhelmingly most common usage. Not to mention the fact that we don't switch between synonyms for other articles either. --Khajidha (talk) 16:23, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

It is not just about this article. There, so do not tell me about usage. It is just Misplaced Pages policy (or your interpretation of it) - one name, no synonyms, ever. Such policy is understandable in case of "spelling-twins", it would look strange to swicth between them randomly in one article. Czechia is not the case. And "overwhelmingly" is so 2016 :) Chrz (talk) 16:50, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

Yes, it's Misplaced Pages policy to use the same name for a country as that used for its article when talking about that country in articles (its own and all others). From the previously linked MOS:GEO: "Places should generally be referred to consistently by the same name as in the title of their article". The exceptions noted further on already apply. We talk about Bohemia and Moravia or Czechoslovakia or whatever in articles as relevant to the time being discussed. We DON'T, however, switch between "France" and the "French Republic", which is the equivalent of what you are proposing. --Khajidha (talk) 17:36, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

I am proposing you don't speak about "usage". Misplaced Pages clearly does not follow real life distribution of usage of several synonyms. It simply picks the winning one, no matter what - In case of two names, 49.99 % of sources can be ommited, in case of three names, up to 66.66 %. It seems OK, to be consistent and all, but by choosing sides it further deepens the gap. And further influences the real life sources itself. (51 % sources uses it -> Misplaced Pages uses it -> sources see what Misplaced Pages uses as "standard" and start/switch to use it as well -> 52 % sources uses it... 53 %..) Or I give Misplaced Pages too much credit and noone sees it as (one of) English language standard givers. Chrz (talk) 20:17, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

1) I don't know why you are confused, but "following usage" has always meant the predominant usage. That's why it's called "common name". 2) No, Misplaced Pages is not a major standard giver for English.--Khajidha (talk) 23:04, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

Not confused, but Misplaced Pages is certainly not mirroring the real world when it is capable to ignore up to 49.99 % sources (usage). "Fun" fact: Some Czech wise guys (even the ones designated to promote the short name) say that they won't use Czechia, because English Misplaced Pages does not either. Closed loop reasoning. Bad people in charge. Not Misplaced Pages problem. But hey, here we talked about throwing a synonym here and there, not changing the name of the article... Chrz (talk) 23:50, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

Khajidha's argumentation is correct, I don't see why other do not get the point really. Boring.(KIENGIR (talk) 10:49, 14 February 2021 (UTC))

Oh wow. Chrz (talk) 10:55, 14 February 2021 (UTC)

There are lots of people/places/things that are (in the real world) referred to by multiple names. We don't write articles about them using a mixture of those names to "follow real life distribution of usage of several synonyms". Why would you expect us to do that here? --Khajidha (talk) 17:37, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, but these are "United States - United States of America" or "Peter Smith - Mr. Smith - Peter" kind of synonyms, perfectly OK to use this or that several times in an article. Chrz (talk) 19:46, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

Exactly which countries do we do this for? The article is at France. We don't generally write about the French Republic. The article is at Greece. We don't generally write about the Hellenic Republic. But both short and long names are mentioned in the lead. Even the one that you mention (the US) is generally referred to only as the "United States", not the "United States of America". We treat the Czech Republic just like we do any other country, save that the pattern is reversed. Most countries the short name is more common than the long one. That isn't true here. In the case of this country the long form is much more common. Why? Doesn't matter. It just is. --Khajidha (talk) 20:45, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

In that case Czechia is special case without any direct analogy (because of that "strange" reversed pattern). So nothing unusual that it is discussed more.Chrz (talk) 22:12, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

• There's nothing unusual about this case, other than that an unusually large group of editors are here trying to argue for special status to be given to a government mandated English name that isn't yet the common name. Until and unless there is consensus that the common name has changed, the article should stick to using the current title, with the only mention of Czechia being as an alt title in the lead. We don't flip flop between names in the prose, that would just be confusing for readers.  — Amakuru (talk) 22:45, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

Sources do "flip flop" occasionally. Readers are not confused bacause the names are logically similar (eg. Czech Republic versus Bohemia would be much more confusing), do not underestimate readers. Misplaced Pages does not want to flip flop, it wants to declare only one victor, what can we do. Try to make a special case or surrender. Chrz (talk) 08:09, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

Frankly, the notion that following the sources means matching precisely the proportion of usages in reliable sources is absurd. It's also not what was proposed by the OP, so it's really just a straw man.

This is not about having a "victor" or a "surrender". The fact that you see it that way is part of the problem. What we do is start from the relevant policies and guidelines, and reach a conclusion based on what they say. We have done this several times now and the result is Czech Republic. Policy and guidelines then tell us to refer to the Czech Republic when discussing the country. So that is what we do.

It's not about personal preference, and it's not about winning and losing. It's about doing what's best for our readers based on our policies and our guidelines. Kahastok talk 17:55, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

It was about this: Throw in a few Czechias there (eg. where it makes more sence than bulky constructions like "Music of the Czech Republic comprises the musical traditions of that state or the historical entities of which it is compound, i.e. the Czech lands (Bohemia, Moravia, Czech Silesia).") It won't be confusing at all, these are not spelling twins, just shorter and longer names which are perfectly OK to use and spice an article with (some sources do that). You say it is not OK, just one name, everywhere, no exception, deadly sin. I was not proposing to match proportion of the sources. I was clarifying your "usage", that it does not mean usage-usage, just plain "most used". Nothing more. We will all laugh one day how this was possible, several wikipedians protecting wikipedia not to include the term one day too soon excusing it like higeest policy of Misplaced Pages. Let's stall a bit more then. Chrz (talk) 20:57, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

Czech Republic before 1993

Delusion of naming consistency leads to this and . You cannot use Czech Republic for past, it brings jewels like kings of the Czech Republic and other "surprises". There are two sulutions

1. keep two names: Czech lands (or Bohemia here and there) for past, Czech Republic for present - stable solution on Misplaced Pages, no need to push it forwards to crazy new places
2. use one unifying geographical name: Czechia - will not pass, but at least you can see the benefits...

This is not move request or new round of it. Chrz (talk) 19:27, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

I think there may be a guideline somewhere to use or at least mention name at the time, like Miloš Zeman was born in Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia. 2 names may not be enough. In your first link, Czech lands may be ok, or perhaps something like "present day CR"/"the area". Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 20:35, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

Or solution #3 - slowly start to use Czechia for past instead of Czech lands :) It was declined too, so... Chrz (talk) 20:51, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

You all make good points, and I think you're right - Czech Republic doesn't really seem like the right solution for historical use. With that said, Czech lands just sounds wrong and anachronistic and not something we use for other countries. We don't talk about "Swedish lands" to make clear that we're also talking about Finland and Åland but not Scania or Jämtland, because that would be ridiculous. Why not use Czechia as a replacement for Czech Lands in this very limited and specific way? I'll edit the article with this suggestion, as per WP:BRD, and then I'm sure someone will revert and we can continue the discussion. Hentheden (talk) 09:13, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

If Czech lands and Czech Republic are inappropriate then, per WP:MPN, use the word that is used for the area in modern English-language sources discussing the time period. Chrz mocks the idea of kings of the Czech Republic - well then call them kings of Bohemia. That's what our guidelines tell us to do.

And in some cases before 1993 that will mean "Czech Republic".

In several places the text seems to actively try to shoehorn a noun phrase into the text where an adjective would be more natural. Almost as though the people who wrote the article actually wanted us to be continually discussing naming. Why say The musical tradition of the Czech lands when you can say Czech musical tradition? One of these sentences - In the Czech lands mainly expressionist and cubist: Josef Čapek, Emil Filla, Bohumil Kubišta, Jan Zrzavý. - doesn't even have a verb.

I would add that this continual low-level and entirely circular name discussion is the reason why we imposed the moratoriums on this point before. The fact that the same people are starting the same discussion less than two weeks after the last one makes the case for another moratorium now. Kahastok talk 10:02, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

You're entirely right Kahastok, the wording around the phrases Czech Lands is often really really odd. What about my current edit - which does not use the word Czechia anywhere - that fixes some of these issues? Hentheden (talk) 10:13, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

It's an improvement. I'm sure that further improvement is possible - over time the writing should improve. I think the important point is that it is possible to avoid these issues naturally if we want to. Kahastok talk 11:53, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

Czechia is only permanent "consistency" solution. In the meantime, before Czechia recognized on Misplaced Pages, you have to stick with two names. You can't have your cake and eat it too. And yes, if you want to stop using "Czech lands", adjective form is a way. Replacing Czech lands with Czech Republic is anachronistic nonsense. Chrz (talk) 11:24, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

The idea that Czechia is some kind of panacea that will resolve all inconsistencies is very wide of the mark. Even if English-language usage were to switch to Czechia for the modern state, it is far from clear that it would also make sense to use it before the modern state existed. The kings of Bohemia were kings of Bohemia, not of Czechia. Kahastok talk 11:53, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

RfC about the name of this country

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What should this country be referred to as across Misplaced Pages? Should the example of Eswatini be followed, or Vietnam? Hentheden (talk) 10:25, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

• This RfC doesn't make much sense. Eswatini and Vietnam are referred to across Misplaced Pages as Eswatini and Vietnam respectively. Presumably the Czech Republic should be referred to as the Czech Republic. CMD (talk) 11:08, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

I was referring to the processes that led to them being referred to by the at the time not-particularly-used but official, registered-with-the-UN name of Eswatini (rather than Swaziland), and that in the case of Vietnam, the more commonly used English name (but not the official name of the country, which is Viet Nam in the UN) - that the discussion should include the title of the articles along with their use in the articles. Hentheden (talk) 13:09, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

Our naming convention has nothing to do with what the UN says. No name for Eswatini is particularly commonly used (people don't refer to the place very often) but it was judged at RM that Eswatini had crossed the threshold of WP:COMMONNAME in post-rename sources as required by policy, particularly taking account of WP:ENGVAR given that Eswatini is an English-speaking country. If you feel that judgement was incorrect, you are of course welcome to open a new RM at Talk:Eswatini. Kahastok talk 14:35, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

• It would be nice to see some discussion on this talkpage that's not about the name of this country. Perhaps we should consider making a separate page for those discussions, like Talk:Muhammad/images. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:25, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

• It is OK to have this centralized. Otherwise we have similar discussions here, on History of, Music of, Culture of pages etc. Usually the name of the article about the country means name of derived articles, but this is an exception, it just happens when you choose a political name for an article. Exception has to be kept but properly documented. Czech lands in these cases (Bohemia in these cases), adjective form Czech in these cases, Czech Republic in these, globally. Chrz (talk) 11:34, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

• When an essentially identical discussion, started by the same individual, was closed less than two weeks ago, the conclusion was that we should follow our own guidelines and refer to the Czech Republic. In this way, we follow the example of both Eswatini and Vietnam. Nothing has happened in the last few days that would give anyone any reason to assume that this conclusion has changed. Kahastok talk 11:58, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

• In case this wasn't particularly clear, I was trying to refer to both the article title as well as the contents of the articles that use terms such as "Czech Republic" and "Czech lands" in their titles. With this in mind, what has changed is that several disinterested, authoritative reference works (per WP:PLACE - such as the CIA world factbook, the Board on Geographic Names (the country list on the page), Google maps now use "Czechia". This change has been consistently blocked by authors on this page WP:STONEWALLING, and thus I opened an RFC with the hope that other editors than the 5-6 who regularly block any mention of the word "Czechia" (but are perfectly fine with constructions like "Czech lands" most of the time) would contribute to the debate in a more constructive manner than on this page have been acting in. Hentheden (talk) 13:23, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

If you wish to rename this article, then the correct process is through WP:RM. If there is consensus to move the article, then MOS:GEO would continue to apply - but this time favouring the new name rather than the existing name. You cannot reasonably expect that this RFC will be treated as an RM, particularly given that your opening statement that does not propose to move the article. Kahastok talk 14:35, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

Hentheden, I wish you well with your strategy of mischaracterizing the motivations and rationales of people who've disagreed with your preference and your conflation of their opinion on one matter with their opinion on another matter. I'm sure it will be very effective, and justly so. Largoplazo (talk) 16:28, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

• Czech Republic — It is still the name most people call this country. If the title should be a recognisable name, then "Czech Republic" is still the preferable way. LongLivePortugal (talk) 22:41, 27 February 2021 (UTC)
• Leave it as is, as well per LongLivePortugal.(KIENGIR (talk) 03:35, 28 February 2021 (UTC))

• It is quite boring to speak whole the time about my country name. Let's talk for instance about the article "United Kingdom". There are different terms which are used in the article - United Kingdom, Great Britain or just Britain. I don't understand one thing. In the article "United Kingdom" these terms can be mingled. No one is preferred or prohibited. In the article "Czech Republic" we've got two names - the Czech Republic and Czechia which are both grammatically correct nad official. They are both used by a lot of people across the world which is recognized by the fact that they are both mentioned in the article. Despite this using of Czechia is forbidden and sanctioned (as a Czech citizen I feel really disgusted by this oppressive behaviour against my country name). I don't see any reason for this. If using of different names is possible in the case of the United Kingdom why is it not allowed in the case of the Czech Republic? I just demand equal treatment because we deserve it. Don't ignore us and don't insult us. CzechReb (talk) 21:45, 2 March 2021 (UTC) — CzechReb (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

• "It is quite boring to speak time"—so you decided to prolong it for everybody?

That aside, and for what it's worth, if I learned of an RFC in favor of using consistent terminology at United Kingdom, I would support it, with the provisos that (a) pursuant to one of the guidelines, "UK" is proper for attributive (adjectival) use, and (b) Great Britain is the name of the comprising England, Scotland, and Wales and should be used for that purpose, and only for that purpose. I believe that in any article, it's in the interest of the reader not to keep using different names for the same thing because, to the uninformed or underinformed user, it may not be clear that the terms aren't referring to different things (assuming they haven't memorized the lead). Further "Britain" is awfully casual for an encyclopedia article, and, as I pointed out, "Great Britain" in reference to the entire UK is at best ambiguous and at worst inaccurate.

Finally: How is this a matter of equal treatment, unless you think English speakers visit Czech Misplaced Pages and argue about over what Czech names are being used for the United States or the United Kingdom in articles there? Largoplazo (talk) 23:45, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

Czechia is our official name. We have chosen it. You should respect our decision and call us by it. It’s a sign of politeness. But I know the problem is still the same - “striking disrespect”. CzechReb (talk) 10:19, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

You were right: This is boring. It's boring because people keep making arguments and complaints that have been posted here a hundred times before and that have already been answered. The only thing you could write at this point that wouldn't be a boring repetition of what's already transpired here abundantly in the past would be a survey of current reliable sources in English that shows that their have begun predominately using "Czechia", which would point the way to changing the naming for the country on Misplaced Pages. Largoplazo (talk) 11:17, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

I don’t see any reason why I should obey your order. Czechia is the existing name of the country. It’s real. You can’t deny it. I don’t have to prove its existence. I don’t demand the change of the article name. Just let us use this word. CzechReb (talk) 12:41, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

"I don't see any reason why I should do the one thing that will actually achieve my goal." Fine, don't.

"Czechia is the existing name of the country." It's an existing name. "It’s real. You can’t deny it. I don’t have to prove its existence." I never said it wasn't real and that you did have to prove its existence. "I don’t demand the change of the article name. Just let us use this word." See my comments above. Consistency within an article benefits the reader. It's the reason the Manual of Style also calls for consistent use of a particular variety of English throughout an article, consistent use of BC/AD or BCE/CE throughout an article, etc. You can use whichever name you want in any article where it's consistent with every other reference to the country in the same article. Largoplazo (talk) 13:06, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

So, can I do this  ? CzechReb (talk) 14:15, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

For the record, if you ever see "Great Britain" when "United Kingdom" is meant, that should IMO be corrected, as the two terms mean different things. That aside, I agree that use of the word "Czechia" should not be deprecated, it is commonly used enough nowadays for people to recognise it. – filelakeshoe (t / c) 🐱 12:58, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

• Czech Republic It should be left as it is.Sea Ane (talk) 21:24, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

• Misplaced Pages articles that use American English
• All unassessed articles
• C-Class Czech Republic articles
• Top-importance Czech Republic articles
• All WikiProject Czech Republic pages
• WikiProject templates with unknown parameters
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• Misplaced Pages requests for comment