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A fact from this article was featured on Misplaced Pages's Main Page in the On this day section on June 11, 2019.

Overblown introduction

The introduction had been enlarged by a few edits making it a bi unbalanced and emphasising a bit too much aspects that need not be so thoroughly and in detailed discussed. Moved it under right sections. ReinoLeino (talk) 14:55, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

Restored to original condition. Do not make these edits again until you have a consensus to do so on the talk page. Beyond My Ken (talk) 03:21, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Edits solely done by user Beyond My Ken are not in line with WP guidelines - restoring to the previous original, but still saving and ordering user Beyond My Ken added extra material from intro to subsections of the Julius Evola article. If large additions are made there should be consensus and they should follow WP guidelines. This was not unfortunately taken in account in this partly overblown and partisan edits to the introduction. WP:PROMOTION, Misplaced Pages:Cherrypicking, WP:NOTBATTLE. ReinoLeino (talk) 07:22, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

Sorry, but consensus is not required in order to improve articles. Your 71 edits haven't taught you everything there is to know about Misplaced Pages. Beyond My Ken (talk) 11:52, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

On Antisemetic 'conspiracy theorist'

The sources cited for designating the term antisemetic conspiracy theorist, seem to be irrelevant. The first source does not explain the use of the term conspiracy theorist, but only describes an individuals opinion . The second source, is a book, which again explains his anti-semetism but not the 'conspiracy' part.

I recognize, seeing the other talk posts, that the general consensus seems to be that he was, in fact, both an anti-Semite and a conspiracy theorist, but perhaps you could help me understand how he is the latter?

Based47 (talk) 05:29, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

References

1. https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/02/julius-evola-alt-right/517326/#article-section-1:~:text=%E2%80%9CFascist%2Dera%20anti%2DSemitic%20ideologues%20fall%20under%20two,Jewish%20conspiracy%20to%20rule%20the%20world.%E2%80%9D

First source says quoting a semiologist "As an occultist, he was convinced that the world contained some mysterious truths that only the initiated could see, and one of those hidden truths was a Jewish conspiracy to rule the world." That's a anti-Semitic conspiracy theory, and a unique one, so, he's not just a believer in them, he created one, that makes him a theorist. The second source, Goodrick-Clarke's book, discusses Evola's unique metaphysical anti-Semitism on pages 65-67. Again, these are not run-of-the-mill floating-around-Europe theories, they are Evola's specific contribution to anti-Semitism, making him, as cited, an anti-Semitic conspiracy theorist. Beyond My Ken (talk) 05:51, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

User:Beyond My Ken just saw it. cool. 2405:201:19:C009:B035:2A57:2046:C5B5 (talk) 09:39, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

Influeces

Evola's influence and relation to Junger's work must be explored in the article. It's worth mentioning he might have been influenced by Jünger's earlier work, and then he considered Jünger a confused liberal/social-democrat who sold himself to the "system". Sources: - https://www.researchgate.net/publication/333808570_Translation_of_letter_from_Julius_Evola_to_Ernst_Junger_Nov_1953

- http://www.juliusevola.net/excerpts/Junger_-_from_Conservative_Revolutionary_to_Sluggishly_Liberal_%26_Humanistic.html

- L'"operaio" nel pensiero di Ernst Jünger", (translation: The “Worker” in the Thought of Ernst Jünger") Roma : Armando, 1960, reprint. ForceTOyHwk (talk) 08:45, 14 February 2021 (UTC)

It is worth mentioning Evola knew Othmar Spann circle in Austria. He probably attended at least one gathering with Spann and von Salomon. Cited in 'Ernst von Salomon, Der Fragebogen, Hamburg , 1951, 202 - 220' YellBret (talk) 18:06, 11 March 2021 (UTC) Blocked as a sock. Beyond My Ken (talk) 22:32, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

Evola as "antisemitic conspiracy theorist": original research, conflicting sources and quote without reference

In Dreamer of the Day: Francis Parker Yockey & The Postwar Fascist International, an academic, historical book on fascism, the author, Kevin Coogan writes:

Evola believed that Jewish culture had a "corrosive irony" and that Jewish intellectuals were in the vanguard of those who denounced Tradition by reducing human activity to materialist economic (Marx) and sexual (Freud) motives. Conspiracy theories about Jews, however, were demagogic aberrations absurdly inadequate to explain Europe's crisis. The ideological hegemony of rationalism and materialism that began with the Renaissance was the real problem.

— Kevin Coogan

In the first sentence of this article Evola is described as an "antisemitic conspiracy theorist". For this claim there are given two sources:

• An The Atlantic article that cites semiologist Valentina Pisanty who claims Evola was an antisemitic conspiracy theorist, without referencing where the quote attributed to Pisanty comes from.
• A book by Nicholas Goodrick-Clarke that does not mention the term "conspiracy theorist". It does mention that Evola cites an antisemitic conspiracy text favorably. Using this source to prove he is an antisemitic conspiracy theorist amounts to original research: "conspiracy" is never mentioned in the source. The rule on original research states: Articles may not contain any new analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to reach or imply a conclusion not clearly stated by the sources themselves.

This seems like thin evidence, especially if an academic trustworthy source says the opposite. Therefore I removed the description "conspiracy theorist" from the first sentence of this article. Schenkstroop (talk) 21:16, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

References

1. Coogan, Kevin (1999). Dreamer of the Day: Francis Parker Yockey & The Postwar Fascist International. Autonomedia. p. 309. ISBN 978-1570270390.

I have reverted your change to the article. This has been discussed and rejected. Get a consensus on this page before restsoring it. Do no edit against consensus. Beyond My Ken (talk) 22:29, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

You may find MOS:LABEL to be relevant here: "Value-laden labels... may express contentious opinion and are best avoided unless widely used by reliable sources to describe the subject". IMO If someone wanted to they could try and summarise the section on his views on Jews in the lead and/or add to it regarding some of the content quoted above, but it doesn't seem the sourcing is strong enough to add that contentious label in the lead sentence, especially if there's nothing else discussing anti-semitic conspiracy theories in the body of the article. See below Volteer1 (talk) 21:34, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

He insisted that the Protocols of the Elders of Zion was true whether or not the document was a forgery. That's anti-Semitic conspiracy theorism. Anything short of that term is watering down his views to make them more palatable. We don't need to let the MOS get in the way of a plain and obvious fact. We don't need to let WP:NOR be misused to argue that:

• a source saying he believed in "a Jewish conspiracy to rule the world"
• a source pointing out how defended and endorsed the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion

...somehow don't demonstrate that he was an anti-Semitic conspiracy theorist.

It's not contentious to say that he was an anti-Semite, unless one happens to secretly approves of his anti-Semitism (as a few Evola apologists clearly do). It's not contentious to say that the Protocols are an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory; anyone arguing otherwise needs a WP:NONAZIS block. There are already plenty of other sources in the article about his anti-Semitism, there are sources about his endorsement of the Protocols, and the lede is just accurately summarizing all this info in the most succinct and relevant way. Ian.thomson (talk) 00:00, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

There is alot to unpack here:

Your tone against people who disagree with you

First of all, its noteworthy that you describe anyone disagreeing with your exact view as someone who "is watering down views to make them more palatable", as a nazi who "secretly approves" Evola's views. It seems dishonest to label anyone who disagrees with you as a covert nazi. And what about the Kevin Coogan quote? Coogan is an historian and a scholar of fascism. Is he a nazi with a secret agenda too because he thinks Evola didn't believe in anti-semitic conspiracy theories? To be honest with you I am a communist and an anti-fascist. I just don't think "antisemitic conspiracy theorist" should be in the first sentence of the article.

Antisemitism and "antisemitic conspiracy theorist"

Its obvious that Evola was an antisemite. I do not deny that. The quote I provided even proves that point. However this is something else than describing someone as an antisemitic conspiracy theorist in the first sentence of the article. Evola is not mainly known for producing antisemitic conspiracy theories. In fact, there isn't even academic consensus about whether he should be viewed as an antisemitic conspiracy theorist, as the Coogan quote proves.

Consensus

So when was the consensus that restrict users from editing established? Could you reference that? It seems like alot of people in this talk thread are against the designation "antisemitic conspiracy theorist.

It seems like you and one other person, Beyond My Ken, are reverting everyone who disagree with you. Consensus among a limited group of editors, at one place and time, cannot override community consensus on a wider scale. I restored the article. Schenkstroop (talk) 01:15, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Please indent your comments properly. Please do not use section headers within your comments.There is nothing to "unpack". Ian.Thomson's was straight-forward, and did not require analysis. What you are doing is called WP:WIKILAWYERING, and it will get you nowhere. The bottom line is, you need to gather a WP:CONSENSUS of editors on this talk page to restore your edit. Without it, you would be editing against consensus, which is WP:Disruptive and can lead to being blocked from editing. Beyond My Ken (talk) 01:18, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

I have restored the article to the status quo ante. To repeat, you must have a consensus from discussion on this talk page to make the change you wish to make. This is mandatory. The next time you attempt to make this change will result in a warning for edit-warring, and the one following will result in a report requesting that you be blocked for edit warring. Beyond My Ken (talk) 01:24, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Sorry, I think I've misread that Kevin Coogan quote. My initial worry was that it seems there was some nuance here, in that there is some subtlety to what Evola's on about when he mentions "occult wars" when talking about the The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, and that there was some disagreement from relevant subject matter experts about how to interpret his views. Coogan, in that book, seems to be affirming Evola's belief in bona fide anti-semitic conspiracy theories, but just clarifying Evola thought they were comparatively petty truths compared to the real problems that explain Europe's crisis. I think the label is probably fine, but something from Coogan's book should probably be included in the section. As a side note, I don't ever find "you're wikilawyering and we should instead ignore established policy consensus/ignore all rules" to be a particularly convincing argument, it seems there is reason enough to include the label without having to resort to a fully general counterargument. Volteer1 (talk) 07:01, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Another country heard from

So many things wrong with this article. The immediate impression is that it is written by people who have an animus against what they think he stands for. One begins to think that it is very biased and not of much epistemic value. Please do something to improve this otherwise it looks and feels like an attack piece on someone who cannot defend themselves.24.139.24.163 (talk) 03:53, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

There are other articles on Misplaced Pages that seem to some people to be "attack pages", articles such as Adolf Hitler, Heinrich Himmler, Josef Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao Zedong, Idi Amin, Alfred Rosenberg, Julius Streicher, Nicolae Ceaușescu and many others. They may seem like "attack pages" because they are factual, they lay out the ideas and deeds of these people, and it turns out that they are horrendous. That's the case here as well. It's rather chic right now in the world of those in the far-right who consider themselves to be "intellectuals" to hold out Evola as some kind of role model, and that means, unfortunately, that people are going to come by here to complain and to attempt to skew the article to make it more complimentary -- or at least less factually accurate -- so that the Evola in this article will better match up with their biased view of their icon. Fortunately, Misplaced Pages's credo of presenting only the information which is supported by reliable sources prevents that from happening, as long as enough editors are watching the article and reverting biased PoV pro-Evola editing.SO, in short, I wouldn't hold my breath about this article becoming more to your liking in the future, it's most likely going to continue to be a factual recounting of Evola's life, philosophy, and influence among the fascist far-right. Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:17, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

Whitewashing

@DevilInTheRadio: Have you read WP:NONAZIS, as I have advised you? Your edits smack of whitewashing. IMHO, you had enough time to read it before performing your edits. WP:CONSENSUS has been discussed above, please read that section also. Tgeorgescu (talk) 16:38, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

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