| Revision as of 16:04, 28 April 2021 edit41.236.199.39 (talk) →Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 28 April 2021 (2): new sectionTags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit← Previous edit | Revision as of 16:08, 28 April 2021 edit undoPaine Ellsworth (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Page movers, File movers, New page reviewers, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers, Template editors255,886 editsm →Rfc about the result section in the infobox: fmtNext edit → | ||
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| *'''No''' per ] above. ] (]) 22:54, 11 March 2021 (UTC) | *'''No''' per ] above. ] (]) 22:54, 11 March 2021 (UTC) | ||
| *'''Oppose'''. Seems to be OR with little attempt to provide RSs to counter the long-standing consensus reflected in the infobox. ] (]) 22:59, 11 March 2021 (UTC) | *'''Oppose'''. Seems to be OR with little attempt to provide RSs to counter the long-standing consensus reflected in the infobox. ] (]) 22:59, 11 March 2021 (UTC) | ||
| {{ref-talk}} | |||
| {{closed rfc bottom}} | {{closed rfc bottom}} | ||
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Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 10 December 2020
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2603:6011:DE00:E345:4414:3070:5F98:47AF (talk) 15:40, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
result is egypt win isreal and they return sini
Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. – Jonesey95 (talk) 16:15, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
Israel gifted Sinai to Egypt in 1982 (in phases starting in 1979 and the last one was in 1982). It was due to a peace deal signed up between Egypt under Sadat (which later he was assassinated for that) and Israel. Both Syria and Egypt lost the war, but Egypt gained political power. IdanST-EDITOR (talk) 09:41, 22 March 2021 (UTC)
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 20 December 2020
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As a wikipedia contributer, I noticed a lot of uprising on social media about how one-sided this specific article was against Egypt when it comes to 'Result of War'
The article result contradicts the two other wikipedia articles on this war, which are much more nutreal. A lot more accurate version that I have seen is in (https://simple.wikipedia.org/Yom_Kippur_War), (https://ar.wikipedia.org/%D8%AD%D8%B1%D8%A8_%D8%A3%D9%83%D8%AA%D9%88%D8%A8%D8%B1) as well as the Egyptian victory side of the war entirely mentioned in ( https://en.wikipedia.org/Operation_Badr_(1973) ), claiming Yom Kippur War as an Israeli victory is false information since Israel was victorious on the Syrian front but not on the Egyptian front. It was a stalemate in Sinai which led to the agreement between both countries, both Arabs and Israel claimed victory though no military victory can be announced for the entireirty of Yom Kippur/October War.
Misplaced Pages is supposed to be a nutreal encyclopedia, when it comes to war simply, using Israeli sources and books only for declaration of the winner is not okay and has offended loads of people online, please check my sources and consider the following changes:
Under the Infobox, 'Result':
Change "Israeli military victory" to "Egyptian victory on the Egyptian front and Israeli victory on the Syrian front"
Change/Add "1979 Egypt-Israel Peace Treaty"
The article also condradicts itself as I quote from the article "The war began with a massive and successful Egyptian crossing of the Suez Canal. Egyptian forces crossed the cease-fire lines, then advanced virtually unopposed into the Sinai Peninsula. After three days, Israel had mobilized most of its forces and halted the Egyptian offensive, resulting in a military stalemate." It was an Egyptian victory on the Egyptian front, Israeli victory on the Syrian front. Therefore the overall result of the war in the infobox should not be "Israeli victory". Very biased and misleading.
Thank you. Ziad Rashad (talk) 19:14, 20 December 2020 (UTC) Ed6767 Jonesey95
References
- https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2018/10/8/the-october-arab-israeli-war-of-1973-what-happened#:~:text=Both%20the%20Arabs%20and%20Israel,the%20Israeli%20parliament%2C%20the%20Knesset.
- https://www.euronews.com/2013/10/06/a-short-history-of-october-6-1973
- https://english.alarabiya.net/en/features/2013/10/09/The-legacy-of-the-October-war-in-Egypt-and-Israel
- https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/report/1997/Moulton.htm
- https://thearabweekly.com/remembering-october-war-46-years
- https://www.timesofisrael.com/a-look-at-the-landmark-egypt-israel-peace-treaty-sealed-40-years-ago/
Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit extended-protected}}template. Please also find better reliable sources. P,TO 19104 (talk) (contribs) 14:15, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
Okay, sure thing. My point is simple: if it wasn't for the war then Sinai would have remained an Israeli land to this day. Since Egyptians had an upperhand in the war they managed to get a deal and reclaim Sinai after the attacks, Syria on the other hand had lost the war and that's why Golan Heights are still under Israeli occupation to this day. When Egyptian forces crossed to Sinai and got circled by Israelis, Soviet Union threatned to send troops for Egypt's aid and after that the US threatened with nuclear bombs. Therefore, it was simply a stalemate but Egypt had the upperhand in the negotiations since Sinai was already breached. (the attack was only halted by Israel until Russia and USA interfered)
Summary: Egyptians won the peace treaty by crossing Sinai and leaving no option other than a treaty to take the rest of Sinai without more loss of lives. And Syrians have lost the Golan Heights, to this day it is occupied by Israel.
The 'Result' inside the 'infobox' seems to account for Israel's win against Syria only. So once again, please change "Israeli Military victory" to "Egyptian victory on the Egyptian front and Israeli victory on the Syrian front"
I also forgot to mention that it is very biased to use only Israeli and American sources for the article, I could mention 30 Arab or Soviet sources that are reliable in the Arab world and all of them talk about Egypt's victory and stalemate in Sinai. But I won't do that, I'll link American and Israeli sources that say the same thing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ziad Rashad (talk • contribs) 02:16, 24 December 2020 (UTC)
Sources:
BBC documentary https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icaeBubBbDg
https://2001-2009.state.gov/r/pa/ho/time/dr/97192.htm
"No Victor, No Vanquished" Edgar O'Ballance, pg. 161 & 162 https://docs.google.com/viewer?embedded=true&url=http://www.hativa14.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Edgar_Oballance.pdf
"The truth is that the October War, militarily speaking, was a standoff. Even though the Egyptians gained some 300 square miles of Israeli-held Sinai on the east bank of the canal, the Syrians lost almost the same amount of terrain in the north. Politically speaking, the war drastically changed the situation in the Middle East from the almost crystallised one of No Peace, No War, to one of No Victor, No Vanquished."
https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/reports/2006/R1864.pdf
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/u-s-state-department-summary-of-the-yom-kippur-war
Moreover, the first battle of the war (https://en.wikipedia.org/Operation_Badr) was a decisive Egyptian victory.
Last two major battles of the war before United States ceasefire (https://en.wikipedia.org/Battle_of_Ismailia) and (https://en.wikipedia.org/Battle_of_Suez) were also both an Egyptian victory.
Ziad Rashad (talk) 02:01, 24 December 2020 (UTC)
- Not done: @Ziad Rashad:, repeating your argument is not "establishing a consensus". You need to open a separate section here, possibly as a Request for Comments, that will establish (or not) that there is a substantial agreement among interested editors that the proposed changes are necessary and comply with the Core Content Policies. I suggest reading this instruction section and this essay for advice on how to go about creating this discussion. I hope that helps. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 20:55, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
- Oh alright, just created an Rfc. Thank you for making it clear! Ziad Rashad (talk) 17:14, 28 February 2021 (UTC)
Chaim Herzog and Israeli propaganda
Herzog tells us that during the war the Arabs lost 334 aircraft in air-to air combat, i quote from the page "334 of these aircraft were shot down by the Israeli Air Force in air-to-air combat for the loss of only five Israeli planes"
So, in air-to-air combat Israel only lost 5 aircraft, and shot down 334 Arab aircraft... (those were Mig-21s, Mirages VS F4 Phantoms and Mirages, it wasn't F-22 raptor vs Mig21, those were close range engagements)
What i want to say is, is this a joke? How long will it take for us to fix this reference bias in all Arab-Israeli wars, especially the Yom Kippur? It's so disgustingly biased it doesn't even make sense, it's actually hilarious, but these 'historians' or 'authors' (actually the former president of Israel himself and a military general) are cited here and supposed to be credible and unbiased!! It completely ignores things we know took place such as "The Air Battle of Mansoura" and the repeated and expected (failed) attempts by Israel to destroy Egyptian airbases, but of course your credible historians don't mention this (and they probably deny any attempts by Israel to destroy Egyptian airbases) because they get their "accurate, credible historical information" from Israeli sources (like Chaim Herzog), be it Israeli authors, historians, or Israeli military/government. But the Egyptian/Soviet sources are yikes! biased! they exaggerate! which is basically the exaggerated information we are getting from the Israeli sources (and American historians get their info from Israeli sources). The Egyptians unfortunately failed to accomplish what Israel did by reaching out to the world and sharing their POV of events.
But yeah, let's spread the Israeli propaganda on Misplaced Pages, they are god-like pilots and god-like warriors.Wasteland1 (talk) 05:01, 6 February 2021 (UTC)
- I agree that we shouldn't rely on first-party sources like Herzog. However, the way forward is to bring high quality independent sources. Do you have some in mind? Zero 05:07, 6 February 2021 (UTC)
- Unfortunately It's not possible to provide independent sources, because the sources have to either get the information from Egyptian or Israeli sources, Israel succeeded and worked on sharing their POV with the world (with the help of the US), and it's the POV we see here on Wiki from Israeli and American historians/authors/government and others, Egypt failed the history war. What i find to be possible is sharing both POVs (or claims) of the events (everything) with or without excluding bits of information that seem exaggerated or don't make sense according to the capabilities at the time (such as Herzog's claims, that's disgusting). American sources for example accept the Israeli exaggerations as 'facts' or 'possible', but they denounce the Egyptian/Soviet claims calling it propaganda or flat out call them liars. Both should be looked at as liars equally (the US knows Israel best, take the USS Liberty incident for example, but they still covered it up to not embarrass Israel even when it directly affected them) What I'm trying to say is, of course we know and expect the US bias towards Israel, and towards their military equipment, etc...This is just too complicated tbh.Wasteland1 (talk) 05:48, 6 February 2021 (UTC)
Rfc about the result section in the infobox
- The following discussion is an archived record of a request for comment. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
In the infobox 'result', shouldn't it be called a stalemate on the Egyptian front and Syrian loss on the Syrian front? As per the article itself mentions. Ziad Rashad (talk) 17:12, 28 February 2021 (UTC)
-It looks fine as it is. Eccekevin (talk) 01:45, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
- Comment: "As per the article itself mentions." Policy states that Misplaced Pages is not a reliable source. What RSs are you offering to support the suggested changes? Without them this RfC is dead on arrival. Gog the Mild (talk) 18:27, 6 March 2021 (UTC)
- Support Clearly the Egyptian front was a stalemate with both countries controlling new territory in both sides and it should include a stalemate in the info box Ridax2020 (talk) 10:28, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
- Here’s a source that proves it: Ridax2020 (talk) 10:30, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
- Quoting Al Jazeera which been criticized and involved in a number of controversies and has been accused of antisemitism and anti-Israel sentiment doesn't "prove" anything!. Why don't you quote the History Channel which writes that "Egypt had again suffered military defeat at the hands of its Jewish neighbor"--Steamboat2020 (talk) 18:19, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
- Here’s a source that proves it: Ridax2020 (talk) 10:30, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
- NO: Overall it was a major Israeli victory over the Egyptians. To call it a "stalemate" is trying to rewrite history.:--Steamboat2020 (talk) 18:19, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
- No: No RS provided, seems like an attempt to insert POV or even FRINGE. GordonGlottal (talk) 07:36, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
- No per GordonGlottal above. Idealigic (talk) 22:54, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
- Oppose. Seems to be OR with little attempt to provide RSs to counter the long-standing consensus reflected in the infobox. Gog the Mild (talk) 22:59, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
References
- "The October Arab-Israeli War of 1973: What happened?". www.aljazeera.com. Retrieved 2021-03-06.
The casaulties needs adjustment
Instead of saying that "1,063 Israeli tanks were destroyed, damaged or captured", you should state "400 tanks destroyed, 63 tanks captured", because almost all tanks that were damaged in fact returned to active service within a week. IdanST-EDITOR (talk) 13:19, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
- Actually the number is much higher than 1,063, you should replace "returned to service" with "replaced with new tanks from US inventory" Wasteland1 (talk) 08:49, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
- Or both of you should put up sources for your claims if you want the article to actually be changed to reflect said claims. Right now, this is just two armchair historians talking at each other, and no reason for us to think either of you is correct and not just pushing your own ideological viewpoints. --OuroborosCobra (talk) 15:36, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
- I'm not pushing anything, everyone with a little bit of knowledge about this matter knows about Nickel Grass and the US replacing Israeli losses with equipment directly from their own inventory. Wasteland1 (talk) 23:50, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
- The standard of Misplaced Pages editing isn't "everybody knows this," you must provide reliable sources for any claim. Besides which, your claim isn't that the US replaced Israeli losses with equipment from the US inventory, but that tanks claimed to be damaged, but not destroyed, and claimed to be returned to service in fact weren't returned to service, but were in fact destroyed and replaced with entirely different vehicles. --OuroborosCobra (talk) 21:51, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
- I'm not pushing anything, everyone with a little bit of knowledge about this matter knows about Nickel Grass and the US replacing Israeli losses with equipment directly from their own inventory. Wasteland1 (talk) 23:50, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
In yom kippur war the result was egyptian millitary victory not the israeli😊
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154.239.129.168 (talk) 21:42, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
- Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ಮಲ್ನಾಡಾಚ್ ಕೊಂಕ್ಣೊ (talk) 02:34, 11 April 2021 (UTC)
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 17 April 2021
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Egypt started the war and won the war and gained what she wanted and then she took all her land 196.132.9.251 (talk) 08:40, 17 April 2021 (UTC)
- Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the
{{edit extended-protected}}template. Look at the above discussions. Caius G. (talk) 11:05, 17 April 2021 (UTC)
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 28 April 2021
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The outcome the war inconclusive on the face of egypt , The kilo 101 negotiations are over, The War is disengaged 41.236.199.39 (talk) 15:19, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
- Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 15:28, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 28 April 2021 (2)
 | It is requested that an edit be made to the extended-confirmed-protected article at Yom Kippur War. (edit · history · last · links · protection log)
This template must be followed by a complete and specific description of the request, that is, specify what text should be removed and a verbatim copy of the text that should replace it. "Please change X" is not acceptable and will be rejected; the request must be of the form "please change X to Y".
The edit may be made by any extended confirmed user. Remember to change the |
References 1- https://mfa.gov.il/mfa/history/modern+history/israel+wars/the+yom+kippur+war+-+october+1973.htm
2-octobr war Saad ElDin elshazly Page (282)
3-youm kippur war moshe dayan page (366)
4-https://english.alarabiya.net/features/2013/10/09/The-legacy-of-the-October-war-in-Egypt-and-Israel 41.236.199.39 (talk) 16:04, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
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