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Revision as of 18:02, 20 November 2021 editBookku (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users17,913 edits →Umm Qirfa: Punctuation in own comment← Previous edit Revision as of 21:01, 20 November 2021 edit undoVice regent (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users21,268 edits →Umm QirfaNext edit →
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*<small class="delsort-notice">Note: This discussion has been included in the ]. —] (]) 08:50, 20 November 2021 (UTC)</small> *<small class="delsort-notice">Note: This discussion has been included in the ]. —] (]) 08:50, 20 November 2021 (UTC)</small>
* '''Keep or Merge''': Well, this story is surely notable, however poorly the article may currently be sourced. returns multiple scholarly discussions on the subject. I have no opinion on whether this should be covered as a separate article or merged with something else on the history and myths around the origins of Islam, but the topic is clearly of encyclopedic interest. ] (]) 12:03, 20 November 2021 (UTC) * '''Keep or Merge''': Well, this story is surely notable, however poorly the article may currently be sourced. returns multiple scholarly discussions on the subject. I have no opinion on whether this should be covered as a separate article or merged with something else on the history and myths around the origins of Islam, but the topic is clearly of encyclopedic interest. ] (]) 12:03, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
*:Of the google scholar results, only the first one appears to give depth of coverage required for GNG, the other ones appear to mention the subject only in passing.''']''' <sub>]</sub> 21:01, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
* '''Selectively merge''' the secondary-sourced bits to ]. The only in-depth coverage I found that wasn't just repetition from ancient historiography was {{doi|10.2143/JA.282.1.2006115}}, which is a good source; and , which is middling. The nom is correct: most of this is ] based on ancient historiography in translation—hardly a recipe for success. ] (]) (]) 13:25, 20 November 2021 (UTC) * '''Selectively merge''' the secondary-sourced bits to ]. The only in-depth coverage I found that wasn't just repetition from ancient historiography was {{doi|10.2143/JA.282.1.2006115}}, which is a good source; and , which is middling. The nom is correct: most of this is ] based on ancient historiography in translation—hardly a recipe for success. ] (]) (]) 13:25, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
*:I just saw the second source you mentioned. Thanks for giving the archive link because google books doesn't have a preview of it. But yes, this source seems to only contain 4 sentences on the subject and '''merge''' to ] seems like a good idea.''']''' <sub>]</sub> 13:28, 20 November 2021 (UTC) *:I just saw the second source you mentioned. Thanks for giving the archive link because google books doesn't have a preview of it. But yes, this source seems to only contain 4 sentences on the subject and '''merge''' to ] seems like a good idea.''']''' <sub>]</sub> 13:28, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

Revision as of 21:01, 20 November 2021

Umm Qirfa

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Umm Qirfa (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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Fails the WP:GNG. Most of the sources used in this article are WP:PRIMARY sources. Even the sources published by Oxford University Press and Routledge are translations of medieval Islamic texts. Philips doesn't look reliable. Mubarakpuri only gives the subject a passing mention. I asked for reliable secondary sources in September. VR talk 04:01, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

  • Comment:
a) As of now my opinion is Keep or redirect plus merge in any case article content be accessible in future as and when some one comes with further set of sources.
b) Just a couple of weeks before nominee of this deletion proposal themselves suggested merger at the article talk page with statement "..This article also looks like WP:1E, meaning she is notable for her role in Expedition of Zayd ibn Harithah (Wadi al-Qura). If so, this article should be merged into that one.."
C) Many times close friends followers even prominent enemies of notable subject gain notability simply being close or prominent. Umm Qirfa gets notability just not being enemy of so and so but just being a female warrior of medieval times. Her being a warrior is no where contested, only the way she died has more than one version and one version largely being contested since modern times being not suitable to be narrative of modern times.
d) I do not want to insist on this question but simple question of logic, a secondary source written in 21 century will cease to be secondary in 32'nd century by lapse of time and it's translation in then popular language? Similarly I do not get how a scholar ( Al-Tabari ) who wrote exegesis becomes primary just because he wrote in non–English language Arabic and wrote twelve centuries back. Secondary then is secondary today and translation of secondary then is secondary today.
I do have 2 more points but to keep concise as of now I leave it here. Pl. avoid pinging since this much participation from my side is more than enough as of now. Thanks.
Bookku, 'Encyclopedias = expanding information & knowledge' (talk) 17:57, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
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