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Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Mongols Top‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Mongols, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Mongol culture, history, language, and related articles on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.MongolsWikipedia:WikiProject MongolsTemplate:WikiProject MongolsMongols Top This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Central Asia Top‑importance Xiongnu is part of WikiProject Central Asia, a project to improve all Central Asia-related articles. This includes but is not limited to Afghanistan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Mongolia, Tajikistan, Tibet, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Xinjiang and Central Asian portions of Iran, Pakistan and Russia, region-specific topics, and anything else related to Central Asia. If you would like to help improve this and other Central Asia-related articles, please join the project. All interested editors are welcome.Central AsiaWikipedia:WikiProject Central AsiaTemplate:WikiProject Central AsiaCentral Asia Top This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. China: History Mid‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject China, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of China related articles on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ChinaWikipedia:WikiProject ChinaTemplate:WikiProject ChinaChina-related Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale. This article is supported by WikiProject Chinese history (assessed as Mid-importance). Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Ethnic groups Mid‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ethnic groups, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles relating to ethnic groups, nationalities, and other cultural identities on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Ethnic groupsWikipedia:WikiProject Ethnic groupsTemplate:WikiProject Ethnic groupsEthnic groups Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale. WikiProject Ethnic groups open tasks: Here are some open WikiProject Ethnic groups tasks: Meta-tasks: Place the {{Ethnic groups}} template on the talk page of articles within the scope of this project. Resolve the disparity in importance rankings among different ethnic groups Articles about ethnic groups that currently have issues needing resolution: Category:Unassessed Ethnic groups articles Category:Ethnic groups articles needing merge action Category:Ethnic groups articles needing infoboxes Category:Ethnic groups articles needing reassessment Category:Ethnic groups articles needing attention Iyer Peruvian people Start an article: Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Ethnic groups/Article requests Feel free to edit this list or discuss these tasks. Former countries (inactive) This article is within the scope of WikiProject Former countries, a project which is currently considered to be inactive.Former countriesWikipedia:WikiProject Former countriesTemplate:WikiProject Former countriesFormer countries East Asia (defunct) This article is within the scope of WikiProject East Asia, a project which is currently considered to be defunct.East AsiaWikipedia:WikiProject East AsiaTemplate:WikiProject East AsiaEast Asia Military history: Asian / Chinese / Classical This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status: Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met Associated task forces: /  Asian military history task force Chinese military history task force Classical warfare task force (c. 700 BC – c. 500 AD)

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History of İran

user history of iran withdraws my editing even though I have shown my references that are trusted by WP.and not writing the reason why he got it back

Same, user HistoryofIran keeps deleting other edits. Obvious vandalism and edit warring. He deleted the research of Cambridge University without giving any reason at all. Hsynylmztr (talk) 12:23, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

The section in this article under archeological origin has a repeated paragraph.

The section in this article under archeological origin has a repeated paragraph. 173.9.106.241 (talk) 07:44, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

Beckwith reference (Yeniseian connection)

I've edited the Beckwith reference: it originally cited pages 51-52 and 404-405, when its actually referring to end notes 51-52 on pages 404-405. (I'm not sure if I've used the correct formatting though, so that may need correcting). More importantly though, I'm not sure that this is the best source for the claim being made. The book doesn't actually make any arguments for or against a Yenesian connection, just stating that such a connection has been claimed and citing sources: "The case has been made for the Hsiung-nu having been Iranians (Bailey 1985: 25 et seq.), Kets (Pulleyblank 2000; Vovin 2000), or others". Surely it would be better to cite those sources, rather than Beckwith's reporting of them? (I'd update the reference myself, but I don't have the sources to check what they actually say. Iapetus (talk) 13:56, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

In fact I've just noticed that one of Beckwith's citations (Vovin 2000) is already used as a reference for the same statement, and other works by Pulleyblank are used as sources later on, so the Beckwith reference is probably redundant (at least for supporting the Yeniseian/Ket connection). Iapetus (talk) 14:04, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages actually prefers secondary sources over primary sources (or at least in addition to primary sources), as they show that a hypothesis appearing in a primary source has been deemed noteworthy enough to merit mention by independent scholars, as opposed to being a failed trial balloon that is subsequently ignored by the rest of the field. It keeps Misplaced Pages more grounded in general scholarly consensus and less 'bleeding edge'. Agricolae (talk) 16:36, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

Korean connection

I believe this paper http://contents.nahf.or.kr/directory/downloadItemFile.do?fileName=jn_009_0010.pdf&levelId=jn_009_0010 may help to explain or suggest a possible connection that Koreans were allies or part of them were members of the Xiongnu Confederation 138.36.44.72 (talk) 23:52, 3 May 2022 (UTC)

To Interpret or to Mis-Interpret

Four sources are listed to support the thesis that

• Hucker, Charles O. (1975). China's Imperial Past: An Introduction to Chinese History and Culture. Stanford University Press. ISBN 0-8047-2353-2. page 136
• Pritsak, O. (1959). "XUN Der Volksname der Hsiung-nu". Central Asiatic Journal (in German). 5: 27–34.
• Henning, W. B. (1948). "The date of the Sogdian ancient letters". Bulletin of the School of Oriental and African Studies (BSOAS). 12 (3–4): 601–615. doi:10.1017/S0041977X00083178. JSTOR 608717. S2CID 161867825.
• Sims-Williams, Nicholas (2004). "The Sogdian ancient letters. Letters 1, 2, 3, and 5 translated into English".

Let's evaluate:

• On p. 36 of Hucker (1975), it is written "The proto-Turkic Hisung-nu were now challenged by other aliens groups". So Hucker (1975) is correctly interpreted as supports the thesis that the Xiongnu were proto-Turkic speakers
• Sims-Williams (2004) translated Sogdian Letters 1, 2, 3, and 5. Letter 2 mentioned the Huns (i.e. Xiongnu) yet letter 2 did not say that the Xiongnu spoke a Turkic language at all. Whoever added Sims-Williams (2004) misinterpreted the source for pan-Turkist POV-pushing.
• Nowhere in Henning (1948) are the Xiongnu / Xwn asserted to be as Turkic speakers. The word Turkestan is found in page 602, footnote 1 "Cf. Bartold, Turkestan, p. 161", a source which Henning uses to support this assertion "No doubt the agents of the 'merchant-princes" of Sogdia' ". Again, whoever added Henning (1948) misinterpreted the source for pan-Turkist POV-pushing.
• Pristak (1959): :
  • in n. 24 on p. 32, mentions Ottoman-Turkish term for the Zaporizhian-Cossacks;

    • Es ist deswegen möglich, daß man -yü als einen chin. Spottnamen für ihre nomadischen Nachbarn, etwa 'Brei(esser)' nach der Hauptnahrung derselben zu deuten hat. Vgl. hierzu die osmanisch-türkische Bezeichnung für die ukrainischen Zaporoger-Kosaken Potqalï ,,Grützenbreiesserʽʽ (s. darüber Pritsak. Oriens , Bd. 6:2. 1953. 204). Verl. hierzu noch Anm. 25"

  • Rough translation:

    • It is therefore possible that one has to interpret -yü as a Chinese derisive nickname for their nomadic neighbours, as 'porridge(-eater)' after their staple food itself. Cf. the Ottoman-Turkish designation for the Zaporizhian-Cossacks Potqalï ,,Groat-porridge eaterʽʽ (see above). (See on this Pritsak. Oriens, Vol. 6:2. 1953. 204). See also Note 25"

      Yet this is irrelevant to whether the Xiongnu spoke Turkic.
  • In n p. 29 Pritsak wrote:

    • 5. Die in den ersten chin. Reichsannalen „kanonisierte" Bezeichnung für die (asiatischen) Hunnen 匈奴 Hsiung-nu ist nicht alt. Sie ist erst ab etwa 230 v. Chr. belegt. Sie gehört zu den Bezeichnungen der zweiten Gruppe. Das zweite Zeichen 奴 -nu pflegte schon Otto Franke entsprechend seiner chin. Bedeutung als ,,Sklaven, Knechteʽʽ zu übersetzen.

  • rough translation:

    • The designations "canonized" in the first Chinese imperial annals for the (Asiatic) Huns 匈奴 Hsiung-nu is not old. It is only from about 230 BCE. It belongs to the designations of the second group. Otto Franke used to translate the second character 奴 -nu according to its Chinese meaning as "slaves, servants".

  • For note 10 Pritsak cited:

    • Beiträge aus chinesischen Quellen zur Kenntnis der Türkvölker und Skythen Zentralasiens (Berlin 1904), 5; Geschichte des chinesischen Reiches, Bd. 1 (Berlin-Leipzig 1930), 134

  • Rough translation:

    • Contributions from Chinese sources on the knowledge of the Turkic peoples and Scythians of Central Asia (Berlin 1904), 5; History of the Chinese Empire, Vol. 1 (Berlin-Leipzig 1930), 134

  • Yet Pritsak did not explicitly mention the the Xiongu were Turkic speakers.
  • So again, whoever added Pritsak (1959) misinterpreted the source for pan-Turkist POV-pushing.

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