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Revision as of 19:10, 10 August 2022

Extended confirmed

• WP:PERM/EC
• WP:RFP/EC

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User:לילך5

• לילך5 (t · th · c · del · cross-wiki · SUL · edit counter · pages created (xtools · sigma) · non-automated edits · BLP edits · undos · manual reverts · rollbacks · logs · rfar · spi · cci) (assign permissions)

I started Operation Breaking Dawn and it got protected for some reason and now I can't edit it. I think I have proven my mettle on the English Misplaced Pages and have show that I am here to contribute constructively. I have also edited some on the Hebrew Misplaced Pages. Please grant me this right so I can continue editing the article I started. ---Lilach5 (לילך5) discuss 19:57, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

{{Done}}. For some reason. בברכה, El_C 20:36, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

Thank you. תודה.-----Lilach5 (לילך5) discuss 20:41, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

For sure. You're close enough already; no problem expediting. El_C 20:44, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

@El C So, am I missing something that just set up a trap? While adding that access overcame the technical hurdle for editing that page, the page still has an ARBCOM control on it that prohibits editors without 500 edits from editing it - so any editor can now drag this editor for violating that, and get them individually sanctioned for violating the remedy under Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Index/Palestine-Israel_articles#500/30. — xaosflux 21:37, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

I doubt that'll happen. I suppose we can call it a discretionary thingy. But if someone does file anything against her in that regard, I'll take the WP:BURO heat for it. But, if there are actual problems concerning her editing in this area, the PERM can be revoked for the, what, 10 days remaining or whatever. Again, seems unlikely, though (though, I probably just jinxed it). Cheers! El_C 21:54, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

@El C I won't go complain, mostly because I think that remedy is one of the worst things that have come out of arbcom in a long time. Regarding the "10 days" you mentioned, unless I'm counting wrong it looks like this requester is at 67/90 days (74%) and 416/500 edits (83%) towards getting to the threshold that arbcom has mandated is necessary for any editor to contribute to articles on that subject. In recent practice, it seems fairly loose that everyone can just ignore that sanction when they are productive, but if anyone wants to complain about it - it could be enforced. The WP:PERM part of discretionary early grants of ECP isn't what would be at issue - it would be the ARBPIA violation that would be. Basically: Discretionary ECP grant = no big deal; actually telling a editor that they are free to violate ARBPIA because you said so = could be a big deal to someone who cares about ARBPIA. — xaosflux 22:24, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

@Xaosflux maybe I'm missing something, but where are you getting the 90 days from? I thought 500/30 stood for 500 edits/30 days? stwalkerster (talk) 22:27, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

@Stwalkerster you are 100% right, this is 500edits/30days - they have met their "days" already, they are just short their edits - which could take an indeterminate amount of time; was dealing with something else and mixed those up. — xaosflux 22:33, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

Yeah, I can't count either, it seems. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ But, even though WP:ARBPOL is probably the most bureaucratic ruleset on the project, I'm trying to be a problem solver rather than a bureaucrat (Misplaced Pages:Requests for bureaucratship/Xaosflux, I've heard of it!). In this instance we have a user who created a current events ARBPIA article, Operation Breaking Dawn, which she edited constructively and without issues until today, when I ECP'd it (RfPP diff).

BTW, I hardly ever frequent WP:PERM. The only reason I was even here was to provide the WP:PERM/EC shortcut to BerkBerk68 (see request directly below) on my talk page (link). Then I saw this request and was, like, hey, I'm the for-some-reason who ECP'd that page a few hours ago! Anyway, so hopefully, no one else will notice (shhh). BTW, Stwalkerster, speaking of giving Xaosflux a hard time, have you seen Special:UserRights/Xaosflux? Holy shit! And wtf is eponline, anyway? Is it a plane, is it a train? A bus? Mystery! El_C 23:38, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

All of the "ep-" things were from when we had the Education Program extension loaded here, it was shutdown in 2018 (outreach:Education/News/January 2018/Education Extension scheduled shutdown), and replaced with tools outside of Misplaced Pages. — xaosflux 23:42, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

Oh. Well, that's kind of a let down. I was hoping for something shiny and fast, but I guess education is also pretty cool. El_C 23:44, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

Normally if I WP:IAR someone ECP access early, I warn them to stay away from all those arbcom articles so they don't get in trouble with people that are super picky in those areas - personally I try to avoid all those topics unless I'm making a purely technical edit. — xaosflux 23:47, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

That's fair, but when it comes to WP:ACDS, I'm rather in the thicc of it. So I can probably manage a once-in-a-blue-moon exception (hopefully!). El_C 00:19, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

The article created by this editor was initially a POV nightmare presented as a completely one sided account and still has a non NPOV title, RM in process to remedy. I only found about this just now when reverting for Arbpia after filing awareness and I was advised by the editor that this permission had been granted. Selfstudier (talk) 07:25, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

We've established that she's been here for 2 months but is only at 420 of 500 edits. While I don't understand what reverting for Arbpia after filing awareness is supposed to mean, as far as I can tell there's a civil discussion over the content dispute, which she is not edit warring over. But if you insist, I'll revoke the perm. Let me know if that's what you want. El_C 10:24, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

Although I agree that the editor is not edit warring as such, the editor is in a minority of one at the RM re the article title. Normally, non ecp editors are not permitted to comment in internal project discussions and I had previously struck the comment which has now been unstruck following the grant of ecp privileges. It seems to me unreasonable that a non ecp editor can create an IP area article with a POV title and then support their own title in an RM designed to remedy that. I suppose that the editor may shortly reach 500 edits but I would ask that you request the editor to strike or remove their RM commentary and if they are unwilling to do so, then to revoke the perm. Selfstudier (talk) 10:35, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

I have done those things. El_C 10:46, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

User:לילך5 please note, this may not automatically re-grant when you exceed 500 edits due to the early actions, this is purely a technical matter. You can check your edit count and groups here: Special:Preferences. Once you exceed 500 edits, if it doesn't hit please just drop a new note here and any admin will process the add for you. — xaosflux 10:54, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

I was under the impression that since the amendment to Palestine-Israel articles 4 did not mention the the 500/30 requirement, any extended-confirmed editor (regardless of whether they actually fulfilled the threshold) would be free to edit in that area. Maybe this is a case for ARCA? Sdrqaz (talk) 15:02, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

@Sdrqaz maybe, who knows. Arbcom made a huge mess when they invented that, and if it has been changed they have done a poor job maintaining their documentation such as that at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Index/Palestine-Israel_articles#500/30. And I don't think they ever touched on how to deal with rouge admins that just make someone EC out of process just to override these rules. — xaosflux 16:29, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

Bouncing this to ARCA, Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification_and_Amendment#Clarification_request:_Palestine-Israel_articles_4. — xaosflux 16:44, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

Sorry I ruffled some feathers here by jumping the queue, I thought this was something to be request. I will re-request when I reach 500 edits if it doesn't grant itself. I am currently at 490 edits (or 432 if just the English Misplaced Pages), so it should be soon.---Lilach5 (לילך5) discuss 07:32, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

 Automated comment This user has had this permission revoked in the past 180 days (). — MusikBot 15:10, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

@Xaosflux, Sdrqaz, and El C: I just noticed I am over 500 now. I have 582 total edits, or 524 edits if en.wikipedia.org is the one I am supposed to count. The EC flag didn't pop back on by itself. Could you place it back on my account? Thank you! ---Lilach5 (לילך5) discuss 21:58, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

 Done here. Sorry for the hassle (it is only the English Misplaced Pages edits, for future reference, but in this case it doesn't matter). Sdrqaz (talk) 23:13, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

Three days later, Selfstudier. El_C 11:20, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

The principal problem is not so much the early granting of perms but that a non ecp editor created an AI article and set an obviously POV title for it, still waiting for the RM designed to fix that to be closed. As a sequence of events, I think that's a pretty poor show and an invitation to all the dratted socks out there to repeat the exercise. Perhaps we should be able to auto undo AI articles created by non ecp editors? Selfstudier (talk) 11:53, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

Well, good luck with that. El_C 12:29, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

User:BerkBerk68

• BerkBerk68 (t · th · c · del · cross-wiki · SUL · edit counter · pages created (xtools · sigma) · non-automated edits · BLP edits · undos · manual reverts · rollbacks · logs · rfar · spi · cci) (assign permissions)

Hello, I lost my extended confirmed rights around more than a year ago because I gamed the system (WP:GAME) and the administrator that took my rights told me that I have to attain 500 edits again, according to my stats I have passed 500 edits on the last 365 days. I am aware of my mistakes and I request for the permission for my further development to the encyclopedia. Regards, BerkBerk 21:10, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

Additionally, revoke happened on 2 July 2021, therefore 500+ edits in past 365 days are done after the role change.

Regards, BerkBerk 21:28, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

FYI: Misplaced Pages:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#BerkBerk68. I suggest that this can wait until that report is closed. Black Kite (talk) 22:26, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

There are no significant/notable changes on the case since around a week, also no Administrator interventions. I believe the case is irrelevant to the request.

Regards, BerkBerk 22:37, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

(Non-administrator comment) You can’t just say whether a case is relevant when you’re not an admin, and just because admins haven’t done anything, doesn’t mean that they won’t. Zippybonzo | Talk (he|him) 08:14, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

to prevent confusions: Let me say that I just expressed my thoughts, not in a definite language. I also didn't mean that Administrators "won't do anything", I was just emphasizing that the case is not active. Regards, BerkBerk 10:41, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

 On hold I'm generally very receptive to restoring this for editors once it has been "re-earned" following a GAMING removal. A closure request as been put on the ANI discussion - assuming it doesn't find anything related to this, restoration should be in order. Ping to prior revoker for awareness: @El C:. — xaosflux 10:50, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

Again, Xaosflux, it's the only reason I'm here (link again). El_C 10:55, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

@El C thanks - we keep running in to each other here! Assuming there is nothing extraordinary on that ANI, this should be able to be done soon. — xaosflux 16:47, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

Thank you @Xaosflux, do I have to do anything else? Also, would procedure take a long time? BerkBerk 20:53, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

Please stand by, I expect this will be resolved within a week. — xaosflux 21:32, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

Okay, thanks. BerkBerk 21:38, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

BerkBerk68, can you please give my talk page a break? I don't want to discuss this perm revocation, which I no longer recall; I don't want to discuss the current ANI complaint featuring yourself, which I have not read; and I don't want to discuss today's unblock request from a self-described "Turkish nationalist," how it might relate to Armenian genocide denial / whitewashing, and so on. Thank you. El_C 18:17, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

Ofcourse, I didn't know I was bothering you. It would be better if you expressed it already so I'd act according to that.

to prevent confusions: check and . Regards, BerkBerk 18:24, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

I'm bothered by tacit defense of extremism and will not entertain these on my talk page. Your other comments there —like asking me why is my case on ANI not being interested by Administrators?— are not a big deal and I would not have commented about these further otherwise. El_C 18:41, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

Please, I am not being extremist or something. I just thought every opinion can be expressed in Misplaced Pages with the condition of doing it in a non-disruptive manner even if its extremely unpopular (I didn't even express anything, I just mentioned what I think, the subject is not even related to me). But I see that I am unwanted by the owner of the talk page, and since you have told me that, I am not going to write anything on your talk page from now unless its necessary. BerkBerk 19:10, 10 August 2022 (UTC)