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Revision as of 14:52, 1 March 2005

I merged in a couple things that were mentioned on a duplicate article called "Guantanamo Base" but not mentioned here. If we want to make a separate article on the base alone, it should rather be called "Guantanamo Bay Naval Station" or "Naval Base Guantanamo Bay". But, I don't think that is necessary. --Mrwojo 05:03 Jan 17, 2003 (UTC)

Maybe not two articles, bur there should be made a distinction between the bay (Spanish name, for sailing, Cuban rule, location A) and the base (English name, for walking, US rule, location B). -DePiep 14:40, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC), suppressing puns.

Besides this: The city is spelled Guantánamo, and so is the bay. This is OK in Spanish. But the naval base has an US (English) name, which should be withoud accent: Guantanamo Bay. Both texts are correct on the map. I suggest the title (!) takes this change. Now its mixed. -DePiep 14:48, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)

"The base became a strategic strongpoint in the American fight against Communism during the decades following World War II"

Really? How come? I can't find any activities developed here to fight comunism, for example, the Infamous "school of the americas" to train latin america soldiers in counterinsurgence, and torture was in Panama (a host of latin america dictators was trained there) but in Guantamamo.....Nothing ! Cuye 09:49, 4 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Why no reference to the "Grenada 17"?

'Cuz we don't know about that? (I don't, anyway :-) ). Feel free to elucidate in the article! Stan 14:43, 1 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Thank you, Stan, for your generosity of spirit. I am not prone to clear and concise commentary myself. The Taliban and Al Qaeda suspects are not the first to enjoy the hospitalities offered in prison at Guantanamo Bay. Maybe you could find something in this: http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR32002203?open&of=ENG-GRD . Ted

Exclave comparison

Compare with other foreign establishments: Subic Bay, Gibraltar, Hong Kong, Macao

I don't quite understand this - why are Gibraltar, Hong Kong and Macao anything like Guatmo? Pete/Pcb21 (talk) 10:49, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)

There's a vague analogy with foreign territories carved out around bays, but either it needs to explain that, or go away. I'd vote for removal, the analogy is greatly stretched and kind of pointless anyway. Stan 14:55, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I vote to keep the analogy; it links a number of different territories, keeping out of his home country control, usually with a treaty obtained by the use of force or with the attempted use of force Milton 13:38, 12 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Keep the comparison. It covers temporary and permanent leased areas. Occupied/ceded areas. Leases not renewed and the orderly end of a lease and adjacent occupied/ceded areas. A microcosm of this particular form of colonialism/foreign control. garryq 23:23, 13 Apr 2004 (UTC)

NPOV

Wait a minute....is this really NPOV? "The U.S. control of this Cuban territory has never been popular." Popular with whom? This should be specified that the Cuban government disapproves of the base, and why. It seems to me that a blanket statement of unpopularity isn't appropriate.

I support, it is necesary to specify with whom, I suggest "The U.S. control of this Cuban territory has never been popular with cubans." Milton 13:38, 12 Mar 2004 (UTC)

...the U.S. will pay 2000 gold coins (about $4000 in today's money)... Something doesn't seem right. I would like to know where I can get a $2 gold coin.

Two key points - that's "today's money", with much inflation, and the unit of money is likely not dollars. It would be good to find out which monetary system was intended, presumably whatever Cuba was using. Stan 14:56, 22 Apr 2004 (UTC)

After 106 years of hostile occupation (since 1898), maybe the United States would consider leaving the base and returning the territory to the Cuban people. Since 1959 Cuba has made it clear that it wants the United States to leave, bearing in mind that the lease agreement was imposed by force on Cuba in 1902 -- either Cuba accepted the platt amendment giving the United States the right of intervention in Cuban internal affairs, and the right to establish military bases on Cuban territory, or the US forces would continue occupying the island. According to applicable international law today, the treaty is invalid as contrary to jus cogens, self-determination, and the doctrine of "unequal treaties". Of course, international law is not identical with its enforcement. And the fact that the US occupation of Guantanamo is illegal does not change the realities of power. The norms are clear. We have a situation of a complex of violations of international law -- with complete impunity, since no-one can force the United States to observe international law. This does not mean that international law does not exist. It only means that there is no enforcement mechanism and that the United States can and does get away with violating international law with impunity. Another reason for invalidity of the lease agreement the use of the base for decades now for purposes not in accordance with the lease -- which allowed for the use of Guantanamo bay as "naval and coaling facilities, and for no other purpose". The use as an internment center for 32 000 Haitians, 20 000 Cuban boat people and 700 Talibans clearly constitutes a material breach of the lease.

Whereas China could persuade the UK to leave Hong Kong and Portugal to leave Macau, Cuba has no such leverage.

So the illegal occupation of Guantanamo bay continues. But we should not give it our recognition as a legitimate lease -- a "perpetual lease" as the United States claims -- because it was imposed by force.

I gave a lecture on this topic at the university of British Columbia, published in 37 U.B.C. law review 277-341 (2004) - -- Professor Alfred de Zayas, Geneva

Map of Cuba

I made the map larger to make the “Guantanamo Bay” text readable again. If it is not important for that text to be visible in the article before going to the Image page, then the original Image:Cu-map.png should be used instead of the new Image:Cu-map-Guantanamo.png. Rafał Pocztarski 21:37, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Incorrect image

The image on this page of the Soldier with the dog and the prisoner in an orange jumpsuit (media:Guantanamo-dog.jpg) is a duplicate of Media:Iraqis tortured wp-j.jpg which is on the Abu Ghraib prisoner abuse. Is this from from Guantanamo or is it from Abu Ghraib? One or other should be deleted. Jooler 12:53, 11 Jan 2005 (UTC)

This is Abu Ghraib, and I've removed it from the article. See this Gaurdian article. It was first published by the Washington Post in May. Cool Hand Luke 04:14, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)