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Revision as of 11:01, 27 October 2022

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Requested move 16 October 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

It was proposed in this section that Salaam be renamed and moved to Salaam (disambiguation). result: Moved, and Salaam redirected to As-salamu alaykum per consensus below. Thanks and kudos to editors for your input; everyone stay healthy! P.I. Ellsworth , ed.  11:01, 27 October 2022 (UTC) Move logs: source title · target title This is template {{subst:Requested move/end}}

Salaam → Salaam (disambiguation) – This seems like a pretty clear case of WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT. Keeping in mind that The fact that an article has a different title is not a factor in determining whether a topic is primary, "Salaam" primarily refers to the greeting used by Muslims and others, which we discuss at the article As-salamu alaykum. WikiNav shows that page as 3:1 ahead of the next-most-clicked entry, despite the fact that it was not linked as prominently as it should have been until a few days ago. We should move to Salaam (disambiguation) and retarget the redirect to As-salamu alaykum. -- Tamzin (she|they|xe) 05:42, 16 October 2022 (UTC)

• Support per nom. Shwcz (talk) 10:30, 16 October 2022 (UTC)
• Support per nom, sounds sensible to me, though I don't know anything about this subject; I only have this page on my watchlist due to long-term unreverted vandalism. Graham87 15:33, 16 October 2022 (UTC)
• This makes sense in terms of long-term significance, but I don't see a primary topic with respect to usage. Tamzin, the crucial question is not whether this article gets a lot more usage than the next most popular destination, but whether it gets more than all the others combined. Wikinav shows that the dab entry for this article got 164 clicks in September. That's just under 60% of the total clicks recorded in the dataset, but it needs to be considered that links with fewer than 10 monthly hits don't make it into the dataset. The figure of 60% is therefore just the upper bound. A lower bound can be arrived at by comparing those 164 clicks to the total views of the dab page for the same period, which is about 1,500. – Uanfala (talk) 12:27, 17 October 2022 (UTC)

  @Uanfala: The problem with setting that lower bound is that we don't know how many people hit a DAB page and give up. Especially in the DAB's erstwhile, jumbled state, wherein there were 21 tangential links before As-salamu alaykum. Note that the second-most-clicked link in that time was to Salem (name), which was inappropriately piped as Salam; given that that was not the first link on the page, I think it's reasonable to assume that many of those clicks were people expecting an article on either the Arabic word or the greeting derived from it. The #4 link was Salim (name), the first link overall in the cluttered old version, so again I think not very dispositive. -- Tamzin (she|they|xe) 20:31, 17 October 2022 (UTC)

  The organisation of the dab page may be a weak factor here, but I find it extremely implausible to assume that a great proportion of readers would arrive at the dab page, glance at the first couple of entries, not find what they're looking for there, and then simply ignore the rest of the list and just give up. If we want to find out what, if any, such effects there could be, we can just pause the RM and wait until this month's data becomes available in Wikinav (now that the dab is better organised). – Uanfala (talk) 08:42, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose. The greeting As-salamu alaykum and the Arabic word salaam (which means "peace") should not be conflated in this manner. It would be like redirecting the word Morning to Good morning. Rreagan007 (talk) 18:45, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

  Per wikt:salaam, "the Arabic word for peace" is not an established meaning of that word in English, while the word's usage as a synonym for As-salamu alaykum is widespread. -- Tamzin (she|they|xe) 20:09, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

  First off, Wiktionary can't be cited as a reliable source. And secondly, I see nothing in that Wiktionary entry that establishes your conclusions. Rreagan007 (talk) 05:04, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

  If you're concerned about Wiktionary's accuracy in this case, you could always look up the word in other dictionaries. But I can do that for you: Dictionary.com, Collins, Merriam-Webster. All give the same definition Wiktionary gives: A greeting, used primarily by Muslims. A greeting that the English Misplaced Pages discusses at the article As-salamu alaykum: In colloquial speech, often only the first part of the phrase (so: salām, 'peace') is used to greet a person. "Salaam" as a synonym for "peace", in any context other than the "salaam"/As-salamu alaykum greeting, is not a common usage in English. -- Tamzin (she|they|xe) 05:16, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

  All of those dictionary entries say that the word means "peace" and that it is also used as a greeting. But you seem to be trying to make an argument that "Salaam" has entered into general English language usage as a greeting, which I dispute. Rreagan007 (talk) 05:32, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

  Are we reading the same sources??? Those are three sources saying that "salaam" is a greeting in English. Zero of them say that in English it is a noun meaning "peace". -- Tamzin (she|they|xe) 05:36, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

  They all say that the word literally means "peace". And they say that it is used as a greeting in Islamic countries or by Muslims, not that it is used as a greeting in English. "Salaam" has not entered general English-language usage as a standard greeting, such as "good morning" or "hello" or "how do you do" or "howdy". I have lived in an English-speaking country my entire life and never once in over 40 years has anyone ever greeted me by saying "salaam". Rreagan007 (talk) 17:27, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

  I... I'm actually at a loss for words here. -- Tamzin (she|they|xe) 23:16, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

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