Talk:Japanese yen: Difference between revisions

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Revision as of 14:44, 5 November 2022 editJMF (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users56,697 edits →Name in Japanese?: A few points:← Previous edit		Revision as of 15:31, 5 November 2022 edit undoChipmunkdavis (talk \| contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers66,629 edits →Name in Japanese?: The order is specifically different in Japanese usageTag: Reply Next edit →
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	# I have the impression (no more) that ¥ is little used in Japan, that it is more for use with Western alphabets, but I have no solid evidence for that one.		# I have the impression (no more) that ¥ is little used in Japan, that it is more for use with Western alphabets, but I have no solid evidence for that one.
	# It seems reasonable to me to recognise the equal validity of other cultures where we can, without losing sight of the fact that this is en.wikipedia. --] (]) 14:44, 5 November 2022 (UTC)		# It seems reasonable to me to recognise the equal validity of other cultures where we can, without losing sight of the fact that this is en.wikipedia. --] (]) 14:44, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

			:Point 5 is key here. We shouldn't say something is a symbol, which will have a certain connotation to English speakers, when it is a genuine word; nor should words of other cultures not be considered words because they are logographic. Re point 1, that is true that order varies in a global sense, but the order is specifically pertinent here because the Yen symbol is used in Japan in a different position to the word yen (円). 円 is used in normal word order, much as English speakers say "10 dollars", while ¥ is placed where it wouldn't be pronounced. Commons has some examples of both uses: ], ]. It even has a sign which shows how 円 would appear if transliterated into latin characters ]. ] shows both side by side, as well as showing 円 being used within a longer phrase. ] (]) 15:31, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

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What is the meaning of the 'E' after the price in Japan?

What does the E stand for after the price on Japanese items? "¥905E". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:304:6EFC:B8D0:5433:691:B73F:AA35 (talk) 17:26, 31 December 2019 (UTC)

The description of the rise and fall of the value of the yen appears to be backwards

The wording used under the subheading "Japanese government intervention in the currency market" appears to be backwards. If something increases in value, then it would be a lower number in exchange for one U.S. dollar. If it decreases in value, then it would be a higher number in exchange for one U.S. dollar. The wording in this section appears to describe things backwards. It claims that the yen rose in value when it really means that the exchange rate increased, which is the exact opposite. Can someone read through that section and fix it? --Nicholas0 (talk) 01:51, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

Graphs near plaza accord section

The graphs contain no legend of what exactly is plotted on the vertical axis. Due to the current exchange rates, the average reader will probably assume that it's the value of a $ measured in ¥ but that seems to conflict with the text. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.67.227.181 (talk) 10:11, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

Name in Japanese?

According to the infobox, the name of the currency is 日本円 but the lead sentence says yen (Japanese: 円, symbol: ¥; code: JPY; also abbreviated as JP¥)

So which is correct?

Is 円 an abbreviation?
Or is 日本円 the currency and 円 the unit? .
Or is 円 the currency symbol used when writing in Kanji (or do I mean Katakana?) as opposed to ¥ used when writing in Romaji?
Something completely different?

I hope this makes sense! 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 12:58, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

日本 = Japan, 円 = yen. So the currency is Japanese yen/日本円 and the unit is ¥/円. Jpatokal (talk) 07:17, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

Thank you, I have corrected the infobox. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 11:18, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

I am not sure 円 is a "symbol"; it is the word itself, like writing out "dollars". That said it is like the dollar sign in some situations, so this is perhaps an area of linguistic misalignment. CMD (talk) 11:21, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

In this context, currency, it is definitive a symbol if it is used in formats like "円 100.75", "$ 24.50". Does not matter if the character is (also?) used in regular sentence (as with "dollar"). DePiep (talk) 11:27, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

Used as symbol at 1 yen coin. -DePiep (talk) 11:32, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

When written, 円 appears after the number, eg. "100.75 円". This is due to it being an actual Japanese word, and it is used in this fashion on the coins. 円 is distinct from the ¥ symbol, which when used is placed before the number, as in your example, much like the dollar sign is. CMD (talk) 12:30, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

Before or after is irrelevant. In-sentence usage is irrelevant (as already said).

Point is: in "100.75 円" it is used as a symbol. As in: amount=number × symbol; much like quantity amount: like "50 kg"=number × unitsymbol. (Incidentally — distraction ahead ;-) — in English, this can be in a sentence too). DePiep (talk) 12:49, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

That use does not make it a symbol. It's used as number x word, much like writing "one pound" or "one dollar" does not make "pound" or "dollar" a symbol. Unless perhaps you define all words as symbols, which doesn't seem to be the intent of the infobox. CMD (talk) 12:54, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

It does make. Use elsewhere does-not-matter. Your dollar example is A. reverse logic, B. not applicable because "$" ≠ "dollar". No one is proposing or claiming "dollar is a symbol". Noone. Now, it can very well being used elsewhere or otherwise as a word, but that does not change the proof in your own example: "100.75 円". DePiep (talk) 13:04, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

It is, in that example, used as a word. A script being logographic does not mean a standalone word become a symbol. CMD (talk) 13:07, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

No it's not. Neither in 1 yen coin. You still have to prove that is cannot and is not used as a symbol. Instead, you keep entering on the wrong side: "it's a word so in cannot be a symbol is incorrect logic" (??). Yuo are not disproving anything. DePiep (talk) 13:12, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

It is also a word on the 1 yen coin. The writing on the coin is literally just the words "one yen". It is the same as the use of words on American coinage, Australian coinage, New Zealand coinage, British coinage, Russian coinage, Euro coinage, and likely others. CMD (talk) 13:30, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

A few points:

order does not matter: for example the convention in anglophone countries is to write €100, whereas in francophone it is 100 €.
as DePiep says, what matters really is actual usage: 円 is a single character symbol that being used to show that the number 100 is the price. (Yes, I appreciate that the Japanese scripts do not use simple Latin-style alphabets.)
There was a long discussion at template talk:infobox currency into what is the distinctive difference between a currency abbreviation and a currency symbol. This issue is very similar and we could only conclude that evidence of actual usage and (better stil) reliable sources could be the only determinant.
I have the impression (no more) that ¥ is little used in Japan, that it is more for use with Western alphabets, but I have no solid evidence for that one.
It seems reasonable to me to recognise the equal validity of other cultures where we can, without losing sight of the fact that this is en.wikipedia. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 14:44, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

Point 5 is key here. We shouldn't say something is a symbol, which will have a certain connotation to English speakers, when it is a genuine word; nor should words of other cultures not be considered words because they are logographic. Re point 1, that is true that order varies in a global sense, but the order is specifically pertinent here because the Yen symbol is used in Japan in a different position to the word yen (円). 円 is used in normal word order, much as English speakers say "10 dollars", while ¥ is placed where it wouldn't be pronounced. Commons has some examples of both uses: use of ¥, use of 円. It even has a sign which shows how 円 would appear if transliterated into latin characters here. This image shows both side by side, as well as showing 円 being used within a longer phrase. CMD (talk) 15:31, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

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