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Revision as of 21:46, 16 January 2023

Visual arts B‑class

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Visual arts, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of visual arts on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Visual artsWikipedia:WikiProject Visual artsTemplate:WikiProject Visual artsvisual arts B This article has been rated as B-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.

Metropolitan Museum of Art B‑class

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Metropolitan Museum of Art. Please copy assessments of the article from the most major WikiProject template to this one as needed.Metropolitan Museum of ArtWikipedia:GLAM/Metropolitan Museum of ArtTemplate:WikiProject Metropolitan Museum of ArtMetropolitan Museum of Art B This article has been rated as B-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. ??? This article has not yet received a rating on the importance scale.

A fact from Venus and Adonis (Titian) appeared on Misplaced Pages's Main Page in the Did you know column on 19 August 2017 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows: Did you know... that Titian's painting of Venus and Adonis (pictured) exists in "two-dog" and "three-dog" versions? A record of the entry may be seen at Misplaced Pages:Recent additions/2017/August. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Venus and Adonis (Titian).

Individual articles

Anyone wanting to see the individual articles combined here can look at the start of the page history here, when it was a disam page and all were listed. They all now redirect here. Apart from Madrid and Oxford they were very short stubs. They were:

• Venus and Adonis (Titian, Madrid) (1553)
• Venus and Adonis (Titian, London) (1555)
• Venus and Adonis (Titian, Los Angeles) (c. 1555-1560)
• Venus and Adonis (Titian, Oxford) (c. 1560)
• Venus and Adonis (Titian, Rome) (c. 1560)
• Venus and Adonis (Titian, New York) (c. 1560)
• Venus and Adonis (Titian, Washington) (c. 1560)

Johnbod (talk) 02:31, 25 July 2017 (UTC)

External links modified (January 2018)

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Fringe insertion

I deleted this paragraph with the edit summary "irrelevant to air a fringe theory in a section on literature," which has since been reverted with the summary, "take it to talk."

There were print versions of the image, but Shakespeare mentions three times that Adonis wore a "bonnet" or hat,<1> which these do not have,<2> and from the surviving early versions, is only in the Rome, Dulwich and Alnwick ones. Supporters of the Oxfordian theory of Shakespeare authorship argue that the real author of Shakespeare's works, Edward de Vere, 17th Earl of Oxford, saw the Rome version at Titian's studio in Venice on his travels in Italy in 1575–76, and based his poem on it. This is regarded by some of them as a weighty piece of evidence supporting "Oxfordian" authorship.<3>

The references for this are as thus:

1.Magri, 86

2.Magri, 80. One of the Sadelers did a print of a "hat" version in 1610.

3.Magri, 87 and throughout; "Titian’s Painting of “Venus and Adonis” – Reason No. 13 Why Edward de Vere Earl of Oxford was “Shakespeare"

According to WP:FRINGE, If discussed in an article about a mainstream idea, a theory that is not broadly supported by scholarship in its field must not be given undue weight, and reliable sources must be cited that affirm the relationship of the marginal idea to the mainstream idea in a serious and substantial manner....If an article is written about a well-known topic about which many peer-reviewed articles are written, it should not include fringe theories that may seem relevant but are only sourced to obscure texts that lack peer review. Introducing a fringe topic in an article violates WP:ONEWAY, which states that Fringe views, products, or the organizations who promote them, may be mentioned in the text of other articles only if independent reliable sources connect the topics in a serious and prominent way.

The material does not belong in this article on the basis of sourcing alone. The first source, Noemi Magri's Such Fruits Out of Italy, is special issue No. 3 of the Neues Shake-speare Journal, a German fringe publication that promotes the fringe theory that Edward de Vere, the 17th earl of Oxford, was secretly Shakespeare.

The second reference, "Titian’s Painting of “Venus and Adonis” – Reason No. 13 Why Edward de Vere Earl of Oxford was “Shakespeare," is a blog post by Hank Whittemore, an advocate of the same fringe theory. Neither of these sources are peer-reviewed nor are they considered to be reliable sources for this article.

Tom Reedy (talk) 18:08, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

Actually, I just now saw that the Magri refs are from *Magri, Noemi, "Titian's Barberini Painting: the Pictorial Source of Venus and Adonis" in Great Oxford: Essays on the Life and Work of Edward de Vere, 17th Earl of Oxford, 1550–1604, ed. Richard Malim, 79–90, 2004, De Vere Society, google books, which is a reprint of a chapter from her book. Tom Reedy (talk) 18:11, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

The prose takes a clearly very distanced and skeptical stance towards the Oxfordian idea, right at the end of a pretty long article. I see you are going around eliminating all references to Oxfordian stuff, perhaps without looking at the context in the article. The "connection" is pretty clear, & some of the facts can be verified from the illustrations here alone. Johnbod (talk) 01:54, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

What connection, exactly? That fringe theorists spin "evidence" out of history's gaps is not a connection. If every such topic from which they spun their fantasies included such a mention, every article on Misplaced Pages would have it.

> I see you are going around eliminating all references to Oxfordian stuff, perhaps without looking at the context in the article.

I check what links to the Oxfordian page about every year or so, and I scrupulously check the refs and the context. Are you saying that Misplaced Pages policy does not apply to this article? Because unless you can find independent reliable sources connecting the topics in a serious and prominent way, it doesn't belong here. And FYI, there are 222 direct links to the Oxfordian article; I deleted three of them.

Also you should provide a ref or expand on your Salviati collection mention. Tom Reedy (talk) 06:10, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

And just in case you want to read the rebuttal to the Oxfordian nonsense: "Adonis and His Hat." I think you'll be amused. Tom Reedy (talk) 21:46, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

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