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the only neutral language here is "radical fringe". any attempt to describe it as far "something" directly reflects the opinions of the editor. editors on the far left consider them far right. editors on the far right consider them far left. the[REDACTED] article has no place uncritically reflecting the far right categorization of them as far left. ] (talk) 21:13, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

I agree 100%. Phrases like "Far-right" and "far-left" are meaningless, inherently subjective, and definitely don't belong in an encyclopedia. This should be removed. Of course, the justification will be that "reliable sources" have called it far-left, and Misplaced Pages is just acting as a stenographer for these reliable sources. But my response to that is simple: just because a reliable source uses biased, subjective language, in no way implies that we need to parrot it. We don't have a responsibility to repeat verbatim every opinion-based statement a reliable source passes off as fact. What's acceptable to an editor in the newsroom of a "reliable source" is not always acceptable in an encyclopedic context. Misplaced Pages would be much better off if every use of "far-right" and "far-left" were removed. Hope others will discuss the points made here and in the above comment, and hope that this won't be "hatted" because some random guy doesn't like it. Philomathes2357 (talk) 23:25, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

I’m not here to “hat” this, but as someone with a degree in political science I’d think you’d understand that “far right” and “far left” are not meaningless terms. Maybe they should be used more cautiously, but nobody informed about the subject is going to say it’s wrong to label Communists far left or Fascists far right. Dronebogus (talk) 23:50, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

You again. You seem to have turned into my biggest fan on Misplaced Pages. I'm fascinated that there's someone out there with enough free time to insert themselves into every Misplaced Pages post I make. When will you be addressing your repeated assertions that I act in bad faith?

Perhaps the terms aren't completely meaningless, but they certainly are inherently subjective. What is it, exactly, that makes a person or group's rightness or leftness "far"? "Right" and "left" are already quite vague, and their meaning can vary wildly, depending on the domestic political context in which they are used, but they generally regarded as useful terms. "Far" left or "far" right, by contrast, are terms used almost exclusively in the realm of persuasive political writing. Primarily in news media, with the goal of painting a person or group as "fringe" without having to substantively address the person or group's position. In short, someone who is "right-wing" is someone who's generally politically conservative. Someone who's "far right" is someone who people find personally annoying, offensive, or dangerous. I think you would have a hard time finding political scholars who would find these terms encyclopedic, and their use is strongly discouraged in serious work produced within every institution of higher learning with which I'm personally familiar.

And, to address your specific examples, Communism could probably be described as far left in casual conversation without confusion or misunderstanding - but that doesn't make it appropriate encyclopedic wording, since Misplaced Pages is not a casual discussion forum. Fascism is not nearly as clear cut.

I see no reason for the inclusion of this phrase. It is non-neutral and unencyclopedic. Maybe an RFC would be appropriate here? Philomathes2357 (talk) 00:14, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

You have provided no evidence for that and have repeatedly insulted me and wasted the time of numerous other users. To prove I’m not your “fan”, you are muted as of now. The only interaction I hope to be having is reverting any dubious edits you insist on adding to articlespace. Dronebogus (talk) 00:18, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Ah yes, the preferred strategy of everyone who feels that their arguments stand on their own merits: silence dissenting opinions. Would you like to address any of the substance of the above comments? Philomathes2357 (talk) 00:25, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Philomathes2357:, I see you've having issues with our mutual friend. I've watchlisted this article. Would you be willing to watchlist Chaos magic, Genesis P-Orridge and Thee Temple ov Psychick Youth? Seems he's also yammering at WP:ANI. Skyerise (talk) 00:32, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Sure, I'll do that. If you want to discuss this further @Skyerise, you're more than welcome to, but could you go to my talk page or email me at the address on my main page? I don't want this thread, which I hope will continue in a productive direction, to get bogged down with personal drama. Philomathes2357 (talk) 00:37, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages is not about recording the truth, it is a record (a stenograph, if you will) of the state of knowledge as relayed in reliable, independent sources. Those sources — many, many of them — use the phrases far left and far right, albeit with a multitude of meanings. And many use far left with regard to The Grayzone. Erasing these phrases from Misplaced Pages because we think they are imprecise or easy to abuse would completely run counter to the purpose of this project. WhinyTheYounger (WtY)(talk, contribs) 01:46, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

All of you need to stop harassing Dronebogus. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 01:08, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

I can't speak to the dispute between Dronebogus and Skyerise, since I wasn't familiar with it until Skyerise commented here. However, I completely reject the accusation that I've been "harassing" Dronebogus. In fact, the opposite is the case, to such an extent that I've considered requesting a no-fault 2-way interaction ban. If you actually think this is an issue, @ValjeanValjean, please let me know on my talk page.

As for this page, nobody has made a cogent argument in favor of using the terms "far left" or "far right". I've made what I feel is a cogent argument against using the terms, as has another user, so I'm going to remove it. If someone disagrees with this, I'm open-minded on the issue and would welcome a debate here on the talk page. Philomathes2357 (talk) 16:29, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Most of this section is completely off topic, no ones made an argument for anything youre all just yelling at each other Softlemonades (talk) 16:34, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

I felt like my argument was clear: "far left" and "far right" are terms only used in persuasive political writing, and have no business being in an encyclopedia. No political scholar I have ever read, spoken with, or worked with uses these terms, unless they're writing about their own opinions in an explicitly persuasive context. Even if some source that other editors have labeled as "reliable" used this descriptor, doesn't mean the same language should or must be included here. Although we do have a commitment to source our encyclopedic claims using due weight from reliable sources, we don't have a commitment to include unencyclopedic descriptors, even if someone at a RS used the descriptor to express their opinion and passed it off as fact-based journalism. News outlets don't have the same commitment to NPOV that Misplaced Pages has in its policy, and using sensational, inherently subjective, and persuasion-based language here is a clear violation of NPOV imo. Is my position clear? If so, with which part of it do you take issue? Philomathes2357 (talk) 17:25, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Far left is in over 7000 articles, and has its own article. There are lots of sources. Editors experience isnt something we can cite. Thats basic policy Softlemonades (talk) 17:31, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

I'm not proposing that we cite the personal experience of any editor in the article. I'm stating that "far left", whether it's in 7, 70, 7,000, or 700,000 articles, is self-evidently a statement of opinion, not fact. RS can be repeated verbatim in regards to facts, but opinions and explicitly persuasive language don't belong on Misplaced Pages. There's no fact-based metric for what makes the Grayzone's leftness "far" - it's just a term of derision used to insult and dismiss. My argument is that Misplaced Pages's commitment to NPOV does not permit us to cite opinions as facts, even if those opinions are published in an RS - and "far left" is inherently an opinionated descriptor, not a statement of fact.

Perhaps an RFC would be appropriate here if we aren't able to reach a consensus. Philomathes2357 (talk) 17:37, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

See MOS:FIRST, which describes the lead sentence. Usually it is nationality+neutral description, WP:FIRST says "Try to not overload the first sentence by describing everything notable about the subject. Instead use the first sentence to introduce the topic, and then spread the relevant information out over the entire lead. " Skyerise (talk) 17:39, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Far-left and far-right websites do exist. Period. RS describe Grayzone that way, so stop the whitewashing and deletion of well-sourced content without a solid consensus.

You aren't even moving this to the body, so your deletions are wholesale inappropriate. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 17:42, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

With all due respect @Valjean, you can assert that as if it is a fact, but what you're expressing isn't factual information, it's your personal opinion. Certainly we can agree that there are websites that are left-leaning and right-leaning. We might be able to neutrally assert that some of these websites are on the "fringes" of American political discourse, although even using "fringe" as a factual descriptor is getting into sketchy territory, IMO, although I'm comfortable leaving that be for now. But "far-left" is obviously not a neutral way to describe a person or group. Again - these terms (far left, far right) are not neutral statements of fact, they are statements of opinion that writers use in a persuasive political context to express dislike or disdain for a particular individual or group.

I'd be open to removing "far-left" as a factual descriptor in the opening sentence, while including in the body something to the effect of "multiple news outlets have described the Grayzone as "far-left", citing the same sources that are currently linked in the opening sentence. Does that sound reasonable to you? We can include the content, but I cannot agree with passing off persuasive speech as fact. Philomathes2357 (talk) 17:55, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Why don't you just attribute it? That, not deletion, is one way to follow WP:Preserve. OTOH, attribution can raise doubts that the opinion is not factual. In this case we have opinion=fact in spades. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 18:22, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

I would very much like to raise doubts that the opinion is not factual, because in my view, it clearly is not. You've asserted multiple times now, without supporting argument or evidence, that "far left" is a statement of fact. I'm open to having my mind changed here, but I just don't see where you're coming from on that, at all. Can you expand upon your assertion that "far-left" is a case of opinion=fact? Philomathes2357 (talk) 18:25, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Both left- and right-wing sources move into the "far" designation when their opinions move into misleading reporting, conspiracy theories, and sympathetic coverage of authoritarian regimes. This happens to extremists on both sides, and they should be described as "far-whatever" "extremists". They have moved too far to the right or left for their views to be mere opinions for legitimate discussion. Their opinions are so extreme they are rebuked by fact-checkers because they are completely counterfactual lies. That's the bed in which The Grayzone lies. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 18:40, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Hmm. Interesting. I know you are presenting this argument in good faith, and I appreciate you actually presenting an argument, period, but I strongly disagree. Some IRL obligations demand my attention for the remainder of the afternoon, but I think the best way forward here is for me to open an RFC later this evening. Philomathes2357 (talk) 18:43, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Hey @Valjean, before I create an RFC this evening, I wanted to clarify something: is the opinion you expressed in your last comment here a reflection of Misplaced Pages policy? Is there a policy on Misplaced Pages specifically about the descriptors "far" left and "far" right? Or is your comment an expression of your personal opinion about how these descriptors should be handled? Philomathes2357 (talk) 19:39, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

That's a fair question for a talk page discussion where OR and opinions are acceptable factors in our decision making processes and discussions, but not editing. I'd say it's a mixture of factors that may not be expressed in any single policy as I have expressed it. I'm just one editor here.

My comments are based on my understanding of how we usually apply logic here. I've been here since 2003 and helped write our most important policies, with my fingerprints still there. We know there is a Left–right political spectrum, and we're talking about recognizing and accurately labeling the extremes, in this case the extreme left. Logic and RS demand we not treat the extremes as if there are just left or right. No, they are beyond that, therefore far (or synonyms) must be used.

What makes this case interesting is that there are far more extreme right-wing sources than extreme left-wing, and, as a Social Democrat (thus somewhat left-wing), I don't think we should treat extreme left-wing sources any less realistically than we do extreme right-wing ones. Whitewashing is not allowed. That's not what "neutral" in NPOV means. Both should be described as RS describe them using very non-neutral terminology. RS don't treat them gently, so we shouldn't either. NPOV justifies descriptions like extreme left-wing because RS say that. We must not neuter what they say. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 21:21, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for your comment. I don't foresee that we'll be able to come to an agreement here, so I will make an RFC, as mentioned, as soon as I'm able, because I've realized RFCs are a great way to overcome a strong but respectful difference of opinion such as this. I wanted to "steel man" rather than "straw man" your position, and I think you've made your position clear enough for me to be able to do that. In the RFC thread, I plan to quote, word-for-word and line-by-line, specific NPOV policy and demonstrate why I think my position is reflected in those policies more than yours. You're obviously an intelligent and articulate person, so I'm confident that you'll be able to do the same - that is, if you actually care enough about this topic to participate, which I sincerely hope you will. Cheers. Philomathes2357 (talk) 21:33, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

I would have to agree with the above editors. If there were only 2 or 3 sources that described The Grayzone as far-left, then attributing those sources might be the right choice. However, the far left descriptor contains about a dozen citations and I'm confident a dozen more could be found. As such, we need to reflect those sources. Dr. Swag Lord (talk) 22:01, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Hey Swag Lord, thanks for chiming in. Respectfully, I don't see how the number of different sources that have expressed an opinion changes the opinion from an opinion to a fact. That sounds like a bandwagon fallacy to me. I understand that we have a responsibility to reflect the weight of facts published in reliable sources. However, we do not have a responsibility to repeat *opinions* published in RS and pass them off as if they are facts, especially when those opinions are highly politically charged and controversial. "Left" or "right", though still relative and open to some level of debate, could reasonably be used as factual descriptors. I could even see a reasonable argument for words like "fringe" being used as factual descriptors. "Far" left or "far" right are, to me, clear examples of opinionated, persuasive writing of the type that doesn't belong here, even if some guys and gals at some RS papers erroneously believe that their opinions are facts and publish them as such. Lots more I could say here about NPOV policy and the inherent tensions between NPOV and giving due weight to RS, but I will not ramble on any further and will save that for an RFC, which I will hopefully have time to create tomorrow when I'm at the airport. Philomathes2357 (talk) 22:24, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

You are essentially arguing that there is no such thing as "far" right or left in politics, or, if they exist, they cannot be described using those terms. That's a rather mind blowing disintegration of logical thinking and denial of the normal way language functions. I don't know how we can deal with that in a constructive way beyond simply rejecting it as "non-reasoning". -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 22:40, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

I'll take that in good faith, Valjean. I'm having an equally hard time wrapping my mind around your argument that "far left" can be uttered as a statement of fact, rather than an opinion. I'd even describe your argument as "mind-blowing" and "non-reasoning". So I think there's a big communication gap here. If this were a face-to-face conversation rather than an exchange of text, I don't think we'd be at such an impasse, but alas, we have to work with what we've got.

Here's an analogy to illustrate my point: I feel the same way about "far" right and "far" left as I do about, say, the word "ugly" as a descriptor of people. Certainly, we'd both agree that ugly people do exist. We could probably identify certain people who are exceptionally physically unattractive by the standards of our society and culture, and we might call them ugly. We could even come to a consensus as a group that "person X is ugly". Someone who works for an RS could even write an article that states as fact "person X is ugly". But it would *still* not be a fact that person X is ugly. It would be a widely-held popular opinion, and it wouldn't be appropriate to include in that person's biography "they are ugly", even if some folks at an RS expressed that opinion in a journalistic piece. Maybe we could say "many news outlets, such as X, Y, and Z, have described this person as ugly", but no more.

So, even though it is a fact that ugly people exist, and people can be described using that term, they cannot *factually* be described with that term: it can never be a fact that "person X is ugly", it is always an opinion. In the same vein, we might be able to agree that extremes exist on the political left and the political right, and we could probably use "far-right" or "far-left" in a conversation about politics over a cup of coffee, but it cannot be an encyclopedic fact that "person X is far-left" or "news outlet Y is far-right" - that's inherently a statement of opinion, and, frankly, given the extremely derisive and politically-charged nature of these descriptors, I'd support a lead that says "Person X is ugly" before I'd support a lead that says "Person X is far-right". Even if you still disagree, does that analogy shed any light on my reasoning here, or do I still sound crazy to you, Valjean?

Dronebogus: I've asked you nicely to stop stalking my edit history and hatting/reverting everything I do. At this point, I feel like you are personally targeting me on a daily basis, and it's making me uncomfortable. I don't understand why nobody has asked you to stop, because every time I have assumed bad faith on the part of another editor, I have - rightly - been chastised and told, not asked, to stop immediately, or else there were going to be consequences. If you don't like what I have to say, you can jump into the conversation and leave a good-faith comment and push back on me, like Valjean and Swag Lord have been doing. Or you could go somewhere else and ignore me, as everyone else is free to do. Admins have expressed disagreement with you and even reverted your hatting, but you simply re-reverted and overrode the admin. If you continue, I'll have to take this to arbitration and request an interaction ban. Philomathes2357 (talk) 23:21, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

You keep saying the same things over and over, people refute you, you keep doing it— that’s the definition of WP:BLUDGEON. Dronebogus (talk) 01:40, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

I think your analogy compares apples to oranges. Beauty is a subjective thing, yet it is a judgement call genetically programmed into babies. Then add cultural expectations and it gets more complicated, yet in a beauty contest, most people will agree that the winning girl on the extreme end of the beauty scale really is a beauty, and that opinion is also a fact confirmed by the universal opinion of lots of people, especially experts. (There will still be subjective differences of opinion about which of the many beautiful girls was really the most beautiful.) 😅

With the political scale, or rather with extremism in general, we have some objective criteria to use. Normal people on the left and right, who are still fairly close to center, will have differing opinions about what is the best policy and best way to effect change, but they still agree about provable facts. They are still tethered to reality and are not "far" from it. They can talk together and generally enjoy fine social relationships.

Extremists go too far. They lose touch with reality and provable facts. They believe misleading information, lies, and conspiracy theories. They are "far" out there. Unlike beauty and ugliness, this involves provable facts, things that can be fact-checked. We're beyond mere opinion. Extremists believe Trump won the election, that vaccines are very dangerous, that Seth Rich and Ukraine (not Russia, Trump, and Wikileaks) interfered in and tried to steal the 2016 election, that Biden and the British royals are lizards, and that Democrats abduct babies to eat after using them for pedophilic purposes.

So extreme distance and separation from objective facts is my objective and measurable way of defining the difference between normal left and right and "far" left and right. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 00:04, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

I think it is clear that nobody here supports Philomathes2357's proposal that we need to remove "left" and "right" descriptors from all Misplaced Pages articles, and that we should start here. If anybody else takes that position, we can continue the conversation; otherwise let's move on. BobFromBrockley (talk) 12:44, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

Can I re-collapse this now? It’s been talked to death and as you stated there is a strong consensus that this is not supported by anyone except the proposer. Dronebogus (talk) 00:43, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

When was this un-collapsed? — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 03:10, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

Given the RfC being opened, I think it's probably about time to close this section. — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 07:36, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

Please do not, I have spent all day traveling across the US, and while I don't plan on continuing the conversation in this thread, I do plan on opening an RFC on the issue, and I think it's of value for all those who participate that the above conversation be clearly visible. There's no reason to hat it at this time. If the RFC concludes in opposition to all of my proposals, I'd support collapsing this thread and only leaving the RFC.

@Bobfrombrockley I have never, ever claimed that "left" and "right" should be removed from Misplaced Pages. In fact, I wrote above:

"certainly we can agree that there are websites that are left-leaning and right-leaning."

""Left" or "right", though still relative and open to some level of debate, could reasonably be used as factual descriptors."

"I could even see a reasonable argument for words like "fringe" being used as factual descriptors."

I only argued against the use of "far" left and "far" right. How could you have truly read this and interpreted it as me arguing against the phrases "left" and "right"?

I feel like this is a recurring issue in my Misplaced Pages interactions. Full disclosure, I'm autistic, and sometimes I find it hard to get my point across in way that accurately reflects it in my mind. So I write a lot. Too many words, sometimes. I know this, and I'm working on it. So, people, out of a lack of interest in the subject matter or for other reasons, simply do not read what I write, and they clearly don't spend even a moment thinking about it, much less "steel manning" it. @Bobfrombrockley, I am not accusing you of acting in bad faith in any way, but to be very blunt, your summary of my proposal is so silly and absurd that it's clear that you did not actually read what I wrote, or, if you did, you skimmed it momentarily and didn't give it any serious thought at all. And you're not alone, almost every time someone on Misplaced Pages characterizes what I'm expressing about something, it's so ludicrously straw manned, twisted, or detrimentally oversimplified that, honestly, it makes me very sad and makes me feel like I'm talking to a brick wall, rather than other humans. If you don't give enough of a shit to actually read what I say and at least try to give it a serious thought, why bother commenting at all? With that, I don't think there's anything else to say on this thread. RFC coming tomorrow, if you all insist that this thread is such a grave and serious problem that it needs to be hatted immediately, go for it I guess, I'll just mention it in the RFC. Philomathes2357 (talk) 03:22, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

Philomathes2357 Apologies for my perhaps flippant summary of your comments, which you say came across as silly and absurd. I should have been more careful in my summary. I read and have some sympathy for your position, although it is hard to digest such a large quantity of text on a talk page. I don't understand why "far left" is any more subjective than "left", but the main point for me is that if we followed your argument, it's an issue for the whole of the WP project, where such terms are consistently used, rather than this particular article where we are simply following RSs as per WP policy, and so your long interventions are really not a positive contribution to editing this particular page. I appreciate your passion and commitment, but would urge you to step back a little at this point. BobFromBrockley (talk) 14:08, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

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• Politics, government, and law

First, we need to address the basic terms "left" and "right". Readers may think this is off topic, but it is important. "Left" and "right" are terms that most people agree can be used as factual descriptors of political ideas, rather than merely opinions. I agree with this, too. However, there is subtlety that adds an inherent layer of subjectivity to the terms - the idea of a political "right" and "left" are very new abstract Western creations. They were created at earliest in the late 18th century during the French Revolution, and they were originally a physical description of where the supporters of the King sat (on the right) and where the supporters of the Revolution sat (on the left). The terms were clear, factual, objective descriptions of where people "sat" on a specific issue. Clearly, when we describe the Grayzone as "left" or Fox News as "right", we don't mean that the Grayzone supports the ideals of the French Revolution, or that Fox News contributors are fans of Louis XVI, and we're also not describing the physical space occupied by Max Blumenthal or Tucker Carlson. So the terms have been lifted from their original context and are now abstract concepts used, not to measure political ideas scientifically or objectively, but to compare political opinions to one another within a given context.

There is no "left" without a "right". Hypothetically, if 100% of people in society suddenly abandoned all of their right-wing ideas and subscribed without exception to some interpretation of left-wing ideas, it would be inaccurate to say that "everyone in our society is left-wing". Instead, there would cease to be a coherent definition of left-wing, or rather, the colloquial definitions of "left" and "right" would completely fall apart and would be rebuilt around a totally different set of political ideological differences within society. Society might still use the terms "left" and "right" out of convenience, but their meaning would have seismically shifted, such that some of what was once considered "left" would now be considered "right".

One also runs into serious difficulties taking any objective definition of left and right and applying it outside the context of one single country. In the USA, the "left" is generally synonymous with the Democratic party, and the "right" with the Republican party. However, the Democratic party, were its platform and principles to be applied to a political party in Scandinavia, could reasonably be considered a "center-right" party, because of, for example, its widespread lack of interest in universal healthcare or tuition-free public universities or its unambitious policies on government-subsidized childcare and parental leave. Many of the Republican party platform and positions, in some countries vastly different to the USA, would undoubtedly be considered "left-wing", such as its permissive stance on legal homosexual marriage or its grounding in constitutional republicanism.

So, I've established the context that, while I think we can all agree that the terms "left" and "right" can be appropriate encyclopedic descriptors, they are NOT universal factual descriptors, like "the capital of France is Paris", and they contain within them inherent relativity and subjectivity which is dependent on cultural context. Now for the terms "far" left and "far" right.

I argue that "far" left and "far" right are statements of opinion, not fact. They are not applied using any agreed-upon definition. What, exactly, about a person or group's "rightness" or "leftness" makes it "far"? Far from what? Far from the opinions of the person expressing the "far" judgement? Far from the "center left" or "center right"? Whose center-left? As covered in the above paragraphs, those terms also don't have any real objective grounding, especially not in an international context, like the one in which the Grayzone writes. What is considered "far-left" in the United States could be considered "center-right" in a Scandinavian country, what's "right" in the United States could be "far-left" in Thailand, and, as previously noted, in many countries, the left/right dichotomy simply cannot be meaningfully applied.

It's especially noteworthy that, not only are these terms (far left, far right) inherently subjective, they are exclusively used in a disparaging fashion. Nobody, or almost nobody, would describe themselves or any person or opinion with which they sympathize as "far" left or "far" right. The word "far" is always added before the words "left" and "right" to insert an explicitly negative connotation. We can see this exemplified in the sources cited in the opening sentence of the Grayzone article, a majority of which cast the subject matter in a negative light, which implies a desire to persuade the reader that the subject of the article should be viewed in a negative light. Essentially, when someone is described as "left", the tone is one of description. When someone is described as "far-left", the tone is one of dismissal and disparagement, based on the opinion of the individual using the label.

Even if someone in this RFC were to complete the monumental, historic political-theoretical task of creating universal, objective, factual descriptions of "leftness" "rightness", and "farness", such that someone could be described in an article as "far-left", not as an opinion nested within the worldview of the article's author, but as an objective factual descriptor (like "the Bible is a book"), I still think "far left" and "far right" should be treated as statements of opinion on Misplaced Pages, as we can be certain that a definition such as this was not consulted by the authors of any of the articles cited: the authors instead consulted their own opinion and worldview.

So, "far left" and "far right" are opinions, not facts. Now, on to the next aspect of my argument: the word-for-word text of NPOV. It's worth reading as much of NPOV as you can, carefully, but I have selected direct quotes from it below:

NPOV states clearly "Misplaced Pages aims to describe disputes, but not engage in them."

"Avoid stating opinions as facts. Usually, articles will contain information about the significant opinions that have been expressed about their subjects. However, these opinions should not be stated in Misplaced Pages's voice. Rather, they should be attributed in the text to particular sources, or where justified, described as widespread views, etc. For example, an article should not state that "genocide is an evil action", but it may state that "genocide has been described by John X as the epitome of human evil." - NPOV policy

"Prefer nonjudgmental language. A neutral point of view neither sympathizes with nor disparages its subject (or what reliable sources say about the subject), although this must sometimes be balanced against clarity. Present opinions and conflicting findings in a disinterested tone. Do not editorialize. When editorial bias towards one particular point of view can be detected the article needs to be fixed." - NPOV policy

note: using the descriptor "far-left" in Wikivoice disparages the subject, since this term is used with an exclusively negative connotation. Repeating the opinion expressed in RS as fact, as the opening sentence of the Grayzone article does, also implies sympathy with what reliable sources say about the subject.

"An important note on using the term "fundamentalism": In studies of religion, this word has a very specific meaning. Misplaced Pages articles about religion should use this word only in its technical sense, not "strongly-held belief", "opposition to science", or "religious conservatism", as it is often used in the popular press." - NPOV policy

From this policy on the term "fundamentalism" we can induce the following: the fact a word is used in a certain way in the popular press does not mean we should use the word the same way on Misplaced Pages, when the popular press uses the word with colloquial intent, not technical intent. Since there is no coherent technical definition of "far left", we can assume that it is meant in a colloquial context, and should be skeptical at best of its use.

"Even where a topic is presented in terms of facts rather than opinions, inappropriate tones can be introduced through how facts are selected, presented, or organized. Neutral articles are written with a tone that provides an unbiased, accurate, and proportionate representation of all positions included in the article...Try not to quote directly...instead, summarize and present the arguments in an impartial tone." - NPOV policy

Finally, I would direct my fellow editors to the NPOV section on Anglo-American bias. I also argue that assuming that terms like "far left" and "far right" also violate NPOV by introducing Anglo-American bias, because of the inherent subjectivity and context-dependence of any definition of "left" or "right". I discuss the explicitly Western origins of the abstract concepts of a "political right" and "political left" above. If your definitions of left and right are themselves nested within your own cultural framework of understanding, how could you possible hope to describe, as "fact", the Grayzone's writings and opinions on issues in Syria, Venezuela, China, the Balkans and elsewhere using a term like "far left", which relies upon and is contextualized by your definition of "left"?