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:I do object to the inclusion of this though I definitely agree a debate on it first is called for. While sources definitively establish that Patrick believed Ireland lay at the end of the world, this wasn’t a position unique to him but was a widely accepted fact based off geography. Though it would certainly be noteworthy if Patrick also thought converting the gaels would bring about the end days, this is not substantiated by sources but purely the fringe position of an isolated few modern scholars. Whether it be true or not, I do not think we should include it under the present circumstances. ] (]) 10:52, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
:I do object to the inclusion of this though I definitely agree a debate on it first is called for. While sources definitively establish that Patrick believed Ireland lay at the end of the world, this wasn’t a position unique to him but was a widely accepted fact based off geography. Though it would certainly be noteworthy if Patrick also thought converting the gaels would bring about the end days, this is not substantiated by sources but purely the fringe position of an isolated few modern scholars. Whether it be true or not, I do not think we should include it under the present circumstances. ] (]) 10:52, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
::Hi User:OgamD218. I see that you or someone e removed it, no issues there as there hasn't yet been a consensus on the topic yet.
::Hi ]. I see that you or someone e removed it, no issues there as there hasn't yet been a consensus on the topic yet.
::When you say that it's a fringe position do you mean that there are sources refuting it or just that it only appears a few places in the literature? I don't think Johnston herself is fringe in any way but certainly some of her theories/opinions could be.
::When you say that it's a fringe position do you mean that there are sources refuting it or just that it only appears a few places in the literature? I don't think Johnston herself is fringe in any way but certainly some of her theories/opinions could be.
::When I said "debate" in the post above I was actually referring to putting sources supporting both sides in the article for balance. I also deliberately put it in the "Modern Theories" section because that looks like the place for novel ideas about Patrick that haven't yet gained universal support. ] (]) 03:29, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
::When I said "debate" in the post above I was actually referring to putting sources supporting both sides in the article for balance. I also deliberately put it in the "Modern Theories" section because that looks like the place for novel ideas about Patrick that haven't yet gained universal support. ] (]) 03:29, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
Revision as of 03:42, 7 March 2023
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Saint Patrick was one of the Philosophy and religion good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Harrison, Stephen (16 March 2018). "The Misplaced Pages Page for St. Patrick Is Surprisingly Good: Here's why". Slate. As Adrianne LaFrance noted in the Atlantic, there is no self-evident unifying theory about why certain Misplaced Pages pages are higher quality than others. But with its combination of primary sources, motivated contributors, and shared vision, St. Patrick's entry could be hinting at the magic formula.
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St. Patrick's Birthplace, Place of Burial and Shrines
There is absolutely no definitive, provable birthplace or place of burial for Patrick. Surely it makes sense to use the term "possibly" along with suggestions of various, debated places of origin? E.g. "Possibly Roman Britain", "Possibly Roman France". On the subject of major shrines, surely major Irish shrines should be listed? (Croagh Patrick, for example?) Thanks.
Pronunciation of the name Pádraig in modern Irish
I know this is a minor issue, but I just wanted to point out that, in modern Irish, the pronunciation of the name Pádraig does not have a /dˠ/. The usual IPA transcription for <á> is /ɑː/ on Misplaced Pages pages, although it does not represent Ulster Irish's /æː/. So, a transcription that would be correct and accepted is either /ˈpˠɑːɾˠɪc/ or /ˈpˠɑːɾˠɪɟ/.
Patrick and the Second Coming
Professor Elva Johnston writes, "The idea that Ireland is one of the last lands, at the very gates of the known and knowable world, underlies the writings of St Patrick in the fifth century. It has been pointed out that Patrick thought Ireland lay at the edge of the earth.49 He believed that his actions would usher in the Last Days; the Gospel had been preached throughout the world and the stage was set for the second coming of Christ."
I think this is a noteworthy part of Patrick's worldview and should be included in the article. Is this a common view in the literature? Even if it's contested it would still be useful to have the debate put in somewhere. ComradeKublai (talk) 03:18, 6 October 2022 (UTC) ComradeKublai (talk) 03:18, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
I do object to the inclusion of this though I definitely agree a debate on it first is called for. While sources definitively establish that Patrick believed Ireland lay at the end of the world, this wasn’t a position unique to him but was a widely accepted fact based off geography. Though it would certainly be noteworthy if Patrick also thought converting the gaels would bring about the end days, this is not substantiated by sources but purely the fringe position of an isolated few modern scholars. Whether it be true or not, I do not think we should include it under the present circumstances. OgamD218 (talk) 10:52, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
Hi User:OgamD218. I see that you or someone e removed it, no issues there as there hasn't yet been a consensus on the topic yet.
When you say that it's a fringe position do you mean that there are sources refuting it or just that it only appears a few places in the literature? I don't think Johnston herself is fringe in any way but certainly some of her theories/opinions could be.
When I said "debate" in the post above I was actually referring to putting sources supporting both sides in the article for balance. I also deliberately put it in the "Modern Theories" section because that looks like the place for novel ideas about Patrick that haven't yet gained universal support. ComradeKublai (talk) 03:29, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
Proponents of a 460s obit
Dumville wrote a book on Patrick dying in 493 in 1993. It was his original thesis, so I very much doubt he changed his mind in one year. Tallhwch (talk) 23:27, 14 February 2023 (UTC)
Johnston, Elva (2013). Literacy and Identity in Early Medieval Ireland. The Boydell Press, Woodbridge. p. 35.
